Could use help... Struggling to reconcile with sudden breakup and being erased

[Shattered-soull]

Hi everyone,

I was in a two year relarionship with a female partner who I believe has BPD.  She is super intelligent, usually caring, very passio ate and romantic, successful at work, beautiful.  We are both divorced with young kids.

Our relationship is... .Well was... .similar to many on here... .

We formed an amazing intellectual and emotional connection in the first few months.  We both enjoyed a super romantic and public love affair. Our physical chemistry was insanely good.  And we just had a ton of common and enjoyed each others company immensely.  We were planning a future together (wedding rings, planning a beach wedding, etc.).  She is very perceptive of people dynamics and theives at work.

It was awesome when things were great.  Better than I ever knew love could be.

She is an intelligent, analytical individual.  She came from a family with very emotional personalities and had a challenging upbringing by a mother who appears to have an even worse case of BPD.  She has been very succesful in life and overcome many challenges through daily reflection and self improvement.

She is self aware of herself and has indepently done a lot of reading and self practice to moderate a few emotional reaponses.  The key ones she is aware of and works to manage are:

- very strong jealousy that borders on the irrational.  Small things that would not upset most things trigger huge emotional responses.

- when she is upset discussions on these topics would result in relentless four hour long plus discussions where she would not consider alternative opinions no matter how lovingly or logically shared.  Even if I just agreed to her points to calm the storm, she would still lash out and grill me for hours... .Even if I just stared at the floor dejected the whole time.  Many times I would literally be sitting in tears and she would still be lashing out.

- to her it was very frustrating thst I dis not just intuitively recognize why these things were important... .For me I felt like I was always on eggshells.

- when things were good I could not wait to see her and every text brought happy thoughts to my heart.  When they were bad I dreaded each text not knowing what hurtful thing she might say.

- when we would argue she will grow progressively more agitated and it is nearly impossible to stop the escalation.  She would speak super fast and move from one topic to another so fast I could not keep up.  Usually my opinions were derided or she would point out why I was so flawed in my logic.

- when she is angry or hurt she is super sarcastic and hurtful... .Some of the worst things ever said to me were from her.  And also the most loving and kind.

- typically after a major fight she would withdraw emotionally for days and either not speak to me or speak via curtly via text with the occasional barb thrown in.

Additionally, the following things were themes about our relationship

- her view of many issues were very black and white... .there are many tooics she was not willing to co promise on.

- i am historically a smart, confident guy.  But I Would leave thes argument sessions feeling devalued and despised and unsure of my own judgement.

- She broke up with me... .Or was in "evaluating things" probably a dozen times... .I was always the first to reach out to bring us back togetjer.

- i have been an incredibly loyal and committed partner.  I have gone way beyong the normal guy to make her feel loved, show my loyalty, and compromise to help make the relationship work.  I am not perfect, can be stubborn, and have some of the classic guy EQ challenges, etc.

- she generally has a bias that people are shady and cannot be trusted... .Especially women

- she was super slow to build trust that I was loyal to her despite a long series of very big public demonstrations of love and fidelity

- After we would fight for a few days we would reconcile and she would be super sweet and loving.  And very appreciative of everything I had done and sacrificed to make the relationship work.  The next time we fought however she would chastise me and say that those saceifices were not valued because they only occured because she dinally convinced me to seee what was plainly obvious.

- she is a caring mother... .Good caregiver and was great with my kids.

- she does not discipline her children hardly at all.  They run the house and do what they want when they want... .Even if she has repeatedly told them to stop.  The handful of times that I corrected them (in a way that I would use with my own children... .I am not super strict or anthing) triggered enormous responses from her.  She characterized me as an evil draconian influence who was a harmful presence to her children.  I never touched them, raised my voice, or anything else

- she is super smart... .Half the time there would be really good insights embedded in her onservations... .Truly valid and insightful things.  And the other times it would be totally irrational.  She often saw legit issues I did not.  But she also saw things that simply did not exist just as often.

- the negative behaviors always flared up when I would go through stressful periods in my life... .Loss of a family member, etc.

- the cycling between amazing and loving and devaluing and being distant or sarcastic happened comparitvely quickly... .we would seperate for a few days usually as she cooled down and logiced her way back to baseline.  This was hard on me as the emotional separation was harder on me than on her.

-She has refused to go to counseling in the past as she does not trust therapists (her BPD mother was accountsble for negative experiences with them in her youth).

- After a period of cycling over parenting styles... .in which I was characterized as the harsh and draconian parent who was going to ruin her children (i am not and have never yelled or done anything than tell them they may go to time out if they repeatedly don't listen) , she abruptly broke off and ended the relationship definitively.  Her rationale did not make sense and she even accused me of abusing my own children (despite absolutely zero reason to believe that was in any way true.).  In her mind, she absolutely views me as a danger to her children... .To which I am baffled.

She has subsequently gone full non-contact, unfriended me, my family, and every friend she has made through our relationship over the last few years.  She did it without warning or communicating to them why.  Her limited interactions with me via were acidic - "don't text me again or you will regret the day you were born".  I think she fears if I were to pursue her she might again return to the relationship... .Which in her mind is bad for the family.

I am heartbroken that someone i had suxh an amazing a close connection with (we would text 30 times a day if not together), was planning a wedding, etc. with has so ubruptly and without any openess to discussion ended things.  And done it in such a way that makes me sound evil and shows no compassion.

She ended things a week ago.  I am trying hard to move on and heal.  But the way it ended is making it very difficult... .It is very painful to me that someone who knew EVERYTHING about me, and loved me so deeply, abruptly decided I was evil and so negatively ended things.

This forum has been super insightful.  I would appreicate your take on whether this sounds like she had BPD?   She never stole, was violent with me,etc. she is also super succesdul professionally in navigating tough political encironments.  She is thoughtful and has made progress on many of the core emotional challenges she is aware of.   When not triggered, she is super thoughtful and logical.  And emotionally she has a lot of depth... .Our emotional bond was increidbly tight.  And yet so many of the traits of BPD (and of me as a partner /codependent) seem to ring true in our relationship. She also has a history of volatile relationships with others where they cycle in and out of favor.

I would also appreciate any advice on letting go and moving on... .I am in full withdraw right now and despite everything would still love to be with her... .As long as we sought some professional help.  The way things ended is agaonizing for me... .I loved and was fully devoted to her.

I am following the lessons on here and am working to assess what I did to help enable things.  I am a natural caregiver type personality and I definitely failed to maintain appropriate boundaries as well.

Thank you for tski the time to read all of this and share your thoughts.  Sorry it is so long and loosely structured... .Been a long night.

Sincerely... .Shattered

[enlighten me]

Hi Shattered

What you wrote is almost identical to what I could have written about my exgf. Whether or not she has BPD it sounds like she definitely has some major issues.

It is one of the hardest things I have ever done getting over the break up. There are a lot of things that can help but as the cliché go time is the best healer.

It hurts so much for someone you have loved and that loved you to all of a sudden hate you. With my exgf I see it as her way of protecting herself. By pushing me away and hating me she can justify her behaviour and not face any guilt or shame. We also use this painting black to help us heal. It makes it easier to not reach out to someone if you hate them.

There are a number of things that help post break up.

Avoid alcohol and drugs. You will end up more depressed and do something stupid.

Talk about it. I found that I needed to get it off my chest. I bored my friends silly going on about until one day I just didn't want to talk about it. I had got bored of it.

Reorganise. De cluttering your physical life helps to organise you mentally.

Do something for you. Whether its new clothes, a haircut or a new toy do something selfish and just for you.

Find a distraction. Video games, a hobby, music, food (not in a binge eat yourself way)... .whatever distracts you from thinking about them.

Do something to feel proud of. Whether its going somewhere new, learning a skill or renovating something. By doing this you will increase your sense of self worth.

I went on a cheap holiday to Turkey and learnt to scuba dive. It was something I had always wanted to do and something I would never have been able to do with my ex.

Personality disorders are complicated. Theyre like an onion where just as you think your starting to understand you find another layer. I would recommend reading up and trying to understand the behaviour. Eventually you find out just as much about yourself as you do your ex.

[poedameron]

I could have wrote this about my exBPDgf ... .except she is also a huge liar and destroys whatever close relationships she has and starts new ones ever couple years once people figure her out.

Read my post about BPD Fight Transcript I just made... .it will probably sound like your ex.

I know it's f-ing hard, it's only been 3 weeks for me, but better now than later... .imagine if you got married and you had to deal with that crap for years... .seriously there are so many other woman out there that are not like this... .

... .I know that a big part of the allure for me at least was the insane good times, which is simply the other side of the BPD coin... .you can't have one without the other.  So really, if you run into another one of these women, just do it knowing you're not going to get too attached... .just enjoy it and let her chase you.

Just don't get involved too much emotionally or you will get wrecked, there is no other ending to a serious relationship with these women.  Easier said than done... .and if you can't handle that, just avoid these types of emotional women... .I know I have to now.

[Shattered-soull]

Thank you both so much for your thoughts and support - i would love to hear other's perspectives too!

[oor_wullie]

gosh. there's so much here it's hard to know where to start.

everything i'm going to say here is from a place of trying to help you get over this. and the key to doing that is to seeing the situation, seeing her, for what she really is. accepting, then moving on. because you will never, ever move on if you continue to cling to what i see as a very muddled view of who she is, and what your relationship was. i say "muddled" from a place of compassion and understanding, because i have been there too.

first, you're describing two COMPLETELY different people. stop for a moment and consider her:

- she's aware of herself, and seeks to manage a "few" emotional responses, she's "usually" caring

- very jealous, argues for hours, lashes out at you, doesn't care if you cry

- she's a good mother

- she lets her kids do what they want and never disciplines them. seeks to control their relationship with you by cutting you off from them

there are loads of other contradictions in your account of her, and your relationship. these are all your words, and it's almost as though you're trying to persuade yourself she's a monster, and then trying to persuade yourself that no, she's wonderful. i've been through the same thing, over and over, with my ex.

first things first. regardless of anything, she sounds like a very problematic person. she isn't compassionate, and she isn't considerate of others. she treats you like absolute garbage, and you really need to accept that, and realise that that will never, ever change. you've tried incredibly hard to mitigate her behaviour. you've stayed listening to her shouting/arguing at you when any other person would have walked away. you've put up with her wild swings from loving to hating. you've accepted her back into your life when she's walked away and ditched you flat over next to nothing.

this is not a good relationship.

the start, where everything was perfect, where you had this fantastic connection, is typical of BPD relationships. there is a lot of literature on this site that i advise you to read. it will likely describe a lot of the experience you've had.

my exBPD was the same. she was the most wonderful beautiful, passionate woman i'd ever met. as time went on, her negative behaviours started to get worse and worse, but i excused them because i loved her. that's the way love works. BPDs have the ability to take this to the next level tho - they lie, and they present themselves and their situation in a way that will make them seem perfect to you. they invite your sympathy and empathy by telling you lots of terrible stories from their lives (her mother, her previous relationships). these stories are likely exaggerated. imagine, if you will, the sorts of stories she may tell other people about you - she already twists everything against you when she argues with you, she will twist things the same way when she describes these incidents to other people.

ultimately, i realised that my exBPD lied about nearly everything. she recycled me twice. each time i foolishly accepted her, wanting to believe that she'd changed. wanting to rekindle this wonderful thing we'd once had. each time started the same way - lots of terrible stories of sadness and loss, and how finding me meant the world to her, and i was lifting her out of the darkness. i was her hero. i felt like a god! and then the bad stuff started up again. and on it went until i couldn't stand it anymore.

the children thing is interesting. here's a snippet from some of the literature on this site:

"Predictably, however, as soon as the baby has independent striving, the borderline parent experiences abandonment at the hands of their very own child. Such abandonment or individuation is impossible for the borderline to tolerate and thus they react to their own child with distaste, anger, ignoring behavior, and they use any other means necessary to thwart their child's independence. The child learns that independence and individuation is horrifying to the parent, on whom the child absolutely depends for everything. The child then adapts to the parent's needs by maintaining some level of merger with the parent, and denying their own need for recognition of their true nature and/or independence. The behavior developed by the child is only the behavior that is pleasing to the parent, and thus does not reflect what is specifically special in the child. "

my exBPD had a dog. she loved that dog - doted on it. she got it during a 4 year period of painting me black. it became the centre of her world when she got it. when she recycled me, she'd had it for about 2 years. the dog really loved me. at first, she brought the dog with her whenever she visited me. but after a while, she started finding excuses for not bringing it. it kept getting ill for no reason. one time, the dog came into the bedroom while we were making love and she screamed at it, pushed it out of the room shouting, and slammed the door in its face. i think she used to do other things like that while i wasn't around, teaching it to not mess with her, and that she was the only person it was allowed to be affectionate to. it got steadily worse and worse as time went on.

i'm saying that there are ways that BPDs can emotionally manipulate kids, or dogs, that you can't see. but the kids/dog/dependants are made to understand that the BPD is the centre of their world, and that they are only allowed to show affection to the BPD. your ex never disciplined her kids because she didn't want them "turning" on her. she wanted to be the nicer person. she may even have manipulated that situation where you told them off, so that she could then tell YOU off, and ensure that they could see how she was the "good" parent who doesn't tell them off - that's you!

as time goes on, i stopped blaming myself for her horrible behaviour. stopped excusing her. i started seeing her for what she was. a lot the things i've described here sound like the ravings of someone convinced of a conspiracy theory - emotionally manipulating her dog? crazy! but when you read the literature, it starts to make sense. BPDs are exceptional manipulators, because they're doing it unconsciously - they're not even completely aware they're really doing it.

one of the reasons BPDs pick people like us, is that we're compassionate, and understanding. we blame ourselves. instead of assuming some conspiracy, or thinking that they're lying. we accept them at their word. they shout and scream at us, and we just sit there and meekly take it. we're good people.

that's why it takes people so long to recover from a BPD. it's not just the BPDs, it's OUR ability to be compassionate and caring.

you're very much in danger of getting sucked back in. you're clearly not quite ready to accept who and what she is. but you're starting to, or you wouldn't be here. that's a big step, and you're to be congratulated.

i can't speak for anyone else, but the way i moved on finally was when i started to realise that so much of what she said to me was a lie.  she lied by omission too. and she lied to others. and i realised that her problematic behaviours would never improve. she'd never accept any responsibility for herself. sure, she'd get upset if she upset me, and feel remorse, but only in as much as she was expecting me to forgive her. she only wanted absolution. if it didn't come, her moment of clarity would dissolve, and she'd find someone to REALLY blame. usually it was my fault for acting so upset at her horrible behaviour - why couldn't i just hug her? why did i have to make it worse by acting so hurt?

on and on. round and around.

you know what? it's a crock. no one should have to put up with this much crap from their partner. no one who loves someone does the things my ex did, and they don't do the things YOUR ex did. they just don't! there's no excuse for that behaviour.

you deserve so much better. the truth is that being alone is SO much better than being with her. it really is. forget the highs - they were few and far between, and you really had to fight for each one of them, didn't you? instead, remember the lows, and how bad they made you feel, and how you were constantly waiting for one of the lows to come, because they were inevitable. the highs were hard won, the lows were inevitable. how is that a relationship? how does that make you happy?

i sit alone and miss her, even after all the crap she did. and then i remember so many times when i sat alone while we were together - either wondering where she was (she went out drinking with her friends, a lot, and i was never invited), or what she was doing. or waiting, knowing that she was going to cancel on me for some random reason. or dreading the next text because i know she's going to react to some very slightly negative thing i was forced to say to her.

on eggshells, in other words. the same word you used. and pretty much all the time.

she isn't going to change. she just isn't. she's also not the person you think she is. she's the person you describe here, in between the nice things that you've said about her. she's the negative stuff, because that is her default state of being. she isn't nice and sometimes a bit nasty. it's the other way around. i'm sorry to have to say that about someone you clearly love, but accepting what she is is the only way to ever be free.

i hope some of this has helped.

[enlighten me]

oor wullie

I had to laugh when you mentioned the dog. My ex wife ruined everyone she had. They became neurotic messes. I of course was blamed for this. The fact that she babied them until she grew bored of them then abandoned them had nothing to do with it.

Yes for me realising the lies and adding the filter that everything was a lie helped a lot with detachment.  It is not a route I would recommend in the beginning though as when your still very angry and sore it could lead to more problems. After a while though I realised that not everything was a lie. Just because they did what they did doesn't mean that they didn't love you it just means they stopped loving you. Therefore them saying I love you wasn't a lie because at the time they meant it.

[Bigmd]

Dude ur situation mirrors mine. I'm a month or so out and trying to get better. I go to therapy also. It's helps to understand that they prob don't even understand how they hurt you. Or realize that they are hurting you. For me it helps to read posts here. I even bought  and read 2 books on it.

[goateeki]

gosh. there's so much here it's hard to know where to start.

everything i'm going to say here is from a place of trying to help you get over this. and the key to doing that is to seeing the situation, seeing her, for what she really is. accepting, then moving on. because you will never, ever move on if you continue to cling to what i see as a very muddled view of who she is, and what your relationship was. i say "muddled" from a place of compassion and understanding, because i have been there too.

first, you're describing two COMPLETELY different people. stop for a moment and consider her:

- she's aware of herself, and seeks to manage a "few" emotional responses, she's "usually" caring

- very jealous, argues for hours, lashes out at you, doesn't care if you cry

- she's a good mother

- she lets her kids do what they want and never disciplines them. seeks to control their relationship with you by cutting you off from them

there are loads of other contradictions in your account of her, and your relationship. these are all your words, and it's almost as though you're trying to persuade yourself she's a monster, and then trying to persuade yourself that no, she's wonderful. i've been through the same thing, over and over, with my ex.

first things first. regardless of anything, she sounds like a very problematic person. she isn't compassionate, and she isn't considerate of others. she treats you like absolute garbage, and you really need to accept that, and realise that that will never, ever change. you've tried incredibly hard to mitigate her behaviour. you've stayed listening to her shouting/arguing at you when any other person would have walked away. you've put up with her wild swings from loving to hating. you've accepted her back into your life when she's walked away and ditched you flat over next to nothing.

this is not a good relationship.

the start, where everything was perfect, where you had this fantastic connection, is typical of BPD relationships. there is a lot of literature on this site that i advise you to read. it will likely describe a lot of the experience you've had.

my exBPD was the same. she was the most wonderful beautiful, passionate woman i'd ever met. as time went on, her negative behaviours started to get worse and worse, but i excused them because i loved her. that's the way love works. BPDs have the ability to take this to the next level tho - they lie, and they present themselves and their situation in a way that will make them seem perfect to you. they invite your sympathy and empathy by telling you lots of terrible stories from their lives (her mother, her previous relationships). these stories are likely exaggerated. imagine, if you will, the sorts of stories she may tell other people about you - she already twists everything against you when she argues with you, she will twist things the same way when she describes these incidents to other people.

ultimately, i realised that my exBPD lied about nearly everything. she recycled me twice. each time i foolishly accepted her, wanting to believe that she'd changed. wanting to rekindle this wonderful thing we'd once had. each time started the same way - lots of terrible stories of sadness and loss, and how finding me meant the world to her, and i was lifting her out of the darkness. i was her hero. i felt like a god! and then the bad stuff started up again. and on it went until i couldn't stand it anymore.

the children thing is interesting. here's a snippet from some of the literature on this site:

"Predictably, however, as soon as the baby has independent striving, the borderline parent experiences abandonment at the hands of their very own child. Such abandonment or individuation is impossible for the borderline to tolerate and thus they react to their own child with distaste, anger, ignoring behavior, and they use any other means necessary to thwart their child's independence. The child learns that independence and individuation is horrifying to the parent, on whom the child absolutely depends for everything. The child then adapts to the parent's needs by maintaining some level of merger with the parent, and denying their own need for recognition of their true nature and/or independence. The behavior developed by the child is only the behavior that is pleasing to the parent, and thus does not reflect what is specifically special in the child. "

my exBPD had a dog. she loved that dog - doted on it. she got it during a 4 year period of painting me black. it became the centre of her world when she got it. when she recycled me, she'd had it for about 2 years. the dog really loved me. at first, she brought the dog with her whenever she visited me. but after a while, she started finding excuses for not bringing it. it kept getting ill for no reason. one time, the dog came into the bedroom while we were making love and she screamed at it, pushed it out of the room shouting, and slammed the door in its face. i think she used to do other things like that while i wasn't around, teaching it to not mess with her, and that she was the only person it was allowed to be affectionate to. it got steadily worse and worse as time went on.

i'm saying that there are ways that BPDs can emotionally manipulate kids, or dogs, that you can't see. but the kids/dog/dependants are made to understand that the BPD is the centre of their world, and that they are only allowed to show affection to the BPD. your ex never disciplined her kids because she didn't want them "turning" on her. she wanted to be the nicer person. she may even have manipulated that situation where you told them off, so that she could then tell YOU off, and ensure that they could see how she was the "good" parent who doesn't tell them off - that's you!

as time goes on, i stopped blaming myself for her horrible behaviour. stopped excusing her. i started seeing her for what she was. a lot the things i've described here sound like the ravings of someone convinced of a conspiracy theory - emotionally manipulating her dog? crazy! but when you read the literature, it starts to make sense. BPDs are exceptional manipulators, because they're doing it unconsciously - they're not even completely aware they're really doing it.

one of the reasons BPDs pick people like us, is that we're compassionate, and understanding. we blame ourselves. instead of assuming some conspiracy, or thinking that they're lying. we accept them at their word. they shout and scream at us, and we just sit there and meekly take it. we're good people.

that's why it takes people so long to recover from a BPD. it's not just the BPDs, it's OUR ability to be compassionate and caring.

you're very much in danger of getting sucked back in. you're clearly not quite ready to accept who and what she is. but you're starting to, or you wouldn't be here. that's a big step, and you're to be congratulated.

i can't speak for anyone else, but the way i moved on finally was when i started to realise that so much of what she said to me was a lie.  she lied by omission too. and she lied to others. and i realised that her problematic behaviours would never improve. she'd never accept any responsibility for herself. sure, she'd get upset if she upset me, and feel remorse, but only in as much as she was expecting me to forgive her. she only wanted absolution. if it didn't come, her moment of clarity would dissolve, and she'd find someone to REALLY blame. usually it was my fault for acting so upset at her horrible behaviour - why couldn't i just hug her? why did i have to make it worse by acting so hurt?

on and on. round and around.

you know what? it's a crock. no one should have to put up with this much crap from their partner. no one who loves someone does the things my ex did, and they don't do the things YOUR ex did. they just don't! there's no excuse for that behaviour.

you deserve so much better. the truth is that being alone is SO much better than being with her. it really is. forget the highs - they were few and far between, and you really had to fight for each one of them, didn't you? instead, remember the lows, and how bad they made you feel, and how you were constantly waiting for one of the lows to come, because they were inevitable. the highs were hard won, the lows were inevitable. how is that a relationship? how does that make you happy?

i sit alone and miss her, even after all the crap she did. and then i remember so many times when i sat alone while we were together - either wondering where she was (she went out drinking with her friends, a lot, and i was never invited), or what she was doing. or waiting, knowing that she was going to cancel on me for some random reason. or dreading the next text because i know she's going to react to some very slightly negative thing i was forced to say to her.

on eggshells, in other words. the same word you used. and pretty much all the time.

she isn't going to change. she just isn't. she's also not the person you think she is. she's the person you describe here, in between the nice things that you've said about her. she's the negative stuff, because that is her default state of being. she isn't nice and sometimes a bit nasty. it's the other way around. i'm sorry to have to say that about someone you clearly love, but accepting what she is is the only way to ever be free.

i hope some of this has helped.

I have to say -- and I apologize for quoting someone at length here -- that this response (quoted) nails it.  This is a really thoughtful response and to the extent we advise each other here, this is great advice.  Very objective. Great stuff.

Agree with all of it. 

I think that it's important that we all realize that the pwBPD we are dealing with is the way they are because it is WHO they are.  These personality factors were baked in before we ever crossed paths with them, and their unusual, troubling, counterproductive responses to the normal flow of relationships really has NOTHING TO DO with the non.  It took me almost two full years to realize this, to really accept it.  But I see it as the truth now.

I'd also add that the people who manage to involve themselves for any length of time with a pwBPD (I was one) are by their nature people who make things work -- all kinds of things. We find solutions.  This is not a bad trait, it's a good trait, provided that the other person in the relationship is a healthy, responsible adult capable of reciprocity.  If this isn't who we are involved with (if the other isn't capable of reciprocity), then the thing that comes to hold the relationship together is the non's adaptability.  But we can't do this forever because human adaptability is a finite resource. It's like scuba diving. Eventually, you're going to run out of air.

Last thing: in therapy, the most valuable thing I learned is that the only thing that matters in a relationship is behavior.  Who the other (in our case, the pwBPD) is, what their story is, where they came from, the WHY of their behavior -- these things aren't real "things" inasmuch as they don't really have bearing on our daily lives with the pwBPD.  We tend to explain and excuse as a means of making relationships work.  But the behavior we observe and have to deal with -- this is who the pwBPD REALLY IS.  That person who devalues you, who seems incapable of even the most basic signals of empathy -- that is who that person really is.  That's real.  Accept other pwBPD's behavior as real, and know that's who they really are. Then you'll know that this relationship, the one that consumes so much of our emotional resource, is maybe the one relationship we can afford to lose. 

[oor_wullie]

I had to laugh when you mentioned the dog. My ex wife ruined everyone she had. They became neurotic messes. I of course was blamed for this. The fact that she babied them until she grew bored of them then abandoned them had nothing to do with it.

watching her with the dog, and watching the dog's changing behaviour, was incredibly useful. i saw myself in that dog eventually, and it gave me real pause for reflection. it also persuaded me of the sheer power of BPD to manipulate pretty much anything sentient. that total need for control. it's truly terrifying.

Yes for me realising the lies and adding the filter that everything was a lie helped a lot with detachment.  It is not a route I would recommend in the beginning though as when your still very angry and sore it could lead to more problems. After a while though I realised that not everything was a lie. Just because they did what they did doesn't mean that they didn't love you it just means they stopped loving you. Therefore them saying I love you wasn't a lie because at the time they meant it.

so i really see what you're saying here, about them loving us. i'm going to suggest something difficult though. my own feeling is that they don't. i came to feel, for myself, that my ex never loved me. it was an important part of my recovery, because clinging on to the very particular and intense way BPDs love us, and the way she loved me, was partly why it was so very hard to let go. no one wants to lose that intense passion. and one feels that if one deserved it once, then one must be to blame for losing it too.

so what is real?

they paint us black, to hate us. but the things they use to paint us black are fantasies. i see that over and over on these boards. they make up crazy stuff, or they twist real things, to make us seem worthy of their hate. that much everyone seems to agree on, even tho we often blame ourselves, and part of letting go of THEM is letting go of the guilt that maybe we caused that hate. we didn't.

but, in order to love us, they paint us white. and this is, surely, just as much of a fantasy, just as unsustainable, just as unrealistically overpowered as their feelings of hate towards us.

so often i see on these boards the terrible confusion and pain caused by trying to work out how someone who loved us so much, suddenly flips and hates us. perhaps the answer is that neither emotion was real.

i guess i'm speaking for myself here, but i know my exBPD never actually loved me. i know that, at the time, she WANTED to believe she loved me. she NEEDED to believe she loved me. but i don't believe that she ever really felt anything TRUE at all. i know she didn't love me the way i loved her. and she couldn't look me in the eye when she told me she loved me. and she barely ever said it unprompted.

i do believe it was as close to love as she was capable of. but it never brought her any peace or happiness the way real love does.

it's been years and years for me, so i'm very much in the later stages of dealing with this. and i've had a lot of time for reflection. i've realised that the thing that keeps me on the hook, still, after all these years, is the hope that one day i might again feel the light, that huge, blinding, beautiful light, of love from her again. that overwhelming feeling of basking in someone's total adoration. it's what kept me going back to her over and over, and it's what made me forgive every awful thing she did, and it's what made me have to blame myself for all the problems.

and it was a fantasy. no one, not even a god, is deserving of the full light of that kind of love. it doesn't exist. and no one is deserving of the full might of that hate either.

and yet still i look back and see her as i imagined her to be. once you're hypnotised, it never really goes away.

[enlighten me]

oor wullie

You raise a number of points that I would like to go over.

Firstly you need your ex not to have loved you. Like everyone here we all have different coping mechanisms. Because that works for you doesn't mean it works for someone else. For me I found that it was a phase of my recovery that I went through. Now it sits more comfortably with me that in her own special way she did love me and in her own special way it turned to hate. Its been 4 years since my ex wife dumped me and 1 1/2 years since I left my uBPD exgf. I don't hold onto any thought of reconciliation with either of them. Yes they do still from time to time get under my skin but that's the joy of having kids with these people.

Secondly you mention love. What is love? Is it a bio chemical reaction? some deep mystical thing? or is it something else? We all have our own idea of what love is. Does this make a BPDs version of it any less real to them?

You are obviously knowledgeable and have a good insight into the condition. Please don't take this the wrong way but im going to suggest something difficult. You wont allow yourself to believe her capable of love because you fear that it will somehow force the hook deeper.

I hope this hasn't come across wrong I just wanted to give you some food for thought. Believe me when I say I never fully detatched (or got to the point of detachment that Im at) until I stopped seeing everything as a lie. In fact seeing everything as a lie probably made things worse because it made me the biggest mug in the world if I had bought all those lies. Remember a good con always has some element of truth.

[saintgrey]

Barricade yourself with close friends and family, people that you can talk and understand your situation, read the stories here and educate yourself its the only way to realize why do you feel this way.

[Shattered-soull]

Oor-wullie

Thank you so much for taking the time tomwrite such a long and thoughtful reply.  It is hard to argue with your logic... .It all rings quite true.

Goateeki and Everyone Else,

I am hugely appreciative of all of you taking the time to share your thoughts and support.  I had one (likely final) interaction with her today that was exceedingly rough and quite clearly "final"... . Complete with yelling and threats.  It was bery easy to slip into old self-doubting and apologetic habits.  At least this time I was self aware of the dynamic and able to manage it better.

For a sentimental guy... .Even knowing it is probably the best outcome for both of us... .It is very difficult to end a relationship you are so emotionally invested in that way.  Having the support of all of you tonight is wonderful.  Thank you.  And the insights from this board have also been very helpful in working through things.  Feeling very appreciative tonight - thanks.

[Aurora8]

Shattered, thank for this post. I just came back tonight after a loong time away and your story is like mine currently. This helped comfort me. Feeling distressed tonight, painted black again. It's a terrible and confusing feeling. I just hope I can't get through this again without ever recycling. I remember first posting here a few months into it with him after dealing with rage and painted black. Now it's just over 2 years off and on. Jeez, I miss him already though. And to be honest... .When I used to lurk here, it would make me crave him and I'd end up reaching out. Hope I can put the forum to better use this time :/

[oor_wullie]

oor wullie

You raise a number of points that I would like to go over.

Firstly you need your ex not to have loved you. Like everyone here we all have different coping mechanisms. Because that works for you doesn't mean it works for someone else. For me I found that it was a phase of my recovery that I went through. Now it sits more comfortably with me that in her own special way she did love me and in her own special way it turned to hate. Its been 4 years since my ex wife dumped me and 1 1/2 years since I left my uBPD exgf. I don't hold onto any thought of reconciliation with either of them. Yes they do still from time to time get under my skin but that's the joy of having kids with these people.

Secondly you mention love. What is love? Is it a bio chemical reaction? some deep mystical thing? or is it something else? We all have our own idea of what love is. Does this make a BPDs version of it any less real to them?

You are obviously knowledgeable and have a good insight into the condition. Please don't take this the wrong way but im going to suggest something difficult. You wont allow yourself to believe her capable of love because you fear that it will somehow force the hook deeper.

I hope this hasn't come across wrong I just wanted to give you some food for thought. Believe me when I say I never fully detatched (or got to the point of detachment that Im at) until I stopped seeing everything as a lie. In fact seeing everything as a lie probably made things worse because it made me the biggest mug in the world if I had bought all those lies. Remember a good con always has some element of truth.

i really appreciate your take on this topic, and i certainly don't take it the wrong way. we're all here to provide help, insight, and varying points of view. after all, each person is different, and each pwBPD is different too (even though there's a temptation to think of them all as being rather homogenous).

we are indeed all different. i actually found that my own path to letting go was *realising* that everything she ever said was either a lie, or was irretrievably corrupted by her lies. for example, all the good times i remember having are tainted by the subsequent realisation that she was sleeping with someone else, on and off, around the same time (i didn't know that then). i'll never know for sure that the moods she was in, or the times she didn't want to fool around, weren't because of something that was happening with that other guy.

and were the good times just caused by rebounds? i was certainly being used. so was the other guy.

i'll just never know. it's a rabbit-hole. unpicking it all just left me going around and around in my head, falling into the trap of trying to separate the person from the BPD from the behaviour. when i realised that the lies had in effect infected everything, i started being able to let go.

but that's my experience. my feelings. and my process. and it's also the way i feel about love, and the nature of love, which is also different for everyone.

the only thing i would finally add though, is that i've experienced chemical addiction, and i know a fair bit about the strategies for quitting. i'm four years sober! a great deal of the pain and suffering i read on this board sounds to me exactly like those struggling with recovery. by the way, giving up booze was a cakewalk compared to giving up my exBPD, so i have every sympathy.

a recurring theme is the particular kind of love that BPDs give to us. and a huge part of the way people have of being unable to let go, or of going back to their exBPDs, seems to centre around the desire to rekindle that love. to dampen the fires of their hate, and bask once again in the light of their love.

over time, certain drugs replace in us the natural highs we get from happiness, pleasure, sex. those things stop being the highest pleasure we can get, and instead the effect of the drug takes over as the number one pleasure. this is especially true of cocaine. that stuff literally reprograms your brain, until every natural high is replaced by the initial hit you get from that drug.

to me, BPD love is similar to that. it's like a highly refined form of the real thing. the danger comes when we try and form other relationships - if we haven't fully processed what the BPD relationship meant, and put it into its correct context, we're in danger of expecting that same type of love from other people. and we're in danger of never being able to let go of the BPD person either.

like drugs, the BPD love comes with a significant cost, and side-effects, that are not present in the "real thing".

i absolutely agree that it won't work for everyone, but for some people (me included), thinking about their love in these terms might be a helpful route to recovery.

i'd say this though, to people who can relate to what i've written here, that BPD people, and their love, are NOT the same thing as drugs. that's a simplistic analogy at best. being loved, and feeling loved, and especially giving love, are not bad things in and of themselves. love is beautiful, and regardless of what i've written here about the way i feel about the love my exBPD gave to me, i am hugely proud of the love that i poured into her, and into our relationship. the love WE can feel remains untainted, and a pure and noble expression of who we are as caring, loving people.

[enlighten me]

Hi oor wullie

There is so much you have written that I can relate to and agree with. The small differences in our opinions are just our personal way of dealing with it.

I read a while back that the brain scan of someone broken hearted from the end of a relationship was almost Identical to that of someone coming off of heroin. I can see the behaviour in my relationship with my exgf. I put up with so much just to get that hit again. A small compliment and I would be back to square one. This is why it took me so long to finish things.

[rotiroti]

Wow oor_wullie and goateeki, I wanted to quote your entire messages as they rang so true with me. As I am heading towards recovery I am really starting to come with the fact of who my fiancee truly is. It's a hard pill to swallow coming out of a fantasy, but it really is the truth of the situation. Thank you, i really needed to read those thoughts from people far along the healing path.

Last thing: in therapy, the most valuable thing I learned is that the only thing that matters in a relationship is behavior.  Who the other (in our case, the pwBPD) is, what their story is, where they came from, the WHY of their behavior -- these things aren't real "things" inasmuch as they don't really have bearing on our daily lives with the pwBPD.  We tend to explain and excuse as a means of making relationships work.  But the behavior we observe and have to deal with -- this is who the pwBPD REALLY IS.  That person who devalues you, who seems incapable of even the most basic signals of empathy -- that is who that person really is.  That's real.  Accept other pwBPD's behavior as real, and know that's who they really are. Then you'll know that this relationship, the one that consumes so much of our emotional resource, is maybe the one relationship we can afford to lose.

i do believe it was as close to love as she was capable of. but it never brought her any peace or happiness the way real love does.

[Shattered-soull]

Hello again,

Just a quick update following my first meeting with my therapist.  Kudos to all of you for calling it, she agreed with a lot of the sentiment here... .Including the presence of BPD tendencies... .All she can really confirm third hand.  Aaaaand that I have a ton of work to do on boundaries... .But thats not really a surprise.

I don't entertain visions of recycling, but I still miss her deeply and also am worried for her.

It feels off to be missing a connection with a woman who:

- abruptly dumped me

- painted me black

- erased me from her life like I never occured

- and who is clearly unhealthy for me

I cant tell if I am just a deeply caring, loving guy or a fool!  Maybe both!

[rotiroti]

Hello again,

Just a quick update following my first meeting with my therapist.  Kudos to all of you for calling it, she agreed with a lot of the sentiment here... .Including the presence of BPD tendencies... .All she can really confirm third hand.  Aaaaand that I have a ton of work to do on boundaries... .But thats not really a surprise.

I don't entertain visions of recycling, but I still miss her deeply and also am worried for her.

It feels off to be missing a connection with a woman who:

- abruptly dumped me

- painted me black

- erased me from her life like I never occured

- and who is clearly unhealthy for me

I cant tell if I am just a deeply caring, loving guy or a fool!  Maybe both!

Just human.



Great job for meeting with a T! It sounds like he or she is very good... .

BPD or not, missing connections with those red flags would be a deal breaker for many! Myself including... .