Understanding BPD Affection

[DrA]

My BPDwife is pretty much non-affectionate (verbally or physically) for 99% of most days. I have tried to be nice to get her to be more affectionate, I have tried mean (dumb, I know), I have tried to be loud, I have tried to be quiet, I have tried to tell her how important it is to me.  In short, I have tried everything.  Early on in our marriage, we read the book the Love Languages. 

If you are not familiar with it, it basically says people show love in 5 ways: Through acts of service (chores or work), Gifts (buy or make things for people), Touch (Hugs and kisses), words of affirmation (complements) and Time (spending time with each other). 

When we tested ourselves, I was definitely touch and words and she was definitely service and gifts.  Once I found this out, I feel like I set down the path to serve the heck out of her!  We never have money, so gifts doesn't really happen much.  But I feel like she never really went down the path to become more touch and words.  When I ask her about it, she gets defensive and says she has become waaaay more touch and words, and she points out that my service (2 jobs, dishes, helping kids with baths, folding laundry, cleaning house on Saturday, mowing the lawn etc.) doesn't really count because it is all necessary stuff that I am doing.  Like, "you have to work 2 jobs to pay the bills, you have to mow the lawn, dishes have to be cleaned," etc.

So my question is this.  A) Do other couples figure out their love languages and then really make some changes to fit their partner (Like I feel like I have), or is that a pipe dream and especially with a BPDw?  Is she incapable of changing that part of her because of the BPDw?  Is she incapable of showing that kind of love (touch and words) because that is too intimate for a BPD?  Is she incapable of knowing that she really hasn't changed much?  Is she incapable of recognizing my efforts to serve her all the time because of the BPDw?  Or does this have nothing to do with the BPD?   

I thought most BPD spouses fluctuated between non-affectionate when mad and hyper affectionate when fearful of losing someone.  My wife hardly if ever fluctuates.  Mostly she is just not very affectionate.     

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[Tomzxz]

This sounds similar to my experience and like me, you are expected to make most of the adjustments and adapt to her love language level.  You already know your a care taker and eventually you are going to get resentful over the distribution of chores and one way affection. Keep in mind, she probably thinks she is pulling her weight with chores so it is going to be a touchy subject.  As for affection, my ex became resentful of my desire for affection when I just wanted to keep the old flame alive.  She was very affectionate in the early stage of the relationship but then informed me that sex and affection were never really important in her life but she told me this AFTER things got serious and a commitment was made. Where your situation differs is that you have children so walking is not a desirable option for you.  You can't expect your SO to make you happy but only to share your happiness.  It's sad to be in a non reciprocal relationship but it is what it is.  I got stuck in the caretaker/resentment mode and like you I didn't have much money to find external validation through hobbies but don't make the same mistake I did by not doing anything, you must try very hard to find something to do outside of the house.  I recommend that you take an inventory of your life and what you can do to make yourself happy independently of your SO.   

Sorry your going through this, It's not very satisfying to live this way, sometimes we need to adjust our expectations. Sometimes we need to take a look at the overall picture to see what you are in fact getting out of a relationship. Weigh the good and the bad and take care of yourself first.

[vortex of confusion]

I don't know why but your post gave me a good chuckle. I think it is because I feel like I have been beat over the head with the whole "Love Languages" stuff. We have taken the tests. We have talked about it. Yet, my husband still doesn't seem to get it.

My languages are acts of service, quality time, and touch.

I think his are words of affirmation and something else. I have put it out of my head because I was already doing all of the things that showed him I loved him. When we took the tests, I remember thinking: "I already do this, this, and this. I don't feel like I need to change much. I need to keep doing what I am doing."

He hasn't really changed anything. I would jump for joy if I could rely on my husband to help with the kids or mow the lawn. Personally, I see the things that you describe as acts of service. It sounds like you are being reliable and dependable to help take some of the pressure off of your wife. For me, that is a huge act of service. I don't think my husband is capable of carrying through with anything like paying attention to my love language. That would require him to NOT be so self centered.

[Wrongturn1]

DrA:  I believe the Love Languages book is a great book and very helpful... .for relationships where neither partner has BPD.  

The premise of that book seems to be that the whole dynamic of a relationship can drastically change when one (or both) partner starts speaking the other person's love language.  When BPD is involved, however, the disorder tends to drive the dynamic of the relationship, such that love language can make marginal improvements but no radical transformation is possible.  

So while you could expect a mentally healthy wife to respond to you with consistent affection once she understands that is your love language, you cannot expect the same thing from a wife afflicted with BPD.

[EaglesJuju]

My bf is reliant on touch. His need for touch has been pretty consistent throughout our relationship. The need for touch does become exacerbated when his abandonment fears are being triggered. Sometimes the need for touch can be excessive. Although I do like touch myself, I have learned to be more affectionate with him.

We both like compliments and he understands that I can be excessive for the need with compliments. He understand my need and gives more when I need it.

This aspect of our relationship is reciprocated equally. We mesh really well in this department.

[Hmcbart]

My wife is joke your DrA. We went to MC last year and did the whole love language thing. It seems like it was the basis of me doing everything around the house along with being the only income earner. I'm also a caretaker and when told this is what she needed to be more affectionate and even sexual I jumped at the chance to change myself.

It turned into yet another hurdle jump and then receive nothing for my efforts. When I brought this up after 8 months of me doing everything she just said that she only thought that's what was bothering her and it's not important to her anymore. Now I'm stuck doing everything that needs to be done around the house.

When I brought up the lack of affection she said that she gives me a kiss when I get home from work (on the cheek mostly). She said her idea of making me feel wanted and needed by her was wanting me to take out the trash and needing me to get the oil changed in the car. I printed out several things I found in the Internet for ideas a wife can do to show their husband affection (none were sexual), she got laughed at me and told me she wasn't going to do any of them.

So like other posts have said, love languages are for 2 normal people. They do not apply and probably never will in our situations. The BPD just can't seem to understand the concept of affection. The times she tried after I complained were disingenuous and felt faked. As I told her, if I have to ask my wife to show me affection then it's not going to ever feel real or genuine.

[DrA]

Hmcbart,

My wife does a pretty fantastic job keeping the house spotless.  In other post I have spoken about her possible comorbidity with BPD and obsessive compulsive personality disorder (not plain old ocd).  So it is not that she is not doing enough service.  She totally is a service person and goes and goes and goes with service (usually to our family's displeasure -again ocp disorder).  I know that about her, and so I have tried to really up my game with the service stuff.  Unfortunately, for her, she just never feels like the things I do count.  I tried to mention that maybe I should quit my second job since it didn't count which she countered with the perfectly rational, "You can't.  We need the money."  So I am stuck in that I feel like I am working really hard professionally with two jobs (I only think one is necessary if we could manage money better, she disagrees), family wise with dishes (they are endless with 6 kids) folding the laundry when it comes up and I am at home, brushing kids teeth each night, etc.  Yet, she really only allows affection at night after the lights go out for about 10 minutes.  While the kids are awake, she actively shuns affection from me.  Like she gets annoyed if I try to hug her during the day quite often.  And her initiating affection during the day is pretty unheard of even though I have expressed repeatedly (mostly respectfully and nicely) how much I would like that. 

I almost think service people are at an advantage and they don't know it.  I literally have to serve my wife and family all day everyday in order to make it in the world.  My wife definitely does not need to hug and kiss and compliment me all day everyday to make it in the world. Its a service world, but a very touch and words world that is portrayed in Hollywood.  Which my wife says is only that way because it is showing the beginning of the relationship.  Real relationships don't have or need all of that romance/affection.  Again, it is me being too sensitive.       

[cloudten]

I love this topic- because I have been a very long time lover of the love languages.

I am a primary touch person with words and quality time tied for second.

Maybe I am lucky- maybe it is temporary- but my dBPDbf is typically very touchy. Although in the beginning he really wasn't, but he has come around. He and I have talked at length about how he feels love. I always take a step back with people... .all people that matter to me... .and look at how they express love.  My daughter is combo touch and words. My former mother in law is gifts. My mom is probably service. My dad is touch. etc.  How people SHOW love is most likely how they FEEL love.

I agree that selfish service people get the good end of the deal.

As a woman, a mom, and a non... .I wonder if you need to think more outside of the box.  I think you need to think of service as something OUTSIDE of the "norm", outside of the regular chores... .something that serves her and eases her burden... .does this make sense?  What if you offered to take all 6 children out for the day... .and give her time and space to do something that she wished to do (although that may trigger abandonment).  Or what if you turn down her bed at night. or maybe a backrub. give her the day off from the kids and schedule her a manicure... .they can be inexpensive.  i don't know- i am starting to draw a blank... .but i would start out trying to think outside of the normal household stuff. the languages book may have some good ideas.

Another way I think of this is in my own terms of being a touch person.  Yes, a kiss on the cheek when he/I get home is appreciated, but it's not really outside of what i would expect from any relationship. The times he really makes me feel loved is when I am washing dishes and he comes up behind me and wraps his arms around me and tells me he loves me. It's the UNEXPECTED times that make me feel most loved. Yes, the more intimate times make me feel loved as well... .and lately those have been more unexpected because I feel like we have gotten so busy with our lives and moving.  So in a sense, the more intimate times have become more outside of the norm... .so when then happen it works for me... .  lucky i suppose.

In my BPD world though... .i don't really expect this to go on forever. But right now I enjoy being painted white... .and I will hold onto this for everything its worth.

ALSO- to reply to Wrongturn1:  I was married for 8 years to a NON man. We both did the love languages thing- it never lasted more than 2 weeks in his ADHD world. It has to depend on the person I think- and I don't think it matters whether they are BPD or not. My BPD is well aware and has done a much better job fulfilling my needs over 3 years... .than my NON BPD exhusband did never lasting more than 2 weeks.

[Hmcbart]

I don't think it's you being too sensitive.  It's you being a rational human being who knows what he needs from his SO to feel loved and cherished in a relationship. There is nothing wrong with that. It took me 19 years to figure out that I gave up my emotional wants and needs. Getting them back now is my goal.

As far as service, I wish I could say that she values service above other needs but that would mean she would be trying to show affection by acts of service to me. Other than the idea that her picking up the kids after school and taking them when I'm out of town, that's really about it. When it comes to laundry she will wash the kids and her clothes but not mine. She rarely folds them and gets upset if I do it because I don't do it the way she wants it done. Very controlling with a lot of things this way.

She will get an idea in her head of how something should be and when it doesn't come out exactly like she thought she gets frustrated and angry. It's gotten to the point that she doesn't do much of anything around the house anymore because she can't live up to her own standard. We've been in this house for 8 years and have 2 pictures of the kids hanging up. She was upset with me after because she wasn't happy with where I hung them. I offer to let her do it but she closes down when the idea of her doing it is brought up. If she does it and doesn't like it she can only blame herself. If I do it then she can blame me, so I choose not to do it. This makes her mad because I won't do anything to help around the house.

It's a game you can't win until you learn how not to play.

[Hmcbart]

Cloud- I did try the other things you mentioned. When I'm home on the weekends the kids are downstairs with me and she stays upstairs the whole time. I do the cooking and cleaning if I'm home because she usually has a headache or some other ailments keeping her from joining the rest of the family.

You name it and I've probably tried it. The come up behind her while she's doing something (she rarely does dishes) gets a response of thank you on a good day and swimming away saying what do you want on the bad days. There aren't any acts of service left that I'm not already doing as regular chores or duties any longer.

Now the big thing is security. She needs to feel secure that I'm going to keep working and earning a good living and not leave her. I make very good money but it comes with a lot of hours of work. I've been with her 20 years so I'm not leaving. It's all just another hurdle for me to jump to reach a goal that never stops moving or changing. And one bad day or if I get upset or angry resets every hurdle I've previously cleared.

[Notwendy]

My take on the love languages idea is that is is based on the idea of reciprocity. "I will do your love language if you do mine".

IMHO, something done with the idea of reciprocity isn't going to work as designed, because if reciprocity existed in this relationship in the way we imagined it should be, the issues would not be there.

In most relationships there is a back and forth giving taking, not always in balance but it comes out in the wash over time. Even a friendship may not last long if only one person is doing the inviting, planning, giving and the other one does not reciprocate.

I read somewhere that you fill up someone's "love bank" before you take out of it. Well, for someone with BPD it might feel like filling up the Grand Canyon with a teaspoon of sand at a time. That does not mean we don't do it, but I don't know if we can expect reciprocity in the same way. Yet we stay in these relationships for a reason, there may be some giving back, but perhaps not in the way we think it should be. Sometimes we need to adjust our ideas, and in other cases, reassess the relationship.

We can still give, be loving, speak a love language, but I think it has to come from a different place, with different expectations. I try to be a caring, giving person because this is how I want to be, but I also can not give and do to the point where I am resentful. Resentment is not a gift to the other person. This is why self care and boundaries are important.

[cloudten]

It's all just another hurdle for me to jump to reach a goal that never stops moving or changing. And one bad day or if I get upset or angry resets every hurdle I've previously cleared.

I understand that entirely.

A agree with Notwendy- when we are in a relationship with a BPD, we cannot expect reciprocity in the same way.  I have found that adjusting myself is much more affective than trying to change him.

"We can still give, be loving, speak a love language, but I think it has to come from a different place, with different expectations. I try to be a caring, giving person because this is how I want to be, but I also can not give and do to the point where I am resentful. Resentment is not a gift to the other person. This is why self care and boundaries are important."

Woo! Preach it!

I got from someone around this board that "I will give what I get". I like this. I have told my BPD this. I am also applying this to other relationships. I broke up with two of my best friends a couple weeks ago because I realized they were not reciprocating the friendship. I haven't missed those 2 one bit. They can go be old biddies together and piss and moan about their lives. I am happy.

With my BPD, I do not give what I get to that complete extent, or I would give practically nothing... .which doesn't satisfy me either.  I suppose my own motto with my BPD has become "I will give what I get and maybe a little more if I wish".  It's sort of been working for me.  I am not killing myself like I used to to make him happy. I am not responsible for his happiness... .and this has been freeing. I do the best I can do to be the best girlfriend/fiancee I can be... .and beyond that- its up to him.

[DrA]

I also try not to give more than I can give.  But, I will say I can give a whole lot.  And when I think I can't give anymore all someone has to do is ask and I'll give a little more.  I am a pleaser!  I know that is not good, but it is hard to change.  I try to do the self talk that I can not make my wife happy, only she can do that.  Unfortunately I also feel like I can not really have full happiness without her being involved.  yes, I can watch movies, play basketball, have fun with the kids etc.  But for me it is all missing the reason I got married.  I like being loved by the one I love. 

[cloudten]

a companion... .its the whole reason we pick a partner.