Painted white? Recycle imminent?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So in just a week, my ex went from painting me the blackest black, smearing me on Facebook, and threatening me with a PPO, to . . . wanting to have dinner with me and some friends on Saturday night.

Does this mean I'm painted white?

It's pretty clear that he wants to patch things up with our mutual friends for sure.  And the fact that he doesn't seem apprehensive about seeing me is a big step in the right direction.  I haven't seen him at all in almost nine weeks.  We broke up over the Internet, so our last meeting in person was very positive.

I am wondering if he hasn't already, if he will paint me white immediately upon seeing me.  I know from experience that seeing your ex in person after a long time can be a pretty powerful experience.

I am nervous, though, because it would be really hard for me if he shows up and ignores me, treats me badly, or shows interest in other women.  I guess all of those are possibilities.

My gut feeling is that he is doing this as a very neutral and non-confrontational way to find out how I really feel about him right now, without any real emotional risk.  In my other thread, I predicted a recycle between 6-10 weeks, or before Halloween.  So far it looks like I might be right.

Has anyone experienced seeing their ex after a long silent treatment?  How did it go?

[GreenEyedMonster]

So in just a week, my ex went from painting me the blackest black, smearing me on Facebook, and threatening me with a PPO, to . . . wanting to have dinner with me and some friends on Saturday night.

Does this mean I'm painted white?

It's pretty clear that he wants to patch things up with our mutual friends for sure.  And the fact that he doesn't seem apprehensive about seeing me is a big step in the right direction.  I haven't seen him at all in almost nine weeks.  We broke up over the Internet, so our last meeting in person was very positive.

I am wondering if he hasn't already, if he will paint me white immediately upon seeing me.  I know from experience that seeing your ex in person after a long time can be a pretty powerful experience.

I am nervous, though, because it would be really hard for me if he shows up and ignores me, treats me badly, or shows interest in other women.  I guess all of those are possibilities.

My gut feeling is that he is doing this as a very neutral and non-confrontational way to find out how I really feel about him right now, without any real emotional risk.  In my other thread, I predicted a recycle between 6-10 weeks, or before Halloween.  So far it looks like I might be right.

Has anyone experienced seeing their ex after a long silent treatment?  How did it go?

[Schermarhorn]

I met my ex about 2 months after we broke up. It was awkward. Immediately afterward, she started calling me a coward over text.

[Suspicious1]

How do your friends feel about it? I know that what he did alienated them a little - do they want to go to dinner with him? I know that if I had a friend who acted like that, I'd avoid them like the plague in case I was on the receiving end of their behaviour one day. How do you feel about going after he threatened you with legal action? Would you be comfortable in the same room as him, knowing that he could take something you say or do out of context and use it as an excuse to accuse you again?

I was split black and painted white a few times, but only when it was him who did the dumping. On each occasion actually seeing each other in person was like a lightening bolt - he was all charm and nostalgia and wanting to be together again. Every time he split me black, it was over the internet too, and I do think people take things out of context, read things with the wrong tone - it makes it really easy to demonise someone. My ex admitted that even when I was apologising on messenger and asking what I could do to make it better, in his head he read what I was saying as being in a sarcastic tone. Nothing could have been further than the truth, but of course it inflamed the argument. It was totally out of control. In person, that can't happen in the way it so easily does online.

Anyway, our longest ST was about four weeks. I ended the relationship nearly 18 months ago and I have neither been painted white nor contacted since, so I don't know if it always goes that way. I suspect now that there is enough water under the bridge for us just to view each other as distant friends.

[GreenEyedMonster]

My friends were not impressed with his behavior to say the least, but they maintain an "open door" policy with our group, where they will only uninvite someone if they are rude at an event.  They consider the dispute between me and my ex to be our private business for us to handle.  Most of the friends we share are guys, so they aren't particularly worried, I don't think. 

Curiosity has me going more than anything at this point.  I want to know how he will act toward me.  I think that when he threatened me with the PPO, he actually triggered his own abandonment fears.  I think that people generally responded to him by saying that he was acting like a jerk, and he didn't get the support he expected.  I think this made him realize that people aren't all on his side, and that I might not be waiting around for him to come back.  It's funny, because within days of the threat, he began reaching out and looking for me and checking to see if our friends still liked him.  For this reason I think we're done with threats of that nature.

If he takes something out of context and threatens me with it, I think that he knows that he's done with the entire group of friends.  They all have e-mails from him that say that he won't do that.  The hosts also made it clear to him that I am welcome at all events and that tolerating my presence is a condition of coming along.  So he knows the rules.

I'm more nervous about being blown off or him very intentionally flirting with other women in front of me, etc.

[Larmoyant]

Hi GreenEyedMonster,

This just happened to me and if I might offer some advice I would say 'run for the hills'! I inadvertently, although some people believe he may have been stalking me, bumped into my exBPD/NPDbf whilst out one evening. We had broken up a few months previously. One thing led to another and before you know it we were back together. Very, very short honeymoon period. In the last two weeks he too has threatened me with legal action, ranted at me, raged, insulted me, called me every name under the sun, stalked a man I'd had a few dates with, it goes on and on, only to abruptly change, become calmer, tell  me to ignore his threats, etc, etc and tell  me he wouldn't act this way if I hadn't dated this other man, or if I hadn't said this, said that, blah, blah, blah. Nothing ever changes. I have apparently committed the most terrible crime against him. Having had the audacity to try and get on with my life and date another man when we weren't together! It is all my fault as he keeps telling me over and over and over. I feel overwrought and helpless. Completely overwhelmed. I should have stayed well away. I know I'm not supposed to say 'run away', to others. I know it's not as simple as that, but I wished I had.

[OnceConfused]

What do you want from him ? That is the key question. He can paint you white or black or blue, and this is his choice, but you can have a choice of being with him or not. So the key question is what do you really really want?

Let me ask a stupid question. Why do you want to go out with a person so that you can have the fear of being stabbed in the back by them ?  go where you feel happy and loved not where you feel afraid.

If you want happiness in  your life, then surround yourself with happy, positive people and objects. If you want to fly high like an eagle, don't hang around with turkeys.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey G-E-M, Whether you are split black or painted white, it's all part of the drama of a BPD r/s, which is reason to tread carefully here.  It sounds like you are considering a recycle, which is OK and many of us (including me) have done it.  The question, as OnceConfused suggests, is where is it all leading?  Only you know when its time to get off the roller coaster.  In the meantime, buckle your seatbelt . . .

LuckyJim

[shatra]

Yes GEM sounds like he wants to recycle

Suspisious wrote--

  He split me only when he did the dumping... .I ended the relationship nearly 18 months ago and I have neither been painted white nor contacted since,

----So when he did the breaking up he did the push-pull and returned, but when you did the breaking up he didn't return? Or was there something different about the last breakup why he didn't return?

[Suspicious1]

Yes GEM sounds like he wants to recycle

Suspisious wrote--

 He split me only when he did the dumping... .I ended the relationship nearly 18 months ago and I have neither been painted white nor contacted since,

----So when he did the breaking up he did the push-pull and returned, but when you did the breaking up he didn't return? Or was there something different about the last breakup why he didn't return?

Yes, exactly that. He would dump me, do a bit of push-pull to see if I was still interested, and if I looked like I might be amenable he'd be back in touch. This time I left him (as I felt another dumping coming on) and not only did he not return, but he flat ignored any attempts I made to talk to him after that. There was nothing different about the last breakup, except that I ended it instead of him. The only other difference was that I hadn't yet been split black when I left him. I was being devalued but I hadn't been discarded yet. Every time he'd dumped me he'd gone on a massive rant about how evil I was. This time lacked that because I pre-empted it.

And actually, while I longed for a recycle for a while, I'm grateful that he kept his distance. It's been like breaking an addiction, but at last I feel like I'm clean.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I honestly think I need a recycle in order to learn.

I think I need to have "tried" the relationship, now knowing about his BPD, to see how impossible it is.

I am going to try to involve as few other people as possible if this happens.  My ex is in therapy and from what I can tell it does help him.  I do not know if he is diagnosed with BPD or not, but he is very self-aware and articulate about his problems.  I am interested in seeing what he says about this whole episode.

I also tend to think that when he sees me, his object constancy issues will cause him to remember everything and paint me white again.  But we'll see.

[Lou12]

Good luck for today and let us know how you get on!

I understand your need to recycle. It's our narcissism coming through and believing we can be that one difference! Doesn't work though!

Beware and be prepared for him behaving indifferent towards you. This allows him to watch you in a state of confusion and maintain control. Don't allow him the power. You hold your head up and be fabulous. Remember he's the sick one not you!

X

[GreenEyedMonster]

Well, here are my predictions, from most to least likely.

1)  He thinks he's going to show up and be aloof and ignore me, but he doesn't have that kind of control over his emotions.  He has never reunited with an ex after a breakup before, but I have, so I am very aware of the "lightning bolt" phenomenon described by earlier posters.  It can be very emotional to see that person again.  Personally, I think he will be caught off-guard by his own emotions, feelings will become facts, and on and on . . .

2)  His lack of feelings for me will translate into our in-person interactions, and he will simply act like nothing happened.

3)  This whole thing is already a recycle attempt, planned from the start, so he already knows he still has feelings for me.

4)  This is some kind of trick/trap and he will blatantly ignore me in order to hurt me, perhaps flirting with other women or rubbing his unavailability in my face.

5 hours and I'll find out . . .

[Lou12]

Oh and be prepared for him not turning up at all! X

[GreenEyedMonster]

He turned up. 

He turned up wearing one of his best shirts and new shoes, no less.

He sat down a couple feet away from me and actually had the decency to say hello to me.  I didn't talk to him, really, though, because I am not really sure where I stand with him.  He kept glancing at me a lot when he thought I wasn't looking.  At one point he sat down next to me, stayed there about 20 seconds, then got up and moved somewhere else.  He kept looking at me across the room.  I think I was a little icier to him than he expected, but I am also pretty sick.  He didn't attempt to make any real conversation with me, and likewise, I didn't talk to him much.

We're having dinner and drinks together tonight yet, so maybe I'll make an attempt to chat.  We'll see.

[GreenEyedMonster]

For all those curious, here is the recap of the evening.

When he arrived there, he chose a seat as close to being across from me at the table as he could.  Things were still a little tense between us then and he pretty much tried not to look at me.  I finally broke the ice and asked him what he'd been up to lately and I was actually kind of surprised how much he had going on.  I told him what was going on with me and we chatted about that a little, but things were still tense.

When some more people arrived, we fell into a pretty comfortable conversation.  Then he started mirroring me something fierce.  That's exactly what he did at the beginning of our relationship.  (For those of you unfamiliar with mirroring, it's when someone copies your mannerisms, e.g. looking in a certain direction every time you do, because they are attracted to you.)  He looked at me a lot.  Every time someone else at the table would tell a joke, he would look over at me and smile to see if I was laughing.  When we were together, he had this certain "knowing look" that he'd share with me -- he'd smile really big and glance at me over his glasses.  He did that so many times tonight.  It sort of felt like old times . . . he kept smiling at me like that . . .

I asked him if he had kept watching a TV show we started together, and he said no, he didn't think it was that interesting.  That really surprised me, because he always wanted to come over and watch it when we were together.  Maybe he had an ulterior motive, ha.

He also seemed rather taken with a girl at the other end of the table, and looked at her a lot, but never talked to her.

So as far as recycling, the evening was very inconclusive.  Just like always, I was the one who had to initiate the conversation and reassure him that things are okay.  But once I did that, he got really comfortable with me again and things went well.  Even if this kind of relationship with him is the type of "closure" I get, I would be very, very happy with that.  I am glad that I struck up the conversation with him and that now things at least feel okay between us.  I know many on this board never get anything close to what I got tonight, so I am counting my blessings.

He didn't say goodbye to me when he left, which I also found interesting.

We're having dinner together again next week along with our group of friends, so I'm sure things will continue to develop.

Well, that's it . . .

[shatra]

   Sounds like "rapprochement" when the toddler turns around and starts taking tentative steps back towards mother, after having walked away from mother. The toddler wants to test to see if mother is still there and still cares about him. 

    What about any anger on your part? He had been threatening PPO's against you, and now he is warming up to you. Do you feel any anger about how he had been treating you?  It was brave of you to be nice to him after he did that

[GreenEyedMonster]

   Sounds like "rapprochement" when the toddler turns around and starts taking tentative steps back towards mother, after having walked away from mother. The toddler wants to test to see if mother is still there and still cares about him. 

    What about any anger on your part? He had been threatening PPO's against you, and now he is warming up to you. Do you feel any anger about how he had been treating you?  It was brave of you to be nice to him after he did that

Yes, shatra, I think that you hit the nail on the head with rapprochement.  He certainly didn't throw himself at me or beg for me back, but he kept putting himself just at the right physical proximity for me to make the move. 

He is not a risk taker.  He does not tend to approach people or expect to be friends with people who do not approach him first.  I knew it was going to be me to make the first move.  My e-mail made him angry at first, but I also think it's the reason he came back to the group.  He knew that I wasn't going to shame him.  He maintains a sort of defensive anger toward people who might be angry at him, so things started off tense, but by the end of the evening, it was like nothing even happened.  I think being alone would still be a little tense, but I guess that's to be expected.

Am I angry at him?  I could be, I guess, and justify it.  But I feel like it's pointless to be angry at him for being what he is.  It is like being angry at a disabled person for being disabled.  If I thought he were capable of emotionally processing feelings like intense guilt and just didn't care, I would probably be angry at him.  But I think that any sort of failure, to him, registers as intense self-hatred.  So yeah, I could be angry and justifiably try to hold him accountable for how he treated me.  I could be aloof and call him toxic and say that he doesn't belong in my life.  But really, in my opinion, all of those things are fairly pointless, because first off, he is in my life and probably not going anywhere.  But more importantly, my anger wouldn't be constructive anger that would change anything for the better. 

The reality is that it must be pretty horrible to be like that, to feel such intense pain over such small mistakes, and to be trying to navigate a really difficult, competitive adult world with the emotional fortitude of a child.  So I guess I am trying to balance compassion with protecting myself at this point.  I'll have to figure out what that looks like.

I keep seeing that look, and the mirroring, in my mind over and over again.  I'm haunted by it, almost like last night was a dream.  It feels that way right now.  By the end of the night it was like there was some friendly little conspiracy between the two of us again, just like there always was, joking about things and watching each other's reactions.  I kept getting that big smile.  And when I'd bring up some old joke from the past, he'd join right in.  So strange to think that two weeks ago he hoped he'd never see me again.  But I guess that's what I'm dealing with here.

[Lou12]

Hey GEM

That's great news, I'm happy for you that things worked out how you'd hoped.

I'm glad you've mentioned that your still protecting yourself, that's a great thing to do as well as addressing that he is what he is.

x

[GreenEyedMonster]

I think I can conclusively say now that I'm painted white.

I'd also say that he was acting very attracted to me and energized by my presence by the end of the night.  Still trying to figure out his deal with watching the other girl.  (She was way too young for him, and out of his league in about every way possible.  It's like he doesn't realize that he's middle aged.)  I'm pretty sick so I am having a hard time analyzing all this, but he seems to be cautiously attracted to me, as if it all would depend on what would happen if we talked one on one.  Maybe we'll get that chance next week.  I'm just glad the ice is broken.

I don't think I'm re-idealized in the complete sense, but I think there were moments last night that were close.

[Lou12]

I'm suppose the only thing is time will tell.

How do you feel now that you are a few steps closer to possibly re engaging? I know for me that this way actually the time when I questioned if I even wanted him at all !

X

[GreenEyedMonster]

Is this what re-engagement looks like?  I'm still not sure that he'd even take me back, given the chance.  Our relationship has really lost its innocence, so to speak, and I'm not sure that my ex would find himself attracted to me the same way.  Though he always gives it all away with his body language, and last night he was sure sending some strong signals. 

I don't know what to do yet.  I have a week to think about it, I suppose.

I'm thrown off by his obvious interest in the other woman.  What's with that?  He only *glanced* at her and heard that she likes to read and looked like he would almost rearrange his evening to talk to her!  And I'm sure it would have come to nothing!

[Lou12]

I honestly don't know about the other woman. Maybe she was really pretty and he was attracted to her or maybe he was using her to make you jealous and insecure?

This guy still gives me the creeps though after what you told me he was like about his ex girlfriend and then how quickly he went from wanting a PPO on you to being friendly! Something smells off to me! But that's just my thoughts. Just protect yourself x

[GreenEyedMonster]

Yeah, I think the girl was just "hot" in his opinion and he sensed the possibility of a connection based on a (very general) mutual interest.  He talked about having "crushes" on people a lot -- actresses, random people, etc. and I think this is just one of them.  He didn't go out of his way to pursue her.  He could have gone and talked to her, after all, but he chose to stay and talk to me.  She was definitely his "type," but like I said, far too young for him and probably not interested in him anyway.

I am still not sure what happened in the last two weeks to spin him around from wanting a PPO to wanting to have dinner with me.  That is really strange, but I suppose it's all explained by the BPD.  If BPD exists on a "spectrum," I'd say that he's pretty far along.  What I suspect happened is that, after the breakup, he suffered from a delusion that I was going to stalk him and chase him and he was scared by that after being engulfed.  Then when he got publicly angry at me and made the PPO threat, someone knocked some sense into him (maybe his therapist?) and pointed out that he was being unreasonable and that he was lucky if I was waiting for him at all.  Because what you can't have is always more interesting, he decided to go fishing and see if I was still around.

I think he may have been surprised that I wasn't absolutely elated to see him right away, and that made him cautious.  I think I'm still a bit of a wild card to him.  Sure, I was super nice in a public/group setting.  But what would I say to him if we were alone?  I think he still probably mistrusts me because of that.  But after he was so responsive to be and mirroring me like crazy last night, he could fall in love with me all over again this week, or not.  I guess not much would surprise me now.  He may have enjoyed seeing me so much that it rekindled his addiction to my attention and he will want more.  We shall see.  He is clearly very emotionally unstable.  I saw him turn on a dime about wanting a girlfriend at the beginning of our relationship, too.  With him, feelings really ARE facts, so even if he mistrusts me now, that could change in a heartbeat.

One thing I found amusing is that, while standing in very close proximity to me yesterday, he was telling one of our mutual friends where he lived.  Very loudly.  After sending me a letter from a false return address.  Perhaps some guilt about thinking I'm a stalker?

[cyclistIII]

Wow... .I loved the play-by-play. Part of me feels like I'm watching that part of the horror movie where someone says, 'Hey, I know! Let's split up!' and you want to scream, "NOO DON'T DO IT IT'S A TRAP!"

And then the other part of me is envious and wishing that my ex were giving signs that he wanted to try again too... .

Sigh.

[Beach_Babe]

Hey this is great to hear! Keep us updated Green.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Wow... .I loved the play-by-play. Part of me feels like I'm watching that part of the horror movie where someone says, 'Hey, I know! Let's split up!' and you want to scream, "NOO DON'T DO IT IT'S A TRAP!"

And then the other part of me is envious and wishing that my ex were giving signs that he wanted to try again too... .

Sigh.

Heck, I feel this way about myself.

I am trying to plan my next move.  Clearly I am dealing with someone who does not initiate -- and never did, regardless of our relationship status -- but initiating anything with him comes with its risks.  He has also never recycled a relationship before because, frankly, the opportunity has not presented itself.  I'm not sure that he's even considered the possibility.  He's clearly in bonding mode from what I've seen, so I guess I can use this to my advantage if I choose.

We're having dinner together again next Saturday and going to an event afterward.  Clearly I am going to have to make some decisions about how to handle this.

I've been doing some reading on rapprochement.  That is fascinating stuff.  Apparently when the toddler leaves the mother, s/he pretty much always expects to be pursued or followed, whether s/he reacts to it favorably or not.  I guess that pwBPD register lack of following with lack of love, even if being followed makes them angry.  So when my ex showed up on Saturday and said a very deadpan "hi" to me and plunked himself down two feet away from me in my line of sight, that was my invitation to chase.  I think his interest in the other woman was probably a reflection of the fact that he's looking for a bonding partner and isn't quite sure if I will still have him. 

I'm guessing that he's excited to see me next weekend.  Things went well so far.

I think I'll probably try to talk to him without so many other people around next week and see what happens.  There are a lot of things I can ask him about.  After all, the boundary of flirtation has already been crossed.

[shatra]

gem wrote

I've been doing some reading on rapprochement.  That is fascinating stuff.  Apparently when the toddler leaves the mother, s/he pretty much always expects to be pursued or followed, whether s/he reacts to it favorably or not.  I guess that pwBPD register lack of following with lack of love, even if being followed makes them angry.

----Yes, if they are pursued, they may feel relieved, but also angry (as if they are being engulfed, or the partner is clinging)... .they seek the security of being able to turn around after separating, and be able to return and reunite with the "mother figure"

[Lucky Jim]

Hey GEM, it seems like you are interested in a recycle, which OK.  Most of us (read: me) have done it.  The question I have for you is: what makes you think it will go differently this time?  A lot of people who recycle end up in the same place where they started, except that its more painful the second time around.  Suggest you tread carefully here.

LuckyJim

[GreenEyedMonster]

Hey GEM, it seems like you are interested in a recycle, which OK.  Most of us (read: me) have done it.  The question I have for you is: what makes you think it will go differently this time?  A lot of people who recycle end up in the same place where they started, except that its more painful the second time around.  Suggest you tread carefully here.

LuckyJim

Yes, I'm not sure exactly what I want out of this.  The whole thing still seems surreal to me.

Also, I figured out the puzzle of the other woman.  She looks a lot like his other ex.  No wonder he acted like he'd seen a ghost.