Divorce/annulment

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm new to this board.  I normally post on the staying board, but lately have been seeing the "writing on the wall" so to speak, and feel it's time to research what is involved in divorce/or annulment.  Sadly, we've been married less than a year, but things seem to be getting worse and not better, and I just can't see things going anywhere anymore. 

So what is the procedure?  Talk to lawyer first?

We have no kids together.  No real shared property (she moved into my house).

She has no job and collects disability.

She really has no other friend/family to go to (all are painted black).

Also, she did assault me physically a few times, the worst was a few weeks ago.  I took photos of my bruises and injuries, but did not press any charges.  Thoughts on this?

[maxsterling]

I'm new to this board.  I normally post on the staying board, but lately have been seeing the "writing on the wall" so to speak, and feel it's time to research what is involved in divorce/or annulment.  Sadly, we've been married less than a year, but things seem to be getting worse and not better, and I just can't see things going anywhere anymore. 

So what is the procedure?  Talk to lawyer first?

We have no kids together.  No real shared property (she moved into my house).

She has no job and collects disability.

She really has no other friend/family to go to (all are painted black).

Also, she did assault me physically a few times, the worst was a few weeks ago.  I took photos of my bruises and injuries, but did not press any charges.  Thoughts on this?

[ForeverDad]

Did you file a report with the police?  Having independent documentation is much more powerful than just your account.  If she denies it, almost a certainty, or even makes her own allegations, then court can become much more complicated.

With a short marriage and no children, there shouldn't be any reason for conflict.  However, when dealing with an acting-out person, logic and reason are swept aside and replaced by feelings of rejection, retaliation, blaming and blame-shifting.  So be aware and beware, she may try to make you look worse than her... .even if you don't say anything negative about her, the upcoming 'abandonment' can trigger her to act out.  How?  False allegations, obstructions and delays in the divorce process so she gets to stay longer, etc.

Yes, do get legal advice.  Find an experienced attorney, not just someone to file forms and hold your hand.  You need a problem solver who can be assertive (and bail you out of jail) after she gets her divorce paperwork.  Hopefully her overreaction won't be that bad but better to be overly prepared rather than be unprepared and suffer.

Once she is served or informed of your decision to divorce it is best not be alone with her ever again, as bad as she was before it might be riskier during the divorce process.  Since she's not working and "nowhere to go" she could reason to herself that if she got a restraining order on you then she could delay the divorce and stay longer in your house and you metaphorically on the outside looking in.  As I wrote, hopefully it won't be that bad... .but you never know until it's all over months or years later.

Before my separation and divorce my ex ranted and raged more and more.  I felt so at risk that I started recording myself (strange how her rants and rages filled the recordings, huh?) to have proof I wasn't the one misbehaving or abusing.  It was my insurance, so to speak.  I expected false allegations and my foresight was invaluable.

[maxen]

So what is the procedure?  Talk to lawyer first?

yes. initial consultations may be free, or you may have to pay for an hour but get as much time as you need (i had both experiences). go in prepared: know what you want to tell and what you want to ask. talk to more than one.

She has no job and collects disability.

She really has no other friend/family to go to (all are painted black).

you're showing gentuinely decent concern for her situation, but you may also be showing a lack of concern for your own. you've described what your life has been like and the way things are going. it's at the point now where your safety is involved:

Also, she did assault me physically a few times, the worst was a few weeks ago.  I took photos of my bruises and injuries

many, maybe all of us have been in a position where we wanted to be kind. i didn't have an explicit DV situation, but i did want to be agreeable with an exw whose financial situation was very poor. eventually i saw that i was dealing with an entitled, grasping, unapologetic person (b/c i was too invested during the marriage to see that  )  whose concern for me was essentially nil and whose situation was of her own making anyway. it wasn't easy thinking like that about the person i chose to marry, but it's true.

do you have a therapist or close friends to talk things out with?

[maxsterling]

do you have a therapist or close friends to talk things out with?

Individual Therapist, DV advocate (social worker, basically), MC... .plus a few friends. 

[livednlearned]

Hi Maxsterling,

I'm sorry things aren't working out. You gave it a good shot and worked hard, maybe harder than many would. You tried and the relationship is failing. Glad you have some support in place to help you through this.

Do you have a sense of whether your wife is a high-conflict personality? Not all people with BPD are high-conflict personalities. However, all HCPs have BPD (according to Bill Eddy, who co-wrote Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse), in addition to recruiting negative advocates, being persuasive blamers, and having a target of blame (you).

It's important to know if you're dealing with someone who is BPD. I also think it's possible that some people with BPD become high-conflict during a divorce, especially if they are high-functioning enough and hire an aggressive lawyer.

The good thing is that you have no been married long, and it's relatively straightforward what you'll be trying to do, which is to simply terminate the marriage (versus custody or division of assets). The challenges will be getting her to comply and stick to a timeline (obstruction and stonewalling is common). Above all, the challenge will be to avoid a false allegation while going through the separation process.

It's best at this point to not discuss the divorce with her until you have a safety and exit plan in place.

We recommend that people talk to a lawyer or two or three to consult and figure out the best strategy before retaining someone to represent you, like maxen suggests. Each lawyer has different strengths and limitations. Be wary of picking a lawyer who is overly confident. I think there are a lot of narcissistic lawyers in the pool... .

I also found it helpful to have a friend go with me, someone who would take notes. All that cortisol pumping through the system makes it hard to remember things  

Be careful right now. Your T needs to help you focus on protecting yourself first and foremost, which is often hard to do for our type. We tend to want to protect the other person.

If your ex attacks you again, call the police. It's too easy right now for her to call, in which case, you'll be needing a criminal lawyer to defend you against a false DV charge, which an affect your employment for a long time depending on where you live.

[maxsterling]

It's best at this point to not discuss the divorce with her until you have a safety and exit plan in place.

Yes.  That is my thought.  No further contact with her at all unless there is a witness present or it is somehow in writing. 

She seems to think I have no legal recourse to force her out of the house, because she is my wife.   That is not true.  I could get an order of protection, which would force NC from both sides for a year.   Since the house is in my name and I purchased it before I met her, and I would be the one serving the OOP, she would be forced to leave.   I have a meeting tomorrow at 8am to obtain the OOP, which can be served to her any time during the next year.  I want to have that safety plan in place before any talk of divorce or separation.  I know how manipulative she is.  From talking to the DV advocate, getting an OOP should not be that hard.  I have photos of my injuries (bruises) textual documentation of threatening and abusive text messages and emails, several police reports, her threatening me and hitting me during calls to 911, in addition to witnesses if necessary.

So that is my safety plan - OOP on file and ready to serve at moments notice.  Then meet with her with a mediator (such as our MC) present, and be very firm that I have zero tolerance for further violence (and do not mention my OOP).  I've talked to her T and left a message with our MC about the idea of a therapeutic separation.  If we can meet and agree to that for a period of a few weeks, perhaps the OOP will not be necessary.

But she does meet with her T tomorrow, and does plenty of outreach to social workers, and assuming she is truthful, I am sure they will all tell her that her behavior meets the definition of assault, that she is lucky she was not arrested, and that she CAN be forced from the house if I serve an OOP.

[maxsterling]

I should ask - is this common for pwBPD to claim they know all about the laws and have contacted lawyers when really they haven't?   I can't imagine in any way my wife getting legal advice that she can't be forced from our home.  I'm thinking her telling me this is a form of manipulation, of her trying to manipulate me against filing an OOP claiming it would not do anything anyway... .

I'm no expert on the laws of this state (except in one particular area - and that is not marriage and divorce), but I do know that this is a community property state, and anything that belonged to one person prior to marriage still belongs to that person after marriage, and anything acquired after marriage is considered property of both.  The only things we have acquired post-marriage are wedding gifts and household goods.   

[still_in_shock]

how long have you known each other/dated before marrying? Did not you notice the symptoms then?

[formflier]

I should ask - is this common for pwBPD to claim they know all about the laws and have contacted lawyers when really they haven't?   I can't imagine in any way my wife getting legal advice that she can't be forced from our home.  I'm thinking her telling me this is a form of manipulation, of her trying to manipulate me against filing an OOP claiming it would not do anything anyway... .

 

Yes... .my wife has left printouts from lawyer websites,... .I've had "lawyers" call my house returning a message or call to her... .

She will "accidentally" leave a site up on her laptop and walk away from it.

I used to "bite" on this stuff... .now I just ignore it... .pretty rare now for me.  I think December was the last lawyer thing she tried.

No idea if she has ever placed a call... .or done anything

Of course... .tons of divorce threats.

FF

[livednlearned]

My ex is a former trial lawyer. I don't know why I didn't just consult with a lawyer all those years he talked about law this and law that, how I would end up in section 8 housing, have to pay him back, would lose custody of S13, be deported blah blah blah. I actually believed him.

Don't second-guess yourself, maxsterling. Talk to a lawyer or two and find out how the law works where you are. You can learn a little from the Internet, but nothing substitutes for the cold hard truth from a lawyer.

About the OOP, where I live, the OOP is often granted during the first hearing. It's the second hearing where your wife would likely show up with an attorney or her own DV advocate.

Also, by the way, I'm glad you have a DV advocate, and that someone is supporting you. It's really courageous to reach out and tell someone your story, and let them help you. 

[Grey Kitty]

From your other topics, you indicated that you have the OOP, and can serve it/start it on any time in the next year, and haven't done so as of yet.

Have you consulted a lawyer to better understand the divorce/annulment options yet?