Xh wants two weeks for his vacation

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have two teens S and D.  Court order for vacation schedule is two non consecutive weeks . Odd years I pick weeks first if no agreementApril Is the deadline for putting th weeks on the calendar.

Back then xh says , in email,

That in order to make it easier on the kids and our hectic schedules , "we 3" ( he and kids) want two weeks in a row and he allows me to do the same. 

I had replied back asking him what his two weeks are he wants. And said that if he has two weeks this this year then it doesn't mean every year for him . That his saying I can have two weeks also it doesn't mean it's ok.

No response back.

I gave him my two weeks ,or really one, I cannot get two weeks in a row. He know that.

I emailed again just recently... .end of June and I don't know his summer plans.

( I need to schedule some medial appts too for kids)

He says he doesn't know yet but , " we 3" will let you know soon. ( he uses the "we 3" often in correspondence)

I had asked D if dad has mentioned anything about their vacation. She says no. But I overheard her say to him that we start school then the very next day.  I didn't pry so I don't know what for sure she was refering to.

My question is is it a big deal, ( lack of wording)  to let him have his two weeks or not to. Should I just let it go . Kids being teens have more right to say what they want ( heard from L few months ago during settlement process).

I read that some schedules in summer are split so what it's like to not see kids for that extended time knowing they are with the disordered parent.  Maybe kids would actually miss me for once being that long of a time? 

Can I respond asking him why he can't just follow court order?

In past and I see it in me still now, he is relentless and I give in to avoid conflict.

[whirlpoollife]

I have two teens S and D.  Court order for vacation schedule is two non consecutive weeks . Odd years I pick weeks first if no agreementApril Is the deadline for putting th weeks on the calendar.

Back then xh says , in email,

That in order to make it easier on the kids and our hectic schedules , "we 3" ( he and kids) want two weeks in a row and he allows me to do the same. 

I had replied back asking him what his two weeks are he wants. And said that if he has two weeks this this year then it doesn't mean every year for him . That his saying I can have two weeks also it doesn't mean it's ok.

No response back.

I gave him my two weeks ,or really one, I cannot get two weeks in a row. He know that.

I emailed again just recently... .end of June and I don't know his summer plans.

( I need to schedule some medial appts too for kids)

He says he doesn't know yet but , " we 3" will let you know soon. ( he uses the "we 3" often in correspondence)

I had asked D if dad has mentioned anything about their vacation. She says no. But I overheard her say to him that we start school then the very next day.  I didn't pry so I don't know what for sure she was refering to.

My question is is it a big deal, ( lack of wording)  to let him have his two weeks or not to. Should I just let it go . Kids being teens have more right to say what they want ( heard from L few months ago during settlement process).

I read that some schedules in summer are split so what it's like to not see kids for that extended time knowing they are with the disordered parent.  Maybe kids would actually miss me for once being that long of a time? 

Can I respond asking him why he can't just follow court order?

In past and I see it in me still now, he is relentless and I give in to avoid conflict.

[HopefulDad]

It seems like the process is working.  You have a court order that defines the default (two non-consecutive one-week vacations) so anything that alters that has to be in joint agreement.  He's asking for that joint agreement, offering something in return (despite your inability to take two consecutive vacation weeks).

If I were in your shoes, I would let him take the kids for two weeks.  Since he's asking you to go along with this, you can ask for something else in return that suits you better.  Maybe you go along with it for something simple like he must nail down the dates by the end of June so you can plan those doctor appts.  Or maybe you go along with it if he gives you his Thanksgiving this year.

[livednlearned]

These are hard issues, I feel for you. In a normal divorce, this would not create conflict.

I think it comes down to your values, and what this means to you. Do you want to go two weeks without seeing the kids? Honestly, as teens, they are probably a little ambivalent either way. If they had strong feelings, you would've heard by now. Try to set aside the conflict avoidance -- not easy, but try to set it aside. How do you feel about going that long without having them?

I would miss S13 a lot if I didn't see him for 2 weeks. If he was traveling for cultural exchange through school or doing some kind of sleep away camp, it would be kinda tough for me, I'd have to suck it up and adjust. If it was something important to him, something he felt strongly about, I could set my feelings aside.

The other angle way to look at it is symbolic. What message do you want to send the kids? There is no right answer.

Focusing on them: "If this is important to you, then ok."

Or alternatively,

Taking care of yourself: "I don't like to go that long without seeing you. If there was something meaningful to you, maybe. It sounds like it's about making things convenient. That's not reason enough, let's stick with one week."

[ForeverDad]

A two week vacation is, on its face, not unconscionable.  My county defaults to 3 weeks vacation each year with a 2 week limit for any one vacation.  That is helpful, for example, if the vacation is far away.  I've gone on vacations to the Rockies.  That's 2 days of solid driving.  If I was limited to 1 week or perhaps 9 days Sat to the following Sunday, I would spend 4 days traveling and 3-5 days vacationing.  (Assuming the car doesn't break down.  On one vacation it did break down on me 150 miles from home which delayed me over a day.)  So part of the equation is whether a longer vacation relieves a real issue - or is essentially just undermining you or yanking your chain.

That said, there must be a reason why the order states vacations are only one week.  Who advocated for that?  As mentioned here, the kids are older and it's not like they're toddlers totally at the unmonitored mercy of a problem parent.  So that clouds the moral clarity, doesn't it?  If it does end up in court, what sort of consequences would he face?

Whatever else, if you do allow an exception, make sure it gets documented.  Make sure it is clear whether it is a one-time exception.  Make sure too that either you get equal rights for similar notice in the future or you trade it for some other parenting benefit.  He may howl and cry, but if it is not in he order then you have a certain mount of Leverage, while a Deal is not required, a Deal is not unethical, just don't Gift it away.

Be aware that if he goes ahead and violates the terms of the order without your agreement, afterward you can file for Contempt of Court.  However until you have multiple repeated issues to bring to the court's attention, it may be more like getting a parking ticket for him, until enough accumulate.

[whirlpoollife]

The GAL, judge and L's ruled the non consecutive two weeks. I don't remember having any say in  it or I just agreed. I really don't know or remember. A couple years ago  I went along with so much that was told to me.

If this was dealing with a non power and non controling  , non PA , xh, I would not have an issue .

But his two weeks can turn into three weeks as he stragictly plans it. 

As of yet I do not know what weeks he is wanting to take or where.

I appreciate the help and perspectives and take it to heart.

[ForeverDad]

This is a relatively new order, right?  Probably best not to dump its protections so soon.  If they did that then don't weaken their efforts.  Why do I use the word 'protections'?

Don't let others make their problems your problems.  A long time ago when I was younger I worked as a lobby receptionist at a large hotel.  Passersby would come in to take a look around.  Sometimes people would come in and try to guilt me into letting them use a restroom.  Sometimes even with kids hopping around desperate for, um, relief.  I said the bathrooms were in the rooms.  Sometimes they said, "Then where do you go?"  And I replied, ":)ownstairs, in the basement, in a locked area.  Please, there are restaurants across the street and down the block."  Firm boundaries... .and redirection.

You did well to default to the order.  Let it be a support for you, lean on it, well, especially when it works out in your favor.   Don't let them catch you off guard and guilt or pressure your firm (but reasonable) boundaries.

I have a history of confrontations at exchanges, not me of course, my ex.  So when my latest order said summer would remain equal time with the 2-2-5-5 schedule I wanted to object that it would be easier for 7-7.  My lawyer nixed that, he said, "Do you want the court to think that you're okay with ex having longer visits with your son?  After all we did to document her parenting issues and the magistrate actually wrote about her 'disparagement' of you?"

So you did well to stick to the order.  While you don't have to always do it, there will always be exceptions in life, but understand well that the more exceptions you allow - or enable - the more pressure there will be for more and more.

So don't let ex cast you as the bad obstructive character.  It's him.  He's pushing a boundary, the new order.

Would his vacation not work with only a week?  How much is it him choosing the wrong type of vacation (length) rather than a fault of the order?  If you really feel pressured, shift the 'blame' onto the ones who built the order, the GAL, judge and lawyers.  Can you refer his notice/request along with your valid reservations that you feel he's already dismantling the order to the GAL for comment?

[whirlpoollife]

Custody order is two years old. (Financial property settlement was recent this year, his appeal to his modification of  support order is future... .just to give some insight of possible triggers)

Last year he had first pick of weeks. It got so late to hear what he wanted, that my L said to go ahead and plan my weeks. When I did , right away xh told me the weeks he wanted .

When we were married, he had a habit of sabatoging the one week to see my family.

There have been exceptions, because I live in his family's town, there are parties, events, etc for them all the time.  I let the kids go and I do document it.

[livednlearned]

It sounds like your gut is telling you to say no to the two consecutive weeks. Is that how you're leaning?

[Panda39]

I would stick to the order based on experience with my SO's uBPDxw give an inch she takes a mile.  I think summer is a rough time for many of us... .perpetually waiting for someone with BPD to make a decision and stick to it. 

Document all of his stalling and equivocating and schedule the 2 weeks you want since per your court order you have first choice.  Use one for the fun stuff and one for the doctors appointments.  If there are 2 consecutive weeks available then let him have them or not depending on how comfortable you are doing that.  I think he is pushing boundaries too.

[whirlpoollife]

He answered with a question. ( this is part of his personality to never answer even the most simplest questions but to ask a question in return. )  He asked ,  "yes or no for our back to back weeks?"

So I answered that I want to see if the two back to back weeks that he wants would turn into three weeks being he has three four day weekends ( a month).

And said that I need to make appoinments for kids and I do not want them to conflict with his vacations.

( I would of just let the appointments out but this documents it a bit. I went ahead and made them anyhow. )

Appts for kids are on my days. S has a busy schedule this summer so I have to fit them in around that too. But using a vacation week for some is a good idea, wish I had the smarts to think of that a couple months ago.

Gut feeling... .it is hard to pinpoint it... .court orders... .darned if I follow them to him, darned if I don't follow them for him.

Kids are older. Couple years ago I could not have mentally made it two weeks without  contact  with the kids.  Now I can stay very busy all day to aliviate the seperation.

[ForeverDad]

So I answered that I want to see if the two back to back weeks that he wants would turn into three weeks being he has three four day weekends ( a month).

And said that I need to make appointments for kids and I do not want them to conflict with his vacations.

My gut feeling... .Don't ask, tell.  Since I doubt he gets 3 four-day weekends in a row, then you should be able to safely state the expected limit, not (weakly) ask whether he will limit himself to 2 weeks.  No knowing which weekends he has, I can't comment on specifics.  But it would seem to me that if structured smartly he would make a one week vacation become 10-11 days if he used two of his weekends at each end.  And a two week vacation, if allowed to extend beyond 2x7=14 days, could become 17-18 days.  So, what are YOU comfortable with?  What will not come back to bite you in the butt later?

My point is that you are allowed to - and must - have firm boundaries, to have a spine, to resist unreasonable guilting.  If the order is one week at a time, then YOU control how much additional time, if any, you allow.  Likely he knows you are used to second guessing yourself and that if he keeps doing his passive-aggressive tactics that you'll likely give in again.  Have you gotten any thoughts or theoretical opinions from your lawyer or GAL?

Also, why can't you take a similar vacation?  What limits you to one week while he is able to take more?  No, ignore employment issues.  Think about part of your longer vacation being a stay-cation - children are with you but you're still working as needed.   Why can't you state from a position of strength, "Okay, for this year only I will agree to a combined two week vacation.  However, that would mean we both get two week vacations.  Be aware that for my vacation we may not be out of town for the entire vacation but the vacation rules still apply even while I'm in town.  In addition, our children may have appointments at other times during the summer and I will be taking them regardless which parent's scheduled time it is."

Can you do that?  Can you incorporate those concepts - as empowered parent and using stay-cation option - into future contact?