Cultivating my inner narcissist

[Depression = 72% of members]

It's been a lifelong habit to care how people close to me are feeling. Through therapy, I feel like I've moved from codependency to concern. That said, I've come to realize that pwBPD can be energy vampires, exploiting my sympathy and caring.

A recent example: home maintenance. My husband thinks nothing of spending excessive money on himself: camera gear, travel, books. Recently he went to the opera and stayed in a $1000 a night hotel. He's got the money, so I don't care, but having been poor all my life, it seems really wasteful.

Our house, which was built almost ten years ago is starting to show its age and needs some maintenance, which is beyond the scope of my handy woman talents. I tell him what I'm planning and get his OK, but am met with an icy stare, a hateful look. I know snarky comments will follow later.

So now I'm cultivating my inner narcissist: not giving a sh--! It's not easy, but it's not worth me apologizing, acting guilty, feeling remorse, etc. which I've done in the past. I can see how narcissists can get along with pwBPD by not caring about their dramatics. Good grief, the house needs repairs--it's not my fault and I refuse to be victimized by his selfishness.

[Cat Familiar]

It's been a lifelong habit to care how people close to me are feeling. Through therapy, I feel like I've moved from codependency to concern. That said, I've come to realize that pwBPD can be energy vampires, exploiting my sympathy and caring.

A recent example: home maintenance. My husband thinks nothing of spending excessive money on himself: camera gear, travel, books. Recently he went to the opera and stayed in a $1000 a night hotel. He's got the money, so I don't care, but having been poor all my life, it seems really wasteful.

Our house, which was built almost ten years ago is starting to show its age and needs some maintenance, which is beyond the scope of my handy woman talents. I tell him what I'm planning and get his OK, but am met with an icy stare, a hateful look. I know snarky comments will follow later.

So now I'm cultivating my inner narcissist: not giving a sh--! It's not easy, but it's not worth me apologizing, acting guilty, feeling remorse, etc. which I've done in the past. I can see how narcissists can get along with pwBPD by not caring about their dramatics. Good grief, the house needs repairs--it's not my fault and I refuse to be victimized by his selfishness.

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[Notwendy]

I grew up in a similar situation, not exactly the same, but my mother spends money like it grows on trees while my father scrimped and saved. At one point it seemed they were in financial strain, and even asking my father for money resulted in him being angry.

There didn't seem to be money for when I went to college, yet mother seemed to have whatever she wanted.

So it was very triggering to have a H who didn't seem to hesitate to by something expensive for himself, but who has grumbled at family expenses- and those icy looks. From his point of view, he is just exerting his right to "express" himself as chief wage earner. I don't think it means as much to him to be grumbling as it has bothered me.

He has admitted to me that I am more frugal than he is. He at times has impulsively bought things for himself that I would not consider.  He has taken care of the family, so it really is OK. My problem is that I not only think twice, I try to look for sales, where the best price is.

I also think the house needs some updating on the decor, like painting. I don't think my H would have a problem with it if it were worked in the budget- but I think I'd be hearing about the cost with grumbling- and getting past that is hard for me.

Like you, I would not even consider a hotel like that. I don't think my H would either as that is out of our price range. He did mention eating at an expensive restaurant when he was travelling- because he wanted to try it. That isn't a budget breaker, but for me, personally,  I wouldn't have even considered it.

I think what is going on with me is two things, part is feeling undeserving- from how I grew up, a bit of not wanting to be like my mother, and the other side of that is that while I can enjoy having things, I think I learned to focus on other things growing up. When choosing a hotel, I look at aspects such as safety, cleanliness, location- and I am willing to pay more for them. I have spent more for a hotel when I think there is a benefit such as a convenient location, better reviews, but spending past that doesn't appeal to me. Likewise, when choosing a place to eat, I look at healthy menu, quality of food, and would pay more than that, but I am just as happy with a glass of house wine as I would be with a $100 bottle of champagne- so I don't have a reason to want that.

I think, like you Cat, I'd rather spend a day in a barn than in a fancy hotel. It make sense to work on the feeling of worthlessness, but also, it is OK to have different wishes and wants too.

[Cat Familiar]

I think what is going on with me is two things, part is feeling undeserving- from how I grew up... .

Thanks, Notwendy. This certainly applies to me as well. As a child when I asked my parents for things, I often was told I was "selfish" and made to feel ashamed that I was asking for a pair of shoes like the rest of the girls were wearing. My parents were very frugal and that's how I've always lived.

As in your family, you and your kids make up one faction with certain needs and activities and your husband another.

In my case, it's me, the animals and the house and my husband is in another camp. I'd love to have him in my camp, but it seems he is the one who excludes himself. If the house needs something, it's like I'm asking for something unreasonable and being "selfish". He will go on and on about how "things always break" and I think, "welcome to the physical world."

[Notwendy]

My mother described me as "selfish" too. It really upset me, because I didn't think of myself as that. I thought she was selfish. Maybe it was some kind of projection but I didn't know that as a kid.

I remember her going shopping and buying expensive things while dad was stressing about money. I recall thinking I didn't want to do that when I was married. I wanted to be a team with my H. It was him who chose the divisions of him/ the kids and I.

I have taken pride in how well I have managed our expenses, and I try to be as careful as is reasonable. So when he grumbles, it is triggering not only because of how I grew up, but it doesn't consider the thought and planning I put into expenditures.

I think many couples are uneven in how they spend money to some degree. I have a friend whose husband is very frugal. She isn't a spendthrift but he is way more frugal than she is. Still, they have been able to talk about money and arrive at agreements better than we are.

I think it may be more about how couples think about and discuss money that reflects the relationship.

Still, it's a matter of choices and preferences. If I had the choice of a $1000 a night hotel room, or spending several nights at a mountain cabin, I'd choose the latter. I can think of a lot of things I'd spend that on. But for your H, it was something he wanted to do.

[Cat Familiar]

I was hoping that the extravagant spending that my husband became able to do a few years ago after he inherited some family money would just be a phase. Instead, I think it's a way that he placates himself for being "unworthy" and feeling "less than".

I'd much rather spend $1000 on graveling the driveway. I've been with him on a couple of these excursions and I don't feel comfortable in a fancy hotel where the doorman knows your last name. It just reeks of pretentiousness. Then you go out on the street and see homeless people. The incongruity is really upsetting to me.

In the hotel elevator you see all these people with money who size you up--trying to figure out if you've got greater or lesser means than they. It's a very weird and unpleasant world in my opinion. And it's not a world that I feel comfortable in, with my work-worn hands and my complete disinterest in fashion. It takes a lot of effort to fit in and it seems like a complete waste of time, energy and money to me.

[Lostindirt]

Cat,

I love this post.  I have been thinking about the line between caring about someone and caring about their feelings because I have trouble with that too.  Somewhere I picked up the nasty codependency habit and am just now seeing what my being "nice"  really is.  So to heck with the icy stare over reasonable expenses.  If the money is there so be it.

I'm trying to decide my personal litmus test for when to care about other people's feelings. Should it be: would it hurt me? or Is this reasonable?  I'm just having trouble defining that.  But it sounds like you are well on your way. 

[Notwendy]

We have friends who are all about a luxury hotel. They spend anniversaries there. It isn't a $1000 a night one, but it is considered high end. We did stay there once overnight and it was nice, but I didn't think it was so much nicer that I would want to go there all the time. Honestly, the room didn't look much different than a regular hotel. The lobby and grounds were gorgeous. It was a nice place, but I didn't get their enthusiasm about it, so much that they love to go there. But we are all different.

[formflier]

it's not my fault and I refuse to be victimized by his selfishness.

This really matches up with my thinking right now... .is coming into play in my current lovely thread over here...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285343.0

It's not my fault if she has promised kids things... .or told school administrators things that haven't been agreed to.

I will have hard conversations and make sure that I am not a "my way or the highway guy"... .but I am not responsible for any other persons irresponsibility or lack of ability to go with a solution that they proposed as acceptable to them.

I'm not going to get mad about it... .and I'm not going to bite my nails or tremble in fear about "what she will do".

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I love what you are doing here.

However the topic title doesn't fit. There is nothing narcissistic about it at all.

This kind of change is about healing, recognizing  your own value, letting go of the fear of abusive criticism especially accusations of being selfish, and being assertive about what you want and what matters to you.

In other words, becoming more healthy.

Any resemblance to narcissistic behavior on your partner's side is a coincidence.

[Notwendy]

GK, you made a good point.

What may feel "selfish" to us is actually taking care of ourselves, and also enjoying the things we have.

It's a balance- neither of the extremes- being completely self centered or ignoring one's needs or wishes is desirable.

I grew up in an imbalanced situation. My mother seemed to be able to buy, spend, acquire whatever she wished. This was fine because my father could afford it. At one point though, there were financial concerns and the result was that the rest of us seemed to be scrimping. I'm not certain of all the details. By the time I was a teen, mom controlled every penny that dad gave me. When I went to college, I was not sure if tuition would be paid or not and money sent to me was inconsistent.

I think this would have been different if the family handled it differently. We were never in dire straits, thankfully. There was enough for our basic needs. I would have understood if my parents discussed the finances for college- I chose an affordable one and worked during school as it was. However, the discrepancy resulted in my feeling less deserving. This isn't something to hold on to.

The bright side of this is that, in the long run, my parents gave me a gift- one of independence, as I was eager to work so that I didn't depend on them financially. It wasn't that they were not generous-they did take care of me- but the unpredictability of my support being influenced by my mother's feelings and decisions was a source of concern for me in high school and college.

[Cat Familiar]

I love what you are doing here.

However the topic title doesn't fit. There is nothing narcissistic about it at all.

This kind of change is about healing, recognizing  your own value, letting go of the fear of abusive criticism especially accusations of being selfish, and being assertive about what you want and what matters to you.

In other words, becoming more healthy.

Any resemblance to narcissistic behavior on your partner's side is a coincidence.

Thanks, Grey Kitty. You are absolutely right; this is about being healthy and advocating for oneself and refusing to believe that is selfishness. I did title this topic with a sense of irony. All my life pwBPD have accused me of being selfish when I was merely taking care of my own needs or enjoying my own interests.

The first time I can remember this happening was when I was about five years old and I was playing on the swings in my backyard. I called out to my mother, who was nearby, just not looking in my direction, to watch a trick I was perfecting and she said, "You're so selfish. You need so much attention." I felt so ashamed.

This "selfish" moniker followed me throughout childhood into my marriages and was an excellent means of control by then because I was so accustomed to abandoning my own needs and wishes in order to not be "selfish". However, the BPD du jour in my life seemed to have no awareness of their own selfishness.

So, by calling my behavior "narcissistic" which seems to be the epitome of self-centered selfishness, I can laughingly cast aside any personal attack upon myself because I've already done it in the most heinous way and have destroyed its effectiveness.

[formflier]

 

I agree the title is not accurate... but I still think it could be helpful

If we "feel" like we are behaving as a narcissist... .then we are probably doing self care "about right"

Remember... .most of us have focused on others instead of ourselves and focusing on ourselves "feels" weird.

Early on in family therapy the mental trick that I learned was to "talk small" when I was responding to my family.  When I thought I was speaking normally... .I was coming out as very dominant... ."commanding"... .

OK... .no eye rolling or chuckles from you guys... .I know I haven't fixed it all yet... .     

But still... .the mental trick really helped.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

By the time I was a teen, mom controlled every penny that dad gave me. When I went to college, I was not sure if tuition would be paid or not and money sent to me was inconsistent.

... .

It wasn't that they were not generous-they did take care of me- but the unpredictability of my support being influenced by my mother's feelings and decisions was a source of concern for me in high school and college.

Notwendy, I'm glad you learned independence from all this, but I gotta say that this was abusive on your parents part.

The abusive part is controlling the money that way, and creating an environment where you didn't know if you would get enough money or not. (If they didn't have the money, and communicated that clearly to you, that would be hard, but not abusive.)

So, by calling my behavior "narcissistic" which seems to be the epitome of self-centered selfishness, I can laughingly cast aside any personal attack upon myself because I've already done it in the most heinous way and have destroyed its effectiveness.

Years ago, gay activists like Dan Savage reclaimed the words like "___" by embracing it instead of being shamed by it, doing something very similar to what you describe.

Good work!

I'd probably stop at claiming the word selfish, rather than going all the way to narcissistic... .but this is your issue, not mine, do whatever works for you 

[Notwendy]

I agree with the emotional abuse GK.

We flew under the radar because we were well taken cared of- we had what we needed materially, and also received great educations. My father spent a lot of time with us, taking us places, and really being a good parent to us.

Something shifted at adolescence. This is pretty typical from what I have read. To start, I "outgrew" my mother emotionally. I also was very attached to my father. I also had "had it" with her behavior and disliked her. She perceived me as an adversary. I was already the black child and this was even more pronounced when I became a teen.

Dad was between a rock and a hard place. I had to come to terms with why he didn't stand up for me. However, strangely, I think he knew that by my late teens,  I could stand on my own two feet. Although I was affected by family dysfunction, I was not living in it. This doesn't excuse his behavior, but I think it played into it.

By this time, my mother's moods and feelings had dominated the family. Mom's perception was that people were on "sides". This applied to family and friends. They were either on her side, or not. She had placed me on the other side. I didn't live at home. So this kind of long distance abuse to me didn't affect him, but his daily life was with my mother. When having to choose between my feelings and hers, he chose hers.

I think in a strong marriage, the bond between the spouses should be strong. He should care for her feelings first. But in emotionally healthy families, the parents both care for the kids too, and don't make it a "me or them" situation.

[Lostindirt]

The issue with the title is interesting  . I know I definitely feel this dumb shame when sticking up for myself, and it's like I am always second guess I guessing if I handled situations right.  Or I feel like I need to give others the benefit of the doubt in situations where I feel mistreated and/or abused.  I find this happening with most points of conflict or disagreement with people, especially acquaintances and work relationships.

[Cat Familiar]

Grey Kitty said, "I'd probably stop at claiming the word selfish, rather than going all the way to narcissistic... .but this is your issue, not mine, do whatever works for you."

It's funny, but "selfish" still is a trigger for me. Perhaps I feel like it fits too well. "Narcissistic" is so extreme that it's kind of funny to think of myself that way.

Lostindirt said, "I know I definitely feel this dumb shame when sticking up for myself, and it's like I am always second guess I guessing if I handled situations right.  Or I feel like I need to give others the benefit of the doubt in situations where I feel mistreated and/or abused.  I find this happening with most points of conflict or disagreement with people, especially acquaintances and work relationships."



I think many of us "nons" have been trained from a very early age to be self-critical and to give others the benefit of doubt. The problem is that tendency now bites us in the butt. That is also why we're such good targets for pwBPD at the beginning when they are heaping loads of praise and validation upon us.

[waverider]

A compromised sense of self preservation buts us behind the eight ball when interacting with the self obsessed.

We worry too much about making a foul shot, they have no such inhibition, they will merely distract you while they do.