Anger. Why?

[citylist]

Is there any reason for BPD anger? Is this part of the symptoms? Each days end I feel like I flip a coin, should I stay or should I leave. I feel like I am 'now" so buried in this chaos, that I cant get out. My wife is BPD and has this incredible knack of making everything my fault. When I try and explain myself, she just over talks me and things get louder. Most times I walk away but sometimes I cant. Her 2 daughters have just left the nest with in the last year. Now we have just my 14 year old Asperger son. WOW she loves him and hates him. I go to work everyday and my wife chooses to stay home and teach her self a career. Whatever, I dont mind, but she parents very badly. Her 2 girls now NEVER call or stop by. They have disowned their mom as the rest of my wife's siblings as well have disowned her. I have NEVER seen anger rear its ugliness like this ever before. We were in a restaurant a few months ago and someone from across the room was looking at our dishes, as I do too, to see if that might be something I may order next time. My wife looked at the guy and yelled "What the f**k are you looking at motherf**k*r". She kept this up until the guy turned his head the other way. I was so embarrassed and thought we were going to be asked to leave. Then in a very loud voice she felt compelled to tell the entire restaurant her thoughts. WOW! (

The worst of all is with my Autistic son. She feels that he should be an adult and know everything. He is 14 with very very minimal social skills. He is high functioning with a genius IQ. She treats him like that guy in the restaurant. He doesnt want to even be at my house anymore. I am so beside myself. I have suggested maybe looking into some medication to help but she doesnt think she has an anger issue. Any ideas from anyone? Please. I am ready to throw in the towel after 8 years of marriage and an 11 year relationship. I have to share my feelings: I feel like I have been used, to finance her life and make her parenting the best by being the provider for HER girls. My son has always got the short end of the stick but I always prayed it would change thru time. Now it seems to be getting worse. I feel used, so used. NOW on the other hand there are many times when she is the BEST. With her efforts and stuff she does for us... .or maybe I just think that the things she does for us are "good" because she tells us so. Oh man, this is where my head is. She is on Lamictal and has a therapist, she see's less and less as time goes on. When we would see a therapist together it turned into a blaming match... .no good. She is the worlds BEST justifier that she is correct/right and there is a very good reason that she is the victim.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I feel for you. My uBPD wife followed the same path when her daughter left the house. Lots and lots of anger, lots of abuse, lots of criticism. My idea is they've built themselves a meta-stable life around being a mother and provider. It gives them a shell to hide in where they can feel normal. When the children leave they find out that all the stuff they thought was successfully buried away is still right there. This frightens them, and since they don't have empathy or the tools to self-reflect they lay the blame for the pain on the person or people they feel safest with. Unfortunately in your case all of that stuff hits you and your son.

Everything my wife said and did to me was a reflection of her own inner turmoil. She denies its existence so in all likelihood it will always be there. It seems your wife is the same way, and will likely stay that way also. Are you prepared for this? Are you prepared to have your son endure this also?

[Mutt]

Hi citylist,



I'm sorry to hear that. It's sad to hear that your partner is directing disproportionate anger towards your son and how embarrassing is that in a public place like a restaurant?

A key component with sufferers of BPD is disproportionate displays of anger with what would seem to us like its out of proportion with the situation or circumstances warrant. This is also know as borderline rage; this outward anger from their original wounds is often directed at the people that are closest to the person.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Anger and Rage

BPD anger can be treated with DBT therapy. Is she diagnosed or not diagnosed?

[OnceConfused]

To BPD, their internal anger and frustration are caused by others so they had to lash out at others. Therefore they don't see the problems as theirs. That is why even professional Ts are afraid of dealing with BPD.

In my case, the xBPDgf went to see a T after her divorce. She told the T her only side of the story so the T affirmed her that she was ok and the xh was actually the abuser. I believed her story until I began to be abused then I realized how she distorted the story to her advantage.

[Lucky Jim]

Well said, OnceConfused.  That's exactly my experience, too, with my BPDxW, who didn't see her rage as her problem.  Plus, she was extremely convincing, which is why others often accepted her distorted version of events despite being replete with lies and exaggerations.  On some level, I think my BPDxW actually believed her own lies, even when confronted with facts to the contrary, which may sound strange but is what I observed.

LuckyJim

[Sadly]

Same here. My mans anger is frightening and loud and virtually always directed at me. If I come up later with irefutable proof about whatever it was he got mad about most times he won't even acknowledge it happened. Says I must have imagined his anger and shouting, that it didnt happen and its all in my head because I am sick!. All too weird. No-one would believe you if they didnt see or hear it for themselves, and somehow that never happens.

[ShadowIntheNight]

My ex always used the excuse that her anger was because she was Hispanic. Thing is I've known other Hispanics who didn't fly into rages about almost every little thing. So I really think the anger is part and parcel of the disorder. What they choose to say about it is where the excuses come from.

My ex's didn't get better over 9.5 years. It actually became more pronounced. She blamed it on stress. And she was always stressed... .

[citylist]

Oh man, I didnt think I had any replies to this post because, I thought I use to get an email saying so, so I was starting to get despondent thinking I was all alone in this, . Not funny, but you know.

I am so thrown back into reality thinking, from these responses.

What you all, ShadowIntheNight, Sadly, ESPECIALLY Lucky Jim, OnceConfused, Mutt and TheRealJongoBong, have shared with me is EXACTLY what I experience. It's crazy, wow and I lose focus of reality so this becomes my reality. Im strong, mindful and have a lot of experience in most of what happens in a good therapist office. I do love my wife and we now have a 12 year history of a lot of great core human growing together, if that makes sense. Kids, animals, big purchases, friends, family, decision making etc. I want to stay with her for the duration, if this is what my God wants. Im not religious, but very spiritual. She is my best friend but I am learning I need to play the "game" her way if I chose to stay. My biggest concern now (a new bridge) is my son. I want a happy, healthy structured environment for him. When he was younger, it was easier. Now he is 14 and is aware. I try and teach him about BPD to help him understand but I dont know how long this will work (or if it even will) before he gives up.

Every time I write or respond to a post, I re-read what I wrote and I cant believe how sick all of this is. Its like a nightmare. Then I feel like I should give up everything from the past 12 years and run. My son was 2 when he met my wife and we have had a fairly healthy productive life, mainly with me as the one who had provided the guidance, I believe. Thank you all for your insights. The more I read, the more I understand that this is all part of it and I shouldnt take it personal. God I hate being in front of that bullet. I so wish I had some sort of live support group near me. I have been and still going thru all of the reads and videos here. Now I am on the boards for "real time" support. Please dont leave. I would love to join the Staying board soon. Im tryin so hard. Just need to try and keep my sanity. I actually thought years ago that she would just get burnt out of behaving like she does, with some normalcy in her life. Man was I dead wrong

TY Steve

[Sadly]

One thing I have learnt from here, there is always someone here for you, never fear that. The strength, and dedication and care that you will get is a given, trust me on that, no matter what board you are on or what choice you make, they have you covered. It has saved my life, literally. Love to you and your boy

[TheRealJongoBong]

I do love my wife and we now have a 12 year history of a lot of great core human growing together, if that makes sense. Kids, animals, big purchases, friends, family, decision making etc.

Hey City, I'm a little curious. Did your wife always have BPD behaviors or did it become worse over time?  My uBPD wife seemed relatively normal for many years, and only seemed to show BP traits after some big changes in her life (daughter off to college, moving to a new home). The thing that seemed to really set it off is when we sold our house and moved in with her parents for a month. Her father was a raging uNPD and her mother is sort of an avoidant codepedant - it seemed like my wife fell back into her childhood and never came up again. When her father started to become ill and finally passed it seemed to me like she transferred all her bad feelings for him onto me.

All you can do is learn as much as you can and hang on.

[citylist]

Thanks for the reply TheRealJongoBon, its weird. At first about 12 years ago it seemed that she would get the flippy personality thing going just before her period and would only last a week or so. I thought she had ADHD at first because she couldnt hear or pay attention to anything other than where her thoughts were at. She argued with me that I was crazy about this (starting already) and there was nothing abnormal about her behavior. I gotta tell you that the behavior was over the top. I started writing on a calendar, with notes, every time this happened. I told her about it after a few months and she agreed to look at what I had recorded. It was then that she confirmed within herself that she had, what she thought was, Bi-Poplar, as apparently it ran in her family, so she was told. She saw a psychiatrist and was put on some meds. Well she didnt like most of them so she self medicated and only took the one she liked. When she was told that the meds worked best when taken together, she stopped seeing that psychiatrist and moved on to another "therapist" who took her diagnosis at her word and allowed her to continue taking meds of her choice. This was about 8 years ago. The episodes got worse, the more she re-modified her behavior to fit the diagnosis. THEN, her daughter had the same behaviors when she entered preteen and teen. As my wife was looking up her daughters behavioral patterns, she realized that her daughter was BPD. The light bulb came on for my wife at that time because she realized that she also had BPD. It was easier for my wife to hide the symptoms now that she knew what they were. This was the second hill of the roller coaster. My wifes responses to issues are way over the top, either way, good or bad. To answer your question, things changed all the time. Life was never consistent enough for me to "spot" anything so I was kept always guessing, confused and with a broken down reality. I felt zombie-like. My wife was now in the process of redefining who she was and who she wanted to be. She is good at that and the world never knows. I know who she is and I wish she could just let it all go and be herself. For her, the episodes seem like they are a sabotage of successful events now, but not always. I believe she feels like she is not defective, but broken and never able to "be fixed". That is the mind set that she works with now and nobody else matters, like "Im broke so who cares, I have a good excuse". We have advanced to the level where it is ALL about her and she is the supreme being the whole world should listen to and she is going to orchestrate everything. It can be so damaging at this point in life because there are other variables in this equation now. Like a 14 year old Asperger boy who is not her blood. We went to a water park yesterday. My wife couldnt find her bathing suit bottoms and screamed and yelled at the top of her lungs for about an hour that my 14 year old son entering puberty or the contractor we hired to do some roof work MUST have taken it. Well the roof guy was really out so that only left my son. He came up to me and said dad shes crazy. I went in her dresser, that I NEVER go in, and found the suit. Never an apology or anything. IDK, these things started getting worse (almost seems like) after we bought a new SUV for my wife a couple weeks ago. But this was a GOOD thing and she went into the over the top ecstatic high mode and now this low low angry mode. So now she is at the point where she doesnt see her therapist and is in denial that there is anything wrong. I think she is about to hit another bottom. I just hope I can hang on that long. I feel like I am scattered and rambling so I'll quit.

[ShadowIntheNight]

My ex used her period as an excuse too. For 10 years (time we were together). So it happend every month for 10 years, 12 months in a year, times 10 and you get the picture. This woman saw her gyno every year. You'd think once she'd mention how she turned into Mr. Hyde every month and was there anything to do to adjust so she wouldn't rage and turn into a class a beech. But THAT never happened. Instead I got very good at knowing when she was about to start.

And invariably after the worst part of her behavior for the week preceding, she would start the next day.and then turn back into Dr. Jeckyl for the next 3 weeks. Now maybe some of those were PMS, and being a woman too I can understand. But I never could ever understand every month for 10 years. And I'm pretty sure whomever she's with now is thinking to himself, women and their periods.

It wasn't that for my ex, not at all. BTW, my ex is a practicing therapist. She may think something is up on the inside of her, but I don't think so. I truly think she thinks it's everyone else. Even me. And I used to be the most laid back person you'd ever meet. Not now. If she came back I'm not sure she could handle the things I'd say to her. They can dish it out but turn into wimps when you give it back to them.its like they don't even really see or accept that side of themselves.

[citylist]

WOW! Perfect. Its been so, so hard to separate and define my own reality but with the help of the feedback I get here, it's becoming clearer. Thank you so much for helping me feel sain again. Im on a quest. Ive been thinking alot about my son's well being and she is flippin again. She just had a visit with her oldest daughter who is in college. We drove across the state to see her and spent the day together. I encouraged this and made it happen because I am a loving, easy (very) going kind of full of love guy. The day went good until the end and then it dawned on me this girl was just like her mother as she had an episode in a restuarant that was embarrasing for us. She walked out and her mother followed her to "comfort" her. Im sure I was the bad guy and it had nothing to do with me. My son just rolled his eyes and said nothing. I dont know if this 20 year old is now starting to show signs of some sort of PTSD, BP or BPD or if she just learned these behaviors while living with us for 12 years from her mother. Then yesterday we had the other daughter over with her boyfriend for dinner. Once again I pushed and made this happen. Everyone was a willing participant. The day turned out with the same thing. This daughter however has been diagnosed with BP. WOW I feel so doomed. This morning at 3 am my wife flipped and started yelling at me. I was in a dead sleep. Not even sure why but today she isnt talking to me. WHAT I SEE from this pattern is: When I veer from "her" path of demanding destruction, I am treated like this until I "bend" and get back on "her" curriculum. (Kind of a behavioral modification. Ive had dogs, . Reward and discipline) I understand "A happy wife is a happy life" but this is ridicules. Im spent.

Thanks so much for sharing

[citylist]

Oh man. I just ran across a thread that mentioned "Cluster B". So I googled it and did not really like what I read. It really scared me... .She is all of that

[Lucky Jim]

I understand "A happy wife is a happy life" but this is ridicules.

Hey citylist, After marriage to a pwBPD, I don't subscribe to that quote, which implies that codependency leads to happiness.  I would argue that the reverse is true.  Happiness, I would suggest, comes from within, not from making someone else happy, particularly if that someone else has BPD, in which case you will never be able to do enough, as many of us have discovered.

LuckyJim

[citylist]

Yeah, Lucky Jim, I surly do agree with you on that. I DON'T and never did subscribe to that quote either. One of my customer's threw that out at me a few years ago and I thought wow, now how co-dependent is that. Co-dependent No More by Melody Beatty in the 80's got me out of a marriage with a coke addict. That was the beginning of my recovery from societies beliefs of life as a whole. I did mean tho, exactly as you stated, I could never make my wife stay happy for the best of her. Its too exhausting and it dont work anyway, as I have learned (finally out of denial (me)). The thing that breaks my heart along with my esteem and all is, my wife KNOWS the behaviors as defined. She agrees, understands and has worked very hard on herself to be a a healthier person but now it seems like, not only has she dropped the ball, but its worse that it has ever been before. We havent talked since yesterday, which isnt the first time but today, she sent me an email about 3 pages long on how all of this (whatever it is) is ALL my fault. Now if I felt today, like I have before, I would try and make it alright so we could talk. She is frail and fragile. I cant fix her and I have to stop trying to do, for both of us. Is this condition progressive? Does anybody know? I am truly in limbo right now but I will be ok and back here tomorrow. I was thinking this afternoon, after I got her email. She seems to me, to be heading to a psych word, to jail or suicide. This is pretty much how I live each day and it sucks. Thats why I am back here. I want to stay in this marriage but I believe I may have to go. She is to the point where she throws out on facebook the fact that she has BP and BPD, looking for attention. She gets it and it fuels her for awhile longer. She believes that she has many, many friends and the truth of it is, we have lost them all. My family wont even come over anymore. Im not clear on what to write here and what is not acceptable but I will just throw it out and read the replies. That keeps me in reality, at least for now until I can concretely make up my mind what to do with the last part of this life that I was given to live. Thanks again and everybody keep it coming, good or bad, I need it

[TheRealJongoBong]

Hang in there citylist. Your wife sounds way too much like mine. She called the cops on me last night for leaving the yard gate open. She hasn't really spoken to me for days, and has split me so black that I think it will take years for her to get over it.  It's the first time in this relationship that I feel that my personal safety is at stake.

Her issue lately (amongst all the others) seems to be that her dog likes me more than her. Funny, I treat him like a free individual and let him do what he wants to do (within limits, of course, he is a dog). She mainly tries to coerce him into doing everything, and dragging him around by the collar when he's not prompt enough. Wow, that sounds like her behavior towards me too!

[citylist]

Thanks TheRealJongoBong, thats me too. SAME stuff. Does anyone know if this is a stage? It seems to be getting worse. Now keep in mind that we have been together for 12 years. Not much has changed other than we have found some recovery (together, with my support 100%) over the past few years and follow pretty rigorous structure to keep us both on the same page. She just started menopause about 9 months ago if that counts for anything. I have slept with the bedroom door locked on and off now for about 2 years in fear that I may not be here to wake up. She did take a whole bottle of Lamictal (her BPD meds) about a month ago. That was a sad to see thing. I looked online and called poison control and found that its not lethal but will mess you up. I didnt knowledge an attempted suicide. I know, sad, but these issues have been addressed although there is no cure or final answer. I will tell you that at this moment she is EXTREMELY paranoid, jealous, suspicious, angry, angry, angry and explosive. Its like all that we have experienced in the past 8 years or so is happening again, all at once. Im worried and dont know what to do. Her mother committed suicide when she was 12. Her father committed suicide when she was 22. Her sister 12 years older has dis-owned her. Her brother 1 year older lives in AZ and has pretty much disowned her. Her brothers wife committed suicide about 6 years ago. WOW it just goes on and on with her nephews suicide several months ago. My point here is, I know it IS an option for her and obviously she is exercising that. Will it bounce back or is this some sort of a landslide. Somebody?

[ShadowIntheNight]

Thanks TheRealJongoBong, thats me too. SAME stuff. Does anyone know if this is a stage? It seems to be getting worse. Now keep in mind that we have been together for 12 years. Not much has changed other than we have found some recovery (together, with my support 100%) over the past few years and follow pretty rigorous structure to keep us both on the same page. She just started menopause about 9 months ago if that counts for anything. I have slept with the bedroom door locked on and off now for about 2 years in fear that I may not be here to wake up. She did take a whole bottle of Lamictal (her BPD meds) about a month ago. That was a sad to see thing. I looked online and called poison control and found that its not lethal but will mess you up. I didnt knowledge an attempted suicide. I know, sad, but these issues have been addressed although there is no cure or final answer. I will tell you that at this moment she is EXTREMELY paranoid, jealous, suspicious, angry, angry, angry and explosive. Its like all that we have experienced in the past 8 years or so is happening again, all at once. Im worried and dont know what to do. Her mother committed suicide when she was 12. Her father committed suicide when she was 22. Her sister 12 years older has dis-owned her. Her brother 1 year older lives in AZ and has pretty much disowned her. Her brothers wife committed suicide about 6 years ago. WOW it just goes on and on with her nephews suicide several months ago. My point here is, I know it IS an option for her and obviously she is exercising that. Will it bounce back or is this some sort of a landslide. Somebody?

Mu uBPDexgf seemed to get worse the longer we were together. It started getting bad about 5 years ago (coincidently when her mother divorced for the third time because said husband didnt want to go shopping with her EVERY weekend and wanted to play golf instead of traveling the world with her AND I feel sure her mother is her major trigger but my ex is afraid of her). I also suspect that premenopausal stuff may be behind part of this for her. But she's gone now, and is someone else's problem for now. She'll probably be back. She won't be pulling that stuff with me anymore. That I know because I know me now. I hope you can get past your fears. It's hard stuff.

[citylist]

 :'( So, now my BPD wife is getting back to "normal?" Shes acting like nothing happened. This just took another chunk out of my life. I am emotionally drained not to mention running cover for my 14 yo asperger son was crazy. He seems to be her main target. I dont know if I can handle these flips anymore. I want to be happy, secure and safe. This episode I have to say, has been the most identifying one so far. All the others in the past, I would shake my head and kinda think to myself, "whats going on here, is it something to be concerned about or should I just ride it out and let it go"? Im tired... .

[Lucky Jim]

So, now my BPD wife is getting back to "normal?" Shes acting like nothing happened. This just took another chunk out of my life. I am emotionally drained

Well, that's the usual pattern.  Things will be "normal" for a while until it happens again.  Sad thing is, it always happens again; It's just a question of time.  I can understand why you feel drained, because it's an exhausting process.  Towards the end, I had nothing left in the tank.

Suggest you try to focus on taking care of yourself and making sure you don't become any more depleted than you already are.

LuckyJim

[citylist]

Thank you Lucky Jim, I will do that

[TheRealJongoBong]

Here's my latest example of the usual pattern. My wife contacted the police and accused me giving drugs to and having sex with boys on our street. The "boy" she mentioned is actually an 18 yr old with mild autism. The police checked it out and reported that "the accusations are unfounded". The next day my wife denied calling the police and said the issue was this kid making up stories, and the policeman who talked with me got it all wrong. I have both the police report and recordings of her denial, so at least I know what reality is.  Now today she is inviting me to some kind of event on Sunday as if nothing even happened.

So she tries to get me thrown into prison, says it never happened, and now wants me to go with her somewhere to work on "our" problems.

[citylist]

WOW no! This happens to me as well. My wife has disappeared several times in our marriage, for a few hours at a time. One night when we were drinking a bit, she felt compelled to "come clean" with me as the BS was bothering her too much. She told me that she went to a hospital and had them check out "whatever", a bruise, sprained finger etc. She told the hospitals that I did this to her and filed a report. I never ever knew this and was COMPLETELY blown away. Nothing has ever come from this but I wonder if I file for divorce, will this surface and how do I refute this... .wow I am in the wrong life

[TheRealJongoBong]

CityList you better start now thinking on how you are going to protect yourself! She could use this evidence to claim DV, get you tossed in the slammer and thrown out of your house. Many people here recommend audio recording of interactions with your spouse (check you state laws for legal issues, mine says only one party consent to recording in the conversation is required, other states require both). Other people recommend video recording as well.  If you file for divorce then your wife will be triggered and then who knows what will happen.

Many people here also think I'm plain nuts for not running immediately for the exits given my wife's recent bahavior. They've told me her allegations could have netted me jail time and worse. I disagree on this particular point because I've done nothing wrong. That said, if she continues this path sooner or later she will hit pay dirt and my goose will be cooked.

[citylist]

Oh man... .so my son went to his moms for her 2 weeks, on monday of this week. I thought my wife may kind of re-manage her emotions a bit better since he was gone and it was just us. Nope. getting worse. Shes now following me after I go to work, questioning all the "likes" I post on FB, where I am at when she cant tell etc. Her big thing now is bombing my phone with the term "Gaslighter" whatever that is supposed to mean and calling me passive aggressive. The anger is no less than intense now. Im feeling that the people I know are looking at me strange now (paranoia?) as if they know something that I dont know. My wife is great at "setting the stage" in her defense, way ahead of time. Im thinking that I just need to end this relationship after 13 years but its so hard for me. I am a leader, intelligent, kind, a business owner and have fended for myself my whole life. "Go getter" as they say, but for some reason this woman has "MADE" herself a permanent part of my life structure and its hard for me to think of life after her. I think about what she will do, what I will do and its scary... .Just lost with my thoughts