Are BPDs easily manipulated?

[Hopeful83]

Hi guys,

Just a general question really: are BPDs easily manipulated or was that just a trait that my ex had?

My ex's mum was a master manipulator. Just a very silly example but the first one that comes to mind: last year when we went to visit them, he'd broken his phone and needed a replacement. His mum said they'd buy him a new one as a gift, which I initially thought was a lovely idea. My ex wanted a particular model; he'd spent the month before we'd arrived at his parents' saying how much he loved this phone, that his friend had one and said it was great, and that he was going to get it because he knew it was exactly what he needed (the phone had the advantage of being waterproof and shatterproof, which was ideal seeing as we were travelling long term at the time).  

His mum, however, wanted him to get an iPhone. And I know why - so that she could show off and say that they'd bought their son an iPhone. May sound silly, but labels and image are BIG in his home country, and what kind of phone you buy says something about your status. He wanted a Sony - not as impressive in their eyes.

So she started manipulating him, trying to get him to see that the iPhone was better. At the start he was still insistent that he wanted the Sony. They went to the shop together to see the price, and while there the mum said "let's also see the iPhone then seeing as we're here." and the manipulation continued. This went on for TWO WHOLE WEEKS, guys. The to'ing, the fro'ing. He wanted the Sony, but slowly and surely she started to change his mind. He got into such a muddle that he started asking me to which I replied "Honey, get whatever phone YOU want." He was still undecided. But she (and the brother - they put him to work, too) kept underhandedly pushing him in the direction of the iPhone. At the time the whole thing started to sicken me, it was that bad.

His mum then tried to get me to do her dirty work. "Tell him the iPhone is better," to which I replied "He should get whatever he wants." Obviously, that wasn't the answer she wanted.

Long story short, she got her way in the end. He bought the iPhone. I was utterly flabbergasted at the time and she was GLOWING with happiness when he got the bloody iPhone because she had succeeded. I definitely got a valuable insight into their dynamic with this incident. I just couldn't believe a) how manipulative she was and b) how susceptible he was to that manipulation. In my eyes she should have just bought him the iPhone, but instead, she made out that she'd given him a choice, when in fact she just wanted him to have what she wanted him to have.

I just wondered if it was common? I know that to a great extent we broke up because of the manipulation that he received from his delightful mother (his family clearly didn't want him to marry a white woman) and at the time I couldn't believe that he could walk away so easily considering how 'good' I thought things were. Once I learnt about BPD a lot of things made sense - wondering if being susceptible to manipulation is also a trait? Or if any of this resonates with any of you?

Thanks guys,

Hopeful

Note: my ex was 26 at the time. Not exactly the age at which you should be this easily manipulated.

[saintgrey]

I think so, more because lack of boundaries.

Btw i don't think age makes any difference.

[Hopeful83]

I think so, more because lack of boundaries.

Btw i don't think age makes any difference.

Yeah. I guess I mentioned age because I thought that with age you have a stronger sense of who you are and are less likely to get talked into things that you don't want to do.

It's sad. On the one hand he'd try and be assertive, on the other he'd cave because of something someone had said. Especially his family - they had a massive hold over him. I just assumed it was a cultural thing at the time.

Hopeful

[C.Stein]

I believe my ex could be easily manipulated, which was a big concern for me. 

[Hopeful83]

I believe my ex could be easily manipulated, which was a big concern for me. 

By whom? Friends? Family? All of the above?

[C.Stein]

I believe my ex could be easily manipulated, which was a big concern for me. 

By whom? Friends? Family? All of the above?

All of the above.

[Herodias]

I think so... .but just temporarily. Mine would listen to people opinions and get swayed... .but eventually make his own decision. The problem was when he got swayed to do "bad" things. Like cheat, buy into pyramid schemes, fall for advertising, spent $1000 on meat out of a meat truck from salesmen! ... .these things would really cause havoc in the marriage. Especially watching all these married women at work cheat! He would tell me, "if I ever cheat on you, it will be like a woman!"

[Mutt]

Hi Hopeful83,

I can see how it would seem like manipulation, honestly it sounds like enmeshment. A pwBPD often have poor personal boundaries and have difficulties understanding boundaries of others, a pwBPD in the family don't know where they end and the other family members begin, mothers and family members may be enmeshed.

Borderline mothers also tend to be clingy with their kids. I think that the status of the phone was a reflection of her self image. Christine Lawson Ph.D. has a good book on the insight of borderline mothers and the affects of her children if you're interested.

Understanding the Borderline Mother

[Teereese]

Yes, my ex was easily manipulated through his own manipulation.

He used friends, family and even total strangers and was used by them in return.

If he wanted to do something, he used other peoples' thoughts and opinions to justify doing so. He set it up so he could blame them. He also made them his "new" best friend. They generally did not have or protect their boundaries.

If someone did not agree with him or give him the thought.or opinion he wanted ... .they were cut out and painted black. Generally, those would be people with boundaries.

He had horrible personal boundaries and did not respect others' boundaries. Honestly, boundaries did not exist in his world.

[thisagain]

Another angle is that they can be easily manipulated because of their intense need for validation. My ex absolutely could not distinguish between someone who actually valued her (me) and someone who was praising her in a way that was exaggerated and not genuine. In fact she'd rather have the fake validation. That left her vulnerable to manipulation, and frankly to grooming by predators.

[Hopeful83]

Thanks everyone.

Hi Hopeful83,

I can see how it would seem like manipulation, honestly it sounds like enmeshment. A pwBPD often have poor personal boundaries and have difficulties understanding boundaries of others, a pwBPD in the family don't know where they end and the other family members begin, mothers and family members may be enmeshed.

Borderline mothers also tend to be clingy with their kids. I think that the status of the phone was a reflection of her self image. Christine Lawson Ph.D. has a good book on the insight of borderline mothers and the affects of her children if you're interested.

Understanding the Borderline Mother

Interesting. I'll look into it.

Him and his mother certainly didn't have healthy boundaries. While we were travelling long term, she would Skype him at least three times a week for an hour each time. He was like a little puppet on her strings, and she couldn't stand it if he ever did things that she didn't agree with.

I think part of the reason that she wasn't keen on me being in his life is that she tried to manipulate him through me a few times but I didn't cooperate.

Sad.

[Svarl1]

My undiagnosed partner exhibited many BPD behaviours,  but is generally far from manipulable.

In fact she tends to have a cynical view of most other people. When someone behaves without total integrity, transparency and decisiveness, she will often interprete this as a deliberate attempt to manipulate or "get one over".  Even in many situations where others might give the benefit of the doubt, or consider the behaviour more thoughtless than deliberately malicious.

I doubt whether anyone is painted white in her world.

[Gonzalo]

You have to remember that pwBPD don't have a strong sense of self, so they'll often mirror things that people around them do, seek validation, and have poor boundaries. My ex- had some weird personality shifts. She wasn't very politically active normally, but one day spontaneously told me that she wanted to join some protests and get arrested, and acted like I was being completely unreasonable I said that I wasn't going to put my clean criminal record at risk. Much later, when I actually understood BPD, I realized that this happened shortly after she started working on a presentation with a woman who is a very shrill social justice type, and that she was just mirroring the new person's attitude. If I had sat down and tried to talk her into something like that, I'm sure she would have resisted.

[Hopeful83]

You have to remember that pwBPD don't have a strong sense of self, so they'll often mirror things that people around them do, seek validation, and have poor boundaries. My ex- had some weird personality shifts. She wasn't very politically active normally, but one day spontaneously told me that she wanted to join some protests and get arrested, and acted like I was being completely unreasonable I said that I wasn't going to put my clean criminal record at risk. Much later, when I actually understood BPD, I realized that this happened shortly after she started working on a presentation with a woman who is a very shrill social justice type, and that she was just mirroring the new person's attitude. If I had sat down and tried to talk her into something like that, I'm sure she would have resisted.

Yeah I guess this is why I guess some BPDs appear to be impressionable, or their ideology seems to sway from one extreme to the other.

If my ex is indeed BPD it would explain why when he was with me he didn't feel the need to tow the family line and be the good boy they expected him to be - marry a local girl, live close by to the family etc.

I did wonder why it seemed he swayed so quickly and easily once he got home. It was like he underwent a complete personality transplant in the space of weeks. It baffled me.

[Gonzalo]

I did wonder why it seemed he swayed so quickly and easily once he got home. It was like he underwent a complete personality transplant in the space of weeks. It baffled me.

Big personality shifts when switching a set of friends, or relationship, or moving are really common from everything I've read about BPD. My ex- talked about how she had almost completely different lifestyles in several relationships - in one she and her BF did a lot of drugs and lived under the radar, in another she wanted to do the 'married, 1.5 kids, picket fence' scenario, in another she was going to be more of a career woman, and so on. People in general shift their goals as they go through life, but these were abrupt, severe terms, not gradual change in goals or a realization of something that had been wrong.

One of the personality changes that stands to me is a small one - when we were first together I mentioned that I would often get sad on Valentine's day. I was really kind of thinking we could do something with it to make it happy, but when heard this and said that she had always disliked he holiday and would rather we just ignored it except for cheap chocolate on the 15th. I figured that was cool and had one less thing to keep track of, if she didn't like the holiday and I didn't like the holiday then ignoring it was a plan. But after we broke up and she moved on to her replacement, I saw a post from her that she had done a big all day Valentine's blowout party with several people, food, and so on, and how much she had always loved that special day to celebrate connections with people.

With what I know now, it's clear that she was actually mirroring me when she said she didn't like the holiday (though she got my opinion of it a bit wrong, which was common). And that while she might have liked the holiday a bit, the new extreme enthusiasm was probably mirroring her new partner's preferences, not something innate she had been holding back.