A Tactic that works for BPD and Everyone Else as well

[LivingWBPDWife]

I was thinking this week about the last 6 years with my BPD and how horrible it has been. However, as I drilled down, I remember "good" times. So, I started thinking why they were good? And a number of things came to mind, my BPD had another person to focus on (her dad), we spent a lot of money having fun, and went out all the time, she looked hot always, lots of compliments, fed her narcissism and validated her, and so forth.

However, in my professional life, I am a very successful entrepreneur, and author. And I mentor a lot of people on how to get more in their professional lives. There is no secret, its just hard work, finish what you start, and be honest with yourself. I have done seminars on this stuff, and its really not rocket science.

But, at the end of the day ALL OF US need to feel useful, beautiful, and important -- right? ESPECIALLY BPDs, since they have such a skewed view of themselves. With that in mind, BEFORE I knew my wife was BPD, I simply thought she was depressed. So, I took it on as a "project" and used my techniques I use on college students, grads, and people in the workforce, and I tried to find something that would enrich her soul -- I figured out she used to paint in her teens, but gave up. Typical BPD behavior, they quite the moment something gets hard or makes them feel bad... .

Nevertheless, since I hadn't been painted black yet, I was able to get her to try painting, she was 100% into it, we got canvas, paints, she painted up a storm, beautiful paintings, they are still all over the walls... Of course, sooner or later, something went wrong, and two things happened --

1. Another female friend of mine that is VERY talented and has been painting for years, invited us to a paint and music rave thingy -- basically, people dance, paint, DJ, crazy -- but cool. My BPD was painting, but my other friend was doing something just amazing. So, my BPD got her soul crushed her, or the crack was made in it. Like anyone, she was sad, she wanted to be as good, I comforted her, and told her, you are REALLY good, but this girl has been doing this YEARS, you will get that good in time, just take your time, and keep painting!

2. So, now doubt and invalidation (these things I know now) have infected her mind, so she painted a few more paintings, but each got progressively worse, as if she was doubting her decisions each stroke, until she couldn't finish the last painting, and STOPPED forever... .

Now, in retrospect, this was the happiest I have ever seen her. And BPD or not, if you do something each day that you have a passion for, its going to make you happy.

Thus, my suggestion is the following, we can validate until we are purple, but I am sick of it, and I really don't think it helps, I think it perpetuates the problem, other may agree or disagree. However, what if you didn't have to validate so much? Especially crazy stuff?

Give this a try -- CAREFULLY -- try and find something from your BPDs childhood or youth they love; painting, piano, reading, whatever, and try and get them into it again. Now, remember the THOUGHT of starting something, failing might be too much for them, so you might have to just have them come home with a new "fill in the blank" in the living room for them to play with. But, you get the idea. I truly believe that this won't cure a BPD, but it can keep them focused on a positive feedback loop for months and maybe years until it blows up.

I have ran out of things, I need to find something else for her, but if you haven't done this, you might be able to pull off a huge transformation and a reprieve for weeks, months, maybe even a year or 2.

Let me know if anyone has any luck with this tactic.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lifewriter16]

You're onto something here LivingWBPDWife. There's a mental health project in England that works on the same principles you're mentioning: help the person find what they love to do and support them in doing it.

I'm trying to build this into my own life.

Lifewriter

x

[sempervivum]

I totally agree with you. These tactics are very useful and can prolong the peace in the life with a BP. I found myself able to apply this from time to time, convincing my husband to do things he likes and neglected to do.

Only, this does not work every time, because of other circumstances. For example my h dug himself in his work like a hamster on a wheel and it gets difficult to make him forget the wheel.

The other problem is my psychological exhaustion: it is not easy to be the locomotive all the time. Besides, I am a teacher and I have to deal with similar problems at school sometimes, so there are days when I come home and feel I would like to have someone to lift me up.

It´s the same pattern with priests, therapists and mentors like you, who need their own priest, therapist or mentor. Sometimes it gets really tough.

[Notwendy]

I think that encouraging someone to pursue a passion is a good thing, but intent and purpose is something to consider. Encouraging someone to pursue a hobby because we care about them is different than thinking about this as a "tactic".

Although it is tempting to bring a skill that works well in a job, with sales and employees into the home, an intimate relationship is different. In relationships such as seller-buyer, boss-employee, teacher- student, the relationship is not one of equals, nor is it intimate. If the goal is intimacy and a better relationship, then the use of "tactics" is not likely to lead to that.

People respond differently if they sense that they are being controlled or acted on in some manner and this includes people with BPD.

I agree that everyone responds to positive encouragement, but how it is done can make a difference.

[LivingWBPDWife]

@notwendy,

Whatever word we use to describe this tactic, technique, method, etc. at the end of the day, we are all trying to find some method, algorithm eg. "SET" to manipulate how an exchange goes down right? So, use whatever word you want, but all I am saying is a BPD with nothing to do is a BPD that is going over the past, present and future creating scenarios to invalidate themselves, so if we can give them or lead them to something that is not only a distraction from that negative behavior, but at the same time is a positive, productive, hobby or skill then that's win win for everyone.

[LivingWBPDWife]

@sempervivum,

Yup, its very tiring being a cheerleader all the time, and BPDs tend to start things, then do them, get validation and the moment they fail or suck, then they crash. But, thinking about it, I would rather be the cheerleader than the target of hatred and anger all the time

Anyway,my wife found a new "love" and multi level marketing biz which is probably the worst thing on the planet for her -- sooner or later she will get completely used, setup, whatever, and all the promises they make will come crashing down. In this case, I am trying to get her to stop, but she won't listen, I am the "bad" guy, so this is an example of a BAD hobby -- she did one before, it was a nightmare at the end -- WOW... .

In any event, I really think that keeping the BPD busy with positive re-enforcement EASY tasks can help them get out of the mind space where everything is bad, and maybe they can be more tolerable to use nons during the day.

[HappyNihilist]

In any event, I really think that keeping the BPD busy with positive re-enforcement EASY tasks can help them get out of the mind space where everything is bad, and maybe they can be more tolerable to use nons during the day.

Positive encouragement is great. Supporting and encouraging someone in doing things that interest them and make them happy is great. Supporting someone's efforts to get out of a negative mind space is great. 

Here's what I have a little bit of trouble with. And this is just me personally - I'm in no way saying your wife or anyone else is the same. But, I have bipolar disorder. Before therapy and treatment, I would get into bad spirals when my mind wasn't occupied. I distracted myself by doing things like logic puzzles, certain hobbies (when I had the creative energy for them), and a whole lot of work. These 'distractions' helped me greatly, as I'm sure similar 'distractions' help your wife.

But, if I felt like someone - especially my spouse - was giving me tasks to keep me busy and make me more tolerable... .I wouldn't like it. Employees don't like 'busy work.' Spouses are no different, BPD or not.

pwBPD are usually very perceptive, sensitive, and hyper-vigilant. They also often assume the worst possible intent, even if the other person has nothing but good intentions. The times when I would, intentionally or not, treat my exBPDbf as 'some kind of case' (his words), he always knew, and he always let me know that it didn't feel pleasant. And I would be humbled and embarrassed, because I know it doesn't feel pleasant.

I agree with Notwendy that 'how it is done can make a difference.'

It must be hard to watch your wife continually give up on things, make bad choices, etc. It's not easy to watch a loved one make the same type of mistakes over and over.

Encouraging that loved one to pursue positive, productive hobbies and find something that they love to do is a very good thing. I just think we should all be mindful of how we approach it.

[Chasingmiracles]

Duh! I have got to get him back to the gym.

[waverider]

Tried this and found it failed. The reason is because if they were good at something, they have since convinced themselves they were brilliant and outstanding. So they set their own benchmark too high. When they try to match this a second time around they fail to match their own image of brilliance. Near enough is not good enough and they feel like they are exposing themselves

.

Lack of consistency as a borderline trait dictates they will move from one interest to another. It takes a sense of self to commit long term to something, regardless of immediate results.

Being interested in something is important though to gain focus and purpose, so keep encouraging to try new things

If "validating" seems fake and patronizing too much, instead concentrate on not invalidating.

[Herodias]

Sorry to say I supported mine in every hobby he did- cost a fortune and he was still never happy- everything fades with him. Glad it helps with some... .

[Notwendy]

I think there is a misconception on the use of the relationship tools suggested on this board. However one wants to call them, tools, tactics, SET, or otherwise, these concepts are aimed at us, not someone else.

Being in a relationship with someone with BPD is a challenge, there is no denying that, however, it is generally known that efforts that are intended at changing, managing, controlling, someone else for the purpose of making our own lives more tolerable may work in the short run but are not likely to be as effective as making efforts at our own emotional growth.

The person with BPD can present us with a challenge and we can look at that challenge, whatever it is, but as long as the focus is on that person and what they need to do to change, and how we can effect the change in them, we may be missing some valuable insight into effective change within ourselves- something that might work better.

One of the challenges many of us face one way or the other is to use short term solutions- appeasement, giving in, managing their feelings, with the intent of finding some peace. However, often that peace is short lived until the next event. Examining our role in these episodes might lead to changing how we act- it may result in an early extinction burst, which is difficult to deal with, but in time, may result in something better for us- and the relationship in general.

[waverider]

BPD is often mistaken for OCD and OCPD especially at an early age due to intense obsessive pursuits of interests to the point of dysfunction.

The major difference that starts to show is inconsistency. pwOCD and pwOCPDS do not deviate from whatever the "issue" is. pwOCD often know it is not realistic but can't get it off their mind, pwOCPD believe it is right and appropriate with a sense of self-righteousness. pwBPD on the other hand will loose interest as there is no core sense of self for anything to permanently bond to. The interest will fail to satisfy, or live up to, hopes and dreams. So they drop it in search of a new "magic pill" to fix this hole in their life.

As Notwendy says if you try to hold them to an interest it will be seem as controlling and they will reject it, and you will become frustrated as they seem to trashing obvious solutions to the problems. Repeat this over and over and you will build up a permanent level of frustration between you. This leads to resentment.

[sempervivum]

Different people, different ideas. I see nothing wrong in encouraging your partner to do something he/she likes, that will make them happy. People do that in normal marriages, too.

I would like my husband to do that with me in my moment of crisis, to remind me of something nice I used to do. Unfortunately he has never done this, he is too much oriented to himself and his control issues.

Reminding of a favourite hobby or passion is  a sign of love. Of course, not in form of manipulation.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, BPDh bounces from one hobby to another I think, based upon all the "past hobbies" he talks about. His current one was taking up riding a motorcycle, but this hasn't given him the measure of happiness he was thinking it would either. Of course. It just seems like he's always looking for some thing or person to make him happy, and of course things don't make you happy long term, and you can't look to someone else for your happiness.

And he seems to drop hobbies like a hot potato.

[an0ught]

Hi LivingWBPDWife,

But, at the end of the day ALL OF US need to feel useful, beautiful, and important -- right? ESPECIALLY BPDs, since they have such a skewed view of themselves. With that in mind, BEFORE I knew my wife was BPD, I simply thought she was depressed. So, I took it on as a "project" and used my techniques I use on college students, grads, and people in the workforce, and I tried to find something that would enrich her soul -- I figured out she used to paint in her teens, but gave up. Typical BPD behavior, they quite the moment something gets hard or makes them feel bad... .

Nevertheless, since I hadn't been painted black yet, I was able to get her to try painting, she was 100% into it, we got canvas, paints, she painted up a storm, beautiful paintings, they are still all over the walls... Of course, sooner or later, something went wrong, and two things happened --

1. Another female friend of mine that is VERY talented and has been painting for years, invited us to a paint and music rave thingy -- basically, people dance, paint, DJ, crazy -- but cool. My BPD was painting, but my other friend was doing something just amazing. So, my BPD got her soul crushed her, or the crack was made in it. Like anyone, she was sad, she wanted to be as good, I comforted her, and told her, you are REALLY good, but this girl has been doing this YEARS, you will get that good in time, just take your time, and keep painting!

2. So, now doubt and invalidation (these things I know now) have infected her mind, so she painted a few more paintings, but each got progressively worse, as if she was doubting her decisions each stroke, until she couldn't finish the last painting, and STOPPED forever... .

Now, in retrospect, this was the happiest I have ever seen her. And BPD or not, if you do something each day that you have a passion for, its going to make you happy.

Good point Art can be quite liberating, self validating and is a healthy coping skill. It is sad that the self-defeating BPD dynamic again came into play. Now she seems to be blocked by an avalanche of self doubt. This is quite common for artists - can happen to even the ones without BPD. There is an excellent book "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron that while it is a lot about recovering as an artist, validates a lot the struggles dealing with fear, shame, rejection and doubt also encourages balance, introspection and self care.

Yup, its very tiring being a cheerleader all the time, and BPDs tend to start things, then do them, get validation and the moment they fail or suck, then they crash. But, thinking about it, I would rather be the cheerleader than the target of hatred and anger all the time

Generally cheer-leading a depressed person is invalidating and is making matters worse.

Anyway,my wife found a new "love" and multi level marketing biz which is probably the worst thing on the planet for her -- sooner or later she will get completely used, setup, whatever, and all the promises they make will come crashing down. In this case, I am trying to get her to stop, but she won't listen, I am the "bad" guy, so this is an example of a BAD hobby -- she did one before, it was a nightmare at the end -- WOW... .

She is excited about it. You argue against it. That is invalidating and is driving up her emotional level which makes her unable to hear the bits of truth that may actually have an impact on her. For more how this dynamic works check out the workshops on SET.

In any event, I really think that keeping the BPD busy with positive re-enforcement EASY tasks can help them get out of the mind space where everything is bad, and maybe they can be more tolerable to use nons during the day.

You are taking ownership to fix her. That is impossible and is draining your resources weakening the self you need to cope with the storms. Only she can fix herself.