Pre-filing mediation strategy

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This is currently PRE-filing for parenting time mod for DH.

In our county, you have to take a kids/divorce class before mediation, whether the mediation is pre- or post- filing and whether court-ordered or not. Mom has known about this for 2 weeks but she's saying she & stepdad can't afford it, and are looking into a low income assistance thing for the class.

The county does not offer $ assistance until AFTER somebody files. We wouldn't be surprised that even if the $ were magically available, Mom & Stepdad would be "too busy" for the class, to say nothing of the actual mediation. Also, in our county, the class must be taken within X days of mediation -- any longer and I assume you have to take it again. So, questions for the group... .

Pre-filing, how long does DH wait for Mom to take the class? I get that it'd be a low move to say "Well, it's been 3 days, time's up" -- but honestly, at what point can DH just say enough is enough, Mom's delay of X days makes it clear she isn't interested. And because this would be pre filing, how would a judge see Mom's delay?

DH has a date to take the class. Is it worth it for him to take it no matter what mom does, because it communicates that he wants to mediate even when not court ordered? Or, again, because this is pre filing, does it even matter? Would a judge take pre-filing attempts to mediate with Mom into account in any way?

Is it more worth it for DH to just file, get the mediation court ordered, and go from there? Or does it help his case that he is reasonable and low conflict for him to try to make pre filing mediation happen?

It just seems like Mom is once again making this a double bind -- DH is the "bad guy" if he files right away, but Mom wins the kids' minds even more if DH waits on her.

[kells76]

This is currently PRE-filing for parenting time mod for DH.

In our county, you have to take a kids/divorce class before mediation, whether the mediation is pre- or post- filing and whether court-ordered or not. Mom has known about this for 2 weeks but she's saying she & stepdad can't afford it, and are looking into a low income assistance thing for the class.

The county does not offer $ assistance until AFTER somebody files. We wouldn't be surprised that even if the $ were magically available, Mom & Stepdad would be "too busy" for the class, to say nothing of the actual mediation. Also, in our county, the class must be taken within X days of mediation -- any longer and I assume you have to take it again. So, questions for the group... .

Pre-filing, how long does DH wait for Mom to take the class? I get that it'd be a low move to say "Well, it's been 3 days, time's up" -- but honestly, at what point can DH just say enough is enough, Mom's delay of X days makes it clear she isn't interested. And because this would be pre filing, how would a judge see Mom's delay?

DH has a date to take the class. Is it worth it for him to take it no matter what mom does, because it communicates that he wants to mediate even when not court ordered? Or, again, because this is pre filing, does it even matter? Would a judge take pre-filing attempts to mediate with Mom into account in any way?

Is it more worth it for DH to just file, get the mediation court ordered, and go from there? Or does it help his case that he is reasonable and low conflict for him to try to make pre filing mediation happen?

It just seems like Mom is once again making this a double bind -- DH is the "bad guy" if he files right away, but Mom wins the kids' minds even more if DH waits on her.

[ForeverDad]

My gut feeling is that he should do what he should do.  Not aggressively fast, but not timidly turtle slow either.  There are dangers in overthinking things.  What should be straightforward becomes complicated with all sorts of what-if and what-then scenarios.  So if she fails to comply with a step or two, he just proceeds with what is appropriate.  Ex will cast him as Mr Evil Personified anyway no matter how thoughtful and patient he is or what he does or doesn't do.

Odds are the court won't care too much what either one does, how much he follows procedure or how little she follows procedure.

[bravhart1]

I've read and re read your post several times and I'm not sure I get it.

Dad wants to do mediation but it's not ordered yet? If you file for mediation then you have to take the class and he wants to do the class before asking for mediation?

He's trying to take the class before asking  for mediation so he understands what he's asking for or to appear informed?

[kells76]

Hey bravhart1, thanks for bearing with all my questions. Hope you guys are hanging in there.

Basically, in our county, you can't just do county mediation, you HAVE to take a pre-mediation "kids first" style class, and you HAVE to take it no more than 90 days before mediation. So it's like there's this extra step to navigate even before getting to the mediation table.

It's not ordered yet. L thought it'd be good to try before having it ordered.

If DH files the PP modification, then mediation would be ordered as the next step if Mom disputes the PP (which she likely would). If mediation is ordered, same deal -- everyone has to take the class no more than 90 days befor mediation.

If we could get out of taking the class, we would. It's currently just lengthening the process. But it's required either way. It costs $ either way, too.

DH is only trying to take the class to make mediation happen.

Update: Stepdad wrote to say they would set aside $ for taking the class next month. Progress? Maybe?

FD, that's a good reminder to not rush things. It's hard when both of us fear what Mom will do to the kids in the meantime. She's turning the heat up on them about thanksgiving already -- trying to get them to tell DH they don't want extra time with him, while at the same time Mom says in email she has "no problem with the kids spending a little extra time" with him.

[david]

Mom's email says she is fine with letting DH have extra time. Pin that down with specific time in an email. The paper trail may be useful later on. Always remember that all emails will probably be seen by the judge and respond accordingly.

My ex hates emails and that is the only way I will communicate. She can't change her mind or say she didn't say that, etc. I stay focused on the kids in all my responses. That took time, patience, and practice. It does get easier. My ex still attacks me in her emails. She went off on me last week. She actually sent an email to her atty saying she wants to revisit custody because she thinks I have too much time with them. She cc'd the email to me. I believe it was an attempt to upset me or get me to react. I did not respond and saved it in a folder.

The mediation has to be timed ? If that is the case then you need to take it in the prescribed timeline or you will have to take it again. If you take it and file later mom might be able to drag things out past the 90 days. You may be able to stipulate that you get credited for that time even if it is past 90 days. That would probably have to be done in court and the judge and mom would both have to agree. You would have to find that out from your atty. You need to plan that out accordingly.

Our county doesn't have that specifically but they do let things drag out. I learned to use that to my advantage. I kept gathering more evidence during that time. Every email I send is business like and only about our boys.

The last time we were supposed to go in front of a judge ex agreed to everything I was seeking before the judge entered the courtroom. The only thing ex wanted was two additional days for the upcoming holiday. It was only for that one time. I agreed since it was a one time thing. I think ex's atty had to "win" something for her client.

[bravhart1]

I think as long as ex has said they will take it next month, you guys should go for it.

Thanks for explaining.

Good luck with your upcoming case, I think dad has been more than patient with BPDm and its time for her to let them have a relationship. 

[ForeverDad]

This is my year for Thanksgiving according to my county's holiday schedule.  Do DH and his Ex follow a holiday schedule?  What do Fathers get this year in your county's holiday schedule?  If it says Father, then he has some real Leverage to push for now, it's very easy to get court to order compliance with such a standard arrangement.  Can DH get her to commit in advance to what "a little extra time" is?  If it's literally just a few hours then he can cite the county's standard holiday schedule and say they they should start following it now.  If she refuses, then that is something to document and view as a boundary to establish sooner rather than later.

[kells76]

Hi FD;

There is no official holiday schedule. Big change to make in new PP. Current practice is that Mom gets them on major holidays every year, no alternation. DH is pushing for some extra time Thxgvg week; Mom has already opposed some of it in email at the same time as writing that she has no problem with them spending a little extra time with him. Logic!

Once new PP is filed DH wants standard alternation. Depending on what Mom writes back about DH's next Thxgvg sched suggestion, yes, it might be a good move for him to propose following the standard sched now. Would then be interesting to hear her try to defend getting Christmas too this year.

Overall, I think DH is doing way better than he was at not reacting. Mom keeps saying she "has to check with Stepdad" about the kids spending time with DH. DH wanted to call her on that but decided to stick to logistics. Hope the fact that Mom keeps saying she has to involve stepdad is a poor move on her part.

[david]

I went to court for more time years ago. The judge decided that both parents had two weeks to submit a schedule. He would then decide. Ex sent a paper ranting about me being too rigid and that things should not change at all. I handed in a paper with every holiday for an entire year. It included extended school holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter), inservices, etc. The extended holidays are not an even number and I made it 50/50 so I also said that the additional day would be rotated year to year. It took a week of thinking it through.

I also included that any changes from the court order would be done through email. Both parents had to agree in an email exchange to make a change. Once a change was made it could only be changed by another email agreement by both parents. This worked very well.

The judge copied my paper word for word. He made no changes and added nothing additional.

I usually let ex make the schedule for the holidays. It gives her the "control" she needs. I usually agree as long as it follows our order. I have to count the days because ex apparently has difficulty splitting the holidays 50/50.   If her schedule is too confusing I will not agree and then give a suggestion. Ex usually makes a minor change and then it is finalized. Example, several years ago ex wanted to make the Christmas holiday switch day to day. I simply replied that I didn't think that would be in our kids best interest and suggested we split it so there is only one exchange. She changed it to just two and I agreed.