Just finished 3rd MC session and feel like crap

[Hmcbart]

I'm so screwed up mentally right now after going to MC. I don't really know what actually happened. There was a lot of blaming of the other person. I did it also. She went on and on how I can't drop things and I always bring them up again. How I called Monday to tell her about my feelings and turned it into a 2 hour call because I can't let go of things. I did call and tell her my feelings but it was because of that she got angry and she wouldn't let go. But I got the blame for it.

She went on to say how she has felt like I put her last for the last 12 years and put my job first. A few minutes later the T stopped the blaming and asked us why we are still married. I answered because of the kids. She said because our families are so far away and I am the only one working. She said that I can pick up and leave anytime I want because I make the money and she can't do that.

Fast forward another 5 minutes and T asks what we appreciate about each other. Her answer confused the hell out of me. She said that she appreciated the fact that I do work hard so she can be a stay at home mom... .really, really, I don't freacking get it.

In the car after getting back she told me she was emotionally exhausted because of me and my actions. She admitted that she thinks the headache she got Tuesday that lasted until this morning was because she was emotionally exhausted by my actions.

So now I have to go to work, my head is torn up and I can't think straight. I'm so confused right now. I call my T and was able to get an appointment in the morning even though I just saw him yesterday.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

   

Fast forward another 5 minutes and T asks what we appreciate about each other. Her answer confused the hell out of me. She said that she appreciated the fact that I do work hard so she can be a stay at home mom... .really, really, I don't freacking get it.

What are you confused about? What don't you get?

You are confused about her response. How did she react to your response? The only reason you are still married to her is because of the kids. Neither of you had a response that showed that you have any kind of regard for each other.

In the car after getting back she told me she was emotionally exhausted because of me and my actions. She admitted that she thinks the headache she got Tuesday that lasted until this morning was because she was emotionally exhausted by my actions.

And you are emotionally exhausted by her actions. The two of you are in a bit of a stale mate. Is there any way for the two of you to get on the same team? One of the things that I was able to do was tell my husband, "You know what, both of us are in a bad place. We keep revisiting the same stuff over and over. Let's stop it. Can we focus on being friends? Forget the romance and the marriage and all of that BS. Let's figure out how to be friends again. How can we live peacefully in the same house for the kids?" It has been a bumpy ride for sure and we still have a long way to go.

Before anything could improve, I had to figure out a way to get us on the same team and stop arguing about who was more emotionally exhausted, who was to blame, why were were together, and all of the other crap that was pitting the two of us against each other.

[Hmcbart]

I know I tend to over analyze things a lot. It's my ADD. I have trouble focusing but when I can, I can hyper focus on something and can't get it out of my head.

The who thing with MC today is where I'm currently hyper focused. It brought back a lot of things that when seen as a single instance are meaningless but when looked at as a whole they are telling it things.

A- I asked her once why she doesn't do things for me. Her response was that she watches my boys for me so I don't have to worry about them while I'm working. (They are both our kids)

B- I tell her I want to feel wanted and needed by my wife. She says she feels she does show she needs me because I and the sole provider for the family and she needs me to make her feel secure without a job.

C- when asked why she stays with me she says because I am the only one with a job and that I can leave anytime I want and not have to worry about money but she can't do that. Also because her family is out of state and doesn't have the support here.

D- when asked what she appreciates about me her answer is that I work hard so she can be a stay at home mom.

These are not all from today. A & B were from a couple of months ago. Like I said, I hyper focus on things when I shouldn't and definitely here what I want some times. For me when I here these seperate they are telling of a persons feelings towards another. But when looked at as a whole I feel like the only thing keeping her around is the fact that she doesn't have to work. Add to this the fact that there has been no real physical intimacy, no intimate conversation, very minimal affection for a pretty good while.

The only conclusion my brain keeps coming to is that she hasn't loved me in a very long time and just hasn't had the ability to leave me yet.

I want to be wrong on this. I want to be wrong more than I can say. I do love her and want to find a way to be together as husband and wife with all of the love we deserve from each other. I just don't think she feels the same way. She will say that she loves me and wants to be married to me but all of these things just keep hitting me in the head. I'm so lost right now.

[vortex of confusion]

I know I tend to over analyze things a lot. It's my ADD. I have trouble focusing but when I can, I can hyper focus on something and can't get it out of my head.

Stop the analyzing! Seriously, you are going to drive yourself crazy. Ask me how I know. 

The who thing with MC today is where I'm currently hyper focused. It brought back a lot of things that when seen as a single instance are meaningless but when looked at as a whole they are telling it things.

Try not to look at it as a whole. I did that for a long time. At one time, my husband told me that I no longer tripped his trigger. He has told me that if he had it to do all over again, he probably wouldn't have married me. Um, he has said a lot of different things that have been very hurtful over the years. But, he has also said some really great things too.

Keep in mind that there is a tendency to see feeling as fact. If your wife is feeling something specific at one specific moment, then it is quite likely that she will state it as an indisputable fact. When you try to analyze these facts (which are actually fleeting feelings) it leaves you confused and wondering what the heck is going on.

These are not all from today. A & B were from a couple of months ago. Like I said, I hyper focus on things when I shouldn't and definitely here what I want some times. For me when I here these seperate they are telling of a persons feelings towards another. But when looked at as a whole I feel like the only thing keeping her around is the fact that she doesn't have to work. Add to this the fact that there has been no real physical intimacy, no intimate conversation, very minimal affection for a pretty good while.

What response did you give her about why you stay? You told her that you stayed for the kids. That can't feel very good. At any point did you tell her that you stay because you love her and think that she is a great mom? At any point did you share anything positive with her?

Why would she want to be intimate in any capacity with somebody that is hanging around just for the kids? It goes both ways. That can be a very hard pill to swallow. I spent a lot of time agonizing over a lot of the same things that you are agonizing over.

I was upset because I didn't feel like my husband loved me. I wondered if he ever loved me. But, then I checked in with myself and realized that I had indeed lost that loving feeling. How the heck can I sit here and complain about him not acting loving and intimate, etc. when I was feeling the same way? It was so very painful to look in the mirror and admit that. It was easier for me to focus on what he was feeling, saying, doing than it was for me to look in the mirror and see that I was feeling the way that I was accusing him of feeling.

The only conclusion my brain keeps coming to is that she hasn't loved me in a very long time and just hasn't had the ability to leave me yet.

How long has it been since you have had loving feelings towards her? I seem to recall you saying that you didn't feel the warm fuzzies towards her. How long have those warm fuzzies been gone for YOU?

I want to be wrong on this. I want to be wrong more than I can say. I do love her and want to find a way to be together as husband and wife with all of the love we deserve from each other. I just don't think she feels the same way. She will say that she loves me and wants to be married to me but all of these things just keep hitting me in the head. I'm so lost right now.

I know what you are feeling. I have been there. What do YOU feel? Seriously, think about how YOU feel.

And, I want to comment about her saying that she needs you but you can leave at any time. My husband and I had a conversation about this one time. Yes, he is the primary breadwinner. However, he knows that I could leave at pretty much any time. He sees me as strong and capable while he sees himself as kind of needy. I forget exactly how he phrased it but it was something along the lines of he feels like he needs me more than I need him. There was something about me being too strong for him. He is the man and he wants to feel needed. And, he told me that I sometimes make him feel like the kids are mine and not his because I talk about MY girls or MY kids rather than saying OUR kids or OUR girls. There were lots of little things that I was doing to contribute to the situation that I wasn't seeing because I was stuck in that conflict cycle.

[Hmcbart]

Thank you for talking to me. It has helped a lot. I'm mentally fried right now. I do feel like I was made out to be a monster with some of the things she said in MC. After my wife told her that she is afraid to ask me things or talk to me because of my reactions and the way I get (talking about anger), the T said it sounded like she didn't feel emotionally safe.

I am back to wondering just how mean I am. I hate to argue and have always just agreed and accepted the blame for everything. I typically only raise my voice after a prolonged conflict and I feel backed into a corner.

But today it sounded like she was afraid to talk to me about them going to visit the family for a month because of how I would react. The things I would say if she talked to me about it. How I wont just let things drop and I go on and on. I am guilty of this but it's usually because something I've said angers her and she will then begin asking questions and questions about it and my answers don't matter. So my on and on comes from her asking questions until she gets the answer that shifts the blame for my feelings back to me.

I'm back to believing it's all my fault again. Talk about emotional abuse, if I did 10% of what she accuses me of, I would have been tossed out years ago. If I did 10% of what she does, I'd ne arrested for war crimes against the Geneva Convention.

[vortex of confusion]

Thank you for talking to me. It has helped a lot. I'm mentally fried right now. I do feel like I was made out to be a monster with some of the things she said in MC. After my wife told her that she is afraid to ask me things or talk to me because of my reactions and the way I get (talking about anger), the T said it sounded like she didn't feel emotionally safe.

   

Can you take a break from thinking about all of this stuff? What is something that you like to do to recharge your batteries?

[Fian]

There are 2 parts to this - your issues and her issues.  When it comes to your issues, I think it is important for the non to realize that they have issues to work on to make themselves a better spouse.  Your spouse may be 90% of the problem, but you can still work on your 10%.  Working on your 10% can set an example for your spouse that they will respect and be motivated to work on their 90%.

So on your issues, it is important to understand that BPD "facts" can often be false - it just reflects how they feel.  Her being afraid of you does not mean that you are a person who inspires fear, it just means that she is afraid.  I think it might be helpful to discuss with her actual situations where you made her afraid or performed poor behavior.  You can then replay in your mind that scenario and see if she has a valid point.  Even if she did, a person with BPD will probably magnify it, but you can still focus on the kernel of truth and try and address that.

[Hmcbart]

Thank you for talking to me. It has helped a lot. I'm mentally fried right now. I do feel like I was made out to be a monster with some of the things she said in MC. After my wife told her that she is afraid to ask me things or talk to me because of my reactions and the way I get (talking about anger), the T said it sounded like she didn't feel emotionally safe.

   

Can you take a break from thinking about all of this stuff? What is something that you like to do to recharge your batteries?

I was trying to take a break. Then I got a text asking if I could come by after work and pick up s8 while s12 worked on merit badges at the scout shop. (Previous dysregulation on this because when she mentioned it last week I told her I had to work the Saturday of this event. She blew up saying how I didn't think she had the ability to do anything and she wasn't asking me to do it, just letting me know about it)

I go by to pick up s8. I'm tired, mentally exhausted after this morning, have a headache from storm going on, and haven't eaten. It's was a trifecta + 1 of bad days. She makes a comment how her back is hurting. I ask if she slept wrong and she said it wasn't hurting this morning. I ask if she lifted something wrong and maybe pulled something and she said it was hurting before I left for work. I know she was fishing for me to stay with s12 so she could leave and or to say it was stress from MC this morning (didn't hurt before MC but before I left for work after MC = happened while sitting on couch during MC). I then offer that maybe she needs to call and get a dr appointment tomorrow and got no reply. I said bye and s8 and I headed home.

On drive home I get a text from her saying "you are not even caring anymore".  I tried to call back to offer to talk about this later when she gets home but she wouldn't answer the phone. After I got home I replied to text "I just got to the house. I tried to call you when I saw this. Can you help me understand why you would say this?"

I was trying to use SET but havnt gotten a response from her by call or text.

That's was my break from all this. Thanks for the hugs V I needed them.

[formflier]

 

Help me understand "why"... .sort of defeats... .the help me understand part.

Get rid of the why... .work on rephrase...

why is for the courtroom... .

FF

[Hmcbart]

Help me understand "why"... .sort of defeats... .the help me understand part.

Get rid of the why... .work on rephrase...

why is for the courtroom... .

FF

Not sure. I tried to rephrase it several ways but couldn't come up with anything that didn't sound like an accusation. Any ideas?

[formflier]

Help me understand "why"... .sort of defeats... .the help me understand part.

Get rid of the why... .work on rephrase...

why is for the courtroom... .

FF

Lot's of practice!

Not sure. I tried to rephrase it several ways but couldn't come up with anything that didn't sound like an accusation. Any ideas?

[waverider]

On drive home I get a text from her saying "you are not even caring anymore". 

She wants your support and empathy, to make a fuss of her, not a solution. To her that is palming it off to the doctor. She knows thats not the answer because it is probably imaginary anyway. She says you are not caring because you are not hearing it in the context that she is making the statement.

I think you are trying to find consistency and logic, where non exist, when trying to link all her statements into a whole picture. There is no whole picture, just conflicting fragments

[Hmcbart]

Like reading one chapter from 20 different books and trying to come up with an overall story.

[vortex of confusion]

On drive home I get a text from her saying "you are not even caring anymore".  I tried to call back to offer to talk about this later when she gets home but she wouldn't answer the phone. After I got home I replied to text "I just got to the house. I tried to call you when I saw this. Can you help me understand why you would say this?"

I am going to try to add a female perspective to this. Sure, BPD complicates things. At the same time, this seems to be a common complaint among women, especially when the relationship is strained.

Given everything that has been said and done, how could she NOT say it? On the flip side, haven't you indicated that you don't feel like she loves you either. I think I have seen you say that you don't have those warm fuzzy feelings either. How would you feel if somebody put you on the spot and asked you why you would say something like that? You could probably answer that question if asked by those of us on the forum. If your wife asked you that question, would you want to answer it honestly? Or, would you be afraid to answer it?

It is kind of like trying to read one chapter from 20 different books and trying to come up with an overall story. The problem is that it isn't really 20 different books. It is 20 different chapters from the same book and that book is your relationship.

It is difficult for me to explain. I think it helps to look at it from the angle, "Our relationship is in trouble. What can we do to work on it?" The bottom line is that it sounds like neither you nor your wife feel loved and supported in the relationship. You wife is probably feeling all of the same things that you are, only they are amplified. I am not saying that to get you to ignore your feelings or make excuses for her. I am saying it because it really helps to try to find ways for both of you to start working from the same book. It will still be very challenging because of the BPD stuff.

[Hmcbart]

I have been searching my heart and my mind to figure out what I feel. I have closed myself off so much as a defense that I'm not sure anymore. I know I love her but I need to figure out if I'm capable of lowering my walls enough to show it. Kind of like trying to reach out and pet an animal that may or may not bite you for it. You either slowly reach out with an open hand but ready to quickly pull it back or you just leave it alone and walk away.

I'm not trying to compare her to an animal just the fear of reaching out when you've been bitten a lot.

[vortex of confusion]

I have been searching my heart and my mind to figure out what I feel. I have closed myself off so much as a defense that I'm not sure anymore. I know I love her but I need to figure out if I'm capable of lowering my walls enough to show it. Kind of like trying to reach out and pet an animal that may or may not bite you for it. You either slowly reach out with an open hand but ready to quickly pull it back or you just leave it alone and walk away.

I'm not trying to compare her to an animal just the fear of reaching out when you've been bitten a lot.

I think I understand your point of view.  I have been there and I still am to some degree. I think that is why I keep responding to your posts. I can relate to what you are feeling as I have had some of the same confusion.

What would happen if you stopped worrying so much about how your wife feels? I know that sounds a bit counter intuitive. I have been working with a trauma coach and one of the things that I have been encouraged to do is to STOP worrying so much about my spouse and what he is thinking and feeling and doing and start worrying more about what I am thinking, feeling, and doing.

I have been complaining about my husband and talking about him. I have focused on him so much that I have forgotten that I am a person too. I have been so focused on the confusing messages that he is sending out that I haven't stopped to think about what I am feeling. I am saying this as much for myself as for you.

There was one point when my coach asked me how I feel about my spouse. She wanted an instant response and the first thing that came out of my mouth was, "I hate him." That scared me. I realize that I am all over the map because I have put up those same walls. The problem is that I had put those walls up for myself. I had walled myself off from myself. The more I let my walls down for me, the easier it is to not be as reactive and upset about what my husband is or isn't doing.

I hope what I wrote makes some kind of sense. It is a difficult process to explain and I am still in the middle of trying to figure it out.

[Hmcbart]

What you wrote makes so much sense it's scary.

I wrote this earlier today before I read your post. I do a lot of journal writing about my feelings.  It's my feelings put into words. Reading what you wrote, it seems similar, mines just longer  .

That was my turning point. That was the point when I started to build my walls. Each time after that when she couldn't follow through for what ever reason was not near as painful but the defenses on my walls were firing back also. I would open the gates and she would hit me with a reason why it wouldn't happen. I would quickly close the gates and begin firing at her with everything I had to defend myself. To defend the hurt I had allowed her to inflict. I kept opening the gates and she kept hurting me every time. Until finally I sealed the gates shut and just fired defensively anytime she came within distance of my walls. No entrance was allowed and just approaching would set off an automatic defensive reaction that would try to inflict hurt into her before she could do it to me.

Now my gates have been closed for so long and my defenses have been on alert for so long that I don't know any other way to live. I terrified to let her back through the gates. I'm scared to leave the safety of my walls to meat and talk to her. To find a middle ground and move forward with each other. She has always struggled with getting too close to me anyway. So when I built my walls and fired when she got close she would just stay away. She was always happier staying away anyhow. I would ask her to come closer after that but she came armed and ready to fight so I would lock the gates again and begin firing back.

I don't know if I can open the gates to her anymore.

[vortex of confusion]

I don't know if I can open the gates to her anymore.

Can you open the gates to YOU?

Think about that. Take her out of the equation for a minute. Can YOU let yourself feel stuff? Can you embrace the confusion that YOU are feeling?

I posted a thread on the Personal Inventory forum about trying to connect my head and my heart. I feel like the walls that I put up have prevented me from really connecting with what is going on.

[Hmcbart]

I think that's what my T is wanting from me. He said last time that I can tell him all about events that have happened and the nuts and bolts of things but I never talk about how it made me feel. What my emotions were at the time of the event and what I was feeling.

I didn't realize how closed off I have become to my feelings. First him and now you. I think we are in to something. The most difficult part is me. I don't want to feel the way I felt when things happened. I remember how it felt and I don't want that feeling. I'm scared to death of those feelings because they have never done anything but caused more hurt. Every time I try to think about it I stop, maybe it's subconscious but my brain just interrupts and says nope, we are doing that again. My defense mechanism is to make a joke or laugh about it to get it away. I know that but I'm not where I can remove that defense yet. It's sad that I know what I need to do but can't seem to be able to do it.

[vortex of confusion]

I think that's what my T is wanting from me. He said last time that I can tell him all about events that have happened and the nuts and bolts of things but I never talk about how it made me feel. What my emotions were at the time of the event and what I was feeling.

I laughed when I read this. I can do the same thing. I can also tell you what I think I should have felt and why I should have felt it.

"I shouldn't have been upset because I allowed him to do it."

"I shouldn't have been hurt because it was my fault. I shouldn't have given in and said yes."

"It is my fault because blah, blah, blah. If I could have figured out how to be a better spouse, then we wouldn't be in this mess. Tell me how to be a better spouse."

I didn't realize how closed off I have become to my feelings. First him and now you. I think we are in to something. The most difficult part is me. I don't want to feel the way I felt when things happened. I remember how it felt and I don't want that feeling. I'm scared to death of those feelings because they have never done anything but caused more hurt. Every time I try to think about it I stop, maybe it's subconscious but my brain just interrupts and says nope, we are doing that again. My defense mechanism is to make a joke or laugh about it to get it away. I know that but I'm not where I can remove that defense yet. It's sad that I know what I need to do but can't seem to be able to do it.

I am right there with you on this! The last phone session I had, I was asked if I had finished reading a book that I was supposed to read. I rushed through the first half of the book with gusto. Then, it started sitting in and I started feeling stuff. I got scared and put the book down. I told her that I am still working on reading it but had to put it down because it was too overwhelming. There was something else that she asked about. At one point, she told me, "You will do pretty much anything to keep your feelings at bay. You seem to be really, really good at that."

[waverider]

If you show you feelings by lighting a candle it creates many shadows, wherein lies suspicion and mistrust. If you show your feelings by putting on the house lights, there are no shadows and it is clear there is nothing lurking to trigger suspicion and defensiveness.

Being afraid of having your fingers burnt means you don't commit and end up being torched as a consequence.

pwBPD fear what they dont know, whether real or imagined. Leave nothing for their imagination to mull over.

Fear leads to attack and devaluation

[vortex of confusion]

If you show you feelings by lighting a candle it creates many shadows, wherein lies suspicion and mistrust. If you show your feelings by putting on the house lights, there are no shadows and it is clear there is nothing lurking to trigger suspicion and defensiveness.

Being afraid of having your fingers burnt means you don't commit and end up being torched as a consequence.

pwBPD fear what they dont know, whether real or imagined. Leave nothing for their imagination to mull over.

Fear leads to attack and devaluation

I am not quite sure I understand this. I think I do but. . .

I think what waverider is saying might be the reason that my husband has been responding more positively to me.

It has been an ongoing process but somewhere along the way I quit asking him as many questions. And, I think I started being more honest and telling him flat out, "I don't understand you. I hear what you are saying but I don't really get it and that is okay." I don't need to understand him to see that he is in pain or is frustrated. I am in pain and am frustrated too. Instead of getting into a pissing match, I tried to redirect things so that what I was saying to him was more in alignment with the actual situation. I have said things like, "Let's forget about the lovey dovey stuff. You are my husband and I choose to be with you. Yes, I might be mad at you and hate you from time to time. That isn't going to change the fact that you are the father of our children and I choose to be with you. Period." I think that may have set the tone to allow both of us to be more real. In essence, I turned the overhead lights on rather than what I had been doing which was trying to operate by candlelight.

[Hmcbart]

by showing my feelings with candlelight I'm not showing everything but I'm also not seeing everything. I'm scared of how I will feel reliving the pain of those feelings so I keep them in the dark. I will continue to fear them because I haven't turned on the lights and dealt with them.

I think I get what your saying but the difficult part is finding that light switch. It's been too dark for so long it's hard to remember where it is and how to turn it on. Unfortunate it's not as easy as just saying "oh, there it is!", then have a good cry and move on. Every time I try to think about it, as soon as I feel it I shut it off again. I know they're in there because I can tell when they are surfacing. I just won't let it surface.

[waverider]

by showing my feelings with candlelight I'm not showing everything but I'm also not seeing everything. I'm scared of how I will feel reliving the pain of those feelings so I keep them in the dark. I will continue to fear them because I haven't turned on the lights and dealt with them.

I think I get what your saying but the difficult part is finding that light switch. It's been too dark for so long it's hard to remember where it is and how to turn it on. Unfortunate it's not as easy as just saying "oh, there it is!", then have a good cry and move on. Every time I try to think about it, as soon as I feel it I shut it off again. I know they're in there because I can tell when they are surfacing. I just won't let it surface.

It sure is hard, like everything when dealing with personality traits and behaviors it needs to evolve. Changing overnight feels and sounds fake.

Suspicion and insecurity are foundations of BPD. seeing part of something but not being able to trust that they can see everything leaves a pwBPD on jumpy ground. All or nothing is their need. if you hold back telling them something they will not hear so much what you are saying as they will be concentrating on what you are potentially holding back.

White lies and half truths will cause you grief if you are not careful

[vortex of confusion]

Yeah, you can find the light switch. The problem is that the wires have been cut and you need to rewire it before you can flip it.  That takes time.

Even if you can't open up, you can open up about not being able to open up. It is difficult to explain.

[gomez_addams]

Man, our last round of MC was some of the worst days of my life.

I know how tough, confusing, and exhausting MC with a BPD partner can be.

Gomez

[Stalwart]

Hey HMCbart:

Sorry I’m a bit late jumping in on this thread. I’ve been away but I’ve really been thinking about everything you’ve stated about your current situation, your feelings and your interpretations of her feelings and status in your relationship.

Please don’t take any offense to what I have to say because I mean none. Sometimes it so much easier to sit back a view the entire picture than it is to be personally involved and so focused on snapshots of it.

I’ve spent so much time in the past three years conversing and reading ‘rationalizations’ of people affected with BPD (especially women because they blog more.) that it’s become a second nature to be able to put myself in their positions and see from their perspectives in so many situations. I gives you a bit different insight into situations some times.

It just so feels to me reading through all of this that both you and your wife have become in such a state of stalemate that there just aren’t options or opportunities for either of you to consider a change of plan or a move that can be made. It seems you’re both just digging deeper into the same rut and the deeper it goes the darker it becomes with no ability for any light to shine on it.

I can so understand your side in the situation, your past experiences  and particularly your present set of mind, “The only conclusion my brain keeps coming to is that she hasn't loved me in a very long time and just hasn't had the ability to leave me yet. “ I can honestly say that there’s every possibility that she may well feel the same way you do when you said “I do love her and want to find a way to be together as husband and wife.” The problem is you’ve both shut the door and any channel of being able to do that , so I’d like to just look at a couple of your thoughts that contribute to that because in knowing and recognizing it rises to every hope that you can also understand there are better ways for both of you. “She will say that she loves me and wants to be married to me but all of these things just keep hitting me in the head.” Sometimes when things are hitting us square in the face it’s so we recognize them.

Let me ask you to think from her perspective of dealing with the current situation. The T asks you in front of her why you’re married to her and you state “I answered because of the kids.” Hmc can you imagine for a minute (considering all the factoring that drives the thinking behind BPD) just how hurtful, damaging, and desperately that must affect her and totally inhibit her ability to open up to any new opportunities for improvement. Honestly this isn’t about hammering, blaming or implying guilt my friend, it’s only about recognition. You say: “Add to this the fact that there has been no real physical intimacy, no intimate conversation, very minimal affection for a pretty good while.” Really my friend. After telling her the only physical, emotional or spiritual attachment you have to her is the fact you need to be there for the kids and you’re not there connected to her at all? I can imagine that really affects her and affects her want to even consider a closeness and especially not an intimacy.

Consider the differences in what you’re communicating and how the two of you are. She say “She will say that she loves me and wants to be married to me” and those are just not being met with the same wants when you speak in relation to them from your perspective of your relationship to her.

I can so imagine how inwardly she is hurt by the recognition of how both of your relationship has slid. Does she feel trapped without options because she is “stay at home” and her family support is out of reach? I’m sure she does.  I can also imagine she doesn’t want to live in the place you both are any more than you do.

I know how easy after all the problems and effects of them it is to fall into the rut, how dark that becomes and in doing so how we can make it so much worse with little opportunity for better when what we really want is better. Sometimes we are both so embroiled in dealing with the problem the problem becomes about one vs. the other. When the only solutions that can found is when you are able to both climb free of the rut and partner up to have it becomes you and her against the problem.

Living in the past problems stagnates the ability to wake up tomorrow and it’s hard to break free of them and make a better way forward. But it is so possible for you to stand up and do that when it’s so evident in both of your statements that there is want to do that. It takes one of you to make that change for both of you and start the way forward.

[waverider]

I know how easy after all the problems and effects of them it is to fall into the rut, how dark that becomes and in doing so how we can make it so much worse with little opportunity for better when what we really want is better. Sometimes we are both so embroiled in dealing with the problem the problem becomes about one vs. the other. When the only solutions that can found is when you are able to both climb free of the rut and partner up to have it becomes you and her against the problem.

After years of living a life of emotional trench warfare lobbing blame bombs at each other it is a scary thing to do to climb out of that trench. Your entire perspective of progress has been stunted for far too long. You just hang on for survival instead.

It is no easy thing to do.

Unfortunately nothing changes without change and they only one equipped to initiate that is you.

[Stalwart]

It is no easy thing to do.

Unfortunately nothing changes without change and they only one equipped to initiate that is you.

Just gotta sit back take all that in Waverider and love it. Well put.

Opening up, maybe taking some of the responsibility to start a new path go down is really tough and we all know how scary it is. Fact is vulnerability is frightening. As frightening as it is for you Hmc I can say one thing for certain it is ten times more frightening after the foray for your wife. As much as your past barrages have wounded you they have probably entirely crippled her from being vulnerable enough to move forward.

From what you say here Hmc about your wants and from what you say about your wife's positive statements and can read into her ones that might seem callous or emotionless there is want on both sides my friend.

BPD or not there is one indisputable truth to both relationships and life. The only permanence arranged within our lives is constant change - it's our ability to embrace that change and use it to change our situations that will define our successes or our failures.

The soul-searching question to counter the fears are all about want and do you want your life to change enough to have the courage to stand up, put the past behind you and challenge a better future. If you lead she will slowly follow through the door you've opened. Yes, it is really hard to do and takes real concerted effort, persistence and determination but nothing worth changing or achieving is ever achieved without risk and taking the first step forward. There are no greater rewards than finding a harmony together and better lives together.

I know it all sounds easy when you key it out at 70 wpm. It's not - but it is achievable. A lot to rebuild due to the past but it is achievable. It has to come down to wanting it enough to start to try and achieve it and the rest will follow suit. It takes a plan and determination, determination enough to ride the bumps while they level out on the path.

Re-read your own posts. She does value you, want you and wants to love you. You just need to let her by first remembering how to love her, value her, support her with more than an income, support her with respect and love and lead the way.

Regardless I'm glad you've undertaken the therapy. If for no other reason it's made you realize just what wants you really do still have and hear the wants she has and that's got to be a good  thing Hmc.

[formflier]

 

HMC,

Keep up the hard work... .been a bit out of pocket for a while... .hope you and your wife are able to communicate.

FF