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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Her extreme fear/avoidance of me after the final discard  (Read 9148 times)
Learning_curve74
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« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2015, 12:25:20 PM »

do you have perspective regarding her behavior?

I did give my perspective on her behavior - that she does not want to have contact. Beyond that, only she knows for sure.

HappyNihilist hits the nail on the head. Nobody except her knows why she is doing what she is doing, and even then there's a chance she doesn't even know why she is doing it because it may just be a typical emotional response for her in these types of stressful situations. Whatever the root emotions involved, you know that this is her coping strategy in this instance.

After my exgf and I called it quits, she sent me a couple things on social media but it's been silence ever since. I still have some of her stuff from when we separated our household, but some is in boxes some mixed in with mine, so I haven't gotten around to asking her to pick that stuff up. So I guess it's mutual, though it doesn't bother me. Everybody is different, I know she was paranoid and afraid of her exbf before me (they parted on very bad terms, supposedly violence involved), but I believe she is simply too ashamed as well as afraid of bringing up extremely sad feelings to contact me (we split on fairly friendly terms). But these are all just conjecture on my part.

JRT, it's good that you feel like you're taking control and being active by suing her, that's positive. However, it's also good to look down the line because you won't be able to tell what will happen after that. You may win but then she can still ignore the judgement, then what happens: are you then going to garnish her wages or put a lien on her property? That may be perfectly fine for you especially if you are dispassionate about it. However, to outside observers like the forumites here, it sounds like a lack of detachment which is why you got a lot of advice instead of simply insight behind her actions. Which is cool -- everybody has their own path, hopefully yours is a one that leads to better days! 
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2015, 01:45:42 PM »

JRT, it's good that you feel like you're taking control and being active by suing her, that's positive. However, it's also good to look down the line because you won't be able to tell what will happen after that. You may win but then she can still ignore the judgement, then what happens: are you then going to garnish her wages or put a lien on her property?

It's certainly worth considering. Just as Once Removed, I ignored my better judgement and tried to retrieve some miscellanous stuff that could be easily replaced. Only sent out one guilt inducing email, 9 months later still having deep shame and regret about that. It wasn't about items, but a desperate passive aggressive attempt to regain some control.
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JRT
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« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2015, 03:47:44 PM »

JRT,

Get out of the FOG!

What is happening is that you felt obligation to contact her to make closure, now most of the users here acuse you of continue to contact her although she said not to and had blocked you. Meaning that now you are suppose to feel guilty! But you are not guilty! Change the focus from her to yourself, change your thoughts and stop trying to contact her in order to stop the feelings of fear,obligation, guilt.

It is a good idea to read the book Stop Caretaking Borderline. It is a very good book.

Thanks for your advice, it was nice for you to provide it. Do you have any perspective as to her avoidance and what is causing it? Did you have a partner that behaved like this?

I have the same issue, mine is avoiding me like a mouse from a cat. If she sees me, she runs. I am blocked from everywhere and I am blamed for this happening. Here is a quote why she is running and why you are painted black:

"It might help to realize that the reason this is happening is because pwBPD are triggered by emotional intimacy.  Without a significant degree of emotional intimacy the disorder would never be triggered.  It may be hard to accept, but your gf is running away because she is so close to you.  That doesn't make rational sense - it can only be understood without the mindset of the disorder.  It is very real for her, however, and it's important to remember that.  This is her reality and the only one she knows.  It's also important to realize that you are a trigger right now.  This is not your fault.  There is nothing that you did to cause this.  It's not because you aren't good enough.  It's not because of anything you did or didn't do.  This is just the disorder at work.  Being a trigger, however, means that it is very hard for your gf to have contact with you because it is stirring up overwhelming emotions.  She doesn't have the ability to self soothe"

LM, thanks you so very much... .this is the kind of thing that I was looking for... .sorry to hear that this also happened to you... .I would also venture to guess that the greater amount of emotional intimacy that was shared, the more radical and extreme the cutoff? The cutoff was proportional? I wish I knew a bit about your back story.

Its sad this disorder where it sounds like your (and my) relationship could have had the potential to result in a happy lifetime for you and her. In reality, pain and confusion instead.
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JRT
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« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2015, 03:57:56 PM »

do you have perspective regarding her behavior?

I did give my perspective on her behavior - that she does not want to have contact. Beyond that, only she knows for sure.

HappyNihilist hits the nail on the head. Nobody except her knows why she is doing what she is doing, and even then there's a chance she doesn't even know why she is doing it because it may just be a typical emotional response for her in these types of stressful situations. Whatever the root emotions involved, you know that this is her coping strategy in this instance.

After my exgf and I called it quits, she sent me a couple things on social media but it's been silence ever since. I still have some of her stuff from when we separated our household, but some is in boxes some mixed in with mine, so I haven't gotten around to asking her to pick that stuff up. So I guess it's mutual, though it doesn't bother me. Everybody is different, I know she was paranoid and afraid of her exbf before me (they parted on very bad terms, supposedly violence involved), but I believe she is simply too ashamed as well as afraid of bringing up extremely sad feelings to contact me (we split on fairly friendly terms). But these are all just conjecture on my part.

JRT, it's good that you feel like you're taking control and being active by suing her, that's positive. However, it's also good to look down the line because you won't be able to tell what will happen after that. You may win but then she can still ignore the judgement, then what happens: are you then going to garnish her wages or put a lien on her property? That may be perfectly fine for you especially if you are dispassionate about it. However, to outside observers like the forumites here, it sounds like a lack of detachment which is why you got a lot of advice instead of simply insight behind her actions. Which is cool -- everybody has their own path, hopefully yours is a one that leads to better days! 

I really wanted to thank you for your perspective on this, your situation shares some similarities to mine. I think that you are 100% correct, we all have our own path and mine seems to not conform to the standard. I have never been a victim or felt powerless ever in my life; the wake of this relationship resulted in exactly this. Its a REALLY sh***y feeling I have to tell you. I can't imagine the feeling of being raped but it would have to guess that it is similar. Taking control and doing something proactive was a HUGE step for me in regaining that control and sense of power (especially having the police and the lawyer admit to me candidly that they had no case against me), I realized that much of this was about power and much of hers was lost due to my proactivity.

The ring meant a lot to me and I want it returned. I am fully within my rights and entirely reasonable to ask for its return. So, yes, if she does not return it should the judgment be rendered in my favor, I will absolutely seek whatever legal remedy available to me in order to secure its return. That will be another victory for me. At this point, I really don't care what she thinks. 
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JRT
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« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2015, 04:00:21 PM »

JRT, it's good that you feel like you're taking control and being active by suing her, that's positive. However, it's also good to look down the line because you won't be able to tell what will happen after that. You may win but then she can still ignore the judgement, then what happens: are you then going to garnish her wages or put a lien on her property?

It's certainly worth considering. Just as Once Removed, I ignored my better judgement and tried to retrieve some miscellanous stuff that could be easily replaced. Only sent out one guilt inducing email, 9 months later still having deep shame and regret about that. It wasn't about items, but a desperate passive aggressive attempt to regain some control.

Boris... .I don't understand... .if the stuff was your property and she was not willing to return them, why would you regret having exercised your right to have you things returned to you and be ashamed? This didn't result in some sense of empowerment for you? You got your stuff back.
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Loosestrife
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2015, 04:16:57 PM »

Is the ring worth more than your sanity or your freedom? Does it really mean a lot to you? Just some thoughts... .
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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2015, 04:37:27 PM »

JRT, you and I have written together before, so hopefully my comments here are going to be taken the right way.

Based on the very strong emotions you are exhibiting in your posts, the way I see things is that you are scaring the crap out of her, as would probably be the case for any woman facing what you have been delivering.

You say that the ring is very dear to you but you make a very strong point of explaining how the act of getting the ring back is giving you a sense of regaining you power, after she robbed it from you. Which is most important and the way I see it, all of the emotions that you are expending now in fact means that she continues to have power over you. You are going through an incredible amount of extra "work" that you wouldn't do if it wasn't for her. So is this really empowering you?

I tell what has made me feel empowered, it is that no matter how much I miss the part of her that I do, I have not reached out to her and my last communication was a, I love you but please never contact me again. That was taking back my power, after she reached out to me. By going silent I made her think about me and to my complete surprise she did try to reach out to me and that is when I calmly sent a message back saying, "no more".

I mean this with the utmost respect, with a reminder that I was deeply in love with my ex, we lived together for 4 years and she chased a replacement. I was as angry as you are. I had to let go of it or it would drive me insane. All I hear in you is anger and confusion. You want answers as to why, but you have been on here long enough to know that there aren't any answers. No one here can tell you what you want to hear.

By chasing that ring, all you are doing is prolonging that anger. I am pretty certain that if and when you get that ring back it isn't going to feel as empowering as you think it will. It will probably feel pretty hollow. The most empowering thing you can do, IMHO is to regain control and let go of the hope of ever getting the answers you want. Your original question speak to you actually being hurt by her fear and avoidance but maybe if you pull back and allow the situation some space and breathing room, she might eventually lose that fear and avoidance.

In my view, given everything that has transpired so far, the MOST empowering thing you can do that will throw her off, is to completely back off. Go radio silent, do not pursue the ring or the lawyer, just suddenly fall of the face of her earth. If you give her space to actually think, then it is very possible that she will start to think about what caused you to react the way you are and she could end up feeling guilty and simply giving you the ring back. You shouldn't expect it in a week or even a month and if you don't get it, start up again, but rather you should just back off indefinitely. THIS IS HOW you take back control.

I hope I made sense and didn't offend. It is meant to be caring and helpful, not accusatory or demeaning. I know the pain you are going through and the anger. I have been there and to a degree still am. The reason we are all here is because we know.
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JRT
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2015, 05:15:41 PM »

Is the ring worth more than your sanity or your freedom? Does it really mean a lot to you? Just some thoughts... .

Getting the ring back will lead to insanity?

Yes... .DOUBLE yes, it IS worth that much to me and getting it back is worth even more.
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JRT
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« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2015, 05:21:52 PM »

JRT, you and I have written together before, so hopefully my comments here are going to be taken the right way.

Based on the very strong emotions you are exhibiting in your posts, the way I see things is that you are scaring the crap out of her, as would probably be the case for any woman facing what you have been delivering.

You say that the ring is very dear to you but you make a very strong point of explaining how the act of getting the ring back is giving you a sense of regaining you power, after she robbed it from you. Which is most important and the way I see it, all of the emotions that you are expending now in fact means that she continues to have power over you. You are going through an incredible amount of extra "work" that you wouldn't do if it wasn't for her. So is this really empowering you?

I tell what has made me feel empowered, it is that no matter how much I miss the part of her that I do, I have not reached out to her and my last communication was a, I love you but please never contact me again. That was taking back my power, after she reached out to me. By going silent I made her think about me and to my complete surprise she did try to reach out to me and that is when I calmly sent a message back saying, "no more".

I mean this with the utmost respect, with a reminder that I was deeply in love with my ex, we lived together for 4 years and she chased a replacement. I was as angry as you are. I had to let go of it or it would drive me insane. All I hear in you is anger and confusion. You want answers as to why, but you have been on here long enough to know that there aren't any answers. No one here can tell you what you want to hear.

By chasing that ring, all you are doing is prolonging that anger. I am pretty certain that if and when you get that ring back it isn't going to feel as empowering as you think it will. It will probably feel pretty hollow. The most empowering thing you can do, IMHO is to regain control and let go of the hope of ever getting the answers you want. Your original question speak to you actually being hurt by her fear and avoidance but maybe if you pull back and allow the situation some space and breathing room, she might eventually lose that fear and avoidance.

In my view, given everything that has transpired so far, the MOST empowering thing you can do that will throw her off, is to completely back off. Go radio silent, do not pursue the ring or the lawyer, just suddenly fall of the face of her earth. If you give her space to actually think, then it is very possible that she will start to think about what caused you to react the way you are and she could end up feeling guilty and simply giving you the ring back. You shouldn't expect it in a week or even a month and if you don't get it, start up again, but rather you should just back off indefinitely. THIS IS HOW you take back control.

I hope I made sense and didn't offend. It is meant to be caring and helpful, not accusatory or demeaning. I know the pain you are going through and the anger. I have been there and to a degree still am. The reason we are all here is because we know.

I REALLY appreciate your post and don't take it the wrong way at all.

I do not feel angry at all... .she DID have power over me (some) until I filed that lawsuit... .even less when she went to the cops to see if they could stop the lawsuit (since it was 'contact'... .even though there was no legal instrument in place to prevent contact)... .I now see her as pathetic and desperate, not imposing and empowered... .

The path to closure is different for everyone... .this is the path that I decided upon... .candidly, the 'just take it on the chin' approach has NEVER worked for me and didn't in this case for 11 months... .maybe that makes me bad... .or maybe, its something to think about for others in a similar situation. I can tell you this; I am almost back to 100% right now thanks to my actions last week.

Thanks again for your post, it gave me much to consider.
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KateCat
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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2015, 05:49:18 PM »

Is the ring worth more than your sanity or your freedom? Does it really mean a lot to you? Just some thoughts... .

Getting the ring back will lead to insanity?

Yes... .DOUBLE yes, it IS worth that much to me and getting it back is worth even more.

I can't help but be reminded of Lord of the Rings here. I apologize for that.

JRT, I'm sorry you're struggling so badly. Do you have a counselor to speak to?
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HappyNihilist
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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2015, 05:55:19 PM »

I definitely understand the need to feel empowered after emotional devastation. 

I just wonder that maybe this move won't end up making you feel truly empowered. Like LimboFL said, I think it may feel hollow instead. Empowerment comes from within - you have everything already within you to find it. You don't need to let your sense of power be defined in any way by your ex and your relationship.

I hope you take LimboFL's very insightful post to heart.

You say that the ring is very dear to you but you make a very strong point of explaining how the act of getting the ring back is giving you a sense of regaining you power, after she robbed it from you. Which is most important and the way I see it, all of the emotions that you are expending now in fact means that she continues to have power over you. You are going through an incredible amount of extra "work" that you wouldn't do if it wasn't for her. So is this really empowering you?

I simply don't see how doing nothing nothing and 'respecting her boundaries' restores a sense of control and empowerment over a situation that was lost by what she had done

It sucks feeling powerless and helpless. Radical acceptance can help a lot with this. You can't control the situation. Any situation. There's very little that we have control over: what we say and what we do. We can try to influence situations with our actions/words, but we can't control them. Believing that we can somehow control them makes us feel devastated and powerless when we're confronted with a serious situation that we can't influence to go the way we think it should, no matter what we do.

Accepting that there are only two things we can control in this great big world, and letting go of the need for control - that is empowering and freeing.

Mutt's signature is a Zen proverb - "Let go or be dragged."

Do you believe that her boundaries are less valid than your need for control? Is your need for empowerment causing you to act in ways that are contrary to your values? If so, then that isn't being true to You. Being true to yourself and your values is empowering.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

However, to outside observers like the forumites here, it sounds like a lack of detachment which is why you got a lot of advice instead of simply insight behind her actions. Which is cool -- everybody has their own path, hopefully yours is a one that leads to better days

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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JRT
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« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2015, 06:57:46 PM »

Is the ring worth more than your sanity or your freedom? Does it really mean a lot to you? Just some thoughts... .

Getting the ring back will lead to insanity?

Yes... .DOUBLE yes, it IS worth that much to me and getting it back is worth even more.

I can't help but be reminded of Lord of the Rings here. I apologize for that.

JRT, I'm sorry you're struggling so badly. Do you have a counselor to speak to?

But I am NOT struggling so badly, but thanks. I feel GREAT! This was the best thing that I have done.

Lord of the Rings?
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JRT
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« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2015, 07:03:49 PM »

I definitely understand the need to feel empowered after emotional devastation. 

I just wonder that maybe this move won't end up making you feel truly empowered. Like LimboFL said, I think it may feel hollow instead. Empowerment comes from within - you have everything already within you to find it. You don't need to let your sense of power be defined in any way by your ex and your relationship.

I hope you take LimboFL's very insightful post to heart.

You say that the ring is very dear to you but you make a very strong point of explaining how the act of getting the ring back is giving you a sense of regaining you power, after she robbed it from you. Which is most important and the way I see it, all of the emotions that you are expending now in fact means that she continues to have power over you. You are going through an incredible amount of extra "work" that you wouldn't do if it wasn't for her. So is this really empowering you?

I simply don't see how doing nothing nothing and 'respecting her boundaries' restores a sense of control and empowerment over a situation that was lost by what she had done

It sucks feeling powerless and helpless. Radical acceptance can help a lot with this. You can't control the situation. Any situation. There's very little that we have control over: what we say and what we do. We can try to influence situations with our actions/words, but we can't control them. Believing that we can somehow control them makes us feel devastated and powerless when we're confronted with a serious situation that we can't influence to go the way we think it should, no matter what we do.

Accepting that there are only two things we can control in this great big world, and letting go of the need for control - that is empowering and freeing.

Mutt's signature is a Zen proverb - "Let go or be dragged."

Do you believe that her boundaries are less valid than your need for control? Is your need for empowerment causing you to act in ways that are contrary to your values? If so, then that isn't being true to You. Being true to yourself and your values is empowering.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

However, to outside observers like the forumites here, it sounds like a lack of detachment which is why you got a lot of advice instead of simply insight behind her actions. Which is cool -- everybody has their own path, hopefully yours is a one that leads to better days

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Thanks for your thoughts on this again HN... .again, I was looking for a perspective one why my ex did what she did but it looks like this was translated into 'let me give you a piece of advice' in stead. I think that I had one or two replies that spoke to my question.

But I will tell you this: I filed that lawsuit last Friday and it does NOT make me feel empty... .I feel really wonderful. I will feel even better if she shows up. Even better than that if I get the ring back. I CAN control this situation and am doing that right now with this: she has something of mine, I want it back, she won't talk to me enough to give it back, she will have to answer in court and THEN give that thing back. If she does not give it back, the force of law will take over and compel her by seizure to return it. Do you see: empowerment does not come from within?

Again: the BEST thing that I have ever done in this situation hands down. IT worked very nicely for me... .I hope that others in the same situation might do this and benefit as well.
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HappyNihilist
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« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2015, 07:35:31 PM »

She has kept something that you would like back. You haven't been able to talk to her to ask for it back. You see taking this action as the most positive thing you've done since the breakup.

You feel like getting the ring back will help you find closure. Closure is good.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) I hope it works out well for you. You deserve to find peace after the turmoil.

I am wondering about this, though.

Do you believe that her boundaries are less valid than your need for control?

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blissful_camper
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« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2015, 10:28:33 PM »

JRT, you may find good reading in this article: www.wildmind.org/blogs/on-practice/idiot-compassion
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JRT
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« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2015, 01:12:46 AM »

She has kept something that you would like back. You haven't been able to talk to her to ask for it back. You see taking this action as the most positive thing you've done since the breakup. Not necessarily positive, but productive... .necessary... .fruitful. Yes, very much so.

You feel like getting the ring back will help you find closure. Closure is good.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) I hope it works out well for you. You deserve to find peace after the turmoil.

I am wondering about this, though.

Do you believe that her boundaries are less valid than your need for control?


I am entirely unconcerned about her boundaries at this point, I just want my stuff back. Should I be?
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« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2015, 01:15:32 AM »

JRT, you may find good reading in this article: www.wildmind.org/blogs/on-practice/idiot-compassion

Thanks BC... .are you arguing that I practice true compassion?
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Loosestrife
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« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2015, 03:49:58 AM »

Is the ring worth more than your sanity or your freedom? Does it really mean a lot to you? Just some thoughts... .

Getting the ring back will lead to insanity?

Yes... .DOUBLE yes, it IS worth that much to me and getting it back is worth even more.

I meant in the amount of time, energy emotion you are still using up pursuing this
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« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2015, 07:11:36 AM »

It is not that the question is unanswerable it is that the answer lies within the other person.

Or not.

What struck me about my ex as just prior to our breakup was that she didn't have a coherent answer to many of the things I asked her. I really believe she was trying to honestly answer my questions because we were still talking about trying to work things out. She just didn't know why she did what she did at certain times. She was often perplexed by her own behavior, especially when she looked back on it.

There was one time I insisted on an answer and she started to become unhinged - I could see it in her eyes - and I pulled back in one hell of a hurry. I finally realized that if I continually demanded answers to questions that she couldn't answer I might send her over the edge. Her fears drove her behavior - not her intellect - and it was too difficult for her to step outside the intense emotionality of her fears to examine her behavior. She couldn't analyze, she simple acted to minimize her pain. Unfortunately, her "neutralizing" strategies caused pain to me. This pain lessened as I fully accepted that she was disordered and I would never get the answers I needed from her. She was disordered and her behavior was chaotic and she didn't even understand it herself. How could she give me understanding and closure?

Have you considered that possibility that insisting on contact and interaction might make her more unbalanced than she already is?
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« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2015, 10:21:47 AM »

Is the ring worth more than your sanity or your freedom? Does it really mean a lot to you? Just some thoughts... .

Getting the ring back will lead to insanity?

Yes... .DOUBLE yes, it IS worth that much to me and getting it back is worth even more.

I meant in the amount of time, energy emotion you are still using up pursuing this

What time and energy? It took 10 minutes to file the suit... .the case itself might last 5 minutes. It was a great investment in time.
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« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2015, 10:30:31 AM »

It is not that the question is unanswerable it is that the answer lies within the other person.

Or not.

What struck me about my ex as just prior to our breakup was that she didn't have a coherent answer to many of the things I asked her. I really believe she was trying to honestly answer my questions because we were still talking about trying to work things out. She just didn't know why she did what she did at certain times. She was often perplexed by her own behavior, especially when she looked back on it.

There was one time I insisted on an answer and she started to become unhinged - I could see it in her eyes - and I pulled back in one hell of a hurry. I finally realized that if I continually demanded answers to questions that she couldn't answer I might send her over the edge. Her fears drove her behavior - not her intellect - and it was too difficult for her to step outside the intense emotionality of her fears to examine her behavior. She couldn't analyze, she simple acted to minimize her pain. Unfortunately, her "neutralizing" strategies caused pain to me. This pain lessened as I fully accepted that she was disordered and I would never get the answers I needed from her. She was disordered and her behavior was chaotic and she didn't even understand it herself. How could she give me understanding and closure?

Have you considered that possibility that insisting on contact and interaction might make her more unbalanced than she already is?

JK... .thanks a TON for your reply... .I had hunches along these lines and similar conversations after recycles... .Its good to know (in a way) that someone had a similar experience or thoughts in the same context. I am SO glad that you posted this as it acts as a confirmation of what I suspected.

Have you considered that possibility that insisting on contact and interaction might make her more unbalanced than she already is?

There was a point that I wish that I could have gotten back with her. She was not a classic 'raging' sort of borderline and we had a truly trouble free and pleasant relationship, my best ever. Beyond that, I hoped that we could have a conversation or maybe even be friends. I had been very patient over the course of the last year and respected her boundaries, hoping that time and distance might paint me white enough to have that happen. But it just didn't as this post indicates and with it any hope for civility. Its possible that someday in the future, maybe even years from now, that she might reach out. If she does, I will deal with it then, but the relationship possibility is gone and it will never come back and with it any concern for how my actions make her feel - I just don't care. I want my property back and that's about the extent of my epilogue. She can deal with her unbalance by herself.
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BlackHoleSun
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« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2015, 06:16:52 AM »

Hey JRT! Here are a few potential answers for you as to why someone with BPD would be scared of someone... .

Transference/Projection

Someone with BPD may know they are verbally/emotionally/physically abusive. They may know they are obsessive to the point of stalking people. They may know they are controlling etc. A person with BPD can take these "negative traits" and project or transfer them onto another person - their partner for example. In other words their partner becomes a verbally/emotionally/physically abusive, obsessive stalker - someone to be afraid of.

Feelings = Facts

Imagine someone does something nice for you. The person has been really helpful and friendly, you can see they are a good person (fact) and this makes you feel happy (feeling). For people with BPD however this can work the opposite way around. The person with BPD can feel unhappy, anxious, etc (feelings). There must be a reason for this. They then associate these feelings with something external, for example their partner. So, their partner makes them feel unhappy, anxious etc (facts).

Paranoid Ideation

Many people with BPD cannot tolerate stress. Under stress they can become paranoid. They can have severely irrational thoughts such as people are out to get them, harm them etc. This can be so bad that the person with BPD becomes delusional and suffers with hallucinations.

Their Partner has become Obsessed.

This happens a lot! The person with BPD simply confuses the ___ out of their partner. The partner genuinely becomes obsessed trying to "piece the puzzle" together, they can't accept the reality of the situation, they're still stuck in the "illusion",  believing the " fantasy" of idealisation or maybe hooked on the crazy sex and just can't let go. Essentially the "non" partner starts to act irattionally and begins to display BPD traits. This would be enough to scare anybody, let alone someone with BPD.

As others have said you can never really know the answers you're looking for. The best course of action is accepting the truth. Accepting that you never REALLY knew the person you were involved with or what motivates and drives their actions. YOU may have been happy in the relationship and thought everything was great but that really won't have been the case for your exgf if she suffers with BPD. Maybe take a look at you own actions and see how they could make your ex afraid of you (for example, not respecting her wishes for you to leave her alone). I 100% agree with the other people that have posted. To take back the power you must seek radical acceptance, go no contact, move on, delete her from your life for good, forget about her. If you don't do that SHE has all of the power over YOU. Hope that helps.
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JRT
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« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2015, 07:59:29 AM »

Hey JRT! Here are a few potential answers for you as to why someone with BPD would be scared of someone... .

Transference/Projection

Someone with BPD may know they are verbally/emotionally/physically abusive. They may know they are obsessive to the point of stalking people. They may know they are controlling etc. A person with BPD can take these "negative traits" and project or transfer them onto another person - their partner for example. In other words their partner becomes a verbally/emotionally/physically abusive, obsessive stalker - someone to be afraid of.

Some good ideas there... .thanks

Feelings = Facts

Imagine someone does something nice for you. The person has been really helpful and friendly, you can see they are a good person (fact) and this makes you feel happy (feeling). For people with BPD however this can work the opposite way around. The person with BPD can feel unhappy, anxious, etc (feelings). There must be a reason for this. They then associate these feelings with something external, for example their partner. So, their partner makes them feel unhappy, anxious etc (facts).

Paranoid Ideation

Many people with BPD cannot tolerate stress. Under stress they can become paranoid. They can have severely irrational thoughts such as people are out to get them, harm them etc. This can be so bad that the person with BPD becomes delusional and suffers with hallucinations.

Their Partner has become Obsessed.

This happens a lot! The person with BPD simply confuses the out of their partner. The partner genuinely becomes obsessed trying to "piece the puzzle" together, they can't accept the reality of the situation, they're still stuck in the "illusion",  believing the " fantasy" of idealisation or maybe hooked on the crazy sex and just can't let go. Essentially the "non" partner starts to act irattionally and begins to display BPD traits. This would be enough to scare anybody, let alone someone with BPD.

As others have said you can never really know the answers you're looking for. The best course of action is accepting the truth. Accepting that you never REALLY knew the person you were involved with or what motivates and drives their actions. YOU may have been happy in the relationship and thought everything was great but that really won't have been the case for your exgf if she suffers with BPD. Maybe take a look at you own actions and see how they could make your ex afraid of you (for example, not respecting her wishes for you to leave her alone). I 100% agree with the other people that have posted. To take back the power you must seek radical acceptance, go no contact, move on, delete her from your life for good, forget about her. If you don't do that SHE has all of the power over YOU. Hope that helps.

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JRT
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« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2015, 09:34:51 AM »

Hey JRT! Here are a few potential answers for you as to why someone with BPD would be scared of someone... .

Transference/Projection

Someone with BPD may know they are verbally/emotionally/physically abusive. They may know they are obsessive to the point of stalking people. They may know they are controlling etc. A person with BPD can take these "negative traits" and project or transfer them onto another person - their partner for example. In other words their partner becomes a verbally/emotionally/physically abusive, obsessive stalker - someone to be afraid of.

Feelings = Facts

Imagine someone does something nice for you. The person has been really helpful and friendly, you can see they are a good person (fact) and this makes you feel happy (feeling). For people with BPD however this can work the opposite way around. The person with BPD can feel unhappy, anxious, etc (feelings). There must be a reason for this. They then associate these feelings with something external, for example their partner. So, their partner makes them feel unhappy, anxious etc (facts).

Paranoid Ideation

Many people with BPD cannot tolerate stress. Under stress they can become paranoid. They can have severely irrational thoughts such as people are out to get them, harm them etc. This can be so bad that the person with BPD becomes delusional and suffers with hallucinations.

So why don't you just get help C? you just can't keep running. You're badly hurting people.
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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2015, 10:44:09 AM »

So why don't you just get help C? you just can't keep running. You're badly hurting people JRT.

The two things that kept me "stuck" the longest:

1. Taking my ex's maladaptive coping strategies personally. Destructive though they are, they help her cope when she's emotionally overwhelmed.

2. Expecting a normal emotional response from a person with an emotional disorder.

I needed time (now a year post b/u) and distance (n/c) to radically accept the disorder. To stop wondering if she didn't love me enough, if she didn't try hard enough. The cold hard truth is that she has mental health issues that lead to her chaotic behaviors. This has nothing to do with me or my worth as a partner.

You either.
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JRT
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« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2015, 10:55:56 AM »



1. Taking my ex's maladaptive coping strategies personally. Destructive though they are, they help her cope when she's emotionally overwhelmed.

I hear this here frequently: I don't understand this at all. Its like saying, "They shoot you in the head, but don't take it personally". I don't know how it can be taken as anything EXCEPT personally.
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Learning_curve74
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« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2015, 11:42:23 AM »

JRT, when it's mentioned to "not take it personally", the meaning is that the borderline's behavior is not a reflection of you but simply their own maladaptive coping strategies. It could have happened to somebody else, not you personally, and in fact, since these are repetitive ingrained behavior patterns, it's doubtful you were the first person, and probably not the last, to be treated in this manner by her.

"It's not you, it's me."  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

However, that is not to relieve ourselves from our half of the relationship. We play our part too. A common denominator I see among people here are that many put up with behaviors and incidents in these relationships that would've made others run. We also do not let go once it is over, even when that is often the most sensible and healthy choice. Obviously these are not unique to BPD relationships but probably common to most unhealthy relationships.
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2015, 11:49:30 AM »

My ex's relationships weren't really separate or unique.  They were more like one event where each partner was a surrogate plugged in to provide him an outlet for his replaying his wounds.  What's more, there was hardly any deviation from the 'script' at his end.    

You mentioned that your ex was engaged previously.  This wasn't her first rodeo.  It's possible her previous engagements ended in a similar way.  I think you mentioned that she had 3 engagements... . To me, that's a lot of engagements.  Something isn't quite right with that picture.  If you expand your view of her history to include her other relationships, do you see a pattern there?  

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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2015, 12:57:56 PM »

JRT, when it's mentioned to "not take it personally", the meaning is that the borderline's behavior is not a reflection of you but simply their own maladaptive coping strategies. It could have happened to somebody else, not you personally, and in fact, since these are repetitive ingrained behavior patterns, it's doubtful you were the first person, and probably not the last, to be treated in this manner by her.

My ex's relationships weren't really separate or unique.  They were more like one event where each partner was a surrogate plugged in to provide him an outlet for his replaying his wounds.  What's more, there was hardly any deviation from the 'script' at his end.

YES! ^^^

I didn't/couldn't accept that "I shouldn't take it personally" until I was more emotionally detached. It sounded ludicrous to me when I first heard it too.
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2015, 02:37:07 PM »

JRT, when it's mentioned to "not take it personally", the meaning is that the borderline's behavior is not a reflection of you but simply their own maladaptive coping strategies. It could have happened to somebody else, not you personally, and in fact, since these are repetitive ingrained behavior patterns, it's doubtful you were the first person, and probably not the last, to be treated in this manner by her.

My ex's relationships weren't really separate or unique.  They were more like one event where each partner was a surrogate plugged in to provide him an outlet for his replaying his wounds.  What's more, there was hardly any deviation from the 'script' at his end.

YES! ^^^

I didn't/couldn't accept that "I shouldn't take it personally" until I was more emotionally detached. It sounded ludicrous to me when I first heard it too.

My ex used to tell me that I "shouldn't take it personally."  Looking back, that was useful advice from him.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) 

I think, maybe on some level, choosing to be in a relationship with someone with a PD is a lifestyle choice.  I can't adapt to that way of life.  My ex, since he refuses therapy, requires a partner who can adapt.  And if he finds that person and is happy, bueno. 
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