Needing to hear the word 'sorry'

[balletomane]

One of the hardest things about my relationship was that my ex never said sorry for anything. Ever. The most he would do was attribute blame to the situation ("That was a difficult time for both of us", try to pass off his behaviour as normal ("That was just a normal relationship problem", or, in the best case scenario, blame his mental health while still not acknowledging that his behaviour had been hurtful ("I was irrational". He often would not even remember hurtful things he'd done. I would be in tears over them and he would look at me and say, "I don't remember that." At the end, when he replaced me, he decided that I had fabricated those things or taken them out of context just to make him apologise to me for some sinister motive of my own. ("Have you been manipulating me this whole time?" Then he said something that took my breath away: "YOU hurt ME countless times and you never apologised even once, and certainly not multiple times like I did."

I was always apologising, begging to be forgiven, trying so hard to please him. He used to have this horrible twisted guessing game: he wanted me to explain what I'd done wrong before he would accept my apology, and if I couldn't do this to his satisfaction, he would decide my apology was not genuine and I was manipulating him. I accepted all blame. When we broke up he said, "This is all your fault," and I agreed. I know I shouldn't have said it, because I knew even at the time that it wasn't true, but I was desperate to make him stop hurting me. I still couldn't believe he had flipped from a loving partner to someone who spoke to me with such bile and hatred literally in the space of five minutes. I wanted to placate him. So I said sorry over and over again, not just for things I did, but for things I didn't do and things he only imagined I did, for thoughts I'd never thought in my life but that he kept accusing me of thinking.

I think this is one of the major things stopping me from moving on. If he only felt some remorse for doing this and compassion for me, it would be easier - it would give me closure and let me progress with my life. Facing the knowledge that all the time we were together he lived in some parallel universe where black was white and up was down is also hard, as it makes me question if any of it was real. I don't know how to get past this.

[fft524]

You know, you bring up a very good point. I stayed with my ex until she abandoned me. I stayed with her when every instinct I had was screaming RUN! ... .But I stayed because I love her, and because I care about her. I'm just beginning to accept the very real possibility that my childhood wasn't as ok as I remember, and that there is a very real possibility that I have underlying codependency issues.

... .But I digress. My ex and I worked through a LOT together, and were making good progress (or so I thought until she abandoned me). Through all of that, she never once accepted responsibility for the things that she said and did that hurt me. The words "I'm sorry" never crossed her lips in regard to any of the major issues in our relationship (the vast majority (but not all) of which were caused by her behavior). She would apologize for accidentally knocking over a glass or any of those small day to day things, but she never seemed to grasp the concept of her words or actions (or lack thereof) hurting me. Aside from when she abandoned me, that lack of empathy hurt me the most. It felt like she simply didn't care. Like you, I apologized when I was wrong, and sometimes when I wasn't, but nothing ever changed.

[chill1986]

The only time my ex would ever apologise was if I hit the roof and snapped back at her, which because I'm a rational nice person wasn't often at all.

Ever since the break up and before she has been horrible and kicking up fuss over the littleist things. I had to make all the changes, moving out, finding a new place, losing lots of money etc and never said anything, just tried to make it easier on her. Yesterday I finally snapped, she told me to get a post divert as it was tedious forwarding 3 letters a month. I told her what tedious was, ie what she had done to me. I got the first apology in 6 months.

They can't see what they have done to us is wrong, in their eyes their actions are justified. Don't wait for an apology, I didn't, I was surprised when it came and I'm sure it will be short lived. She will go back to hating me pretty soon.

[NonBPHusb]

I feel you!  Everything in this thread is exactly what I have experienced.  I feel like I apologize constantly for everything under the sun.  Every apology is followed by remedial education from my uBPD(likely-soon-to-be)exW about every little detail about what I had done wrong.  I never receive an apology for anything material unless my wife is completely broken down.  I get plenty of non-apologies along the lines of answers to the interview question: "what is your greatest fault?"  My wife even blamed me for being hurt by her affair?

In my case, I think its because my wife's self-esteem is so low that any apology--any admission of flawed behavior--is essentially committing emotional suicide for her.  It's all in the same class as the fact that any time I put my foot down or do anything other than go along with exactly what she has decided to we must do, then I'm being controlling or manipulative.

Haven't posted much on this particular forum yet.  Suspect I will be more now.

[Overbeck]

My ex used sorry and crying as a means to play on my sympathy. The words "I love you" were another tool in her arsenal of manipulation.

Words are weapons to Borderlines. If you ever hear those words, they are being used to gain control over you.

[greenmonkey]

The word sorry did not exist in her vocabulary ever.

She did not feel the need to apologise for her behaviour, the hurt she caused nothing.

Saying sorry and owning up to your weaknesses is all part of maturity and growing up - something she was never told to do, just like taking responsibility for her actions. A child in an adult body.

Oddly enough she tried so hard to get her son to apologise for bad behaviour but she could never utter that word.

As said before it was all about control, nothing else.

I did not believe a word that came out of her mouth, she was a pathological liar, manipulator etc and even if she ever had any remorse for any actions I would not have been any wiser as she lied so often over so long I would not have believed her anyway.

[seang]

My ex used sorry and crying as a means to play on my sympathy. The words "I love you" were another tool in her arsenal of manipulation.

Words are weapons to Borderlines. If you ever hear those words, they are being used to gain control over you.

Fukin A!  I had 2 sorrys in 16 months.  Both followed on from a push/pull episode to gain re-entry.  2!  fukin 2!  she caused ___ a lot more than twice!

[Michelle27]

Apologies only came under 2 situations in my case. One, as manipulation because he knew I wanted or needed an apology.  The 2nd situation was when it was clear I was wavering on the edge of leaving, when I told him I was 99% out the door.  Apologies were intended to make me forgive him and move forward without all the baggage of a decade of abuse.  I tried, but just couldn't get past it.

[HappyNihilist]

It's painful and confusing when your partner never seems to express remorse or accept responsibility. Especially when it's for something they did or said that was hurtful to you.

Apologizing to others, admitting fault, accepting responsibility - these aren't always easy for anyone. Much less for people with BPD, who often have deeply ingrained self-loathing and therefore tend to project blame onto others. It's a blow to the ego to be wrong - it's painful to realize you've hurt someone you care about - it's embarrassing to make a mistake. In someone with BPD, these negative feelings are often amplified, and can set off overwhelming emotions. They often deal with these by projecting blame, or splitting, or various other unhealthy coping mechanisms.

But just because someone can't express remorse and compassion doesn't mean that they are incapable of feeling it.

I was always apologising, begging to be forgiven, trying so hard to please him. He used to have this horrible twisted guessing game: he wanted me to explain what I'd done wrong before he would accept my apology, and if I couldn't do this to his satisfaction, he would decide my apology was not genuine and I was manipulating him. I accepted all blame.

Yikes! balletomane, that is a twisted 'game.' It must have been so stressful and confusing.   I'm so sorry.

I was always apologizing, begging forgiveness, and trying with all my might to please my exbf, as well. He did a similar but less cruel guessing game with me about what I'd done wrong, too. I was forever asking, "What did I do wrong this time?" It absolutely drained me.

It's hard to process through the fallout of these relationships. But they can teach us a lot about ourselves.

What made you so willing to accept all blame in the relationship? Did you start out the relationship that way?

I think this is one of the major things stopping me from moving on. If he only felt some remorse for doing this and compassion for me, it would be easier - it would give me closure and let me progress with my life.

Most of the time with disordered relationships, we have to find our own closure. It's hard, I know. 

Why do you think that him feeling remorse for the breakup and compassion for you would give you closure?

What does it mean for you if he is sorry about what he did? What does it mean for you if he isn't?

He may never be able to express compassion towards you (regardless of whether he feels it), but you can show it yourself. Hang in there, you're doing great. 

[JohnnyShoes]

I had the same problem with my parent... .AND my uexBPDgf... .I don't get it. It's like a part of their brain doesn't work.

I wish that piece of themselves (in their brain) Worked... .and that piece or part of their brain lets them SEE what they did... .and REMEMBER IT... .and That it was Wrong... .

and the ability to Think and FEEL how it affected US.

And *because* they have feelings for us, would make them say... genuinely:

I'm sorry. I know that hurt you. I don't want to hurt you. I realized I did by (whatever they did or didnt do) and I'm truly Sorry

[JohnnyShoes]

p.s. ... .unfortunately, I don't think that will ever happen. I've waited for a parent to say that for over 40 years.

Now it becomes, what do I do with it... .

I'm not fussing with this crp anymore... .I just can't let that person have anymore opportunity to give me MORE bruises, hurts and scars... .I just cant

[AlonelyOne]

I think this is typical of BPD.  I think in our nearly decade of a relationship, I could count on my fingers how often she apologized.

She also never forgave. Every failing was held onto... .while anything wrong she did was excusable for some nuanced reason.

It was hellish. And we stayed, because we loved them, and we loved our children.

[balletomane]

Yikes! balletomane, that is a twisted 'game.' It must have been so stressful and confusing.   I'm so sorry.

I was always apologizing, begging forgiveness, and trying with all my might to please my exbf, as well. He did a similar but less cruel guessing game with me about what I'd done wrong, too. I was forever asking, "What did I do wrong this time?" It absolutely drained me.

It's hard to process through the fallout of these relationships. But they can teach us a lot about ourselves.

What made you so willing to accept all blame in the relationship? Did you start out the relationship that way?

In answer to your question, yes and no. I'm quite a patient person and I'm a big believer in giving people second chances and the benefit of the doubt. His behaviour didn't start out terribly - at first it was little things that I was excusing, small things that I was apologising for. But over time it snowballed and I ended up apologising more and more over increasingly bizarre and unfair accusations. By this point I was in it deep. I loved him. Had he started this way from the beginning I might have been more clear-sighted. In fact, had you told the previous me that I would tolerate and even collude in my own abuse like that I probably wouldn't have believed you.

The irony of this is that my BPD ex used to get very angry over the way I would make allowances for others. One day a friend cancelled on me at short notice, and while I was a bit annoyed to have my plans changed without warning and disappointed not to see her, I didn't think it was the end of the world - we'd only been meeting for coffee and that could easily be rearranged. My ex got irrationally furious at me over it and said that in future I should refuse to have anything to do with this friend, that I should stop talking to her, that I shouldn't even respond to her texts, that "people only treat you this way because you let them." I knew this was a massive overreaction and I could see the irony in it even then (he not only wanted me to make allowances for him, he wanted me to sincerely believe that he never did anything wrong, yet he expected me to PNG this woman over a cancelled coffee meeting!). I still wound up agreeing with him and trying to placate him. After that I didn't tell him about plans to meet this friend in case he erupted again. That day I remember thinking that he never spoke a truer word, and he didn't know it - he was treating me badly because I was letting him. But I couldn't break out of the pattern. In a sad way I'm grateful for my replacement; if she hadn't come along I might still be stuck.

Most of the time with disordered relationships, we have to find our own closure. It's hard, I know. 

Why do you think that him feeling remorse for the breakup and compassion for you would give you closure?

What does it mean for you if he is sorry about what he did? What does it mean for you if he isn't?

He may never be able to express compassion towards you (regardless of whether he feels it), but you can show it yourself. Hang in there, you're doing great. 

Thank you. 

If he felt sorry, it would signal to me that I had meant something to him. Right now I worry that I was just a toy. I think it would be easier to recover from the knowledge that I was a loved one whom his illness caused him to abuse rather than an object he never particularly cared about and that got thrown out when he'd had enough.

[SGraham]

My ex had really low self esteem so she actually apologised a lot. She usually did what ever it was again anyway thou.

[HappyNihilist]

I'm quite a patient person and I'm a big believer in giving people second chances and the benefit of the doubt. His behaviour didn't start out terribly - at first it was little things that I was excusing, small things that I was apologising for. But over time it snowballed and I ended up apologising more and more over increasingly bizarre and unfair accusations. By this point I was in it deep. I loved him. Had he started this way from the beginning I might have been more clear-sighted. In fact, had you told the previous me that I would tolerate and even collude in my own abuse like that I probably wouldn't have believed you.

 I understand. This description is almost word-for-word how I would describe myself and my relationship with my exBPDbf - it's almost scary. I just want to hug you and tell you it will be ok. Because it will be. It won't be easy, and it will hurt, but it will be worth it. Your beautiful self is underneath all the debris, just waiting to be uncovered.

You don't have to change who you are - the patient person who forgives easily, who believes in the inherent good of people. Those are wonderful values to have. The dysfunction arises when we have unaddressed core wounds that make those values vulnerable to exploitation.

Recovery comes once we process through ourselves, address and heal our core wounds, and understand fully the role we played in the dysfunction and abuse. And it's important to do this without judgment of ourselves. Turn that patience, forgiveness, and compassion full-blast on yourself.

That day I remember thinking that he never spoke a truer word, and he didn't know it - he was treating me badly because I was letting him. But I couldn't break out of the pattern. In a sad way I'm grateful for my replacement; if she hadn't come along I might still be stuck.

You show good insight into your feelings and your behavior. You recognize the pattern you couldn't break out of. Now you can step back and look at the pattern from a different perspective.

Is this a pattern that you can see throughout your life? If so, where might it have come from?

We gravitate towards relationships that feel 'right' in some way, not necessarily because they're healthy, but because they're familiar. And when we find someone whose dysfunction matches up perfectly with our own dysfunction, we call that person our 'soulmate' or our 'destiny' - not realizing that they just feel that way because those patterns are so deeply ingrained in us.

You're a compassionate and loving person who forgives easily. It's ok to still be stuck. I was still stuck for quite a while.  Just give yourself time and have faith in the healing process. You'll get there.

Have you looked at this article yet? I personally found it helpful while I was processing my relationship - The Mystery of Loving an Abuser

If he felt sorry, it would signal to me that I had meant something to him. Right now I worry that I was just a toy. I think it would be easier to recover from the knowledge that I was a loved one whom his illness caused him to abuse rather than an object he never particularly cared about and that got thrown out when he'd had enough.

It's so painful and degrading to feel that way. 

The reality is that you did mean something to him, or else he wouldn't have had a relationship with you. People with BPD are just people, after all, even though their disorder causes them to perceive the world and react to it in some different ways. They're human beings who feel love. There can be love in abusive relationships. There was love in mine.

I hope this helps you in some way. You really are doing good work. 

[Pretty Woman]

Mine said sorry once... .only after I mentioned I never heard her EVER say it in three years.

They don't ever think they did something wrong so why apologize?

Friend, I AM Sorry you are going through this. You sound like a nice person and clearly you didn't deserve this treatment. Hugs to you! 

PW

[Gonzalo]

My ex- would demand that I apologize for all kinds of stuff, and I kept doing it until the end. If I raised my voice while she was shouting at me, apology demand. If she made a big deal about toweling up some water spilled on the carpet and I didn't really care since it would just dry in an hour, apology demand. I accidentally opened an envelope that was hers, apology demand. If she didn't hear me say I love you in the morning, apology demand. If she asked me stuff before I was fully awake and I got grumpy, apology demand.

Meanwhile she would never apologize for any of the big stuff. Occasionally she would apologize for some specific thing that I called her out on, but it was rare and very narrow. She would definitely not do healthy mutual apologies, she had no problem shouting that I should apologize for shouting. The lack of any remorse or gratitude was an immense problem that kept growing in the relationship.

One of the things that made it hard to leave in the end was that I really wanted to hear her say that she appreciated (or even acknowledged) all that I did for her and that she was sorry for the wild mistreatment. One of the things that made it easy to stick to leaving was the fact that I had done so many BS apologies and she clearly wasn't capable of giving me any real ones. I remember her sitting there, confused about the breakup that she initiated, apparently wanting it to not happen, but instead of doing anything to try to reconcile she just went off about the accidentally opened envelope.

[hergestridge]

All this is familiar. 20 years. Never said she was sorry. Always felt others should apologize (including our daughter - when she was two!). Also, she told me other people owed me an apology, that I was being used and too forgiving. With her she said I was too sensetive and accused of holding grudges.

The double standards wore me down and ___ed with my concepts.

[balletomane]

You don't have to change who you are - the patient person who forgives easily, who believes in the inherent good of people. Those are wonderful values to have. The dysfunction arises when we have unaddressed core wounds that make those values vulnerable to exploitation.

Recovery comes once we process through ourselves, address and heal our core wounds, and understand fully the role we played in the dysfunction and abuse. And it's important to do this without judgment of ourselves. Turn that patience, forgiveness, and compassion full-blast on yourself.

You show good insight into your feelings and your behavior. You recognize the pattern you couldn't break out of. Now you can step back and look at the pattern from a different perspective.

Is this a pattern that you can see throughout your life? If so, where might it have come from?

My previous romantic relationship wasn't like this. Before my BPD ex I was with someone for three and a half years. He was a very level-headed, logical sort of person, had a sense of humour that I really appreciated, and we're still on good terms now. We broke up because I didn't feel ready to settle down and start a family and I wasn't sure I would ever want to be a parent, whereas he definitely does. It was a bit painful for both of us but we stayed amicable with each other and we continue as friends. There were sometimes arguments, but only the arguments that any couple might have - no nasty fights, no manipulation, no silent treatment. This is why my BPD ex came as such a shock to the system.

I have had friendships that followed an unhealthier pattern. I learned to put up with a lot as a child because I am disabled and I was bullied frequently over my problems. In the end my parents got me into a boarding school where bullying wasn't tolerated. But even here some of the students would act like they were doing me a favour by being my friend. My roommates would tell me that sometimes other students made fun of my problems behind my back and that they always defended me. Sometimes they would accuse me of not being sufficiently grateful. Part of me didn't see why I should act grateful just because they were trying to make other people follow a basic standard of decency - I noticed that they didn't expect this wild and constant gratitude from each other, only from me - but like most children I didn't want to be excluded from the group, so I thought it was best just to do as they wanted. They also used to blame their own behaviour on my difficulties sometimes: if the room was messy when the teacher came to inspect it, they said it was because I was too slow at cleaning up. I think being treated like this by so many people over the years has made me more likely to believe that I must be doing something wrong when I'm not, and to keep quiet even when I know for sure that things are not my fault. Finally, like many people here, I am a rescuer and a fixer. (Interestingly, so is my replacement: one of the last things she said to me was, "I like to fix what's broken." I need to build up my self-belief and learn that being treated kindly isn't some almighty favour that I'm unworthy of, but just a normal way to behave to another person. I know this in theory but it is sometimes difficult to apply the knowledge to myself.

[HappyNihilist]

I learned to put up with a lot as a child because I am disabled and I was bullied frequently over my problems. In the end my parents got me into a boarding school where bullying wasn't tolerated. But even here some of the students would act like they were doing me a favour by being my friend. My roommates would tell me that sometimes other students made fun of my problems behind my back and that they always defended me. Sometimes they would accuse me of not being sufficiently grateful. Part of me didn't see why I should act grateful just because they were trying to make other people follow a basic standard of decency - I noticed that they didn't expect this wild and constant gratitude from each other, only from me - but like most children I didn't want to be excluded from the group, so I thought it was best just to do as they wanted. They also used to blame their own behaviour on my difficulties sometimes: if the room was messy when the teacher came to inspect it, they said it was because I was too slow at cleaning up. I think being treated like this by so many people over the years has made me more likely to believe that I must be doing something wrong when I'm not, and to keep quiet even when I know for sure that things are not my fault. Finally, like many people here, I am a rescuer and a fixer. (Interestingly, so is my replacement: one of the last things she said to me was, "I like to fix what's broken." I need to build up my self-belief and learn that being treated kindly isn't some almighty favour that I'm unworthy of, but just a normal way to behave to another person. I know this in theory but it is sometimes difficult to apply the knowledge to myself.

 I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Peer abuse or rejection is incredibly traumatizing as a child.

From our earliest cognitive phases, we are observing and hearing all sorts of messages - intentional or not, directly or indirectly. As children, we are learning how the world works. We don't know how to really question those messages until we're older, we simply lack the cognitive skills. You saw people including other people into their group without expecting gratitude - you heard supporting messages that told you this treatment is basic human decency. You saw that you were not afforded the same decency, and you heard supporting messages that told you only 'bad' or 'wrong' people got treated that way.

The reality - which you're able to understand now, as an adult - is that your bullies' and peers' behavior had much more to do with them than it did with you. That it never meant that you were somehow unworthy of decency, but that they were unable to give it.

What was it about your ex that intensified this pattern for you, to the point that you would collude in your abuse? Looking back, does his behavior remind you of another person (or people) in your past? Was he more like the bullies, or more like the 'be grateful we include you' boarding school kids?

balletomane, whenever you feel like you might be ready to start posting some on the [L6] Personal Inventory and Self-awareness boards, I think this would be the perfect place to start. That whole block quote right there. You show great insight and understanding, and you're beginning to explore the story behind the patterns. You're looking at what has made you, 'You'.

[fft524]

Johnny, I've been there. It makes rational sense to us.

But... .

Try explaining a color to a blind child that has never seen anything.

That's what it's like to try to explain your viewpoint, your feelings, and your needs to a pwBPD, in my experience.

It's not that they aren't capable of understanding, but so much growth has to occur before they can look outside of themselves objectively... .

I gave mine so much of me, and showed her more patience, love, and understanding than I even knew I had. I always believed that if I showed her how it felt to be loved, safe, and supported, she would come to understand.

It worked, for a while, until her maladaptive defenses kicked in, her guilt and shame overtook her, and her maladaptive coping mechanisms kicked in.

When that happened, there was no turning back.

[enlighten me]

Funny thing with sorry and my uBPD exgf. Like most she never said it but one day I heard her telling her son (when she knew I was in earshot) "the bigger person will say sorry even when they know they didn't so anything wrong".

It seemed a strange thing to say to a seven year old and felt directed straight at me.

Ive often thought about this and I think she knew she was wrong a lot but just wanted me to let her off the hook.

[balletomane]

I need to bump this thread, as lately I've had a few dreams about my replacement. Always the same dream. Either she asks to talk to me, or we meet accidentally, and I tell her the truth about what happened. Sometimes I wake up before she reacts, but mostly she reacts by becoming very upset and showing sympathy/compassion for me.

I don't think she knows the truth about what went on: my ex told her that we had been completely platonic for a year when we were still romantically and sexually involved and had been all along. We were also emotionally close - he was telling me I was the most precious person in his life just a couple of weeks before he got together with her. I have a feeling she would not have been so keen to enter a relationship with him if she knew that he had gone from me to her practically overnight. She's always struck me as a kind person and a thoughtful person, and I doubt this would match up with her ethics.

I have realised that this desire to tell her and see her react with compassion is an extension of my wish that my ex would apologise. I know I'm more likely to get snow in the Sahara than an apology from him, so when I'm sleeping my subconscious brings up my replacement - someone who probably would respond with compassion if she knew. Probably. I can't be 100% sure she doesn't know, and just as I explained away the warning signs and the bad behaviour, she may be excusing them too. Or she may legitimately see what he did as OK. But I have a hope that she would understand me and feel sorry.

I think it is because receiving compassion from people outside the situation doesn't feel like enough. I want acknowledgment of my hurt from someone who was directly involved. That would make me feel as though I'm real and I matter, as opposed to trash that got thrown from a car window while others drove on. Part of me has even wondered about writing to her (but another part screams NO!, because she would only show him, and it would get nasty).

I need to break away from this need to hear 'sorry'. I just can't see how. No matter what I try, whenever I feel as though I'm advancing, something happens to pull me back into the pain. It's only been six months. I suppose I shouldn't expect too much in what is a relatively short space of time, but I wish I could do more to help myself.

[AmMovingForward]

Increase your self worth and you won't attract these toxic men anymore.  Know that you are worth more than this guy and others like him. You deserve someone that will treat you like a Queen.  I'm sure you have many great talents, but in the process of trying to keep the relationship together, you neglected yourself.  That's where you need to look to. Yourself. Forgive yourself and tell yourself sorry. Sorry that you ever allowed yourself to be treated with such indignation. Once you realize what a wonderful person you are, you will be on the right path.

Looking back is never healthy,  no matter what closure you think it would provide. Fill yourself with love, know that you are worth more than crumbs, and look within for your answers.  Not external validation. The mirroring that's ceased. You don't need a mirror. The mirror is actually yourself. 

[zundertowz]

Increase your self worth and you won't attract these toxic men anymore.  Know that you are worth more than this guy and others like him. You deserve someone that will treat you like a Queen.  I'm sure you have many great talents, but in the process of trying to keep the relationship together, you neglected yourself.  That's where you need to look to. Yourself. Forgive yourself and tell yourself sorry. Sorry that you ever allowed yourself to be treated with such indignation. Once you realize what a wonderful person you are, you will be on the right path.

Looking back is never healthy,  no matter what closure you think it would provide. Fill yourself with love, know that you are worth more than crumbs, and look within for your answers.  Not external validation. The mirroring that's ceased. You don't need a mirror. The mirror is actually yourself. 

I'm not sure it's appropriate for someone with BPD to be on this board and giving advice to people, I think the moderators can point you in the right direction for support for people who suffer from BPD.

[C.Stein]

I'm not sure it's appropriate for someone with BPD to be on this board and giving advice to people, I think the moderators can point you in the right direction for support for people who suffer from BPD.

I don't agree at all.  I welcome the opinions and insights of those that suffer with BPD.  It helps me gain understanding into their struggles as well as my own.

[zundertowz]

I'm not sure it's appropriate for someone with BPD to be on this board and giving advice to people, I think the moderators can point you in the right direction for support for people who suffer from BPD.

I don't agree at all.  I welcome the opinions and insights of those that suffer with BPD.  It helps me gain understanding into their struggles as well as my own.

I don't think it's an opinion I believe it's the board rules

[ArleighBurke]

I'm not sure about the board rules, but I value opinions from BPDs.

It is so difficult to understand what they feel, how they view the world, what we can do to help - to have someone capable and willing enough to look inside themselves and tell us what it feels like is invaluable.

Perhaps there needs to be more transparency, but if they are positively contributing - please keep them welcome.

[Freeatlast_1]

Balettomane

I had to do the same. I used to say sorry just to stop her from attacking, punching, yelling. I had to turn the Monster off and it took a lot of self disrespect and humiliation to bring her back to normal. That is what hurt me THE MOST in the relationship... .that is what gave me PTSD... .My ex did not cheat and when she was 'normal' she was fantastic, she literally would revolve her schedule around mine, as mine is strict. But when monster mode strikes, due to some trigger, she turned into a beast. So when I think of me saying sorry for no reason but just to shut her up, I feel so sad and hurt, in fact that's one thing that's preventing me from texting her 1 month after NC. Maybe hitting rock bottom was a good thing, otherwise I would've kept recycling. Strange enough I was brought up in a family with lots of love for me, lots of support and a normal dynamic, I worked my way to a very successful making 6 figures, everyone viewed me as secure and confident, and that's what she said attracted her to me. To MY surprise, and I don't know why, I was weak with her. I questioned my self esteem but I doubt that was it. I still don't know what made me loose my dignity for that woman.

[hergestridge]

Funny thing with sorry and my uBPD exgf. Like most she never said it but one day I heard her telling her son (when she knew I was in earshot) "the bigger person will say sorry even when they know they didn't so anything wrong".

It seemed a strange thing to say to a seven year old and felt directed straight at me.

Ive often thought about this and I think she knew she was wrong a lot but just wanted me to let her off the hook.

That is such a perfect illustration of how a pwBPD views apologies. It's not about who was wrong and who was right. It's an instrument of power and something to used in negotiation. This sickens and saddens me so much. I spent so many years hitting my head against this brick wall, not understanding how irrelevant right and wrong was to my ex wife.