Are BPD's quitters?

[Kelli Cornett]

It seems like they never really try. Never try to make an honest connection. Don't try to have boundaries. Don't try to be healthy with sex. Don't try to normally emotionally attach.

Than when the (non) stands back ( cause who can take this forever) they go " you left me "


When really they were leaving us the whole time. Than they want the " attachment " after the bridge is beyond burned.


But mostly I feel they are careless with their lives at times. They let people slip away from them. They quit.

 

You know?

[rotiroti]

I think it's a good observation to see that they are incapable of building a healthy connection and life style. With that said,  I like to believe that they are trying to do the best with the tools they have available. When fear is driving your survival instinct, what can you really do but to try to make yourself better? For someone as sick as a pwBPD, and I mean a person without the insight for delayed gratification, there are so many things in this world that can fill that void.

That's why i believe impulsive actions is one of the criteria. It's soothing and it's immediate. To us it appears like they're burning bridges, but to them it's all about survival. Afterwards they really do feel remorse and shame, but by that time a healthy non is long gone

[FannyB]

I think eventually we just become triggers - no matter how nice to them we are - so they have to push us away. Must be incredibly frustrating for them, as well as bemusing for us. 

[apollotech]

I think eventually we just become triggers - no matter how nice to them we are - so they have to push us away. Must be incredibly frustrating for them, as well as bemusing for us.

I'm with Fanny, BPD eventually drives the bus over the cliff. It's not a conscience choice on their behalf. It appears to be a conscience choice until you see the BPD running in the background.

[once removed]

"they" statements are tricky things in that theres always a story that counters them. thats true all over these boards. for all we have in common in our stories, we have many differences.

pwBPD are mentally ill and generally, BPD includes fear abandonment, fear of rejection, and an unstable sense of self. such things typically present a lifetime of challenges, professional, romantic, personal. these fears, and in some cases real experiences, only exacerbate these preexisting fears. they become self fulfilling prophecies.

these things can be true for anyone; we all struggle. pwBPD struggle with achieving what they most desire. its a desperately sad reality.

[disorderedsociety]

I think eventually we just become triggers - no matter how nice to them we are - so they have to push us away. Must be incredibly frustrating for them, as well as bemusing for us.

I'm with Fanny, BPD eventually drives the bus over the cliff. It's not a conscience choice on their behalf. It appears to be a conscience choice until you see the BPD running in the background.

This is true... .I remember her telling me how she could fill up her "box" with nice feelings but the bottom was spilling out at the same time. When she started meds it was more like the "box" filled up for a while and then bottomed out all at once. I think when the "box" was being filled was when I was being idealized and told how wonderful I am for being so understanding of her. Then the box would bottom out and I was unsupportive, a stick in the mud, "you deserve so much better than someone like me, why do you stay?" etc.

That question always made me uncomfortable, because I wanted to say, "I don't really know why I stay other than that I'm comfortable. You really manage to extinguish all the good feelings I manage to muster up about this relationship."

Sad... .  :'(

[SGraham]

Like once removed said, you cant make generalisations but i can see where you are coming from. My BPD ex gf just broke up with me like a week ago and looking back at the relationship it did seem like i always had to reach out and assure her that we were ok not the other way around.'The indignation of knowing you indured so much and then they just ended it is hard to bear, trust me i know, i just try my best to remember that she is struggling in ways i cant understand.

[Turkish]

A lot of my anger and resentment was expecting my ex to be someone she was not. She tried... .then stopped. And fled. I tried to deal with it, and field emotionally, which triggered her abandonment fears. What I thought I wanted in the beginning, even sought, was not what I wanted when I had it.

[myself]

From what I've seen, many pwBPD do not 'try their best'.

Not when it's a life of one foot in and one foot out.

How far will you really get with that approach?

[EaglesJuju]

I understand how it can seem that a pwBPD does not try their best.

When you look at the behavior, especially when a pwBPD sabotages a relationship or leaves you, it suggests that they do not 'try their best.' Many times our perception is based on what Turkish said, we expect a pwBPD to be something that they are not. When we do this, we tend to view a pwBPD as non-disordered or normal.  I have struggled with this myself.  My struggle was my unwillingness to radically accept the disorder for what it is.

It is very hard for someone to overcome a personality disorder. Imagine having a pattern of behavior that you have had for a lifetime and this is the only way you know how to 'survive.'  I suffer from DPD (dependent personality disorder) and although I have recovered from a large portion of my maladaptive traits, I understand psychopathology and how hard it is to overcome.  I struggle with crippling anxiety on a daily basis and sometimes it is so overwhelming I have a hard time working or functioning. Similar to pwBPD, I have my own fears of abandonment. The fear that I have is so intense and painful (both emotionally/physically) and coping/working through it can feel like a living nightmare.  Based on my own experience with fears of abandonment and the accompanying abandonment depression, I can understand why a pwBPD would behave in a way to avoid those feelings/abandonment depression. Behaving this way is instinctual when you are triggered. The best way to describe it is like a compulsion or addiction and maladaptive behaviors are like a fix. Although my maladaptive behavior differs from a pwBPD when my abandonment fears are triggered, I can still be perceived as not trying to my best to overcome.

Many pwBPD suffer from shame. Shame is a root cause of self-loathing. Sometimes a pwBPD can hide their shame and self-loathing very well, but they still have feelings of self-disgust, self-hatred, self-directed anger, self-criticism, pessimism, hopelessness, low self-worth, and emptiness at their core. The shame prompts a pwBPD to believe that they are failures, horrible people, and worthless. The shame makes a pwBPD hate themselves for behaving in a certain way.  As a result, a pwBPD can engage in self-destructive behavior such as substance abuse, self-harm, sabotaging relationships, self-punishment, and suicide. It becomes  a self-fulfilling prophecy for a pwBPD with self-destruction. PwBPD will feel even more shame in engaging in self-destruction afterwards it reinforces their hopelessness and low self-worth. 

[Pretty Woman]

Than when the (non) stands back ( cause who can take this forever) they go " you left me "


This really resonated with me.  I think I stood way back this past year and it was the calmest year we had... .then again she just left me and accused me of "never being there"... .

when I was there all the time the abuse was much worse.

It really is a case of your darned if you do, darned if you don't. No matter what you do, it doesn't matter because he/she set you up to fail.

My ex told me as she replaced me this final time, "this was just infatuation, we were never in a relationship. I think I wanted you to be something you werent".

Really? It took you 3yrs and a dozen breakups to think this? I am painted so black right now and she is off in la la land with the replacement.

[rotiroti]

PW,

You are right about the Catch-22 of it all. It was truly a no-win situation!

I think I wanted you to be something you werent

Man... .I am so sorry to hear that. I was always accused of not being the person my ex fell in love with, but looking back, I think it was lots of projecting from her hand. Insecurity that we're starting to see the 'real' them perhaps

[Fr4nz]

PW,

You are right about the Catch-22 of it all. It was truly a no-win situation!

I think I wanted you to be something you werent

Man... .I am so sorry to hear that. I was always accused of not being the person my ex fell in love with, but looking back, I think it was lots of projecting from her hand. Insecurity that we're starting to see the 'real' them perhaps

Oh man, that was exactly what she said to me... .are you sure we didn't date the same person?

[Pretty Woman]

I think it's creepy they all say the same thing. It's like they are their own species.


Mine is un-diagnosed but I don't need a diagnosis. As far as I am concerned she is several in the cluster-B category. I don't need an official anything.

[Mutt]

I feel like my ex wife did the best that she could and that I had expectations that the relationship was reciprocal. I felt a lot of anger and resentment.

I understand that my perception of her was that she was non-disordered and that it was 50 / 50 when the best that she can do is perhaps somewhere in 70 /30 or 80 / 20. I think that my expectations were too high and I had wanted her to understand me and not the other way around. She has low emotional intelligence and social impairments.

It helped when I radically accepted BPD and inject compassion and understanding with what she has coped with daily for a life-time. I'm OK with the reality that she can't meet me in the middle even if that means that I have to make the extra effort.  I think that we all have our own personal battles that we face. Sadly for some people its a very difficult one with a personality disorder.

[Fr4nz]

I feel like my ex wife did the best that she could and that I had expectations that the relationship was reciprocal. I felt a lot of anger and resentment.

I understand that my perception of her was that she was non-disordered and that it was 50 / 50 when the best that she can do is perhaps somewhere in 70 /30 or 80 / 20. I think that my expectations were too high and I had wanted her to understand me and not the other way around. She has low emotional intelligence and social impairments.

It helped when I radically accepted BPD and inject compassion and understanding with what she has coped with daily for a life-time. I'm OK with the reality that she can't meet me in the middle even if that means that I have to make the extra effort.  I think that we all have our own personal battles that we face. Sadly for some people its a very difficult one with a personality disorder.

Mutt, just out of curiosity: are you still with your BPD or are you NC/LC?

[Mutt]

I feel like my ex wife did the best that she could and that I had expectations that the relationship was reciprocal. I felt a lot of anger and resentment.

I understand that my perception of her was that she was non-disordered and that it was 50 / 50 when the best that she can do is perhaps somewhere in 70 /30 or 80 / 20. I think that my expectations were too high and I had wanted her to understand me and not the other way around. She has low emotional intelligence and social impairments.

It helped when I radically accepted BPD and inject compassion and understanding with what she has coped with daily for a life-time. I'm OK with the reality that she can't meet me in the middle even if that means that I have to make the extra effort.  I think that we all have our own personal battles that we face. Sadly for some people its a very difficult one with a personality disorder.

Mutt, just out of curiosity: are you still with your BPD or are you NC/LC?

Hi Fr4nz,

She's due to have her baby in Sept with her boyfriend. I have neither NC/LC and I have contact.

[rotiroti]

PW,

You are right about the Catch-22 of it all. It was truly a no-win situation!

I think I wanted you to be something you werent

Man... .I am so sorry to hear that. I was always accused of not being the person my ex fell in love with, but looking back, I think it was lots of projecting from her hand. Insecurity that we're starting to see the 'real' them perhaps

Oh man, that was exactly what she said to me... .are you sure we didn't date the same person?

haha seriously! Fr4nz I just read your post from earlier this year and man... .what a roller coaster! It gives me great courage that you personally went through 1.5 year of that and now are here far along the recovery path. Thanks for sharing that with us

I think it's creepy they all say the same thing. It's like they are their own species.

Empathy

Mine is un-diagnosed but I don't need a diagnosis. As far as I am concerned she is several in the cluster-B category. I don't need an official anything.

PW, you are on fire. I was searching frantically to put the diagnosis, confirm to some degree. But in the end it doesn't matter. Whatever they are doesn't work for us!

[once removed]

its also worth noting the difference between high functioning and low functioning.

many pwBPD are incredibly successful professionally. also, consider any pwBPD who has committed to recovery.

notable not quitter: marsha linehan

notable not quitter: Tami Green

others i can name.

[Pretty Woman]

Yeah, mine quit the relationship... .

13 times... .

[rotiroti]

Wait Marsha Linehan, the creator of DBT was diagnosed with BPD? Mind. blown.

[Fr4nz]

Mutt, just out of curiosity: are you still with your BPD or are you NC/LC?

Hi Fr4nz,

She's due to have her baby in Sept with her boyfriend. I have neither NC/LC and I have contact.

Did you have N/C after your b/u? If yes, for how many months it lasted (and who broke it) and how did you manage to have a friendly reconnection with her?

[Turkish]

Linehan was diagnosed as schizophrenic and institutionalized. After she started studying psychology, she diagnosed herself in retrospect as BPD, and developed a way to help others like her.

[apollotech]

I think the answer is can't rather than quit. Looking at BPD as fundamentally an attachment disorder, a pwBPD is severely penalized from the very beginning in attempting to form mature, healthy bonds. The capacity to accomplish the task is simply not there.

Think of it like this: a person gives you a 5 lb. weight and ask you to carry it for a mile without putting it down. Most people will have the physical capacity to accomplish that task. The same person gives you a 300 lb. weight and ask you to carry it for a mile without putting it down. Now, how many have the physical capacity to accomplish that? That's can't rather than quit.

[SummerStorm]

I think the answer is can't rather than quit. Looking at BPD as fundamentally an attachment disorder, a pwBPD is severely penalized from the very beginning in attempting to form mature, healthy bonds. The capacity to accomplish the task is simply not there.

Perfectly stated, apollotech.

I think they sometimes, as a defense mechanism, also put on a facade and make others think that they just "do what they want" and refuse to do things.  But, like you said, it's neither of those things, but rather that they just can't.

For those of you struggling with this, think of some things your exBPD said to you and put in the word "can't."  That's what you're dealing with when you have a pwBPD in your life.

Here are a few examples of things my BPD said, with a word struck out and the word "can't" added where the other word was.  In some cases, I've added other words in brackets, for emphasis:

- I refuse to can't adult.

- I always can't get what I [really] want.

- I love can't love you [the way you love me].

- I don't can't have friends [who stay for a long time].

Really changes things, doesn't it?  

*Edited because this English teacher has been on summer vacation too long and made a glaring usage error.   

[valet]

I think the answer is can't rather than quit. Looking at BPD as fundamentally an attachment disorder, a pwBPD is severely penalized from the very beginning in attempting to form mature, healthy bonds. The capacity to accomplish the task is simply not there.

Perfectly stated, apollotech.

I think they sometimes, as a defense mechanism, also put on a facade and make others think that they just "do what they want" and refuse to do things.  But, like you said, it's neither of those things, but rather that they just can't.

For those of you struggling with this, think of some things your exBPD said to you and put in the word "can't."  That's what you're dealing with when you have a pwBPD in your life.

Here are a few examples of things my BPD said, with a word struck out and the word "can't" added where the other word was.  In some cases, I've added other words in brackets, for emphasis:

- I refuse to can't adult.

- I always can't get what I [really] want.

- I love can't love you [the way you love me].

- I don't can't have friends [who stay for a long time].

Really changes things, doesn't it?  

*Edited because this English teacher has been on summer vacation too long and made a glaring usage error.  

And this again is all denial, driven by the internal shame inherent to people with the disorder.

[myself]

Lying, cheating, scapegoating, raging, running away... .That's not 'best'.

Much of this is intentional. They know what's going on and it's continued.

Can they help it? Often, no. But can they find help? Definitely yes.

At what point in a pwBPD's life is this a decision being made to stay 'ill'?

PwBPD present themselves as something they're not. Over and over again.

Sweeping this under the 'mental illness' rug excuses too much bad behavior.

[Pretty Woman]

Amen, Myself. Amen.

[Mutt]

Can they help it? Often, no. But can they find help? Definitely yes.

I had life-long emotional wounds and destructive repetitive relationship patterns. I could have seeked help in T. Why didn't I make that choice? In marriage counseling I had wanted my ex to change to ameloriate the marriage because I thought that there was nothing wrong with my behaviors - I was blaming her. It took a very difficult personality disorder for me to turn the binocular around. It was the catalyst for change. It begs to question why didn't I go into therapy to work on my stuff yet I was repeating the same patterns?

[myself]

Mutt, if you're going to put yourself on a similar playing field as a pwBPD, and you've seen that when you sought help/got help (even though it took awhile/certain struggles to get there) it bettered your life, then why not hold pwBPD to similar standards/results? Obviously it's possible for just about any of us to overcome much of what holds us back. It's seen here everyday. BPD is one of the harder nuts to crack, for sure, but it can be done. It's an option/choice. It can at least be tried, instead of the person just repeatedly 'quitting'. Taking the high road (which sounds codependent in many ways, and also a form of denial same as radical acceptance can be) and saying they 'can't help it' just doesn't really cut it. Not in this age of more awareness, googling, self-help books, available therapists, sites like this... .