Afraid of relapsing after fallout with BPD best friend

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I've been best friends with uBPDfriend (let's call him Mark) for many years, we've been close and with so much in common, with happy memories and future plans, and we've been always supportive to each other, and helped me go through grief and chronic depression. Thanks to him I kept myself from doing something stupid and seriously self harming. He'd always say that he's gay and that the thought of being with a woman kind of weirds him out. But that didn't matter, because I always loved him as a friend. A couple of years ago, he introduces me to another, even older friend of his, Luke.

We'd hang out together, the three of us, and me and Luke became good friends. But we'd spend time all three or with Mark and other friends included, never just me and Luke. I felt it was unfair of me to be alone with Mark 90% of the time, so I started hanging out with Luke as well. I always felt reluctant doing this with any friend, because Mark would throw jealous comments (like jokingly saying he wants to lock me in his house for me to only spend time with him, that he's holding back from snapping at another friend for complimenting me etc). But I figured I was just being paranoid and it was mostly his joking ways of showing affection.

I thought I was right, since nothing happened while I started talking to Luke separately too (while also doing so with all three of us and with Mark separately as usual). But one day he called me shouting that he's mad and depressed and feeling neglected. He went on a lengthy rant on how everybody abandons him and now I am doing it too. I'd keep responding to him in a panic, to which he'd reply with dry 'bye's). Not having any other close friends, I told Luke, saying how guilty I feel for making him feel like this. Luke assured me that Mark won't leave me and that he does get jealous and that he knows from experience. Turns out Luke would get the same rants whenever he'd hang out with others than Mark in the past. So he called him, told him to knock it off and apologize to me. They had a big argument, but Luke convinced him to talk to me and to apologize. I apologized as well, feeling that I was at fault still. After a bit, we all went back to normal.

But I was left shaken up, that being the first time ever he ever blew at me with rage this way. I got even more tense at still talking with Luke, but I needed to talk to someone who apparently had this experience with Mark several times before. He assured me that I did nothing wrong, and I thanked him for reconciling us. The next several months I grew closer to him, while always making sure Mark was my priority.

After a year of friendship, me and Luke decided to start dating, and we immediately went to tell Mark. Mark reacted with full blown rage, for "going behind his back", accusing me of not having been as warm as I used to, of Luke avoiding him (he admitted so, after that incident with me, but still kept helping Mark with work and kept chatting) and that he wants to cut off contact. He said he had a crush on me, but never said so because he was "waiting for the right time". That came as the second shock to me. He then admitted that he had liked other girls before. Mark claimed that Luke knew about the crush, from what he had told him when he first got mad. Luke repeated that this was not how he saw it, he saw it as Mark's usual jealousy fits when he'd go and get close to other people than him. Luke offered to come over Mark's house to talk, Mark told him not to or he'll probably beat Luke up, and Luke -very upset about that- stopped engaging, leaving me to decide.

I said that I'm dating Luke and that's that, but that I really love Mark and want us to be remain friends and made it clear that I love him platonically and don't want to give him any false hope. Mark called Luke a fake friend, but one that he used to have a thing for (another new reveal for us both) because whenever he got jealous, Luke would "comfort my abandonment fears and make me feel loads better".  But eventually Luke "changed into doing that thing of disregarding my feelings and telling me that whoever he's close to is none of my business". Mark kept on telling us that real friends don't hide friendships from other friends and he called Luke nasty names. For a week straight he was telling me he's been thinking of cutting off ties with me, because "everyone abandons me anyway, might as well do the pushing away first". I stuck around despite that, asking him to reconsider. I promised to still keep talking to him after he calms down, but after another incident of him saying again that I'm no friend, I broke my promise and I stopped replying back. Soon, he starts telling me that he really wants our friendship back, but not with Luke, and he's begging me to talk to him again.

Luke is absolutely done. He's really hurting for losing his own long time friend, feeling like he's being pushed into dirt by him too long, and feeling also that I'm taking my friend's side way too much compared to defending my boyfriend. Mark is also hurting, saying he's been self harming, feels abandoned by me. And I've been a crying, staving, overworked mess all around for so long from this, feeling like both the worst friend and girlfriend.

[once removed]

hey hidden and welcome to bpdfamily. im sorry youre going through this, its tough and confusing stuff  

you know by now, that pwBPD have an intense fear of abandonment, real or perceived, and right now, "mark" may feel as if his worst fears have come true.

"everyone abandons me anyway, might as well do the pushing away first"

people with BPD also have trouble seeing grey areas when it comes to other people. "black and white thinking" is common. so while his attitude may not make sense to you, it is his reality, and thats not likely to change.

it sounds like there is triangulation going on. these resources may be very useful to your situation:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

hang in there, and keep posting. youve come to the right place. we are here to help  

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hey hidden and welcome to bpdfamily. im sorry youre going through this, its tough and confusing stuff  

you know by now, that pwBPD have an intense fear of abandonment, real or perceived, and right now, "mark" may feel as if his worst fears have come true.

"everyone abandons me anyway, might as well do the pushing away first"

people with BPD also have trouble seeing grey areas when it comes to other people. "black and white thinking" is common. so while his attitude may not make sense to you, it is his reality, and thats not likely to change.

Thank you very much, I'm trying to hang in there and not lose my significant other in the process. I'm still feeling intense amounts of guilt and keep on berating myself for hurting both of them and for losing my best friend... .

During this fallout, both me and my SO went to see different counselors, and both of them told us that uBPD friend is displaying BPD symptoms (note that he said to us that he's been screened before and only diagnosed with ADHD and depression). My own therapist told me that he's emotionally manipulative, and when I asked her if there's any way for a BPD sufferer to get better, she shook her head sadly... .

Something that kind of confuses me is that BPDfriend has been trying to get me back to his life after I stopped replying, while I see that most people here had their BPDexes doing the cutting off and wanting NC. It seems like the opposite, here... .

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Also uBPDfriend's birthday is soon, which is making me tempted to break NC. I think I need it for closure some day... .but I don't know if I should at all now. I miss him but I also don't want the rollercoaster of emotions that will come with it, plus nonBPDbf will be furious if I did... .

[once removed]

hey hidden,

a few notes:

"My own therapist told me that he's emotionally manipulative, and when I asked her if there's any way for a BPD sufferer to get better, she shook her head sadly... ."

im pretty skeptical of that statement. there are many ways for a pwBPD to "get better" depending on your definition of "better".

it would be accurate to say you, yourself, cannot make him better, although tools do help improve the relationship, however:

"plus nonBPDbf will be furious if I did... ."

in what sense do you think hed be furious? furious at you for his perceived interruption of your recovery, or furious out of jealousy? i think thats an important question to answer here.

"Something that kind of confuses me is that BPDfriend has been trying to get me back to his life after I stopped replying, while I see that most people here had their BPDexes doing the cutting off and wanting NC. It seems like the opposite, here... ."

pwBPD are not one size fits all, and results may vary. there are plenty of stories on this board that relate to your experience. as you know, a pwBPD fears abandonment, and this pwBPD may feel as if his worst fears have been confirmed. it is VERY much your choice not to continue the relationship, and that may be what is best, but it may help your question, and its also important to explore what has led you to this decision; is it due to your romantic partners demands? what do you want to do?

[Turkish]

Also uBPDfriend's birthday is soon, which is making me tempted to break NC. I think I need it for closure some day... .but I don't know if I should at all now. I miss him but I also don't want the rollercoaster of emotions that will come with it, plus nonBPDbf will be furious if I did... .

Firstly, evaluate what's best for you and trust your gut. Secondly,.what's your primary r/s at this point. With your bf, no? That doesn't mean, however, that you should necessarily let his feelings control yours. What do you think is best for you, regardless of the other guys? What's healthy?

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im pretty skeptical of that statement. there are many ways for a pwBPD to "get better" depending on your definition of "better". some symptoms remit with age. some symptoms remit with treatment.

My apologies, my therapist meant that it's very hard and takes long for people like by best friend who deny that they have done no wrong.

I told the therapist about my best friend asking me "what is wrong with me, I will do anything to fix myself and stop hurting everybody!", and that my response to that was to pull up a list of free counselors and clinics and telling him to get at least a screening there. He instead spoke to friends and people online about the issue, and responded with being offended for me insisting on setting professional meetings instead. So, my therapist said that my friend doesn't actually want to change, and thus his case is extra difficult.

in what sense do you think hed be furious? furious at you for his perceived interruption of your recovery, or furious out of jealousy? i think thats an important question to answer here.

Not much jealousy as much as wanting to be still be close to someone who has been so abusive to him. He actually tried to be civil and helpful with BPDfriend for months after the second fallout, for the sake of me not losing my best friend. The stress from that had him puke blood at one point and had to take him to the hospital. But the way BPDfriend kept on acting and making me cry and pushing my partner in the mud from his jealousy fits made my partner decide to cut off ties forever.

I thought about that from his POV, how would I feel if my SO wanted to be best buds with someone who emotionally bullied me?

Another thing I did not mention is that while I kept NC with him but kept on talking to our mutual friends, BPDfriend told them to stop talking to me. And they did. They never got to hear my side, because I never wanted to drag them into the drama. I offered to share my side, but they heard such terrible things about me apparently that they refused to hear it.

[once removed]

"my therapist meant that it's very hard and takes long for people like by best friend who deny that they have done no wrong."

okay, that clears it up. thats right. a person has to both know theres a problem and want help.

i think it was a good move on your part to offer the counselors and clinics, its too bad he didnt take you up on that advice, and im sorry he turned your offer against you, but it highlights the point. seeking help is a unique and individual process. his case certainly sounds difficult.

"Not much jealousy as much as wanting to be still be close to someone who has been so abusive to him. He actually tried to be civil and helpful with BPDfriend for months after the second fallout, for the sake of me not losing my best friend. The stress from that had him puke blood at one point and had to take him to the hospital. But the way BPDfriend kept on acting and making me cry and pushing my partner in the mud from his jealousy fits made my partner decide to cut off ties forever. "

"I thought about that from his POV, how would I feel if my SO wanted to be best buds with someone who emotionally bullied me?"

turkish asked you some great questions about this. lets not forget that it wasnt just your SO, but you, who was on the receiving end of some of this behavior. trying to put myself in his shoes, would it bug me? sure. but i dont think it would be my call to make. id simply not want to be involved, however, its not clear to me, do you think your SO thinks that you choosing to have contact with the friend would endanger him? thats a fair consideration.

im sorry to hear youve lost friends over this. unfortunately we cant always control what others choose to believe. maybe it will become clearer to them down the line, maybe it wont. mutual friends tend to feel forced to take sides. i lost a few myself. it sucks. if theres a silver lining its that it forces us to focus our energy toward ourselves and our recovery.

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Also uBPDfriend's birthday is soon, which is making me tempted to break NC. I think I need it for closure some day... .but I don't know if I should at all now. I miss him but I also don't want the rollercoaster of emotions that will come with it, plus nonBPDbf will be furious if I did... .

Firstly, evaluate what's best for you and trust your gut. Secondly,.what's your primary r/s at this point. With your bf, no? That doesn't mean, however, that you should necessarily let his feelings control yours. What do you think is best for you, regardless of the other guys? What's healthy?

Thank you for replying and I'm sorry sorry I forgot to answer you too.

My gut says that given what choice I've made that took me to this point, contacting him will bring drama and hurt that has taken me almost a year of healing to come into terms with. My heart also misses him and wants closure with contact.

Yes my primary r/s i with my boyfriend. I think bringing this up will be unhealthy to the both of us.

turkish asked you some great questions about this. lets not forget that it wasnt just your SO, but you, who was on the receiving end of some of this behavior. trying to put myself in his shoes, would it bug me? sure. but i dont think it would be my call to make. id simply not want to be involved, however, its not clear to me, do you think your SO thinks that you choosing to have contact with the friend would endanger him?thats a fair consideration.

Endanger my SO as in physically? Or that my BPDexfriend will take me away? For the former, a reason why my SO never will meet him again is due to physical threats, and my BPDexfriend is way stronger and with violent outbursts. For the latter, my SO knows well that I have zero attraction for him, and he's cool with my ex (with who I still am friends with), he's really not a jealous person. That's not the reason why he objects, it's the feeling of betrayal. Like this quote: "If your friend is being abused and harassed... .and you want to play it “neutral” and continue being pals with people who are actively hurting them, then you aren't a friend you are a piece of ***."

[once removed]

good answers!

i think, most importantly, you have said your gut tells you that contacting him will bring drama and hurt, and youd prefer not to go backwards. i can understand wanting closure. have you thought about writing out what you would like to say, but not sending it? that has helped many members in obtaining a sense of closure.

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good answers!

i think, most importantly, you have said your gut tells you that contacting him will bring drama and hurt, and youd prefer not to go backwards. i can understand wanting closure. have you thought about writing out what you would like to say, but not sending it? that has helped many members in obtaining a sense of closure.

His birthday is the next day and the urge to e-stalk is so strong. Afraid that he finally has blocked me back, which is irrational to feel. I do want to write something I'll probably never send, it sounds like a good idea an thank you, but I;m scared my SO will find it and assume I am writing him behind his back... .

[once removed]

cant you just let him know about your plan?