Broken Engagement

[Leonis]

Hi folks! First time poster. I've been lurking around for some time after some recent events. Recently, my ex-fiancée broke off the engagement. We were supposed to be married near the end of this month on the 25th. My ex has never been diagnosed with BPD, but looking around the web and posting my misadventures with her on places such as Loveshack.org, some of the members there have pointed out that she seemed to have BPD traits. For the purpose of this thread, I will refer to her as Yin.

The background story can be traced to here. At the end of the thread from last summer, I claimed that I stopped seeing her. The truth is, I didn't. When she helped me move to my new place, we ended up being intimate and she came back to me the week after thanking me for not giving up on her. Of course, I didn't think to pressure her into therapy again. I took our relationship cautiously for the next two months until one day she mentioned how she wants to work towards marriage. This is the point where I lowered my guard and we continued our relationship.

Significant events that happened during Oct-Nov 2015 included a miscarriage (due to the fact she was still on Accutane, not supposed to be pregnant anyways) and a minor episode where she threw an emotional fit when she felt I wasn't treating her with all the love and kindness she deserves as a significant other. I didn't question her claim because I felt maybe I didn't do enough and probably bluntly said things that may have hurt her feelings.

In Jan of this year, we visited my parents. We figured that it was something that needed to be done, especially if we were considering on getting married. The visit went smoothly, but she did bring up how much my mother reminded of her own mother, and how she did not want to interact with my mother frequently in the future. This wasn't a huge problem for me since I had a strained relationship with my mother ever since I went back to live with her at the age of 10. Previously, I lived with my grandparents.

In Feb, we were officially engaged and we started to plan the wedding, place to live, etc. I made myself believe that maybe she wasn't emotionally unstable. Well, until mid-April anyways.

After we returned to my place after a social event Yin's coworker invited us to, she was in a bad mood. She said that I seemed angry and did not make small talks and socialize with people. I did, but the music, etc. were so loud it was near impossible to hear what other people were saying. I didn't even properly learn one of her coworker's name until we stepped outside of the room. It also didn't help when the said coworker texted her and asked if I was offended because I didn't seem like my usual cheery self. At first, she was lecturing me how I could improve on various little things. Then, she paused and told me that she didn't think we had anything in common. I asked her why she thought like that. After a moment, I saw Yin starting to cry and I tried to comfort her by holding her. She exclaimed ":)on't touch me!" I held her until she calmed down and she asked if she could leave for the night.

The next day, Yin texted a string of things that she felt I wasn't doing good enough in our relationship. This included how I wasn't spontaneous enough. How we never go to places. How I didn't have more fun hobbies. I addressed those issues and agreed that I should do more cutesy things for her to make her feel appreciated. And I did the same week by leaving love notes in her car while she was at work. She later texted me about how she appreciated the gesture.

We hung out for a bit that same week. It wasn't long because it was during our work week. We both work 7 on 7 off. After we got intimate, she immediately jumped out of bed and said that she had to go. When the work week ended, I visited her. She was avoiding me. She was hiding somewhere in her backyard. When we finally met face-to-face, she told me about how she didn't want to deal with the relationship anymore because she felt empty, unloved, etc. The same rhetoric about how she feels numb about life. Hates living and wishes she would just die at 28. All this while wearing her ring. Yin started telling me how the only reason why she dated me was because she felt bad for me and wanted to help me. Which is funny because I have not been the one actively pushing it to the next level this whole time. I told her that if she really wanted to help me, it's definitely not bailing out without telling me the issues she's struggling with. She reluctantly agreed to keep trying. We then made dinner together. This is also the meeting where she told me she's been talking to her roommate, who got her masters in counseling, told her that she's got some PTSD symptoms probably due to child abuse in her past and maybe the previous bf (who is married to someone else now) who was an army ranger who also had PTSD.

Unfortunately, during the next several days, she went radio-silent. I became concerned because I was busy at work and she didn't reply to any texts. I asked her younger sisters and roommates about her and they said Yin texted them back that she was doing okay. That is, until I messaged her older sister. We were talking about summer plans where the older sister asked me about mine. I told her that it would all depend on what Yin feels like doing because she's got some camping trip ideas, etc. she wants to do this summer. Her older sister then replied saying that she thought we had broken up already.

I became worried, so I told her I will have to visit Yin because I had no idea. To which, her sister disproved this notion and told me to leave her alone. I foolishly told her sister to stop denying that Yin's got some emotional issues that need help. When I did see Yin, she was surprised to see me. She told me that if I had come one day later, she would have been away on a trip in Southern Utah. I asked her about seeing couple's counseling with me. She agreed. She told me she's just been thinking about our relationship and how much patience I had through this entire ordeal. I didn't stay long because it was the last day of my 7 on. So, we agreed to meet up the next day and head out together the day after.

When I got there the next day, she wasn't at her place. I thought maybe she was at the clinic because she complained about pain in her right ovary since October of last year. I texted her, and she responded with a long paragraph about how she's finalized her decision to break things off after learning about the conversation I had with her sister. She started to point out, once again, that I was an angry person, that I was unloving and selfish, and that I was controlling and manipulative to inquire to her siblings and roommates about her. The best part? She thought intimacy was also one of my tools of control. She said that she didn't need counseling and her childhood taught her an important lesson about being in a potentially abusive situation. That she couldn't deal with the stress that comes with relationships.

Frenzied, I wrote an upset letter about how she can't keep denying her problems and sent it to her sisters. I left the letter there. All this while I tried to refute her claims about how awful of a person I was. Funnily enough, when I did call her later that evening, her tone wasn't upset. In fact, she felt bad because she claimed that she was the source of all the issue. I asked her to reconsider. She said that she will sleep on it. Skip forward next day, I wished her well on her trip. The response was hostile. She said that I didn't respect her decision and that I was harassing her. She even threatened restraining order. I retorted again, pointing out her denial, her inability to process normal human emotions. Yin eventually bid me goodbye and told me that she was unwilling to work things out with me.

However, there were still loose ends. I wasn't sure what she was going to do with the ring, each other's car keys, etc. At the end of my next 7 on. I came home to find that Yin had left $2000 (for the ring) and the keys on my table. I immediately drove over to her place and met her. The meeting was even tempered. I asked her if she'd reconsider, she said no. I ended up spending the whole day at her place. We discussed about what we were thinking during her runaway trip. Admitting that she was terrible at communication, Yin apologized and felt like she's better off staying single as a spinster cat lady. She also made a point about how she felt bad leaving me at a time when I was planning on retaking the MCAT this fall. She then made an interesting deal with me involving helping me study to keep me motivated until it's time to part in September; after I take the exam. All is fine and dandy until we somehow ended up engaging in intercourse that night. From the look of it, we both felt a bit uncomfortable. We weren't using condoms and it was day 14 on her cycle.

The next day. She spent time with me. I got a lot of studying done. We also bought groceries and made dinner together. Yin told me how that was one of her favorite things to do with me. I thought we had great conversations. We identified things that we should have communicated better. We talked about emotions and how some things (cutting off in traffic, locked outside of your car/house) tend to make people frustrated. Normal feelings meant they are how people respond. It doesn't mean they are right, but that's just how most people react. I asked her if she's sure about completely breaking things off when we have identified the issues. She answered no and would rather keep the agreement of staying until September. We ate dinner, studied some more, and took a nap.

While in the middle of the nap, she initiated cuddling as well as intercourse again. She told me that I may actually have finished inside her despite pulling out the day before. Once we finished, she started to cry. She said that she couldn't do this. That she hasn't had a orgasm for the past 3-4 months; she's only gotten close. I asked if she could get herself off, and she said that she doesn't know how and never felt comfortable doing it herself. I told her she couldn't blame that on me simply because there's not much I could do if she can't get off herself and can't do it when she's on top controlling all the motions. After some minor exchanges about the same points in regards to anger, stress caused by the relationship, etc., she drove off.

I wasn't sad anymore, but rather astonished. I no longer know if she actually have some mental issues or simply immature beyond comprehension. The reasons Yin described us being in a bad relationship felt like molehills turned into mountains. I texted her the next day saying that perhaps she should have looked into stress management. She said that we both probably needed it. Then, she asked me about my new gig with the infectious doc doing clinical research to bolster my resume. We haven't talked since.

I probably missed some of the details and this is getting long. I just want to know what people feel about it. Thanks... .it's been a tumultuous year and half spent with this woman.

Part of me still wants her back. Part of me also hopes that she did not got herself pregnant.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Circle]

Hello Leonis,

Welcome aboard bpdfamily!

I'm still learning lots of the lessons on here. Just want to welcome you and give you some amateur feedback. The experts will probably be along soon; there are some people on hear that have very solid feedback to give. Keep reading and posting; not only your own posts, but reading and commenting on others-you'll learn a lot that way.

Having read about 5X the number of posts that I've posted, it definitely sounds like she may have a personality disorder. Yet, like people say on BPDF, we can't diagnose. One of the things that you may want to ponder, is what about this lady attracted you? For me, it was the sex and the exciting and approachable personality. We are still friends; I really do love my dxBPDso (diagnosed BPD ex significant other). Perhaps you were desperate for some loving, and she was an option (it helps to be honest with yourself about this stuff). That was the case for me, for sure; plus we were old friends. I ask, because it seems to me like you put up with a lot of junk, that you normally would probably not tolerate with other people.

The first ridiculous thing I noticed was her telling you that you needed more fun hobbies. Give me a break, right? She continued passing off the buck onto you, for everything, over and over, from what I've read; it was always your fault. You didn't socialize with people properly at her party. You were accused of using intimacy as a form of control. I know, this stuff is ridiculous. And, everyone on these boards is familiar with this sort of manipulation. Ironically the best thing you can do is just listen. Try not to argue about things with her. That INVALIDATES her feelings. Even if you can't sincerely VALIDATE how she is feeling, you do NOT want to invalidate her, if you can help it.

One of the acronyms that people talk about a lot on these boards is called JADE.

J: Justify A: Argue D: Defend E: Explain

You don't want to do any of those things when you are accused of something.

Pay attention instead, Understand, Listen and Validate her.

Another popular acronym on here is FOG.

F: Fear O: Obligation G: Guilt

These are the effects they achieve when accusing and/or manipulating; if you get sucked into it. Don't let yourself get sucked into that sort of thing.

One way to deal with stuff like this is to set BOUNDARIES. What you will and will not accept; and stick with it. For example, you won't have a conversation with her, if she starts yelling at you. You can tell her that you won't and if she continues, leave the room, house, etc.

This is just some beginning staples of the stuff on bpdfamily. You'll hear a lot more about it, if you keep on here. Hang in there, keep your boundaries and don't invalidate her.

Take Care!

[Leonis]

Thanks for the feedback Circle!

She told that she'd found me attractive ever since we met during our internship starting in August of 2014. I didn't think too much of her until December that year. She said that she felt something was special about me and wanted to convince herself to give relationships a try again.

As for the techniques you mentioned, I don't know if it's necessary by this point as she seems to have broken off relationship possibilities with me.

[Circle]

Well, it's entirely possible that she will initiate contact again at some point. If that happens, do you want to start things up with her again?

[Leonis]

I do. I just hope I can keep things under control if she does come back.

I'm tempted to convince her to go to therapy, but... .Yeah it's all unknown right now.

[Circle]

The most I can say, is to repeat how helpful it is to keep reading and posting, not only on your own boards but others too. You may be co-dependent, which sets many of us up for this sort of relationship. You could read more about that. If you keep reading about other's situations, I think you'll get a better sense of your own, also. Best of luck to you Leonis!

[Leonis]

I'll do just that. I hope others will put in their opinions as well.

[Lucky Jim]

I just hope I can keep things under control if she does come back.  I'm tempted to convince her to go to therapy,

Hey Leonis, It sounds like you are interested in giving this r/s another chance, right?  If so, what makes you think it will go differently next time?  It seems like you are getting something out of this r/s.  If so, what is it?  If not, why were you in it for so long?  These are tough questions, I know, but might help you to figure out the right path.

LuckyJim

[Leonis]

If so, what makes you think it will go differently next time?

I'm hoping to either stir her towards getting some professional help or find ways to not trigger her emotional outbursts.

It seems like you are getting something out of this r/s.  If so, what is it?  If not, why were you in it for so long?  These are tough questions, I know, but might help you to figure out the right path.

I really enjoy her company and felt at ease talking about the thoughts in my head like with my best friends. We are similar in professional backgrounds and grown up from less than ideal households. It sounds cliché, like many other non's partners, the good times were really good. The bad times, to me, made no sense whatsoever.

[Lucky Jim]

Fair enough, Leonis.  My guess is that you will hear from her.  What makes you think that she has BPD?  LJ

[Leonis]

Fair enough, Leonis.  My guess is that you will hear from her.  What makes you think that she has BPD?  LJ

I don't think she actually has BPD. I posted my story to some relationship forums. Some members pointed out that she is displaying traits of BPD. I know that she personally told me that her roommate (a counselor) mentioned that she has some symptoms of PTSD, but I don't know enough about it.

Then, when I read about symptoms people with BPD traits experience, they seem to echo in a eerie fashion.

[Leonis]

Anyways, as it currently stands:

1. I know she hasn't blocked my phone number and email.

2. She deactivated her Facebook for the upcoming interview for school. I am de-friended, but not blocked.

3. She essentially "bought" the engagement ring off of me and still wears it because... .

4. She apparently haven't told her coworkers that the wedding is off as of May 13th.

5. Last communication with her was on May 13th when I mentioned my shadowing experience. To which she asked if I was going to do research for the same physician.

6. We had unprotected sex last Wednesday and Thursday. During day 14-15 of her cycle. We only used the pull out method.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Leonis, You had unprotected sex with someone who may have BPD?  You already know that's reckless, so why are you letting this happen?  Only you know for sure.  LJ

[Leonis]

Hey Leonis, You had unprotected sex with someone who may have BPD?  You already know that's reckless, so why are you letting this happen?  Only you know for sure.  LJ

Heat of the moment. I really have no excuses.

[Circle]

Yeah, you've got to be careful with that Leonis. If you'll notice, one whole section of these boards is for issues related to the law: custody, false allegations of anything, domestic abuse, etc. Reading any of these boards, you'll find out that people with personality disorders use situations, such as children, to control their partners. Many of the people who have had children w/BPD people, find themselves in hostile households, where they can only pray that their children will somehow rise above the circumstances. And, like I said, it's common to read about one partner not seeing their children due to the BPD's hostile behaviors. Be wary; for real.

[Leonis]

I'm not super worried. She had told me as recent as last week that if we had a kid, I probably would never find out until I have a surprise visitor 18-20 years down the line.

Because you know, her logic.

[Leonis]

So, I was reading around the board for some more personal enrichment, and I came across this:

Another Post-er brought this to my attention privately; it's a post from a very well-respected and prolific writer on these Boards named "2010".  It's from a few years ago (August of 2010) and appeared here in the ":)etaching" Boards:



Paranoia and Borderline personality disorder combine into Hermit Borderline. Hermit's are usually second generation (or more) because of Witch Mothers. Witch Mothers are abusive, erratic, dramatic and generally out of control. Because of this, her child becomes traumatized. As the child grows into an adult, there is no safety and security except in hiding, so the frequent bouts of post trauma stress have created a barrier at developing the self and getting on and out in the World. Eventually, the young adult turns into a Hermit and rarely feels comfort at mingling with the rest of Humanity. Instead, it's Paranoia he feels.



Hermits will want to feel walled-in and safe from predators (which he believes his Mother is.) According to Christine Lawson, "they retreat into the blackness that threatens to consume them." Hermits are terrified of not having control- and suicide is the ultimate form of control to them. They feel robbed and violated as children- and live in fear of domination as well as desertion.

"The Hermit is a perfectionist, a worrier, and like most Borderlines, an insomniac. Their anxieties can keep them awake at night" (Lawson pg.80) IMO, this is generally the basis for the incorrect diagnosis of Bi-polar.

Gerald Adler (1985) explains that borderlines constantly seek out others to provide a sense of self, to "keep separation anxiety in check and to avoid annihilation panic."  Hermits want to be left alone, not abandoned, just not bothered. Their inner experience is persecution. Hermits expect to lose what they need; consequently, they are possessive and controlling. They can also punish those they loved by shutting them out. When angry, they confront family members with a stony wall of silence. They are also intensely jealous and can accuse their spouses of infidelity despite having no evidence to support their beliefs. They may also be superstitious and overreact to pain and illness.

The worst trait of a Hermit is to evoke guilt and anxiety in others. This is used to control and project anxiety. Hermits will become their own worst enemies and the greatest threat to their *own* survival. They may grow weary of feeling constantly threatened and decide that dying, paradoxically, is their ultimate act of protection against the dangers of living.



What to do?

1) Reevaluate rather than react to the Hermit's fear. Anxiety is contagious while living with a fearful, paranoid Hermit. You must learn to rely on your own perception, intuition and judgment.

2) He can't give you something that he doesn't have- namely peace of mind.  A Hermit cannot provide you with emotional support. The Hermit will catastrophize insignificant events and make mountains out of molehills. Do not let him undermine your self confidence.

3) Panic prevents a Hermit from thinking clearly. This is a subset of PTSD and has nothing to do with you. Believe in yourself and your basic goodness.

4) Expect rejection to follow closeness. Warm interactions are often followed by paranoid accusations. Protect yourself by keeping the interactions brief and by ending conversations following positive interactions.

5) Calmly maintain your perspective.

6) Being alone is his choice, not yours.

7) Respond to paranoia with reason, not ridicule. Do not tease or exacerbate the fear.

8) Point out the consequences of irrational fear but do not minimize or ridicule. Point out the consequences of actualized fear instead.  Why are you anxious? What is the problem? How can I solve the problem? Answering these three simple questions can keep a Hermit calm.

9) Set limits to preserve your own sanity. Step 1: Confirm your separateness with "I" statements rather than "you"

Step 2: Create structure: "I will"

Step 3: Clarify consequences: "I won't"

You cannot sacrifice your life, your sanity and your health to protect a Hermit. Because the Hermit fears living, the only choice is to leave him alone."

The parts that stood out to me are in bold because that's very similar to my ex-fiancée's background. I wish I knew more during our time together... .Oh God... .I guess she may not have been joking when she said that she doesn't want to live past 28.