MC soft on physical abuse issue...

[Ceruleanblue]

This week in MC, I gathered up my courage, and actually addressed the most recent physical incident. I also told our MC that BPDh has a long history of being physical with people, and that he justifies it, and blames me. BPDh quickly showed in session that he does justify it.

I feel our MC totally bought into the whole "she triggers me" crap that BPDh was spouting. He's started saying this recently after some of his DBT classes where I know he goes and badmouths me. He tells lies constantly, so I know he's likely lying there too, and telling half truths to make himself look better. This, to me, is just pure evil.

I obviously know some of his triggers, and try to avoid them, but MOST of the time, he gets triggered by his false reality, or things he twists that I've said. He'll twist it 180 degrees until it no longer even resembles what I said. This is WAY more than misinterpretation, it's deliberate. He wants to feel badly, and negatively towards me, and I can't change that, only BPDh can.

I guess I feel the worst that even our MC didn't take a hard enough line that BPDh shouldn't justify the physical abuse, and really address with BPDh that it needs to stop. He didn't look BPDh in the eye and tell him that no matter what he "think" I'm doing, or have done, that physical abuse is WRONG. Nope, he kept addressing ME the entire time as if I could change this dynamic. I feel like the rape victim that is being blamed for the length of her skirt. This is so unfair!

I don't feel like a victim, BPDh is way too comfortable in that role(ironic, huh?), but I sure am wondering about not going to MC anymore after this. There just seems to be a strong gender bias coming from our MC, which is weird because he's obviously a smart man. It's not the first time I've noticed this. And he's given enough examples from his own life(good ones concerning how he shows wife respect), yet he says it's different in our situation?

Thoughts? I'm dreading next week of MC already. I should have come away with some help, but instead I feel BPDh got more reassurance that the physical abuse is partially my fault.  

[GaGrl]

How comfortable are you in going to the session next week and bringing up this issue to your MC, i.e., "I did not feel that this concern was resolved last week.  I felt that you, MC, minimized the physical incident, and I left feeling that the responsibility lay with me to avoid triggering husband (which I can not avoid) with no responsiblity on husband's part to control himself.  This is not acceptable, and we need to re-visit my need to feel safe in this marriage."

[Ceruleanblue]

Wow, I'd love to say that, but I get the feeling that our MC is not fully grasping that my husband has BPD/NPD or perhaps even APD. I'm not saying I always am perfect, but I'm really working on cleaning up my side of the street, and not triggering him. I sometimes slip up, but I shouldn't have to pay such a high price. No one can live in such pressure and never stand up for themselves or have reactions themselves. I don't feel I'm ever allowed simple emotions even, because I have to be spot on, for fear of triggering him.

My individual T has told me I need to be more assertive with our MC when I feel he's clearly wrong, or I feel I'm not being understood.

I just feel that our MC was just so into lecturing me, while BPDh zoned out, half asleep, that any further addressing it will just go the same way. I'm not willing to take half the blame on THIS issue, like it was clear he was wanting me to. Physical abuse is NOT an issue where you can split responsibility down the middle. Plus, I feel abusers usually lack the reasoning to really do so. I'm not going to agree that this happens because I trigger him!

Plus, I'm really offended by how BPDh wants to play victim, and I've never physically hurt him, and never would. This is the fist physically abusive relationship I've ever been in, and I've done way too much excusing it due to his mental issue.

I'll have to try to wrap my head around actually saying that in MC, because I didn't get anywhere last session with MC. He just kept saying neither of us should abuse each other. How does that help? BPDh sat there justifying, and instead of him being addressed, I was. The whole thing just felt unfair.

[sweetheart]

CB it is really important that you don't bring up the subject of physical abuse anywhere with your h, it automatically places you in a persecutory role with your h easily assuming a victim stance and attributing fault with you. From what you have said about your h he is someone who blames others and is very unlikely to accept responsibility for his actions.

What are the boundaries you plan to put in place?

MC is not a place that is used to resolve issues around domestic violence. The reason for this is also the reason why MC is not recommended for high conflict couples, and it is because it creates triggers which can lead to further episodes of violence.

The person that has to take the hard and fast line against abuse is you. The place to deal with how you feel and boundary enforcement around physical violence is within the safety of your own therapy.

Be careful CB, be safe.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, BPDh's reaction was expected. What wasn't was MC's reaction to it. I'm sure if we'd had the same discussion with someone who deals with domestic abuse, it wouldn't have been made light of.

And yes, he does blame others for things, with the exception of his kids(which is weird because no one's kids are perfect), and he'll take their part no matter how heinous their actions are. So I see what you are saying because he is unlikely to take any responsibility, yet he sure did want ME to take responsibility for his physical assaults on me. Not happening.

I do have a plan or sorts, and I do now have boundaries worked out in my head in regards to the physical abuse. It's not like it's happening often, but there has been quite a few incidences over the four years, and I need to set boundaries, so he doesn't just think I am okay with it!

I've sort of lost respect for our MC, and I'm not even sure I want to go anymore. To me, any man who doesn't feel strongly about a man abusing a woman, isn't someone I really want advice from.

I am getting a lot out of my own personal therapy. In fact, I have therapy today.

[sweetheart]

CB have a look through this link, it won't all be relevant, but it talks about why MC doesn't work for couples where there is physical violence and why the therapist would not apportion blame, because it is about looking at the relationship not the individual behaviour... .

www.abusesanctuary.blogspot.co.uk/2006/11/couples-counseling-marriage-counseling.html

[Ceruleanblue]

That was a great link, and it helped to read that some of the things listed are things I've been telling myself. Like, how his choice to become abusive is HIS issue, not mine. He's blaming "triggers", but that is just more blame aimed at me.

My personal therapist and I talked yesterday about possibly discontinuing marriage therapy. She said when she does couples therapy, she stated how she does it, and I felt she had a much better take on couples therapy than our current therapist does. I still think that ANY couples therapy, even if we did see MY therapist(who teaches better communication, and lets the couples learn to communicate in a therapeutic environment), would just not do any good right now. He's not willing to take any responsibility for abusing me, so it would be useless, and like that website stated, it's HIS issue, not mine.

You know, I really debated even doing couples therapy, just because I knew it was highly unlikely that BPDh would do any of the work, and it would become another big blame fest. We had a therapy session with his daughter(at HER request), and it was seriously one of the worst hours of my life. I should NEVER have done it. She ripped me up one side, and down the other, was condescending and hateful, and I agreed to her "boundaries" that really weren't boundaries at all, just for the sake of peace. Did it accomplish that? HECK NO! She then refused to meet for the second therapy session where she'd stated she knew we'd want the chance to talk(she cited that of course she was adult enough to do this... .I think she already knew she wasn't going to, and was covering her butt), and what's funny is BPDh and I only really wanted to say in that session that we wanted the past put in the past, but that I'd never be treated again like I was in that "therapy" session. I think the "therapist" should have called a halt to it.

My point is, therapy DOES NOT help someone who just wants to be angry and blame others, and that is what BPDH, and his kids all do. I own up to things I do wrong, and I apologize, and learn from them. They refuse to do so, and would rather hold grudges, and play victim, and blame others. I can't change that, and I'm getting sick of participating, especially in a setting(ie; marriage therapy) that is supposed to help us, not hurt us.

So glad you gave me that link 

[HappyNihilist]

Ceruleanblue, I'm sorry - that MC session sounds so invalidating. 

It's very difficult for couples therapists to deal with DV issues. That therapist may have even done you an unintentional favor - not upsetting your husband's victim applecart. I would advise against bringing your husband into your personal therapist's world. You need that safe, comfortable place.

MC is not a place that is used to resolve issues around domestic violence. The reason for this is also the reason why MC is not recommended for high conflict couples, and it is because it creates triggers which can lead to further episodes of violence.

The person that has to take the hard and fast line against abuse is you. The place to deal with how you feel and boundary enforcement around physical violence is within the safety of your own therapy.

Be careful CB, be safe.

I'm so glad sweetheart's information and link helped you, CB. This is an extremely important point.

how his choice to become abusive is HIS issue, not mine.

You are absolutely right, the choice to become abusive is his issue. You are not responsible for his choices, and you are not to blame for his actions.

But if you are considering staying with him, then you have to accept that he has this issue, and learn to navigate through these waters.

If you want to stay - even for the short term - and you want the physical abuse to stop, then you have to work on developing and enforcing boundaries around this issue. Like sweetheart said, the best and safest place for this is with your personal therapist.

You're doing so well. Keep taking care of yourself. 

[formflier]

 

My understanding is that the role of a MC is to facilitate communication and treat the r/s.

Not to act as a judge or "be hard on people"... .or "easy on people" for that matter.

I think bringing this up in next MC to clarify roles and expectations is appropriate.

I have in sessions where a MC clearly said "it feels like I am being asked to make a judgement.  That is not my role."

That also means they are not making a judgement that the behavior is OK either.

Hope this helps.

FF

[sweetheart]

The point ff raises about the role of the MC is an important one. It also highlights again the reasons why MC is contraindicated for couples where there is DV present. MC can work where there is a history of DV, but it is generally accepted, certainly here in the UK that if violence is active then couples work isn't offered.

The most likely reason the MC T did not say anything about your h's violence is that he will be aware that this puts you in a position of increased risk. And like ff says the role of MC is like that of a facilitator. I understand though why this must have been very disheartening and throws up questions about whether this can continue to be a good enough therapeutic space for you.

CB. I'm interested did the MC do a full assessment and history taking session with you both before starting ?

[Ceruleanblue]

And THIS is why I want out of MC. I feel our therapist does pass judgement on ME, when BPDh complains about me triggering him, and this therapist has no problem focusing on ME, or whatever it is that BPDh is upset about, but phsycial abuse is glossed over.

I know it's not about passing judgement, on the therapists part, but it clearly is still happening, but it's almost like he's afraid to confront BPDh about anything he does. It's not about passing judgement, it's about working on issues we have, and physical violence has been one of them.

I just don't get why the focus is always on ME, and I'm definitely not okay with that. Therapists aren't supposed to "take sides", but I feel as if, for some reason I'm the sole focus, and that's clearly just not fair, when I'm already doing all I can to lessen the drama.

Everyone here advised that MC might be a bad deal when dealing with a PD(and certainly this goes for domestic violence too), and I knew that going in, but felt it was worth a try. Now, I'm really seeing that MC just isn't somewhere most couples dealing with a PD should go to. At least not until the person with the PD, has it under a lot better control, and is wiling to take ownership in their issues in the marriage too... .

Sweetheart: This therapist had us take personality tests, but I never revealed until just recently that physical assaults had been an ongoing issue... .

[formflier]

And THIS is why I want out of MC. I feel our therapist does pass judgement on ME, when BPDh complains about me triggering him, and this therapist has no problem focusing on ME, or whatever it is that BPDh is upset about, but phsycial abuse is glossed over.

This is something to be brought up at MC.  Let the MC address his (I believe it is a male... correct?) vision for treatment and he may offer adjustments.  He can't work on problems he doesn't know exist. 

It is a big deal that MC not take sides.  If you feel this is happening, MC needs to know

Sweetheart: This therapist had us take personality tests, but I never revealed until just recently that physical assaults had been an ongoing issue... .

MC can't act on or devise a treatment plan for what they don't know.  They only know what they are told and are very used to getting two very different stories.

I'm curious how you decided to not reveal this at the start and how you picked the timing to reveal this.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I revealed the physical abuse because of the most recent incident. There hadn't really been anything I'd consider major since we reconciled, so I was hoping that was all in the past. The most recent episode made me aware that it wasn't just in the past.

And yes, we have a male therapist, and I feel he has almost a male bias, and he definitely gives us advice that he clearly doesn't follow himself. I really do feel that he's "taking sides" by focusing so much on MY behavior modification, while BPDh just skates. BPDh sits there, mostly zoned out, and I even ask BPDh more questions than our T does. I want to see what BPDh thinks of what's been said, and what his opinion on things are during the session. The only time BPDh wants to talk is when he wants to read the list of my "flaws".

I'm seriously just sick of all this. I've worked on myself so much, and learned so much hear, read so much, that I really don't like that MC has also become all about ME. To me, MC is supposed to be about US, and the marriage... .

[formflier]

  To me, MC is supposed to be about US, and the marriage... .

Yes... .please express this in MC.  Seek a change or an explanation.

FF

[sweetheart]

One of the possible explanations that the MC has focused on you CB is that he can see that you are the more emotionally resilient one in your relationship. Remember the tests you did?

Often in MC the focus can be directed toward the partner who is perceived as capable of change, who is aware that the relationship is stuck and is willing to work to free it. Through you changing, the dynamics of your relationship may change.

ff is correct it is important if you can that you try and address this within the MC space. If however you feel this will further trigger your h and would continue to do so, then perhaps MC really isn't the place for you. I'm trying to word this carefully so you can make an informed decision regarding MC, and I am ever aware of how high conflict your marriage has been.

Remember CB your emotional safety is your responsibility, perhaps discuss in your own therapy how best to approach these issues.

[Sunfl0wer]

He didn't look BPDh in the eye and tell him that no matter what he "think" I'm doing, or have done, that physical abuse is WRONG. Nope, he kept addressing ME the entire time as if I could change this dynamic. I feel like the rape victim that is being blamed for the length of her skirt. This is so unfair!

Trust yourself here!  You are absolutely correct! 

I read the link sweetheart provided... Excellent!

When an issue that got physical occurred, my partner and I were in MC.

We had a session where this incident was discussed with MC.

MC immediately said: "This crossed a line."  By the end of the session, he let us know that he was no longer going to see us together, but would see us each for individual counseling. He explained that this individual counseling would continue unless the physical contact was admitted, accepted without blaming the other... .even one little bit.  Until MC felt that ownership, accountability, responsibility, and remorse for what happened was thoroughly understood and he created a boundary that we all accepted... .He would not return to seeing us as a couple.

I think this was the right thing to do.

I think your current counselor is indeed being unethical and does not require an explanation from you for ending services, however, if you wanted to share sweethearts article, maybe he could learn something.  But I wouldn't stick around to hear him defend it as it would indeed feel like the type of re victimization similar to what you describe a rape victim goes through. You don't deserve that.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, the tests he gave us, were ridiculous. BPDh results were quite a bit more accurate than mine, but certainly not spot on. Mine said I was deceitful(I almost NEVER lie), and the only part it got correct was it said I might have a dependent personality(I definitely can be co dependent at times). So many of the "question"(you know it was four circles and you have to pencil in strong agree/disagree) just didn't apply or there are extenuating circumstances in OUR situation that made answering difficult(the adult step kid situation, being one).

I don't give a lot of credence to the personality "test". I think actions and behaviors are key, and tell all, and that test could not give a complete view of that, mine or BPDh's.

I do agree that MC is likely focusing on me because I'm more receptive, but that makes me feel further to blame, and I refuse to feel like a victim.

Over a year ago, we went for ONE MC with another T, and he refused to see our together again, because he said BPDh was already checked out and had no respect for me. He said he'd continue to see ME, but not "us".

Sunflower: I think your T had a great idea, and the physical abuse should have been addressed. It's NOT taking sides, it's just FACTS. I mean, he doesn't hesitate to spend a whole hour trying to get me to not trigger BPDh which I find really backwards. I mean, GEESH, does he think I'm not already trying to do that? And it's NOT MY FAULT BPDh gets triggered. Our MC talks all the time about "ownership", but BPDh is not taking any ownership, and I certainly am. If I do it, I'll own it. Simple as that. I make mistakes, I'm human, and it's not easy living with someone who rages, his moods fluctuate from one minute to the next, and who is like a landmine.

I have until next Monday to decide about MC, but I really don't think I want to subject myself to any more of that. Just hearing that another T handled it differently, and BETTER, really makes me think I'm making a smart decision.

[Ceruleanblue]

Sunflower:

When you stated that your MC, said there had to be accountability, and admitting the abuse, and remorse, he was speaking of the person who perpetrated the abuse(your spouse), right? I mean, if the abuse was directed at you, it would be pretty sad if you had to take accountability! I'm really hoping you meant, he's see you both individually, but that he wanted your spouse to take ownership, learn to respect boundaries in regards to abuse, and feel remorse. What happened in this situation?

[formflier]

Sunflower: I think your T had a great idea, and the physical abuse should have been addressed. It's NOT taking sides, it's just FACTS. I mean, he doesn't hesitate to spend a whole hour trying to get me to not trigger BPDh which I find really backwards. I mean, GEESH, does he think I'm not already trying to do that? And it's NOT MY FAULT BPDh gets triggered. Our MC talks all the time about "ownership", but BPDh is not taking any ownership, and I certainly am. If I do it, I'll own it. Simple as that. I make mistakes, I'm human, and it's not easy living with someone who rages, his moods fluctuate from one minute to the next, and who is like a landmine.

Not saying one approach is right... .or wrong.  I know of counselors that will push to keep couples together to work on DV because they want to treat a dynamic.  

In no way does that say that DV is OK.  But if one side gets anger management and the other side continues trying to push buttons... .or ramps up pushing buttons to try to get the DV person "back where they should be" treatment of the r/s will most likely fail.

I do acknowledge that "most" MCs seem to say that if DV is present, separate and treat individually.

One of the reasons that I am pushing to discuss this in the context of MC, (abuse and possibly ending MC), is to make sure you fully understand the current treatment plan and where MC thinks it is at.  

There may be angles you aren't aware of, or MC has chosen not to reveal or focus on yet.

Plus, I agree, some of the stuff that your MC has done has made me scratch my head.   Instead of leaving, ask why those choices were made.  Then if you don't like the answers, decide to end or modify treatment.

Assumptions about why things are being done are bad... .especially when so much is on the line.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Sunflower:

When you stated that your MC, said there had to be accountability, and admitting the abuse, and remorse, he was speaking of the person who perpetrated the abuse(your spouse), right? I mean, if the abuse was directed at you, it would be pretty sad if you had to take accountability! I'm really hoping you meant, he's see you both individually, but that he wanted your spouse to take ownership, learn to respect boundaries in regards to abuse, and feel remorse. What happened in this situation?

Yes, he wanted the abuser to take full accountability.  He would see us separate until HE felt satisfactory accountability occurred with what he called "no mitigating circumstances."  He had a clearly defined plan and process for addressing abuse in a relationship.

1. Separate partners for individual

2. Full accountability, no mitigating circumstances to soften or explain the reason of abuse.  Once the line of abuse was crossed, he stopped any words of "why," he stopped any explanation dead in it's tracks and honed in on a lecture on being physical NOT acceptable given ANY circumstance. (short of self defense)

3. He was to inform us when he felt full accountability was taken, and he would inform us when we could reestablish working in MC together again.

4. He made it clear that the r/s would "never" be the same again.  That it would never go back to the way things were, but that the r/s would take a new course redefining our r/s.  ... .but never "what we had."

The result:

We passed the accountability phase.  MC WAS convinced that we could have a violence free r/s.

BF used this stress as part of his excuse to bail.

MC was baffled, why MC was ready to reunite us, but BF was not.

BF had other issues going on that he did not want to face, so to think it all was "too much work" was the route he took.

Before this issue though... .

MC actually was only partially effective.  BF used things MC said wrong.  BF used words and advice meant for him to accuse ME of not doing something.  There WAS good though too...   BF did not want "bad reports" going to MC next visit so BF was a gem on the days before our appointments.  He also would behave well right after often.  However, in session, he NEVER took accountability for a thing... .and just used such requests by MC as a springboard to distract the session and complain about me... .vs looking inward.  He presented a different persona to MC.  Also, because I was the only one really doing the work, like you, MC often talked to me when speaking of changing things.  His method towards BF was more a role of assisting him to soothe him.  He even literally tried to teach me to soothe BF as well when BF got upset raging at me. (which I don't agree with, I think I'm better off walking away from emotional abuse)

[Sunfl0wer]

Assumptions about why things are being done are bad... .especially when so much is on the line.

You make a good point FF. 

There are times when I have been frustrated with a T or MC and often, just putting it all out there has caused a lot of good to come of it, and brought many things to light.

[Ceruleanblue]

We could ask MC about the end goal, or why he gives certain advice, but my gut is just telling me this isn't getting us anywhere, and what little I'm getting out of it, and the even less BPDh gets out of it, isn't worth it. I mean, even if the MC has a valid reason for the way he's been directing therapy, I think in the four months or so we've been going, some progress should have been made. The studies I see on MC, say it's something like best results happen between sessions 5-15(or something like that), and we are way past that. In fact, I think in some ways, this has enabled BPDh, and definitely made the situation with BPDh's kids worse(the whole lack of boundaries and just "wait it out" while kissing butt technique).

I'll ask BPDh what he wants to do, but he was also learning towards not going any more. Also, if we stop, he can see about getting into group DBT, and from what he says, it's a far more focused form of DBT.

I mean, we can always try MC again later, but next time, I'm going to make sure that the way the T does the therapy in more in line with what my T said MC should be about.

[formflier]

I mean, we can always try MC again later, but next time, I'm going to make sure that the way the T does the therapy in more in line with what my T said MC should be about.

Or we can make adjustments to the current treatment plan... .

Or know for sure... .crystal clear... .that his plan and your goals are divergent.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, we could have another session on Monday, and find out where he's going with things, but it still won't change the fact that I've spoken with him several times, as has BPDh about his vision of how we should respond/not respond with this adult kid issue. We've been doing what he suggested for FOUR YEARS, and all it's gotten is worse. I even told him this, but he buys into BPDH's empty "things are getting better"(you know, in his sole dealing with his daughter because I'm "not allowed" around). Our MC is clearly enabling on this issue(and several others), and I've decided that to me, the WHY he's taking this tact doesn't matter.

All the other times I've tried to talk to him about it, or other concerns I have, I get nowhere. I'm just not willing to keep addressing the same issues with him over and over, but I'm sure BPDh would love to. He LIKES the status quo, and not having to have any boundaries.

Plus, MC really, really put the nails in the coffin when he pretty much was willing to only deal with me when physical abuse was addressed. I shouldn't have to feel blamed for what happened, and it felt like total "blame the victim" mentality. I get that I trigger BPDh(unmeaningly), and I work on that, but I shouldn't have to sit there, and have MC deal solely with ME, thereby giving BPDh the idea that "look, the problem really is CeruleanBlue".

I'll talk to BPDh about it, and we might address it if we go to MC Monday, but I do know I'm not going to continue to go. I'm not going to put myself through that anymore. If I wasn't dealing with a spouse with a PD, I'd make a totally different decision, of course.

[formflier]

  but I do know I'm not going to continue to go. 

Please be open minded... .unless you know that you have had a "crystal clear" conversation with MC and hubby inside the MC room about all of these issues.

Note:  I agree that chances are slim that the MC will pull out a new treatment plan that may change your mind and that the PD is a huge part of it.

I think for your sake you need to lay this out and listen and understand the MC's plan and his assessment.

I would not present it as we are quitting... tell us why this happened or why you did this or that.

Let him know that what is going on up to this point is NOT WORKING and you want to discuss with him options/reasoning on how we got here and if he has plan for future.

Evaluate what is said... .go from there. 

Is the PD openly talked about?

One other thought... .MC is not about addressing the daughters behavior.  It is about the r/s with you and your hubby.

If your hubby behaves badly when daughter is around or with "daughter issues" then that is fair game. 

Daughter is not in the MC with you guys.  Her behavior should not have bearing on continuing or discontinuing MC... or happiness with therapist plans.

Listen... I get it that it "feels like" she is in the r/s with you.  But that is your husbands doing... .not the daughter.  He holds the key to the boundary that she is crossing.

FF

[HappyNihilist]

I'll talk to BPDh about it, and we might address it if we go to MC Monday, but I do know I'm not going to continue to go. I'm not going to put myself through that anymore. If I wasn't dealing with a spouse with a PD, I'd make a totally different decision, of course.

Ceruleanblue, I think discontinuing MC might in fact be the best course of action for you right now.

MC is not recommended for high conflict couples, where physical intimidation and/or abusive behavior is present in the relationship.

I certainly think you should keep seeing your personal therapist, and address your feelings and make a safety plan and boundaries there. It would be great if your husband kept going to his own therapist, too.

I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with a MC situation like that again. It's important to take care of yourself. 

[Ceruleanblue]

Exactly! So many times, our MC becomes all about BPD's adult kids, no matter how many times I try to get them off the topic. It's actually often MC that does this. And my entire issue with BPDh is that he's hugely enmeshed, and has allowed his kids to make him choose between them or me. I've never made him make a choice, but they force him to do so, or they won't see him, or allow him around his grandkids. It's manipulative, controlling, and just plain wrong.

I have addressed the issue concerning BPDh's kids a lot of times in MC, but MC won't allow a change of plans, and BPDh doesn't want one. He doesn't want to "rock the boat", or "set her off"(his daughter), as he says. I've decided that this could go on for YEARS more, as it's already gone on for four years. I feel they dynamic needs to change, or BPDh needs boundaries, and I need to matter in this issue too, and so far, I haven't mattered. I've apologized(for things I didn't do), I've tried to offer the olive branch, I've laid back, I've waited, but I've run out of patience.

I agree that our MC isn't about his kids, but I can't get either of them off the subject, plus it is a huge issue in our marriage. Not the daughter, but HOW BPDh deals with it, and how he allows me to be left out and disrespected. Heck, BPDh is being controlled, manipulated, and disrespected by his kids too. None of his family understand why he won't stand up to his kids. They've all told him that he needs to stand up for himself, and protect his marriage. We reconciled, and the "adult" kids boycotted him.

Plus, NO, the PD is not being addressed at all. We've never openly talked about it in MC, and I'm sure that BPDh would blow up if I did bring it up. BPDh doesn't want to admit he has a PD, although he's either been fully diagnosed(and lying to me), or his psychiatrist has definitely hinted at it because he told BPDh that he has "traits of BPD", put him on a max dose of meds, and put him in DBT.

I chose this MC because online it said he dealt with PD, but from what I've seen, he's focusing on solely me.

I'm undecided what we'll do, but I do know I've been open minded long enough, and my concerns previously were poo pooed.

I'm sort of scared to tell MC again that his advice is NOT WORKING, because I've said that over and over. I work on things he tells me to work on, but I'm only half this marriage, and this issue concerning how BPDh deals with his adult kids, IS a huge issue, and neither MC, nor BPDh want to change the current "plan"(which is actually no plan other than to keep waiting, and don't cross this daughter). If I've already addressed this about two other times, I'm unlikely to get a different answer next time, plus the MC and BPDh gang up on me, and keep telling me "it'll just take time". I call BS on that. We're at four years and counting. BPDh and his kids aren't going to just "get better" with time. Geesh. So frustrating.

I think it is MC's job to teach us some tools to communicate as a couple, deal with issues, and so far, none of that has been done.

[formflier]

I think it is MC's job to teach us some tools to communicate as a couple, deal with issues, and so far, none of that has been done.

CB,

I'm only guessing here, but if he truly is a guy with experience with PDs... .and lets take his word at that (for now).  Then it makes even more sense why it "feels" like he is focusing on you. 

Hey may be... or it may be a perception thing.  A great reason to listen to his point of view... and for you to hold no concerns back in MC... you will never know the "nugget" of information he needs.  Give him the info... let him guide you.

Anyway, someone with experience with PDs would KNOW who is more likely to change and who is CAPABLE of change.

You know the answer to that question... .the nons on bpdfamily know the answer to that question.

It's not fair... .it just is.

FF is a guy that likes statistics and numbers.  The vibe I get from you and my idea of your r/s is that CB will be doing 80% of the changes and CB hubby will be doing 80%.

The key is that is the status now.  Remind yourself this is "for now".  As things "thaw" I think those numbers will get better.

I'm not trying to minimize your challenges or say that you don't have a point... .a HUGE point.

Last:  There is a personal side to why I am pushing you to lay it out for MC.  My wife and I went through several MCs until we found the one that "clicked" and made an impact with us.  The key was to not give up... .even when it looks hopeless.

It was not all the other MCs fault either.

I understand the view that says MC is not for those with DV in their r/s.  I really do.  My "issue" is that a stance like that sets up thinking that "I will go to MC when you (fill in the blank)" 

That hands power to the pwBPD.  Never a good play... .IMO.

"Our r/s is important, I will be present at MC and give it my all... ." (without preconditions) is a much better stance (IMO)

Now, someone with DV issues is going to take a strong MC and a strong partner to keep redirecting the session to somewhere healthy. 

I found out about BPD because I had a MC that did this.  There was some "light DV" in my r/s (pushing and shoving of me). 

My wife blathered on one day and completely contradicted what she had said not 2 minutes before (accused me of being the abuser... and some other things)

Normally, MC's are NOT supposed to judge.  But when they hear and see both sides, (ie wife says sky is blue, 2 minutes later says she never said sky is blue... it has always been orange)... .they can stop and "call them on it"

That's kinda what happened... .my wife go up and danced around the room (she usually stomps around in a fit... this was more of dancing and hopping)... .and then ran out the door (and never came back).

I stayed in the room and the MC told me about SWOE and "traits of BPD".  I found this site shortly after.

Stick with MC... .you never know when you will find the turning point in your r/s. (IMO)

FF