Have you ever stopped caring?

[unicorn2014]

Have any of you got to the point where you just don't care anymore? Where you read about validation and you're just not interested? I don't know about you but I find it pretty hard to validate someone who has verbally abused me or accused me of devaluing them when I've tried to set boundaries. That kind of behavior on the part of the BPD makes me want to stop trying. Can any of you relate? What is the point of staying in a relationship like that?

[waverider]

I take my carers hat off from time to time.

It reminds me that it is a choice not an obligation.

It is also a reminder to them also.

That way when i put that hat back on its doesn't feel as heavy.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Unicorn2014,

I think there's an important distinction to be drawn here between caring ABOUT a person and wanting them to have the best possible life and caring FOR them in the literal sense of being in their life and doing things to try and make their life easier.

I have never stopped caring about my BPDxbf but I decided I didn't want to continue to care for him because I don't want to be in a relationship where I am subjected to critism, projection, abuse and threats that he will end the relationship if he doesn't get his way. I saw no point in staying, just as you are wondering whether there is any point in you continuing with your SO. I hear your frustration. However, are you really saying that you don't give a s**t anymore? Are you perhaps saying that you aren't prepared to tolerate the intolerable anymore? If you are, that's emotional health not lack of care.

Love Lifewriter

x

[Ceruleanblue]

I love this question because I too got to this place just this past week. I'm questioning if I want to stay in this, or if I even love this person anymore. I think constantly trying to validate and getting verbal and emotional abuse back has just taken it's toll on me, and how I feel about his marriage, and about BPDh.

I'd never hit the place of just not wanting to even TRY anymore, because I tend to always think "if I can enact change in ME, it might change his reaction". I've had minimal success with this, very minimal. I think lots of people here use the tools, and do get great results, but for me, it's been mixed results, and nothing stays "good" for any duration of time. I don't change, but BPDh does. He adapts to things, and I'm not talking of it being in a good way. It's like he'll find out one thing doesn't work anymore, so he starts doing something else.

I'm tired of being projected on, blamed, my words and deeds twisted into something nefarious, and just the general negativity directed at me. I can't keep pouring energy into this black hole.

I've been doing self care along the way, and I have a couple people who've supported me, but even still, sometimes it just gets old. I didn't marry to be alone, or be someone's scapegoat.

He knows I'm questioning leaving, for the first time ever, and boy has he apologized, and had an attitude change. I know this too will likely be short lived. He refuses to split the blame, or take an actual look at his contribution, really. He just says what he thinks will get him what he wants at the time, and I know that. He's incapable so far(see, ever hopeful), of really using or learning his DBT skills, and it's just so natural for him to always blame me(or his old boss, or whoever was his target at the time).

Self care is great, but do I want to have to overcompensate the rest of my life in this way? If things improve somewhat, maybe. If not, I'm thinking NO, I do not want to live the rest of my life this way.

[Daniell85]

I haven't stopped caring, but I can't be with him since he won't stop crossing boundaries and endlessly lying to me. It's been really destructive to me. Half the relationship has been a gaslight, and it has been literally sending me off the deep end.

I don't even know what to do in terms of interacting with him, because nothing I can do can make him stop, so right now, I am not. The best I see happening is I stop reacting ( inside of me and to him) with the panic and upset, and we can have a relationship of sorts, but because of all of the lying, I feel very doubtful sometimes.

[MaroonLiquid]

He adapts to things, and I'm not talking of it being in a good way. It's like he'll find out one thing doesn't work anymore, so he starts doing something else.

I know what you mean here.  I feel that is what my wife is currently doing at times.  She realizes something doesn't work anymore, then tries another tactic, then realizes that doesn't work, and tries something else.  It feels like it can be all to find out what triggers me.  What bother her is that nothing is... .

[Sadly]

Hi Unicorn

I noted this line below from CB and totally relate to it.

I'm tired of being projected on, blamed, my words and deeds twisted into something nefarious, and just the general negativity directed at me. I can't keep pouring energy into this black hole.

I dont quite know how it happened but I am in a totally different place now. I certainly didnt stop caring about my SO, I think I will care about him for as long as I live. However I cannot and will not debase myself any longer to pander to his illness. You can only suffer the sling shots and arrows to hit you and pierce you for so long before something breaks completely. I lost my self and now I am found again and I cannot tell you what a relief it is. I do love him, I will always love him but I am going to live MY life now, for me. Apparently people say if you get a dog it is like having a two year old child for the next 10/15 years, Yuk, I know now why I prefer cats:) Well I guess having a BPD partner is similar, a huge responsibility. Have you heard of the saying "a dog is for life and not just for christmas? Ditto, unless you choose otherwise. My guy is now panicking, he suddenly realised when I showed him my new job offer hundreds of miles away that I am actually going. Up until then he just ignored me and showed no interest when I discussed it. His hurt is visible and painful for me to see but it is all about him still. What will I do without you. I dont like this, how will I manage, I cant bear the thought of us not sharing our lives. etc etc. I know he loves me in his own way but these words come from a man who last night called me a liar because I forgot something trivial, my sofa was uncomfortable, the food wasnt how he would have cooked it and so on, endless put downs. Weird, I look at him, feel for him and know 100% enough is enough. I hope you make the right choice sweetheart, don't care and don't care can certainly be defined in more than one way.

[CrazyChuck]

This is so true. I can't seem to get off my white horse. I had to rescue her in the beginning. And now I am spending all my health, time, and money trying to make her happy. I have told myself so many times that I'm going to stop caring. I feel like I'm stuck. I do not want to be here, but I do not want to lose her either. 

[unicorn2014]

Hi Unicorn2014,

I think there's an important distinction to be drawn here between caring ABOUT a person and wanting them to have the best possible life and caring FOR them in the literal sense of being in their life and doing things to try and make their life easier.

I have never stopped caring about my BPDxbf but I decided I didn't want to continue to care for him because I don't want to be in a relationship where I am subjected to critism, projection, abuse and threats that he will end the relationship if he doesn't get his way. I saw no point in staying, just as you are wondering whether there is any point in you continuing with your SO. I hear your frustration. However, are you really saying that you don't give a s**t anymore? Are you perhaps saying that you aren't prepared to tolerate the intolerable anymore? If you are, that's emotional health not lack of care.

Love Lifewriter

x

You are right, I am saying that after the last round of verbal abuse I am not willing to tolerate the intolerable anymore. I made that clear to him. It's hard to continue on in a relationship when you've been treated so badly.

[unicorn2014]

I love this question because I too got to this place just this past week. I'm questioning if I want to stay in this, or if I even love this person anymore. I think constantly trying to validate and getting verbal and emotional abuse back has just taken it's toll on me, and how I feel about his marriage, and about BPDh.

I'd never hit the place of just not wanting to even TRY anymore, because I tend to always think "if I can enact change in ME, it might change his reaction". I've had minimal success with this, very minimal. I think lots of people here use the tools, and do get great results, but for me, it's been mixed results, and nothing stays "good" for any duration of time. I don't change, but BPDh does. He adapts to things, and I'm not talking of it being in a good way. It's like he'll find out one thing doesn't work anymore, so he starts doing something else.

I'm tired of being projected on, blamed, my words and deeds twisted into something nefarious, and just the general negativity directed at me. I can't keep pouring energy into this black hole.

I've been doing self care along the way, and I have a couple people who've supported me, but even still, sometimes it just gets old. I didn't marry to be alone, or be someone's scapegoat.

He knows I'm questioning leaving, for the first time ever, and boy has he apologized, and had an attitude change. I know this too will likely be short lived. He refuses to split the blame, or take an actual look at his contribution, really. He just says what he thinks will get him what he wants at the time, and I know that. He's incapable so far(see, ever hopeful), of really using or learning his DBT skills, and it's just so natural for him to always blame me(or his old boss, or whoever was his target at the time).

Self care is great, but do I want to have to overcompensate the rest of my life in this way? If things improve somewhat, maybe. If not, I'm thinking NO, I do not want to live the rest of my life this way.

Your situation definitely sounds worse then mine. I know my SO would respond well if I were to validate him but I just don't want to anymore. Not only that he acts like he doesn't need validation. On top of it I've gotten dumped by friends who felt they were enabling me in my relationship with him, which leads to question the difference between validation and enabling. It's kind of hard to validate someone who's just told you "f you you stupid "

[unicorn2014]

I haven't stopped caring, but I can't be with him since he won't stop crossing boundaries and endlessly lying to me. It's been really destructive to me. Half the relationship has been a gaslight, and it has been literally sending me off the deep end.

I don't even know what to do in terms of interacting with him, because nothing I can do can make him stop, so right now, I am not. The best I see happening is I stop reacting ( inside of me and to him) with the panic and upset, and we can have a relationship of sorts, but because of all of the lying, I feel very doubtful sometimes.

Yes that's where I'm at too, I told him I would not be reacting to him anymore. I think my SO enjoys getting a reaction out of me so I've really committed to not reacting to him anymore. It's hard. I realized I had to be willing to lose the relationship to stand my ground. That's the difference between he and I. If I can not react then I can show myself that my self respect is far more important then any relationship with a man.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, maybe validation hasn't been a huge game changer for us because like with your partner, he doesn't seem to need validation, even as much as I do as a non! I'd love, love, love for him to be able to hear me, or empathize, but he either can't or won't.

I still try to validate, but it's almost like he feels I'm passing judgement on him, even when I'm just staying "I can see how you'd feel that way, I'd feel the same". It's like he doesn't WANT my empathy, or validation. He just acts like he's so far above me.

And I can totally relate to being dumped by friends. That hasn't happened to us, but he's told lies to so many people about me(his family included), that I just don't feel comfortable going around them anymore. THEY don't get to see all the acting out HE does like I do, so to them, his lies seem plausible. It's all part of him playing victim.

[CrazyChuck]

"I can see how you'd feel that way, I'd feel the same"

This escalates my wife so quick. She hates if I say "I'd feel the same way". I can say "I can see how you'd feel that way". But also, if I say "I feel the same way". That is a WMD trigger. The words "no big deal" will make her head explode instantly. If I say "I'm sorry you feel that way" no good. I have to say "I'm sorry I made you feel that way". I have found the choosing of wording is very critical. I often stop and really think about how to say anything to her. I bet people think I'm slow, if they overhear our conversations.

[lovers knot]

This is a very good topic, because, as with others here whom have posted with a similar feeling, I have also been somewhat feeling a kind of non-caring attitude in the last couple of days. I've been given the ST and essentially being completely ignored since the 11th of August, and with the entire spectrum of it at the forefront, I still do have a deep love and truly care about my dear fwBPD, but the more the silence goes on, the more that I'm ignored like an outcast or vagabond in her barren landscape, the more I realize that perhaps the silence, ITSELF, is "the answer." The more the days goes by, the weeks, the more I find myself wondering if I should even expel energy towards wondering, pondering, considering certain things, and just completely let Time itself heal the broken hourglass that has seeped out endless amounts of sand at my feet. I pick up that sand, look at as it seeps through my fingers and back onto the ground, and realize that, even though I know that this is a characteristic of a BPD's disorder, and is their defense mechanism, et al., I still do not appreciate it, I still find it to be mean, I still find it to be unnecessary and verbally abusive and non-friend-like, and contradictory to "I miss you" and "I want to catch up with everything I've missed" and so on and so-forth.

It gets to a point where, yes, it gets old. The pain is still there at times, because how could it not be when you truly care and love someone? But, at this point, I am beginning to think that all of this may very-well be relatively permanent, and even if it isn't permanent, I feel as though I've become completely lackluster and non-existent to her to the degree that if we were to talk again, it may or may not seem completely foreign and strange, in that I wonder if it'd be the same. I want it to be the same, for I still consider her my dearest friend, but one cannot control another person's behavior, and I'm at a cross-roads, a total 'end game' kind of feeling where, yes, I feel more and more like not really caring whether or not she breaks the silence and reaches out, if ever. Obviously I DO care about her, I do love her, and I do want the best for her and for her to be happy, always, but this is a two-sided street; when you've been left without a PEEP, without ZERO form of communication for a month, it's only natural that one begins to suddenly slip into this kind of feeling of not wanting to give so much energy to even thinking about it anymore. Obviously not thinking about it isn't easy, since we're often "flooded with memories," but instead of INTENTIONAL expelling of energy with thoughts, the thoughts become far more 'distant' and essentially unintentional, if that makes sense.

The care and love still exists, yes, but for me, I do hold hope that she breaks silence, but I'm at a point where I feel like if she doesn't, then there's nothing that I can do about that, so I've already kind of headed towards another direction, and re-focused and shifted my energies. It's not easy, and we all have good days and bad days, but ultimately we can only control OUR behavior and be prepared for anything, and I am indeed prepared if she's to come around again (thanks to this website, and all of the tools and lessons I've learned).

Blessings to all!

[waverider]

This is a very good topic, because, as with others here whom have posted with a similar feeling, I have also been somewhat feeling a kind of non-caring attitude in the last couple of days. I've been given the ST and essentially being completely ignored since the 11th of August, and with the entire spectrum of it at the forefront, I still do have a deep love and truly care about my dear fwBPD, but the more the silence goes on, the more that I'm ignored like an outcast or vagabond in her barren landscape, the more I realize that perhaps the silence, ITSELF, is "the answer." The more the days goes by, the weeks, the more I find myself wondering if I should even expel energy towards wondering, pondering, considering certain things, and just completely let Time itself heal the broken hourglass that has seeped out endless amounts of sand at my feet. I pick up that sand, look at as it seeps through my fingers and back onto the ground, and realize that, even though I know that this is a characteristic of a BPD's disorder, and is their defense mechanism, et al., I still do not appreciate it, I still find it to be mean, I still find it to be unnecessary and verbally abusive and non-friend-like, and contradictory to "I miss you" and "I want to catch up with everything I've missed" and so on and so-forth.

It gets to a point where, yes, it gets old. The pain is still there at times, because how could it not be when you truly care and love someone? But, at this point, I am beginning to think that all of this may very-well be relatively permanent, and even if it isn't permanent, I feel as though I've become completely lackluster and non-existent to her to the degree that if we were to talk again, it may or may not seem completely foreign and strange, in that I wonder if it'd be the same. I want it to be the same, for I still consider her my dearest friend, but one cannot control another person's behavior, and I'm at a cross-roads, a total 'end game' kind of feeling where, yes, I feel more and more like not really caring whether or not she breaks the silence and reaches out, if ever. Obviously I DO care about her, I do love her, and I do want the best for her and for her to be happy, always, but this is a two-sided street; when you've been left without a PEEP, without ZERO form of communication for a month, it's only natural that one begins to suddenly slip into this kind of feeling of not wanting to give so much energy to even thinking about it anymore. Obviously not thinking about it isn't easy, since we're often "flooded with memories," but instead of INTENTIONAL expelling of energy with thoughts, the thoughts become far more 'distant' and essentially unintentional, if that makes sense.

The care and love still exists, yes, but for me, I do hold hope that she breaks silence, but I'm at a point where I feel like if she doesn't, then there's nothing that I can do about that, so I've already kind of headed towards another direction, and re-focused and shifted my energies. It's not easy, and we all have good days and bad days, but ultimately we can only control OUR behavior and be prepared for anything, and I am indeed prepared if she's to come around again (thanks to this website, and all of the tools and lessons I've learned).

Blessings to all!

The real issue is not when, and if, this phase will pass, it is that it is most likely to repeat itself. It is the endless recycling of destructive behaviors that grind you down and your tolerance for it finally snaps. Hence gritting your teeth and enduring it is ultimately bound to fail.

Its like constantly trudging over the peaks in attempt to traverse a mountain range. If you can't find the scenic route through the valleys it will eventually exhaust you. There is more to life than trying climb mountainous issues.

[lovers knot]

The real issue is not when, and if, this phase will pass, it is that it is most likely to repeat itself. It is the endless recycling of destructive behaviors that grind you down and your tolerance for it finally snaps. Hence gritting your teeth and enduring it is ultimately bound to fail.

Its like constantly trudging over the peaks in attempt to traverse a mountain range. If you can't find the scenic route through the valleys it will eventually exhaust you. There is more to life than trying climb mountainous issues.

Absolutely! The repetitious behavior is expected, but I've learned many lessons since then. I've been working on myself, and that entire spectrum, while also learning communication techniques for "next time" (if it comes to that). I'm still willing to re-connect, but I realize now that staying centered and not getting too emotional is the way to go.

Either way, no one appreciates the abuse, and silence is indeed a form of abuse, and I'd even surmise it being the worse form of abuse there is. At least "lashing out" or the physical sides of things provides the Non with a sense of communicative responses in the sense of the BPD acknowledging the Non's existence, versus the other side of the token. I believe the ST is a total punishment for the Non. The ST is a true dehumanizing of the other person, and it's traumatizing for the Non to endure, especially INITIALLY, and especially if they aren't too familiar with the characteristics of BPD, etc. Learning more, studying, and educating oneself on the disorder relieves a lot of the pain, at least to a degree; it certainly gives one a broader outlook, and also helps to feel compassionate and even more loving, etc.

If she re-ignites the connection, I'm more-than-willing to participate and engage, but I have a far heavier understanding of what may or may not happen, how to communicate based on the lessons I've learned, and what it might also mean with another bout of possible silence; I've learned to accept it, all-the-while feeling a deeper compassion for her, because I realize it is not ME, it is HER disorder and problems, which actually makes me even MORE compassionate, regardless of being abused like this.

[babyducks]

I'm still willing to re-connect, but I realize now that staying centered and not getting too emotional is the way to go.

Staying centered and knowing my own limitations is important to me.   When I get tired out, whether its emotionally or physically I need to take a break.   Find a way to recharge my own batteries.

That's not easy to do.   I had to work at establishing time in my relationship that was mine alone, that could be peaceful and allow me to relax.   

[unicorn2014]

Yes, maybe validation hasn't been a huge game changer for us because like with your partner, he doesn't seem to need validation, even as much as I do as a non! I'd love, love, love for him to be able to hear me, or empathize, but he either can't or won't.

I still try to validate, but it's almost like he feels I'm passing judgement on him, even when I'm just staying "I can see how you'd feel that way, I'd feel the same". It's like he doesn't WANT my empathy, or validation. He just acts like he's so far above me.

And I can totally relate to being dumped by friends. That hasn't happened to us, but he's told lies to so many people about me(his family included), that I just don't feel comfortable going around them anymore. THEY don't get to see all the acting out HE does like I do, so to them, his lies seem plausible. It's all part of him playing victim.

I don't need or want validation either however I was more saying that my partner tells me he doesn't need validation  so I find that the validation technique to be frustrating. Like I said previously I don't know where to draw the line between validating and enabling. My partner doesn't tell lies to my friends because we are in a long distance relationship and I wouldn't stand for that anyway. My partner doesn't act like he's above me, I just get sick of validating him when he's been so abusive to me. I think I really need to know the difference between validating and enabling.

[maxsterling]

Do I stop caring about her?  No.  Of course, she thinks I have stopped caring when I enforce a boundary, but the reality is my care for her well being doesn't change.  

But I do go through periods where I stop caring so much about the relationship.  As mentioned already, this generally means I quit putting effort into validating or the other tools.  I don't think I ever get to the point of being deliberately mean or vengeful, though.  Normally when things are bad, my tendency is to want to just ignore it and wander off and do something for myself.

[unicorn2014]

I'm still willing to re-connect, but I realize now that staying centered and not getting too emotional is the way to go.

Staying centered and knowing my own limitations is important to me.   When I get tired out, whether its emotionally or physically I need to take a break.   Find a way to recharge my own batteries.

That's not easy to do.   I had to work at establishing time in my relationship that was mine alone, that could be peaceful and allow me to relax.  

How were you able to do that? That's been one of my problems, not being able to take time for myself. My BPD always wants to be connected, all the time, and it wears me out!

[waverider]

How were you able to do that? That's been one of my problems, not being able to take time for myself. My BPD always wants to be connected, all the time, and it wears me out!

Your partner wants are being allowed to override your needs. Start by learning the difference between your needs and your wants. That way itr is easier to concentrate on establishing your needs a s your right.

Its not easy and you will be faced with severe extinction bursts as your partner tries to restablish the status quo. The status quo is what you are trying to change.

[unicorn2014]

How were you able to do that? That's been one of my problems, not being able to take time for myself. My BPD always wants to be connected, all the time, and it wears me out!

Your partner wants are being allowed to override your needs. Start by learning the difference between your needs and your wants. That way itr is easier to concentrate on establishing your needs a s your right.

Its not easy and you will be faced with severe extinction bursts as your partner tries to restablish the status quo. The status quo is what you are trying to change.

Thank you, you are right, I know I need 12 hours or 50% of the day to be about me, not about him, in my own head and heart. If I were to allow him he would completely dominate me in body, mind and soul all the time, everywhere.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Unicorn2014,

Total domination via emotional connectedness was what my BPDxbf wanted too. And when I tried to redress the balance it did lead to a number of extinction bursts (temper tantrums is as accurate a description). I walked away. Good luck. In my opinion, it's not possible to live in that kind of prison long-term.

Love

Lifewriter

x

[unicorn2014]

Hi Unicorn2014,

Total domination via emotional connectedness was what my BPDxbf wanted too. And when I tried to redress the balance it did lead to a number of extinction bursts (temper tantrums is as accurate a description). I walked away. Good luck. In my opinion, it's not possible to live in that kind of prison long-term.

Love

Lifewriter

x

Can I ask you to be more specific? Did he want to be connected to you all the time, everywhere, with everything you do? Did he always want to know what  you were feeling and thinking? How did you try to redress the balance? How long were you with him before you walked away? Thank you for sharing!

[Lifewriter16]

Hi there Unicorn2014,

My BPDxbf didn't really want emotional connectedness, because he didn't want to know what I was actually thinking or feeling because he already thought that he knew. What he wanted was for me to be there to help him deal with whatever emotion came up for him whenever it came up. So he wanted to be connected to his one-way system of emotional support.

My BPDxbf generally chose to maintain his sense of connectedness by text and it was the tyranny of the text message that wreaked most havoc on my sanity. I believe he used the medium of text to exert control. I got to the point where I reacted anxiously to every text alert. I was in a state of dread, just in case it was my boyfriend.

When we first met, exchanging 100 texts each a day seemed sweet, if rather excessive. It became a burden though because I often didn't know how to respond to his texts. I didn't know if he was giving me information and thus I needn't reply, or if there was some hidden upset that required a response to prevent him from directing his upset at me. If I didn't get it right, he would get abusive by text. He would accuse me of ranting, call me names, swear at me on occasion, tell me what was wrong with me, tell me it was over, tell me he couldn't take it anymore, tell me I wanted to leave, tell me he was going to leave, tell me he knew I never really loved him and other variations on the theme - all by text.

The first thing that I did to try to redress the balance in our relationship was that I told him that I thought he was making assumptions about what I was feeling based upon what he was feeling and started telling him when my feelings were different to the ones he said I was feeling.

The second thing that I did to try to redress the balance was I talked to him about feeling that my needs were not being met in the relationship, that I was beginning to feel upset and was thinking: "What about me?" That caused massive problems. It was the thing that caused him to move from seeing me as the solution to his problems to being the problem myself.

The third thing I did to try and redress the balance was I talked to him calmly over coffee about the problem I was having with text messages. I said I was getting anxious, that it was making me ill and told him why I was finding it hard. He agreed to limit texts to twice a day. Later that day he started texting out of the agreed time, so I re-sent the text where we'd agreed upon that solution. He responded by text saying I was rude and a 'selfish b***ch' and then he dumped me. Now, I know that was an extinction burst. 

The fourth thing I did to try and redress the balance was I told him that I needed time to myself to deal with my own issues. He agreed in theory but when I implemented it, he raged at me by text for 36 hours before eventually agreeing to meet me when he started the whole process again, telling me his needs were not being met, he wasn't seeing enough of me to be able to stay connected. When I said I couldn't meet his needs, he started detailing the emotional issues he felt I needed to deal with to be able to be with him. He kept telling me I wanted to end it and I should get on and do it. He stood up on a number of occasions saying "Shall I walk away?" I just ignored him. He sat down again. He said I should 'look in the mirror' and then went into a diatribe about my faults, but I just let his insults be drowned out by the noise of the nearby river. I sat calm and serene whilst he raged at me. As he mentioned the mirror, I saw an image of a two-way mirror rather than a conventional one. I was looking through it at him. I was seeing what I was seeing. I decided that was enough. I offered him friendshp instead. He initially agreed but decided to go no contact instead. To cut a long story short, we're not seeing each other anymore, though we've exchanged a couple of texts about a significant event in his life.

Obviously, this is a simplified potted history but my experience of setting boundaries is almighty resistance from my BPDxbf and massive repercussions. On the bright side, I am now immune to him dumping me, he has cured me of my fear of him leaving me. Actually, I think he's cured me of my love for him too.

I knew my BPDxbf for a year and a half, we met 6 months before we stated dating. We dated for a year, but we split up 7 times in that period and must have been apart for about 4 months of that 12 month period in total. Thankfully, we weren't married and we have no children together. It was an emotional rollercoaster ride.

I hope this helps in some way, Unicorn.

Love Lifewriter

[babyducks]

I think I really need to know the difference between validating and enabling.

Hi unicorn,

I think you are right,  it is hard to know the difference between validating and enabling.   I don't think I am particularly good at validating.   It's not easy to do and for me it doesn't come naturally.   

For me validating starts with acknowledging the emotion that's going on.  Not necessarily in big ways.   My P used to say Less is More.   Basic validation statements for me are "ok", "I can see what you are saying" and "I understand what you mean".   Nothing more than that.  Not agreeing with it.  Not changing anything.   

For me enabling begins with changing things that make me feel uncomfortable.    That's the start of the slippery slope for me.   Listening to my inner voice around what my needs are, like waverider mentioned,  and sticking with them helps me avoid enabling.

Just for an example.  I require more sleep than my partner.   We used to have fights about it.   Big fights about it.   She would want me to stay up later, do more and I would cave in causing me to be tired all the time.   

I eventually told her I need to regularly get a good nights sleep (boundary) because its important I feel well and not overtired (value).

And I started going to bed earlier and saying no to things. I didn't explain it in any detail. The more energy I put into explaining it the more energy she was going to put into arguing and I wanted to avoid that.  She didn't like the changes at first.  Several times she pushed against the boundary.   A couple of times she criticized it.   And I validated just a little.  Said yes I can see how you feel about this and kept right on doing it.   I also pointed out that me being overtired was not good for either of us.

Now it's just part of our routine and she helps enforce the boundary.  From my side I needed to understand that the immediate reaction I got was just her way of expressing her emotions, and her emotions are always intense.  I don't need to react to them.   

Its not easy and you will be faced with severe extinction bursts as your partner tries to reestablish the status quo. The status quo is what you are trying to change.

It won't be easy to try and change this.  Your bf will react and you will need to be centered and stay the course. 

is this starting to make some sense?

'ducks

[waverider]

Being able to say no is an essential tool in maintaining who you are.

Prolonged exposure to a BPD relationship slowly erodes this tool to the point that you cant maintain who you are.

It is an important tool to rediscover, it is the cornerstone of choice.

An ability to choose is a first step towards healthy progress

[unicorn2014]

Hi there Unicorn2014,

My BPDxbf didn't really want emotional connectedness, because he didn't want to know what I was actually thinking or feeling because he already thought that he knew. What he wanted was for me to be there to help him deal with whatever emotion came up for him whenever it came up. So he wanted to be connected to his one-way system of emotional support.

I'm very sorry you went through this. I think my BPDbf wants to know what I'm thinking and feeling a) so he can feel close to me and b) so he can use it against me if he feels he needs to protect himself.

I know for myself I made a policy of no serious communication via text and he knows now that I will redirect him if he attempts to do this. I resent being put in the position of being the goal keeper but I know if I am going to create the kind of relationship I want this is the only way its going to happen. Eventually his violating that kind of boundary may be a deal breaker. I like you have not married him yet, luckily for me its still a long distance relationship and he's still going through a divorce, which I think has saved me a lot of trouble.

I also know at this point that if my BPDbf threatened to break up with me over text I would let it go and let him do this. I would not chase him. I've been through too much with him to recycle the relationship.

I have another question in my head about what is a codependent/BPD relationship which I will post a little later this morning.

Thank you for your honest and thorough reply. I can totally relate! I need to better learn how to use the quotation system so I can quote more of your message later.

[unicorn2014]

I think I really need to know the difference between validating and enabling.

And I started going to bed earlier and saying no to things. I didn't explain it in any detail. The more energy I put into explaining it the more energy she was going to put into arguing and I wanted to avoid that.  She didn't like the changes at first.  Several times she pushed against the boundary.   A couple of times she criticized it.   And I validated just a little.  Said yes I can see how you feel about this and kept right on doing it.   I also pointed out that me being overtired was not good for either of us.

This does make sense to me and I have the same issue with my BPDbf but thankfully we live long distance so we don't have to sleep in the same bed. I like how you said you don't explain yourself. I really get into trouble with that one. I try to set up all kinds of boundaries around bed time like no talking about serious issues at night, an hour to wind down before bed, and he totally does not respect my boundaries. Last night I did something different where I just good night its time for bed and I'm sure he didn't like that but I did, so I see I'm going to have to do that again. It helps that I set a bedtime that I can point to so its not something random. Its crazy to think I have to ask permission from another adult to go to bed! I'm sure not willing to do that anymore.

[unicorn2014]

Being able to say no is an essential tool in maintaining who you are.

Prolonged exposure to a BPD relationship slowly erodes this tool to the point that you cant maintain who you are.

It is an important tool to rediscover, it is the cornerstone of choice.

An ability to choose is a first step towards healthy progress

Thank you for this. I'm even more concerned now I am in a codependent relationship as I know I've had issues with this in the past so I'm going to have to read up on this topic and post about it if I have questions. My BPDbf seems to want to take away my ability to say no with all his talk about commitment. It makes me very weary of marrying him with that kind of control looming on the horizon. I've already been through one controlling marriage. I sure don't want to go through another one!