My marriage is sexless

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I just read the article in bpdfamily about Radical Acceptance.

I had an incorrect understanding of what this actually meant.  I thought RA meant:

Poor Surg_Bear.  His marriage is sexless and he is not happy with this.

Radical Acceptance = Surg_Bear has to buck up and accept sexless and accept being unhappy forever.

What I now understand about radical acceptance is that Surg_Bear’s sexless marriage is and will forever be sexless.  No amount of begging, cajoling, threatening, or ultimatum laying will change that.  How is Surg_Bear going to accept this truth?

Surg_Bear had a moment of clarity during a couples therapy session and saw that this relationship is impossible.  He stood up for himself, and said so... ."this is impossible.  The marriage is impossible to fix.  I am wasting my time trying to fix something that cannot be fixed.  It is OVER."  The expectations and demands upon Surg_Bear are impossible to meet.  The wife's expectation that Surg_Bear will not express anger (ever) and “ideally” never experience anger at all, is impossible.  The payoff for living this impossibly impossible daydream, is disconnected, passionless sex once a year.  This impossible life is not for Surg_Bear.

I accept that this marriage is an awful piece of s*it on multiple levels.  I cannot begin to clean up all the s*it.  Nor do I want to continue to try and clean up all the s*it.

I am radically accepting that this marriage requires me to shovel s*it for the rest of my life.

I was strong enough to escape a s*itty childhood where there was precious little for me to be a boy about- I had to step up and be a little man, and give up being a boy.  I did that and did not fall into a barrel of disabling mental illness, like my barely functioning permanently disabled sibling.  I became a champion healer.  I am a hero to people.  People look up to me because I am caring, and loving, and really f*cking good at what I do.

As I leave this marriage, I am willing to accept that life will treat me the same.

I will not die alone, without anyone to love and touch, and make love to- because I am strong enough to escape a s*itty marriage where there was precious little for me to be a husband about- I had to step up and be a live-in attachment therapist, and take abuse and neglect myself for the sake of the s*it shoveling marriage I bought into. From her point of view, I can only be “allowed” to be a husband if I first become attuned as an attachment therapist, and undo all of the f*cking sickening emotional torture my In-Laws did to my poor wife when she was a child.  There’s no f*cking way.  Impossible.

My s*itty marriage has made me oblivious to the numerous lustful stares and admiring glances that people give me because even though I am chubby and hairy, many people are attracted to chubby and hairy- especially rich, chubby and hairy.  I know I can be an attuned, caring and passionate lover to someone who would just give me the chance to practice.

I’m already partway down the road of radical acceptance, and I thought I had just experienced a moment of clarity about the impossible trap that defines my marriage.

I can still be angry about things.  My feelings are mine.  If my feelings make someone upset, that’s their problem.  I’ll deal with my feelings, and they can deal with their problem(s)- of which there are thousands.  They meaning she, and she meaning Mrs / Dr Surg_Bear. (She's a Dr of Clinical Psychology).

I am LEAVING Marriage Impossible.

Love,

Surg_Bear

[Surg_Bear]

I just read the article in bpdfamily about Radical Acceptance.

I had an incorrect understanding of what this actually meant.  I thought RA meant:

Poor Surg_Bear.  His marriage is sexless and he is not happy with this.

Radical Acceptance = Surg_Bear has to buck up and accept sexless and accept being unhappy forever.

What I now understand about radical acceptance is that Surg_Bear’s sexless marriage is and will forever be sexless.  No amount of begging, cajoling, threatening, or ultimatum laying will change that.  How is Surg_Bear going to accept this truth?

Surg_Bear had a moment of clarity during a couples therapy session and saw that this relationship is impossible.  He stood up for himself, and said so... ."this is impossible.  The marriage is impossible to fix.  I am wasting my time trying to fix something that cannot be fixed.  It is OVER."  The expectations and demands upon Surg_Bear are impossible to meet.  The wife's expectation that Surg_Bear will not express anger (ever) and “ideally” never experience anger at all, is impossible.  The payoff for living this impossibly impossible daydream, is disconnected, passionless sex once a year.  This impossible life is not for Surg_Bear.

I accept that this marriage is an awful piece of s*it on multiple levels.  I cannot begin to clean up all the s*it.  Nor do I want to continue to try and clean up all the s*it.

I am radically accepting that this marriage requires me to shovel s*it for the rest of my life.

I was strong enough to escape a s*itty childhood where there was precious little for me to be a boy about- I had to step up and be a little man, and give up being a boy.  I did that and did not fall into a barrel of disabling mental illness, like my barely functioning permanently disabled sibling.  I became a champion healer.  I am a hero to people.  People look up to me because I am caring, and loving, and really f*cking good at what I do.

As I leave this marriage, I am willing to accept that life will treat me the same.

I will not die alone, without anyone to love and touch, and make love to- because I am strong enough to escape a s*itty marriage where there was precious little for me to be a husband about- I had to step up and be a live-in attachment therapist, and take abuse and neglect myself for the sake of the s*it shoveling marriage I bought into. From her point of view, I can only be “allowed” to be a husband if I first become attuned as an attachment therapist, and undo all of the f*cking sickening emotional torture my In-Laws did to my poor wife when she was a child.  There’s no f*cking way.  Impossible.

My s*itty marriage has made me oblivious to the numerous lustful stares and admiring glances that people give me because even though I am chubby and hairy, many people are attracted to chubby and hairy- especially rich, chubby and hairy.  I know I can be an attuned, caring and passionate lover to someone who would just give me the chance to practice.

I’m already partway down the road of radical acceptance, and I thought I had just experienced a moment of clarity about the impossible trap that defines my marriage.

I can still be angry about things.  My feelings are mine.  If my feelings make someone upset, that’s their problem.  I’ll deal with my feelings, and they can deal with their problem(s)- of which there are thousands.  They meaning she, and she meaning Mrs / Dr Surg_Bear. (She's a Dr of Clinical Psychology).

I am LEAVING Marriage Impossible.

Love,

Surg_Bear

[Yolanda123]

 

Wishing you what you deserve Surg Bear – to be loved, heard, cherished and appreciated as the great caring, patient, giving human being that you are. 

[Michelle27]

You said it so much better than I ever did/could, but I remember reaching this point of radical acceptance myself. I've always been a positive, hopeful, "glass half full" kind of person, but I realized that hope and acceptance are not something I could do at the same time when it came to the state of my marriage.  I also have difficulty with admitting defeat and that's part of what kept me hanging on long after anyone else would have.  I also had a therapist I worked with for about 7 months that helped me see things in a new way which helped with that acceptance.

[Mutt]

HI Surg_Bear,

I'm sorry you're going through all of this.

You are strong with what you've achieved from a tough childhood.

I see you read our article on radical acceptance. We can apply radical acceptance on painful events in our lives ( marriage, childhood)

There are three stages with RA, The first stage is accepting reality for what it is. The second stage with RA is accepting that painful events has a cause and the third stage is accepting that our lives are worth living with these events in it.

[Skip]

RA means my wife is who she is.  It means your Saab is Saab and not a BMW. It means that your untrained biting dog will probably bite you.

RA doesn't mean your marriage is impossible. It doesn't mean a Saab sucks.  It doesn't mean the dog needs to be euthanized.

Know what the difference is in these two lines of text?

[Surg_Bear]

It doesn't mean a Saab sucks.  It doesn't mean the dog needs to be euthanized.

Know what the difference is in these two lines of text?

My SAAB has 22,000 miles and is 11 years old.  A money-sucking garage queen that has plastic bits falling apart all over the interior.  My SAAB needs to be euthanized.

The dog is not inherently evil- unless left in the untrained biting stage of living.

RA does not always require abandoning the radically accepted condition- unless it is a SAAB.  It requires we accept that the condition will never change.

Because my wife has stated emphatically that sex will not happen as long as I carry anger in my heart.  For any reason.  She will not discuss sex with me, or in the safety of couples therapy.  She has "drawn a line in the sand" about everything having to do with sex.  How is that humanely possible?  My marriage is not impossible because of BPD.  It is impossible because I am tired of the million hoops I have to jump through to get laid.  I accept 100% that the hoops will never change.  I am the reason the marriage is impossible- I will NOT jump through the hoops any longer.  A sexless marriage violates MY core beliefs about what defines a marriage.  My current marriage is impossible.

Marriage is not impossible.

BPD marriage is not impossible.

My BPD marriage is impossible.  I know this because I am living it.

If my spouse had a medical condition that made sex impossible, the marriage itself would not be impossible for me- IF they were willing to explore ALL options to have intimacy met for both partners.  Forced celibacy would be a deal breaker- no matter what the reason.  I would be willing to accept the converse if I were medically unable- but the only way I would be medically unable - even with untreatable erectile dysfunction - is if I were dead.  I would still want- to the core of my being (limp nubbin and all)- want to pleasure someone who identifies as my spouse.  It would be my marital duty, and that would not be a sexless marriage.

I am very clear on the concepts of RA, now.

I wish I didn't love my crappy SAAB convertible so much.

Same goes for my wife.  Which is why I am separating with love, kindness, and compassion.  I am not ending our relationship, I am drastically changing it.  We are living together, still.  I wish, to the core of my being, to keep my wife as a best life friend forever.  I cannot leave a 25 year relationship and never look back.  Just can't.

Surg_Bear

[UndauntedDad]

You go, Surg_bear! 

I found your post inspiring, because so many parts were familiar to my own situation.

It is really hard, when you are a Fixer (you're a surgeon, right?), to leave or gain distance from someone who is as obviously in distress as most pwBPD.  But sometimes it is the most compassionate thing we can do; not everyone can be fixed by you.

Don't forget to put on your own oxygen mask first.  Just because many people can survive without oxygen for a few minutes, does not mean they can do so indefinitely. I think you are figuring out what your "oxygen" is.

[Conundrum]

Because my wife has stated emphatically that sex will not happen as long as I carry anger in my heart.  For any reason.  She will not discuss sex with me, or in the safety of couples therapy.  She has "drawn a line in the sand" about everything having to do with sex.  How is that humanely possible? 

I'm sorry to read about your suffering.

Do you buy into her "anger in the heart" claim or is that a controlling trope?  Sex isn't always rainbows and unicorns... .

Withholding sex, often is symbolic of resentment/control. The proximate cause for her resentment may have little to do with you, but everything to do with the disorder. While her hurtful words and lack of reciprocal action are targeted at you--that is because you are the proximate, intimate placeholder for her own internal struggle with self.

These kaleidoscope patterns make little relational sense (as we all know) but create their own sense of soothing stability in which relational roles never change. When relational roles are cast in stone (even if improvement is sorely needed), that alleviates fear of abandonment. These are people with very damaged relational compasses and a stable dysfunctional relationship (oxymoron) often is safer than aspiring towards unknown change. Therefore, control mechanisms are used to preserve the status quo. The very thing that they desperately want to avoid (abandonment) they promote via maladaptive relational tools.

The relational situation you're describing twists a non into a mass of self-doubt concomitant with an obligation to fix. We can be stewards in these relationships, with integrity--but sacrificing our essential beings upon a disordered cross is never the way. I wish you the best possible outcome.       

[KateCat]

We can be stewards in these relationships, with integrity--but sacrificing our essential beings upon a disordered cross is never the way.

Surg-Bear, if you were to accept this proposition as more or less absolutely true, would it make sense for you to continue to live in the same house with your wife? (I'm thinking either for the pendency of a divorce action or for a scenario "beyond," which I believe you may have envisioned.)

I get the sense you are still in internal conflict of some sort. (Well, not of "some sort," but of exactly the sort Conundrum has described.)

[Surg_Bear]

Because my wife has stated emphatically that sex will not happen as long as I carry anger in my heart.  For any reason.  She will not discuss sex with me, or in the safety of couples therapy.  She has "drawn a line in the sand" about everything having to do with sex.  How is that humanely possible? 

I'm sorry to read about your suffering.

Do you buy into her "anger in the heart" claim or is that a controlling trope?  Sex isn't always rainbows and unicorns... .

Withholding sex, often is symbolic of resentment/control. The proximate cause for her resentment may have little to do with you, but everything to do with the disorder. While her hurtful words and lack of reciprocal action are targeted at you--that is because you are the proximate, intimate placeholder for her own internal struggle with self.

The relational situation you're describing twists a non into a mass of self-doubt concomitant with an obligation to fix. We can be stewards in these relationships, with integrity--but sacrificing our essential beings upon a disordered cross is never the way. I wish you the best possible outcome.       

The anger she sees in my heart is a lie.  She thinks I have pent up, unexpressed anger at her for the "sex debt [she] could never repay."  I am not angry all of the time.  I'm actually angry at her very little. 

I believe it is her guilt that she cannot overcome.  She does not want me sexually, and will not meet me halfway, or in any way to mediate this situation. She said she would not discuss sex in couples therapy or with me alone.  Sex is off the table.

I can feel my sex drive diminishing because of my age.  In my head I want to be the multiply capable, ready to go at any time guy I used to be.  I'm not, plus I'm on three meds that make things work even less reliably.  I'm struggling in my therapy with a mid-life crisis, and my wife's response to this knowledge is to withdraw sex completely.  She is creating the situation she fears most- abandonment.

I have been a steward for too long.  This relationship is too much for me to bear any longer.  This is why I have given up my hope, accepted defeat, and have begun to walk the walk of RA.  This is not going to change. 

I am struggling with my own big issues- I watch people die in my line of work.  Sometimes, I am witness to a too-early, unexpected death.  I feel like achieving a sense of calm in this internal need for physical affection is something I need to do before I die.  I am not asking to be remembered by how awesome a sexual stud I was after I die- this need for physical affection is a need that has been unmet for my entire adult life.  I have been with this single partner since I was 22.  I'm going to be 48 soon.  I feel like I'm still waiting for the honeymoon sex to happen.  This is the title of my first post on bpdfamily- Still Waiting For The Honeymoon.  There is some really good, and gory detailed reading there.

Thank you for holding my situation in your minds and hearts.

Surg_Bear

[Skip]

If the sexual problem was resolved, would you stay?

[workinprogress]

Because my wife has stated emphatically that sex will not happen as long as I carry anger in my heart.  For any reason.  She will not discuss sex with me, or in the safety of couples therapy.  She has "drawn a line in the sand" about everything having to do with sex.  How is that humanely possible? 

I'm sorry to read about your suffering.

Do you buy into her "anger in the heart" claim or is that a controlling trope?  Sex isn't always rainbows and unicorns... .

Withholding sex, often is symbolic of resentment/control. The proximate cause for her resentment may have little to do with you, but everything to do with the disorder. While her hurtful words and lack of reciprocal action are targeted at you--that is because you are the proximate, intimate placeholder for her own internal struggle with self.

The relational situation you're describing twists a non into a mass of self-doubt concomitant with an obligation to fix. We can be stewards in these relationships, with integrity--but sacrificing our essential beings upon a disordered cross is never the way. I wish you the best possible outcome.       

The anger she sees in my heart is a lie.  She thinks I have pent up, unexpressed anger at her for the "sex debt [she] could never repay."  I am not angry all of the time.  I'm actually angry at her very little. 

I believe it is her guilt that she cannot overcome.  She does not want me sexually, and will not meet me halfway, or in any way to mediate this situation. She said she would not discuss sex in couples therapy or with me alone.  Sex is off the table.

I can feel my sex drive diminishing because of my age.  In my head I want to be the multiply capable, ready to go at any time guy I used to be.  I'm not, plus I'm on three meds that make things work even less reliably.  I'm struggling in my therapy with a mid-life crisis, and my wife's response to this knowledge is to withdraw sex completely.  She is creating the situation she fears most- abandonment.

I have been a steward for too long.  This relationship is too much for me to bear any longer.  This is why I have given up my hope, accepted defeat, and have begun to walk the walk of RA.  This is not going to change. 

I am struggling with my own big issues- I watch people die in my line of work.  Sometimes, I am witness to a too-early, unexpected death.  I feel like achieving a sense of calm in this internal need for physical affection is something I need to do before I die.  I am not asking to be remembered by how awesome a sexual stud I was after I die- this need for physical affection is a need that has been unmet for my entire adult life.  I have been with this single partner since I was 22.  I'm going to be 48 soon.  I feel like I'm still waiting for the honeymoon sex to happen.  This is the title of my first post on bpdfamily- Still Waiting For The Honeymoon.  There is some really good, and gory detailed reading there.

Thank you for holding my situation in your minds and hearts.

Surg_Bear

Surg Bear, I just turned 48.  What I miss the most in my marriage is just general affection.  I would love sex!  Although, I have been denied it for so long that I don't even know how I would respond.  It is heartbreaking.

You have expressed yourself eloquently in this thread.  You have expressed the same situation that I am in.  Thank you for posting all of this!

[Surg_Bear]

If the sexual problem was resolved, would you stay?

Three months ago, the answer would have been: YES.

Now, I have arrived at acceptance, and have admitted defeat, and so the answer is a resounding NO.  It is over.  I am not actively seeking sex with her, and because of all the strings that would be attached, I would not accept it even if she offered.

There is no way to fix this now.

Surg_Bear

[wavelife]

Thank you for sharing!  My situation was pretty much identical although the marriage only lasted two years.  I too am at the same point in healing and recovery.  Complete and utter acceptance... .there was nothing I could have done or should not have done to change the outcome.

Thanks again