Mommie Dearest

[Furandfeathers]

Friends,

My mom just moved here so I could help her care for my grandparent.  It's been a tumultuous process, but I kept telling myself that once she got settled in, things would improve.  Short story--after two months of bizarre encounters, I put myself in therapy to try to make sense of how I could improve the situation.  In the first 30 minutes, my new therapist suggested I look at Understanding the Borderline Mother.  I started reading about BPD and felt like my brain was exploding!  I began to understand my childhood, myself, my mother and siblings differently. All my life, I have struggled to improve myself, to be a better, deserving person.  I craved love and got into terrible relationships.  I attempted suicide multiple times and castigated myself for failing.  I spent my life trying to be worthy, to be loveable.

All my life, I thought my family tortured me because of who I am.  Now I think it's because of who she is.  It's devastating. 

I don't know what is true.  I am furious and afraid. I don't even know where to start. I have been caring for my mother emotionally for years.  I am her best friend (she is not mine).  She doesn't have anyone else.  My siblings have mostly disengaged from her. She doesn't have any friends.   Now she lives in my town and I'm trapped. 

I thought the rages and hurtful comments were over years ago.  I thought it was because I was a bad kid who turned good.   Now I realize I was the good daughter because I lived far away.  It's sorta funny--the last 20 years I always joked I was the good daughter because I lived 8 hours away.  Not so funny now!   I can't even look her in the eye.  She is really nice to me most of the time, then attacks me suddenly.  I never know when or what is coming.  She has temper tantrums and then pretends it never happened.  She told me she didn't want my help anymore, that it was too frustrating to work with me because I'm a problem-solver (?), then texts me everyday to do something to help her.  She gets mad if I don't respond the way she wants me to or in the time frame she wants.  It's very confusing.

I am a successful professional with an amazing partner, a beautiful home, a loving community that respects me, but she can reduce me to 7 years old again with a look or a word.   I don't want to ruin the good things I've created for myself.  AND I feel overwhelmed and confused. I feel powerless.  I am afraid.  I understand I need to process the challenges and injuries of my childhood in order to heal, but I dread it.  I was always told I was too sensitive and overly dramatic when I expressed my feelings.  It's very difficult for me to talk about my emotions and experiences, as a result. Perhaps anonymity will give me the freedom to speak my truth.   I welcome advice and perspectives.     I very much appreciate those that have written in--it's helpful to me to see how others are addressing these issues.  Thank you!

[justAkid]

 "AND I feel overwhelmed and confused. I feel powerless.  I am afraid.  I understand I need to process the challenges and injuries of my childhood in order to heal, but I dread it.  I was always told I was too sensitive and overly dramatic when I expressed my feelings." 

Furandfeathers,

I'm so sorry you are going through this, but what you said above is exactly how I am feeling right now. I just joined this message board tonight to seek the same help. If I wasn't so overwhelmed right now and my head wasn't spinning so much I'd offer more right now. But I think I need to go to bed. If you haven't checked out any books to read I'd recommend starting with some articles on here. Or maybe a book. I just began reading the book Stop Walking on Eggshells by Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger. I also just ordered Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship.  I have read reviews about it on here and it took my breath away.

I would like to speak to you more about your experience and mine if it would be helpful it it were not so late. Hang in there.

justAkid.

[Furandfeathers]

Justakid,

Yes, get some rest!  I hope you feel a bit better in the morning. 

I got Understanding the Borderline Mother on Saturday and read it in a day.  I was stunned!  I'll look for the ones you recommend next. 

Sweet dreams.

Furandfeathers

[littlebirdcline]

I have been where you are.  I knew my mother was traumatized and mentally ill for years, and tried to just ignore it.  Things came to a head last year, and I had to get serious about dealing with my childhood, our adult relationship, and how I was going to deal with it for the next 40 years of my life.  It has been difficult and painful, frustrating for my husband, hurtful to my son, who no longer sees his grandparents, and has caused a major upheaval in my family.  My father has cut me off because I won't deal with my mother, and my brother and I are having to work hard to not let it affect us. 

Okay, that is all terrible, and it might make you want to bury your head in the sand.  But you know what else came out of it?  Understanding.  I know now how her behavior affected me all these years.  I know that I am not unworthy.  I feel better about myself, more positive, and happy, than I ever have.  My stress level is significantly less.  I finally am able to put myself- and my husband and son- before my family of origin, and stop feeling guilty ( most of the time) because she is ill.  It's not perfect, and I hope for you it doesn't come to no contact.  Just remember this is not about her.  It's about you.  It's about you giving yourself love, to stop taking her abuse into yourself, however you manage to do that.  It's about you being happy. 

I felt so guilty because my mother had a horrible childhood that made her the way she is.  She lets that trauma and abuse dominate her life, and directs it outward at everyone she loves.  But just because she refuses to do anything about it doesn't mean I have to take it.  She never taught me to value myself because she doesn't value herself.  It took me 40 years to learn how on my own, but man, was it worth it.

I recommend therapy, if you have the means, reading, this board... .

[Furandfeathers]

Thank you, Littlebird.  I need to hear the hope and progress that you convey.  I have just completed my second therapy session and have scheduled more.  It's terrifying to think about what I have to do, so your encouragement is keenly valued.  I'm struggling to even use the word "abuse," even though my mother clearly abused us.  With her black is white.  Everything she did/does is because of our behavior, not hers.  She thinks she was a good parent because she didn't use corporal punishment like her parents did.  From her perspective, the mental and emotional torture, belittling, rage, silent treatment, etc., were required to make us behave. Or the dismissive blaming that I'm just too sensitive to justify her behavior and dismiss my feelings.  Argh!  So much to work through--talking about it goes against everything I learned to do to protect myself.  I even suggested to my therapist that we focus on strategies to deal with her in the present rather than bringing up the past and resulting damage in my life and psyche. Lol.   I am afraid to hope I could feel better, but desperately want to.  I want to take care of myself.  I want to be less anxious and afraid of everything.   I am encouraged by your experience.  Thank you so much for taking time to let me know things can get better.

[justAkid]

Furandfeathers,

I am glad you posted last night around the same time I made my first post. I have never posted online or been one to go online much. I am a very busy with my job. But what has gone on lately has pushed me to my limits and made me seek help and I don't know where else to go. I am in need of support. I have looked around a little and it seems I need to post an introductory post on here. I feel a bit lost on here an overwhelmed. I realized I felt like I might "get in trouble" for doing things wrong. I realize that is the tapes playing in my head from the years of not being able to please my mother.

My copy of Understanding The Borderline Mother should arrive from Amazon tomorrow. I ordered it after hearing that you read it and reading some others talk about it. After reading some descriptions of the types of mothers in a review on here and having my panic attack yesterday I knew I needed to get it. I am still only on chapter 3 of Walking on Eggshels (I think that is the title) but it is what helped me write my many drafts to my letter to my mother. My first draft was just pure anger. That felt good to get out. It had lots of jabs in there. I finished draft 6 with some great pointers from that book and kept it concise and clear and to the point and took out all the jabs at her and kept it focused and drew a line about not allowing her to attack my character - she can be angry and frustrated with me and even tell me she is all those things with me but not make attacks about my state of mind and attack my character, especially in front of other family members and children. I read it to my best friend and my counselor first. They thought it was good. When I showed my counselor the book I was reading, he said, "YES! YES! Borderline. YES! Good. Thank God." As if I had finally arrived at that conclusion. And then he sat back and sighed a big sigh. I felt like, "How have I been blind to this?" I felt like all of a sudden the veil was lifted and I saw it all in a snap. It all made sense. It took my breath away. I don't know what my problem was before? I feel sort of foggy. Like I am still walking out of something. Like, I don't understand how I have missed this for so long. My confusion might make more sense if I told you I was a therapist myself. I feel ashamed admitting this. I feel like I will get kicked off by a moderator. I feel absolutely humiliated saying this. Almost afraid. Like I will get found out and have my licensee revoked and someone will find out who I am.

Well, I wrote her, and she wrote back 5 little lines. She belittled me, denied my reality. Accused me again (did the very thing I told her I will not tolerate), Made fun of me and minimized it and tried to make me feel like I was crazy and making a big deal out of things. And told me she wasn't angry but only shocked at my behavior (that originally started this whole stupid correspondence in the first place... .because I was unable to give my grandmother a ride due to a previous appointment I had). So i got that response this morning and yes, it successfully pushed my buttons... .again. So I have been trying to do self talk all day to get my mind off the argument in my head or the letter I'd love to write back. But I will likely leave it as is.

The reality is she is insecure, hurting and empty and has no tools on how to communicate. And she is largely this way from HER mother. The grandmother I mention above who is so psychologically damaging a woman I couldn't begin... .That woman abused me in every way imaginable. So I get that my mother is hurt. Hurt people, hurt people. Stop Walking on Eggshells book has helped me temper my anger and step inside the pain she must feel. But only a little. It keeps a leash on it.

I just feel like in reeling right now. I don't know how to describe it. I'm both nervous and eager for my other book to arrive.

When you said she has temper tantrums and then pretends it never happens I could so relate to that. My mother would rage when I was younger. I mean full on run through the house with a knife or a bat in a hand chasing us and beat the crap out of us and then when it was all over make me my favorite meal. It was never talked about. No one spoke about what just happened. I thought, "Is this real? Or is this pretend?" It got to the point I thought I was going insane. When you say your mom gets mad if you don't respond the way she wants or in her time frame? That is why I am currently "in trouble." I did one favor - picked up grandma - but didn't do another - take her home. So i was told I was selfish, I am disrespectful, only think of myself, I am unhappy and always will be until I learn to serve others. And I got a list of all the hard work that she put into the event that I drove her too. Now, this whole thing is so ludicrous. I let my mother know the night before I couldn't drive grandma home when I was asked to do the favor. I let grandma know I couldn't' drive her home and she said OK. But then when it came time - they BOTH flipped out and made me feel crazy and I even CHECKED my phone to make sure I really had that call the night before with my mother! All because I had a haircut to get to.

So, I know what you mean. It was projection. My mother feels I don't SERVE HER enough, or to her satisfaction. So she makes sweeping statements about me not serving people. The truth is there is no way anyone could probably ever "serve" her enough for her to be satisfied.

[Furandfeathers]

Justakid,

I'm glad we posted at the same time, too.  Our situations sound very similar.  I also have never posted online or even gone to a support group.  I'm also struggling and feeling lost. When I first got the Borderline Mother book, I was afraid to mark in it in case my mother found it--I didn't want to get in trouble.  And I haven't told her I started therapy because I don't want to explain why and I don't have a ready lie.

I will be curious what you think of the Borderline Mother book.  I see aspects of my mother in all the types, but most consistently the witch. I will look for the Walking on Eggshells book if you recommend it. 

I want you to know that I admire and respect your willingness to write that letter to your mother and send it!  I don't have that kind of courage yet. I have been the good daughter for quite a few years and have been able to "handle" her in short visits on holidays and our frequent phone calls-and my siblings were her target.  I could always go back to my life fairly easily because of her lowered expectations of me--I can't do things for her because I live far away.  I was an ally.  Now that she has moved here, it's becoming more difficult. She treats me as an adversary.  That first time she got unreasonably angry with me was shocking.  It had been years since she spoke to me like that (although she always talks that way to my siblings).

It sounds like your letter was direct and honest and reasonable.  You asked for what you needed.  You set boundaries.  Can you hold to your boundaries?  I think that will take some practice, too.  You know, we are entitled to our anger, but it's never productive with our moms, is it?  It only makes things worse. 

I think we are supposed to be reeling from all this.  It's a huge paradigm shift.  It'd be weird not to be unsettled.  My gosh!  There is a name for what she is!  All these years, I thought it was something wrong with me.  Or that's just the way she is.  Or maybe everyone's parents are that way.  I don't know what's normal!  I told my therapists a couple of things I remembered from my earliest years and she said what my mother did was not normal.  I didn't even know those things were awful.  I thought it was just the way people are. 

Don't beat yourself up for not diagnosing your mom, please.  Who can really see their parents clearly? Hey, you get to be human!   And I read something like only 6 million Americans have BPD.  I think it's pretty amazing you came to that conclusion at all.  If your therapist thought so, why didn't he suggest it?   I'm so sorry you feel shamed and humiliated.  Are you often plagued with feeling like an imposter?  Or struggle to be perfect all the time?  I am.  Do you think your shame is rooted in these?  I'm sure a moderator would have something brilliant to say about it, but the way I see it, being a therapist doesn't mean you have to know everything.  Perhaps there is some advantage though.  You have the background to understand the complexity of this disease. You have a language to articulate your experiences. I doubt it will make the process easier or faster, but you have a better understanding of the prospect and process of healing than most.  Is there anything I can say that will help you to let go of fear and shame?  Perhaps you can remind yourself and rejoice in the SHEER COURAGE it took to write that letter and send it!  :-)


Did you watch that television show, Dexter?  In the beginning credits there is a scene where they drop a spot of blood into water and the color just tendrils out and slowly gets absorbed into the water.  When I first started researching BPD, that's the way I felt.  Things suddenly made sense in a completely different way than I had ever imagined.  I could feel those tendrils connecting everything--the way my mom acts and reacts, the way I am, the issues I struggle with, my relationships with my siblings, etc.  I feel both better (it's not me) and worse (everything I thought about myself is a lie). 

It sounds like your mothers response is an attempt to maintain the status quo.  OF COURSE your letter was not about picking up your G'ma!  It was about a long history of treating you badly and you insisting she stop abusing you.  YOU ARE NOT CRAZY.  It sounds goofy, but when my buttons get pushed, my mantra is "breathe in peace, breathe out love." I'm still practicing.     Hold your line, friend!  You deserve better.

My grandmother was also abusive to my mother. I think she might have had BPD, too.  Mom is a hot mess for a reason.  (G'ma hated me, btw.)  My mother is a lonely, scared little girl trapped in a 71 year old body.  My grandparents would beat her with a belt. They severely neglected her and she was an only child.  She had a beloved pet when she was little and they left it behind when they moved despite mom's pleadings.  Even as an adult, when my g'ma bought my mother a gift, she'd get the most basic model and tell mom that was good enough for her.  She was sexually assaulted by an uncle and when her parents found out, it was ugly--although they never talked to her about it.  It's my empathy for her that keeps me from walking away.  She doesn't have anyone else.  She lashes out and drives people away.  On top of all this, she has had some strokes in her frontal lobe that have effectively removed some skills that kept her somewhat functional--primarily organization and executive decision making.  It has significantly increased her frustration level.  The situation that finally sent me to therapy was this: she was showing me the five calendars she has--one for different things, ie one for dr appts, one for dog classes, etc.  I suggested she would be more organized with one calendar so she would know where she was supposed to be. She said she got confused when there were so many things on the calendar. I suggested a color code.  She said she wanted to carry her calendars and couldn't keep up with colored markers.  I said perhaps we could brainstorm another solution. She told me again that I don't understand that she is sick (HA!) and can't do what she used to do.  I reassured her I only want to help her feel less frustrated and want to help her find solutions that work for her.  Everything seemed okay.  The next day, she chewed me up one side and down another for "lecturing" her.  She said I don't understand and she doesn't want my help with anything except taking care of my grandfather.  It's too frustrating to work with me.  Then she yelled at me because I was keeping her from finishing up getting moved into her new house because I suggested waiting until my FIL returned to move some furniture she had at my house.  I told her I would get the furniture loaded and she could come get it.  (That was three weeks ago and she still hasn't come to get it).  Then she started to fill out a survey and ignore me.  (The next day she wanted me to make her curtains and recover a pillow. A few days later she yelled at me for not helping her with a complaint letter.) None of it makes sense to me.  I'm so hurt and confused. I think I've been helping her everyday for years--hours of phone calls and errands, taking care of my grandpa so she could travel.   I went home and called the therapist my friend recommended.  Thirty minutes into the session, the doctor suggests the Borderline Mother book.

Ludicrous!  Exactly!

Your childhood sounds terrifying. "Is this real? Or is this pretend?" It got to the point I thought I was going insane."  WOW, yes!  I always felt off-balance.  I remember a line from a poem I wrote--Perhaps I am a figment of my own imagination... .  I seriously thought there was something wrong with me.  I cut my wrists when I was 13.  I got afraid and went and told my mother.  She was so angry!  She sent me to the doctor with my step-dad because she didn't want to leave work.  I inconvenienced her at work!  If I ever wondered where I stood, that was a clear message.  And I never told another person about my suicide attempts. 

It's not selfish to take care of yourself.  I'm not good at it, but I want to be better.  You know who you are in your heart of hearts, don't you?  You don't believe her anymore, do you?  You know you deserve better--you made a stand and demanded to be treated with the respect you deserve.  I feel of two minds myself--the strong, confident, smart, successful, loving/loved, competent person who has achieved much and who knows my mom is damaged, therefore her behaviors shouldn't be able to touch my heart.  Then there is the little girl who is angry, sad, frightened and yearns desperately for my mother to see me, love me and think I'm wonderful and valuable.  The little girl is vulnerable, but I know my mom is not going to change so the grown up me has to take care of myself.  I'm hoping to learn how to heal that little girl so I can take better care of myself.  We'll never be able to satisfy our moms, no matter what we do. It's never going to be enough. 

[justAkid]

OH GOOD GOD!

I just wanted to tell you that I was fist pumping and saying "YES!" and "NO WAY!" and "SHUT UP." While reading your post. Because I couldn't believe how much someone had in common with me and understood me and was able to articulate it!

I never thought I could get so excited about something that has been at the heart of all my deepest pain.

Once again, I am soo tired after a day full of therapy with my little nuggets and their families. I work as a child and family therapist and am a trauma specialist. HA! Go ahead. Laugh.

But I have another long day ahead of me tomorrow and my paperwork. And I must go to bed and get up early and I want so much to respond to you tomorrow! Unless of course I can't sleep again tonight. Last night I was a wreck waiting for her to respond.

Oh, you wrote poetry... .I wrote since a teen and published a book. The title will kill you after I heard what you said one of the lines yours was. But I would not feel comfortable putting it here publicly. But at my worst (sickest) I thought I was so "unreal" that I cut pretty bad and deep too. I still have the scars. I ended up getting a meaningful tattoo over my wrist where the worst of them was. I wanted to see if I would bleed real blood to check if I was human. DEPERSONALIZATION much?

My grandma had a stroke and sounds a lot like your mother. Similar small things can frustrate her.

Oh, man, so much more.

AND I LOVED DEXTER! YES!

More tomorrow. Thank you new friend. Thank you. I get my book tomorrow too! I look forward to rereading your post and responding. Thank you!

[Furandfeathers]

Justakid,

You're so awesome!  I was very anxious about my post.  I can be relentlessly encouraging and it's annoying.  I totally "get" busy--no worries.  I usually work 60ish hours a week.  I teach at a university and took a couple of weeks off before classes start up.  I canned a bushel of peaches today. :-)

Today I struggled with doubt or denial... .or something.  I am questioning myself, my perceptions.  Maybe I'm exaggerating or being overly-sensitive or dramatic.  You know, all the messages I got as a kid whenever I dared question/criticize/expressed my emotions/asked for something.  It's weird because at the same time, I know I'm right.  I know I'm not crazy.  Don't they call that something like cognitive dissidence?  Only I don't feel stressed about it.  I think I just have to keep practicing. 

I haven't talked to my mom in several days-since Saturday.  She's texted me and I have not taken the bait as far as offering advice or my perspective. When she has complained, I've simply said, that sounds frustrating.  When she said she didn't know whether she should paint a room or pay someone to do it, I said, that is quite a conundrum--whether to spend money or time.  We are having breakfast tomorrow.  I think she'll be nice because I haven't been calling her, but I'm prepared for her to be angry for not helping her (even though she told me not to help). 

I hope you get to read a chapter or two of the Borderline Mother book.  I started at the end because I needed to know there was a plan. LOL.

[justAkid]

Furandfeathers,

My book, Understanding The Borderline Mother didn't arrive Thursday. I was frustrated. But it came today. I can't sit still. I am jumping ahead, moving around in it. I turned on the TV, tried to eat dinner, stopped, read a few pages, stopped, tried to do my paperwork, stopped, TV again, stopped, putzed around, stopped. Need to do chores, stopped. I just feel agitated and can't seem to focus and let myself read it. I think I will settle in here eventually and do it. Maybe after I get some more work done - chores or work work and then I can sit still.

You said you haven't started therapy yet because you don't want to have to explain why. Have you been in therapy before? Ever? I mean for your mom or anything? And could you go without your mom knowing? I started going in my late teen years and kept telling my parents I was going to the library or a friend's house to study. I kept this up while still living at home. They didn't know.

You said you see aspects of your mother in all the types. So far I do too. When I was younger especially the Witch. More the Queen now. But also the Waif a lot. But I have not read a whole chapter yet. I want to get some things done tonight so I can curl up and read all day tomorrow. I've not had a real "day off" in months. I suspect it might really trigger me if I read tonight and tomorrow though. Lots of journaling or jumping on here too.

Thanks for your words about admiring me writing the letter, but it took a TON of work. I mean a lot of years and a lot of therapy. I have always been the good girl too. But oddly, she has painted me to my siblings as the "sick" one. Or the "crazy" one. Or the bad one. But she knows the bad one can't stick that well.

She really divides the boys from the girls and the boys usually got the "bad" label but as far as the girls go I definitely got the "bad" label I guess. I've only lived about 40 miles away from here at my furthest. Mostly just about 3-5 miles. I envy 2 of my siblings who live in other states. She gets so excited to see them. Despite that one of them has been the "bad" one his whole life. God love him.

Can I hold my boundaries? So far so good. I've not responded to her jerky response email back. However I have had two siblings contact me today. I suspect they were prodded by her. They were kind of weird and subversive. I'm pretty sure she asked them to test the waters. And the sibling I'm closest to that I call nearly daily has not spoke to me since "the event" last weekend. I tried to call today and left a message but haven't heard back. If this hurts my relationship with her it will kill me. The wild thing about my mom is that no matter what explosion goes off she will act as if nothing happened and think her behavior is fine and MINE is the one that is unacceptable. (Or anyone else's). So if I see her at a family function I decide to go to in the near future to see others, she will act coldly maybe or maybe treat me just fine and act like she is doing me a favor to be kind to me. It is maddening.

I think we are supposed to be reeling from all this.  It's a huge paradigm shift.  It'd be weird not to be unsettled.  My gosh!  There is a name for what she is!  All these years, I thought it was something wrong with me.  Or that's just the way she is.  Or maybe everyone's parents are that way.  I don't know what's normal!  I told my therapists a couple of things I remembered from my earliest years and she said what my mother did was not normal.  I didn't even know those things were awful.  I thought it was just the way people are. 



YES!

Are you often plagued with feeling like an imposter?  Or struggle to be perfect all the time?  Yes. I have had this feeling most of my life. That someone will find me out and say I don't belong. But especially in my career and field I am in. Mostly be other professionals. If my clients knew I think they would feel relieved and I think they would tell others and I would have the longest waiting list because I can relate to SOO much.

And yes, I absolutely think that is a shame based thing. I think it has just become a part of my "fragile sense of self" due to my mother projecting HER fragile sense of self onto me. She really can't stand herself, she really has so much self loathing and she can't bear that feeling. So she has projected that onto me - her extension of herself. That is easier to bear. I've absorbed that and of course believed that. As a little baby and a little girl I adored my mother and wanted her love and admiration.

My trauma knowledge is all clicking for me now. That part of my understanding/ training is helping. I understand some of the why's for me now and even for my mom I think. But I am still reeling. I think I have always known my mom was "crazy." I used to say "I was raised by wolves." And due to my early years of therapy I came to accept that I was abused. That was VERY HARD. But I always struggled with it. I struggled with "was this true?" Maybe it didn't happen. I was always doubting things. My reality seemed off. Like she seemed like good mom one minute and we seemed like this great family on the outside but such weird and awful things happened behind closed doors and it made me so crazy in my head. So the fact that what I'm reading now is verifying that my mom is BPD/ NPD is making this seem very real and true for me and I feel like I am in a courtroom and the jury has just been presented with evidence that is undeniable and the DNA is a match. The verdict is in. After years of a trial that has dragged on and on. The verdict is in. GUILTY. And a panic comes over me.

The panic is both: She is this way and I was NOT crazy. I was not the one who had to go through the things I had to go through. I didn't have to cut, go to through hospitalizations and medications and all that therapy. I wasn't the one who was losing her grip on reality. (Well, I was. But I shouldn't have been.) I was only a child when this happened and I was reacting very normally to a very abnormal situation. She needed to get the help I was getting. Not me. And that panic attack begins. In the mental hospital after cutting myself she told me, "You know better than this!" That is one of my favorites. Shame me in the mental ward while I'm drugged beyond belief and both arms are bandaged up. What does that even mean? I embarrassed her. It was all about her and her image.

You are right about the little girl... We flip between the little girl and our adult selves. It is my implicit memory that is what kicks off these panic attacks... .that's the little girl. And the grown up me needs to take care of her because no one ever did. We need to learn how to do this.

Here is the link to a new post I did when I realized I needed to write an "introduction". It is brief but it explains things a little bit more. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281138.0

OK, off to read The Borderline Mother or do some chores or both! I'm sure I'll be on here for more support as the lightbulbs go off.

And now I think I want to re watch Dexter from the beginning. I loved that show! Such a great study in ethics and morality and those shades of grey. I would love to use that in a teaching and to start a debate on "right and wrong."

Take care of the little girl.

[Furandfeathers]

Good morning!

I know well that itchy feeling--I think you are smart to take some time with the book.  I did the same. It's like I could only take in so much at a time.  Kinda like sidling up to a snake in the chicken coop--terrifying, but you know you have to do it. .  Then I sat down and read it in one sitting.  Now I'm picking through it again and thinking about it in more detail and making notes in my journal.

I just started therapy (again). I've only had two appointments.  I've been off and on since my teens, too.  The last time was ten years ago when I was going through a divorce. I find it very helpful when I have the right person. I haven't told my mom because I don't know what to say.  When I was in jr. high, I started seeing the guidance counselor regularly.  (I started cutting at 13.  I've never known another person who was a cutter, although I've done quite a bit of reading about it.) My mom found out and was furious.  She was angry I didn't tell her because she's my mother and entitled to know everything about me.  I was a very secretive child and I know exactly why.  It drove mom crazy!

Has the sibling you are close to called you back yet? I am pretty isolated from my siblings although I'm working on it.  My brother and I have always had conflict and competition.  I'm the oldest child, but he is the first boy.  My family wanted a boy.  My sister adored my brother. He was fun.  I was not.  When we got older, he effectively abandoned my sister because he didn't approve of her drug use.  He was the one that introduced her to drugs and alcohol, but she wasn't able to leave it behind when she got older.  She struggles with addiction.  I suppose we all do, but some are more acceptable than others.  A few years ago, my sister really hit bottom. I decided I wanted to be a better support for her. It's impossible to get her on the phone, so I started sending her a card every month telling her that I will always love her and just trying to be encouraging and supportive.  It really began to change our relationship. I helped her get into rehab and wrote her a long letter about how strong, determined, fearless she was as a child.  She has brought her kids up to stay with me for a week the last couple of summers.  This year I had both my sibs and their children here and it went pretty well.  I realized that if I didn't reach out to them, they weren't going to reach out to me.  I would just float out of their lives.  I used to go along with my mothers criticism of my siblings. We could complain for hours about them (rarely direct confrontation because why have a healthy conversation when you could be passive aggressive and snarky).  I decided I didn't want to do that anymore.  When my mom would start the b___-fest, I'd say something like, yeah, I wonder how sib got that way?  What about his/her experience shaped this behavior?  Or, I think sib struggles with X,Y,Z.  I think s/he is doing the best they can considering. Etc.  My mom was furious that I didn't want to criticize anymore, but she got over it.  And she's still hyper-critical, but we have fewer of those conversations.  She threatened to take me off as executor of her will if I was going to give my sister money.  "You are the most compassionate person I know.  You are so empathetic.  If your sister is living under a bridge, are you going to give her money?  Because I can take you off as executor if you can't do what I want."  What kind of mother thinks her child is so bad that she deserves to live under a bridge?  My sister is an addict, not a serial killer. What the heck?

she will act coldly maybe or maybe treat me just fine and act like she is doing me a favor to be kind to me. It is maddening.

YES, exactly!  It keeps me off balance. 

If my clients knew I think they would feel relieved and I think they would tell others and I would have the longest waiting list because I can relate to SOO much.

Totally TRUE! LOL.  I meet so many women who fear being "found out." Is it a condition of being female in our culture? Or a symptom of childhood trauma?


And yes, I absolutely think that is a shame based thing. I think it has just become a part of my "fragile sense of self" due to my mother projecting HER fragile sense of self onto me. She really can't stand herself, she really has so much self loathing and she can't bear that feeling. So she has projected that onto me - her extension of herself. That is easier to bear. I've absorbed that and of course believed that. As a little baby and a little girl I adored my mother and wanted her love and admiration.

Holy smokes! THIS!  And I still want my mother to love me enough to choose me first.  But that's never going to happen and I need to address the desire and let it go before it does any more damage.  I have a wonderful partner who is the first person to make me feel loved unconditionally.  I don't want to ruin that because I can't let go of a desire for something that won't change.  It can't change because of her disease.


My trauma knowledge is all clicking for me now. That part of my understanding/ training is helping. I understand some of the why's for me now and even for my mom I think. But I am still reeling. I think I have always known my mom was "crazy." I used to say "I was raised by wolves." And due to my early years of therapy I came to accept that I was abused. That was VERY HARD. But I always struggled with it. I struggled with "was this true?" Maybe it didn't happen. I was always doubting things. My reality seemed off. Like she seemed like good mom one minute and we seemed like this great family on the outside but such weird and awful things happened behind closed doors and it made me so crazy in my head. So the fact that what I'm reading now is verifying that my mom is BPD/ NPD is making this seem very real and true for me and I feel like I am in a courtroom and the jury has just been presented with evidence that is undeniable and the DNA is a match. The verdict is in. After years of a trial that has dragged on and on. The verdict is in. GUILTY. And a panic comes over me.

I used to tell people I was an alien from outer space. :-) This is the truth you've searched for your entire life.  This part is over and you are moving to the next stage.  Everything is about to change.  It's scary.


The panic is both: She is this way and I was NOT crazy. I was not the one who had to go through the things I had to go through. I didn't have to cut, go to through hospitalizations and medications and all that therapy. I wasn't the one who was losing her grip on reality. (Well, I was. But I shouldn't have been.) I was only a child when this happened and I was reacting very normally to a very abnormal situation. 

THIS THIS THIS!  I suffered because I thought it was me, my fault.  I hated myself when I should have hated her.  I didn't have to.  I was a good girl-smart, kind, generous, hard-working, loyal, funny.  She made me think there was something wrong with me. I thought if I worked hard enough I would be lovable.  I thought I had to earn love. I am SO angry.  How could she do that to me?  I didn't deserve it.  I look at pictures of myself as a child and I was so serious, so sad and withdrawn.  I'm struggling to hold my anger towards her and my compassion for her pain at the same time.

I appreciate your description of the flipping.  You've described it perfectly.  I'm going to work really hard to do what my mom could not and take care of the little girl. 

We've recently started watching Hannibal, the tv series.  It's super creepy and a little too graphic sometimes, but it's so interesting to watch the way the Hannibal Lector character manipulates people.  He's a psychopath, of course, but his actions are evil.  I think about the line between mental illness and evil. I know my mother is ill, but is she evil?  Certainly she has done evil, hateful things. My research and activism are around violence against women and children.  I have an organization that provides education about human trafficking and helps HT victims/survivors.  It's often a struggle to understand how a young woman who has been victimized by pimps/johns would recruit other women into that life, but they do because it pleases their captor and they are rewarded.  I understand the trauma bond and the ways the victim has been "brainwashed," but it's hard to explain it to folks who have never experienced those types of relationships.

You are so right!  We have to take care of those little girls.  It continues to be incredible that we have so much in common--and some of the other folks on these boards, too.  I never want anyone to experience that kind of pain.  It's very sad.  But it's also encouraging to see that there is hope.  That I can learn how to feel differently about myself and my mother.  I hope you will do something wonderful and kind for yourself today. :-)

[justAkid]

Well,

My mother has responded to the letter I wrote her in which I set boundaries... .a second time. The first time was the day after and it was snarky and today she texted me and apology. This whole event is why I came to this message board in the first place. I feel conflicted. She still has not called me, so I can't hear her voice. Now that I am half way through Understanding the Borderline Mother I see that is something I need. I need to hear her tone, her body language. I need some clues to see if she is in her waif, her queen or her witch. I also need some more tools. I found Stop Walking On Eggshells to be helpful to give me some practical tools but I stop reading it to begin the mother book Friday night and all day Saturday. Also the Eggshells book was geared towards all Borderlines. But it has been helpful. I am curious about a book someone on here recommended to me called Surviving The Borderline Parent. But I need someone to give me some guidance on how to respond to her and what to do next. Do I tell her, thanks for your apology but I am serious about not being talked to like that? Do I tell her it hurt me? Or do I just say OK, thanks?

I feel like I'm walking in new territory here. I also do feel the old pull by her, "I'm so sorry, I love you so much." It has been SOO long since I've heard that. I want A mom, I just don't want THAT mom. I know better than to think anything is going to be different. But the words sound nice anyway.

I'm on episode 3 of Hannibal and I don't think I can watch it. I don't know why. Nothing gets to me. I can watch anything and everything. I watched Bates Motel. A client told me to watch it. I thought the mother in that seemed very Borderline now that I have had my eyes sort of opened to it. I'm not caught up on the current season but that was a disturbing show. Dexter was great of course. I didn't think of Dexter as Borderline at all. In fact, I'm not sure what to call him. That's why I so liked it. Such a complicated show.

So I'm halfway through Understanding The Borderline Mother. Nearly Done with the chapter on The Witch. I'm beginning to feel a lot of "now what?" Hopefully there will be some of that at the end of that. Or maybe I better hurry up and order that other book so I have it ready for the now what part. Especially since my mother has responded. My brother arrives from out of town this week and will be here all week. My sister from out of town still hasn't called me back, but I did see my other sister today because I took my little niece today for a few hours. She made no mention of anything. Which is a good sign. My anxiety is a dead give away that I'm having a hard time with this. I have counseling this week but not sure if my counseling will last much longer. I only went through my employee assistance program and I only have so many sessions. Grrrr.

Feeling frustrated and antsy and in need of how to navigate this. I think it is my desire to be "perfect" at work. I guess I don't have to read a book before I answer my mother. I guess I don't have to be perfect. I can do my best with the tools I have and take some small steps.

[Furandfeathers]

One of the things that was meaningful to me about the Borderline Mother book is that the author make recommendations depending on the "type" of your mother.  My mother can play the waif and the hermit and especially the queen, but the witch is always lurking underneath.  People always encourage communication and honesty to improve the relationship, but that does not work with my mother.  Maybe it will change in the future, but right now, I can't trust her with anything.  Even if she doesn't react now, it will come back to bite me in the future--because she NEVER forgets/forgives anything she perceives as a slight or can turn into a slight. This book is the first to acknowledge that.  The book does lay out a plan for dealing with BPD moms.  You'll know best whether it is an effective one for you. 

I remember you said your mom first sent you a five line response belittling your concerns.  Do you think she is apologizing now because she really "gets" it or because a sibling is visiting and she wants you to do/say something?  Or because she thinks you'll cave if she apologizes and things can go back to her normal?  It's hard to know what is sincere via text.  I would probably say thank you, and then wait and see what she does.  If you tell your mom that she hurt your feelings, will she be appropriately contrite/sad/sorry or will she see it as power over you?  I totally understand what you mean when you say you need to hear her voice and see her body language--all those little signs we have become adept at interpreting and responding to that others don't see.

I know what you mean about wanting a mom, just not the one you have.  My brother always says he wants to be close to family, but doesn't actually do anything to make that happen.  I always say he wants to be close to somebody else's family.  And who can blame him.  . I suppose I want a "good" family, too. 

Hannibal became more and more gruesome as the season went on.  I could have done without the vivid murders and focused more on the manipulation by the Hannibal character. That was the interesting part to me.  In fact, I probably would have quit watching much sooner because I don't like representations of violence as entertainment. 

May I suggest that you navigate this process a step at a time?  Perhaps you can lay out a plan with your therapist while you still have access to him, but what you need will probably change a lot as you go through the process.   You get to do things imperfectly and still be okay.  Be gentle and loving with yourself.  You've had the same mom for XX years.  It's going to take some time to change the ways you deal with and react to her. 

[SunshinePuzzle]

Hi Furandfeathers 

Just read your thread and wanted to thank you for sharing.  Like you, and justakid, and most of us on this 'healing' part of the board, I guess, I am new to this BPD discovery.  It was just a few weeks ago that an old friend and therapist clued me into this forum and to BPD in general.

Like you, I devoured "Understanding the Borderline Mother" and felt like finally - finally - things are starting to make sense.  I started highlighting passages that applied, without realizing I would need to cover pretty much the whole book in highlighter, haha. But it's been the single most helpful book I've ever read, in terms of understanding my mother and myself and what's "wrong" with our family.

My mom is most often the Queen-Witch, but she has a handful of Waif traits thrown in there for good measure. I don't think I am ready to do any kind of letter to her, like you did justakid, but I think it might help ME to write one and not send it.  I commend you for setting boundaries that way!

I am in a sort of stage where I am still processing everything with this new perspective, and also I'm experiencing a lot of emotion - have been all year actually - which is unusual for me.  Like you, I was most often the "good daughter," especially once I hit young adulthood and moved 3,000 miles away from her. It was easy to be the good one when I was that far away - I joked about it the same way you did. During that period of my life she'd call me and dump all of her negativity at everyone else onto me - talking trash about everyone and anyone in her immediate circle (my dad, bother and sister, aunts, cousins, great aunt, etc). That is the way she creates closeness with one of us: to talk crap about everyone else and "force team" a feeling that you are one of the 'good' ones who is not victimizing her.

Anyway, I related a lot to your experiences with your mom, like I have to a lot of folks on this board. I'm curious to read more of your posts (and yours justakid!) and am happy I'm not alone in this, as sad as I am that others have had similar experiences. Hang in there!

[Furandfeathers]

Hi SunshinePuzzle,  

I wouldn't wish a BPD mother on anyone, but it is nice to know others can understand/empathize/sympathize.  It makes me feel less confused/crazy.  I find myself saying, "why would she do that?" And then I answer myself, "'cause she has BPD."  Somehow, it takes some pressure off me.  I can't change her or help her, really.  I can only change and help myself.  Of course, as you mention, there is much to process and I've been quite emotional about it--unusual for me, too.  It's going to take some time.  I keep reminding myself that I've had the same mother for a bazillion years--I need to give myself time to adjust to this shift in my understanding of her and myself.  I think that's the hardest part for me.  All those years I blamed and punished myself when I couldn't have done anything to change the situation.  It makes me sick to think about how much I hated myself for my failures.

During that period of my life she'd call me and dump all of her negativity at everyone else onto me - talking trash about everyone and anyone in her immediate circle (my dad, bother and sister, aunts, cousins, great aunt, etc). That is the way she creates closeness with one of us: to talk crap about everyone else and "force team" a feeling that you are one of the 'good' ones who is not victimizing her. THIS THIS THIS!  Exactly!  She still wants to do that and I guess I let her more than I want to.  I really want to live my life with love and gentleness.  How to escape the relentless criticism and rage, and still maintain a relationship with her?   Is it even possible? 

I also marked up my book quite a bit.  Seems like every time I re-read a section, I have more to underline.     

I think my mom is also Queen-Witch with some Hermit thrown in.  She's started exhibiting some waif behaviors in the last couple of years, but then gets mad when I try to be helpful. 

Big hugs to you!

[justAkid]

Hi furandfeathers,

Long time. I've been swamped and overwhelmed. I finished The Borderline Mother and had a lot of processing to do. I found out my parents moved from social media. (We live in the same city). I'm back in touch with the sister I'm close to. Turns out she had no idea what awful letter my mother wrote me, And I've been very sick. I'm planning on dropping g by my parents new house this week to stop by and say hi and see it.

I only have two counseling appointments left. One is tomorrow. Been really struggling with my own flare up of PTSD and panic attacks since all of this and that makes me frustrated. I don't like feeling vulnerable. I'm very independent. I'm guessing me being sick is also due in part to the increase in stress.

Hope you are faring well. If I enter into a new type of relationship with my parents, I feel like I need a "next" book to read to help me navigate boundaries and how to keep my head clear. She's so good at confusing me.

Hard time lately.

Hope you are well,

justAkid

[JohnnyShoes]

Reading your story somehow gave me strength... .somehow gave me hope.

Wish I could go into details... .just have no time at the moment; about ready to go to work.

I just wanted to thank you and I'm hoping you find strength and the hope to BELIEVE that you will be better than ok.

(Sorry if I sounded like I'm rambling... lately my thoughts and emotions are off the charts)

[Turtleman]

Good afternoon Furandfeathers, I am experience some of issue of yours. It is very hard to tolerate a my own mother who blame me for everything,  It has become intolerance to be around her every time I come to see her in person. She could not even blame herself for something what she overlooks something to acknowledge that she is having a big problem. I feel very awkward to search for a support person to be neutral toward mother, and be supporting me to be in the same room with her for few hours. I no longer could be strong with a shield rebounded any nasty word from her own mouth toward me... Actually, every one of us who experience this not able to change or do something magic to make this situation any better in any way. All, I am currently trying to figure out what is the best solution to protect myself from being verbally attacked or something out from her acts toward me. She cannot even see how much I have been trying hard to show her some care, love, etc. for many, many, and many years. Her diseases cause her to be blind to see what harm she caused toward others and me in the family. Honestly, I truly wish to disown her to not need to deal with this at this point... It is not because I am selfish or something I am just lost the energy to keep it up with her at this point…

[Furandfeathers]

Justakid,

I've been super-swamped, too, and struggling to keep my head above water.  I've continued with therapy and I hope it will make a difference.  I'm very goal oriented and this is not one of those things where I can lay out a path to success.  I am struggling to acknowledge that I was abused.  I don't even like writing it, much less saying it.  And analyze my childhood?  I can't remember most of my childhood!  We had a discussion today about trauma and memory.  . 

Do you think it's a good thing your parents have moved (even though they didn't tell you--outrageous!)?  Does it get you more distance and space, or something else for her to focus on?  I'm so glad you got to talk to your sister.  I hate the ways my mom can play us against each other.  It's always better to talk directly to the sibling. 

I wish you had more counseling allowed in your plan.  Are there any support groups in your area that you could use to tide you over?  I don't have any good advice for PTSD.  I wish I did.  Instead, I'll just remind you: You know who you are!  You are not crazy.  You can make different choices now.  You are independent.  She needs you more than you need her.  You are strong and beautiful and smart.  You are loved and lovable.  You deserve good things. XOXO

[Furandfeathers]

Turtleman,

I'm so sorry your mother treats you like that!  Terrible!  No one deserves that kind of treatment.  It was hard for me to get help.  I am fortunate to have good insurance and found a good therapist (I asked friends for recommendations).  I've only been going a few weeks, but it helps a lot.  The therapist has helped me understand how distorted my perceptions of myself are--based on the way my mother has treated me for years.  I'm hoping that, in time, I will be able to deal with my mother in a way that is not harmful to either of us. 

My therapist told me something that I think is very important for all of us.  Grieve for the mother you always wanted and deserved, but did not have.  The mother you have will never be the mother you want and deserve.  One of the truths in this statement is exactly what you said--we can not change them.  We can only change our reaction to and interaction with them. 

I don't think you are selfish to want to stay away from your mother.  I think you are taking care of yourself.  And let's face it, no one else is going to do it for us.  We must care for ourselves. 

[Furandfeathers]

JohnnyShoes,

Thank you for your kind words. Your wish for me--the hope to believe that I will be better--is such a blessing! Thank you, thank you.  I wish the same for you! 

It's pretty confusing in my brain right now, too.  I've been thinking about this: If I didn't break before, I won't break now.  This is nothing compared to what I've already survived.  I hope the same is true for you--that you are on the mend. 

I remember as a child knowing I could survive, but wanting so badly to thrive.  I always knew the difference. 

I hope you are thriving. 

[justAkid]

furandfeathers,

I continue to be swamped with work and struggle with being sick off and on. I'm sure it's stress related.

I think them moving and not telling me is a good thing because I was not about to help them move! She has been reaching out in really strange ways recently over facebook. So awkward and clumsy. I am really noticing her social awkwardness. It's embarrassing sometimes. My dad called me just to chat. That was nice. It was about me and very appropriate for a parent. However she hasn't. Yet she did say she missed me over social media. I haven't been purposefully staying away. I've been very busy and very sick. I want to try to go see their new house soon. I had to ask my dad for their address!

Some of her comments have upset me though. I feel like she has me in a box. She sees me the way she INSISTS on seeing me. She has constructed a narrative throughout our lives (my siblings lives) that accounts for my behavior/ actions/ trauma response and this is how she explains it away. And her narrative is what makes me either the "good child" when I was young, the bad child when I was a teen or the lost child now. And it is also how she explains that for all the other siblings. I have seen this at work over the years, but it wasn't until I read The Borderline Mother that I had my "AH HA!" moment that this is what she does and that because we were children, she was able to convince us that this story is true of each other. So we more or less believe it about each other. Does that make sense? So we have put each other in that box. And while some of us have come to believe that my mom might be "sick" or "crazy" or whatever word we use for each other we haven't come to the conclusion yet that I have which is that WE aren't crazy, sick, bad, lost, druggie, dramatic, too fill in the blank... .whatever my mother has told the siblings about the other siblings. That narrative that has gone on our whole lives to explain the behaviors that we have used to cope with the trauma in our lives. The behaviors that in fact made a ton of sense. Or even sometimes the behavior that was just part of our personality but she would blow out of proportion and could twist to fit her narrative.

Am I making any sense?

So, this is where I am at right now. Because my relationship with my siblings is so vital to me. Because we survived a war together. Because despite the fact that it wasn't healthy or wasn't right - I was their parent. And I love them so much. And I don't want to be separated from them and it is painful to think of her telling them the narrative she is for why I am not seeing her. (And I have reason to believe she is saying things based on just the things she is saying to me on facebook).

And I wonder if I even attempt to correct her misconceptions of me? If I try to correct her wrong identity of me and push out of the box she continues to put me in or is it useless because she will see and hear what she chooses to? I know one thing. I WILL speak up when I hear one of my siblings say something wrong or that sounds like the "narrative" about another sibling. I will speak up when I hear them say something that I know is from her tapes. If you know what I mean. I am on a mission to let each of us be us and not live in a box with labels anymore. I guess this is me being goal oriented too. I can relate to that. I am as well.

I have two sessions of therapy left and I am spreading them out. I haven't even made the next appointment yet. I really like the guy. Too bad.  :'(

It took me years to admit I was abused. It was when I was first in therapy as a kid. I started therapy at 17 and was in for years. At first I would get furious at her if she suggested it. It literally took years and years. And then I only used the first initials for the words. I would have a physical reaction to the words. I can ABSOLUTELY understand and relate 110% to this! Be gentle. Go slow. Practice by yourself and with a friend if you have someone. Or here, with me. Say it here. Say it until it looses it's power over you.

I'm reading The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk. I found him decades ago, but this book is new. Great great great stuff about trauma and memory and why you don't remember. Heady. But I love neuroscience and heady. I have a lot of recommendations for reading about trauma if you want to read due to my job/ history.

Sorry to have waited so long to write back. I wanted to get on here this morning to write about the narrative our BPD parents give us about our siblings and see if anyone has that experience. Then I saw you wrote. Take care of YOURSELF!

justAkid