Just need to vent and get advice

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

His last flip out was July 12, 2015. He BPDH threatened to leave, move home to Hawaii the following day, and tried to shut down our business. I found texts to his friends and emails about how do I shut this business down. His explanation: he was going to sign it over to me - bull. After him screaming about a business created in love and a marriage and how that's over so the business is over. I had to write several brides for the confusion that it was okay there was just a bloop in our email system.

The next day he was apologizing, crying, asking for forgiveness. He finally got enrolled in therapy with a Bpd specialist. That therapist helped. Then he is now in a DBT program twice a week for a total of three hours, for a total of six months straight.

It had been a little over 4 months, but it is slowing reverting back to his past behaviors as it usually does cycle through every 60-90 days. I was hopeful. His therapist told me to communicate how I feel that it is okay. So today I tried that. Fail. My therapist has me take notes on his upsets so here is what happened today.

Nov. 27:  trying to show him new techniques or new recipes with baking. It's very hard. Every time I know it's going to be hard because I have to let him know methods or correct processes on how to do the job. He gets very angry when I don't just say he's perfect. I have effectively trained many individuals since I was 17. He didn't do one part of the tarts correctly, I showed him he didn't need to do that and how to do it. He got very mad. Said he was having a good time and I was ruining it. I said, that's an added step you don't need I want to teach you correctly. I then told him I need him to respond better to my teaching him and that it's very hard to teach him new things because this is the outcome. He then blamed me for not teaching him the right way. That my teaching methods are ineffective. I then said that I trained my cousin and he does a great job. Then he went on to say that I am saying he is doing a bad job a not good job and how wonderful my cousin is and how he should just stop working and threw whatever he was holding down onto the table. I said no, I didn't say you were bad, or not doing good I am saying I have effectively trained other people and their work is good. His response oh wow so I'm different than other people you've trained. Are you trying to escalate the situation? I said, I'm not the one escalating. Yes you're right it's my fault everything is my fault. I'm wrong yore right. I don't want to talk about this anymore I'm done. Thanks for invalidating my feeling. I went to the room and closed the door. This is why I don't communicate how I feel about anything. This is where it brings me.


I'm losing hope again. I was finally slipping out of the depression and now I feel like I'm falling back in. I want to cry very easily whenever anyone shows me kindness or gives me kind words. I feel like I am crumbling. Please help. I don't want to get divorced I don't want to start over. But I'm in a loveless marriage. I could even safely state when he behaves like this I hate him.

[Thread]

His last flip out was July 12, 2015. He BPDH threatened to leave, move home to Hawaii the following day, and tried to shut down our business. I found texts to his friends and emails about how do I shut this business down. His explanation: he was going to sign it over to me - bull. After him screaming about a business created in love and a marriage and how that's over so the business is over. I had to write several brides for the confusion that it was okay there was just a bloop in our email system.

The next day he was apologizing, crying, asking for forgiveness. He finally got enrolled in therapy with a Bpd specialist. That therapist helped. Then he is now in a DBT program twice a week for a total of three hours, for a total of six months straight.

It had been a little over 4 months, but it is slowing reverting back to his past behaviors as it usually does cycle through every 60-90 days. I was hopeful. His therapist told me to communicate how I feel that it is okay. So today I tried that. Fail. My therapist has me take notes on his upsets so here is what happened today.

Nov. 27:  trying to show him new techniques or new recipes with baking. It's very hard. Every time I know it's going to be hard because I have to let him know methods or correct processes on how to do the job. He gets very angry when I don't just say he's perfect. I have effectively trained many individuals since I was 17. He didn't do one part of the tarts correctly, I showed him he didn't need to do that and how to do it. He got very mad. Said he was having a good time and I was ruining it. I said, that's an added step you don't need I want to teach you correctly. I then told him I need him to respond better to my teaching him and that it's very hard to teach him new things because this is the outcome. He then blamed me for not teaching him the right way. That my teaching methods are ineffective. I then said that I trained my cousin and he does a great job. Then he went on to say that I am saying he is doing a bad job a not good job and how wonderful my cousin is and how he should just stop working and threw whatever he was holding down onto the table. I said no, I didn't say you were bad, or not doing good I am saying I have effectively trained other people and their work is good. His response oh wow so I'm different than other people you've trained. Are you trying to escalate the situation? I said, I'm not the one escalating. Yes you're right it's my fault everything is my fault. I'm wrong yore right. I don't want to talk about this anymore I'm done. Thanks for invalidating my feeling. I went to the room and closed the door. This is why I don't communicate how I feel about anything. This is where it brings me.


I'm losing hope again. I was finally slipping out of the depression and now I feel like I'm falling back in. I want to cry very easily whenever anyone shows me kindness or gives me kind words. I feel like I am crumbling. Please help. I don't want to get divorced I don't want to start over. But I'm in a loveless marriage. I could even safely state when he behaves like this I hate him.

[livednlearned]

Hi Hanging,

That's really meaningful that he was willing to be diagnosed and is in DBT therapy. 

It's not uncommon for people to get worse before they get better during DBT or any kind of therapy. That goes for us, not just people with BPD. Things can start to get raw and real, and coping mechanisms fire up in response. Do you think your H might be doing some work in T that he is having a harder time processing?

It sounds like you may also have a tendency toward perfectionism  and it has helped you be successful in your business, and you want your H to live up to those standards. Learning something new can be very vulnerable, and he was willing to put himself out there with you, and his need for validation, which is already very high because of BPD, became even higher. He was trying to manage shame and vulnerability, you were trying to get him to make the perfect tart. Those are two very different pages.

You don't have to tell him he's perfect. That's your standard, not his. He is looking for validation that his efforts are worthy, that he's worthy, that his contributions are needed and necessary to the family business.

Be gentle with yourself. You are running a business with your partner -- not easy. And he has BPD -- that's difficult. You're running a business with your BPD husband -- super hard!

Are you learning any DBT skills while your H is in therapy?

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Livenlearned

Yes you could say I'm a perfectionist, our job is to be a perfectionist, however it was his first time physically making the tart, he watched, but never did... .In our industry you watch, then you do, then the chef corrects your errors, then the third time you do it yourself... .That's the process, my BPDH doesn't want the critique... .We made our wedding treats together and he was so mad that what I did was better than his he stood in the corner and pouted... .I didn't know what Bpd was or that he had it! But now t all makes sense.

I do however appreciate and believe your explanation to be right on point. He needs to feel to be an asset and needs to feel validated as important. It's funny because he complains about being tired so I take on the Bulk of the business so he can rest, but then it's a vicious cycle, he feels insecure, then he puts me down, so it's like do I take on the load so he can rest or be lazy so he doesn't feel insignificant? And this seems to be my mental struggle on a daily basis. This is where I lose myself.

I will be going to DBT therapy with him every so often. I went to my first meeting last week and will probably try to go this week because I'm losing it. I have noticed the  last two weeks my Bpd h starting to unravel. It's causing my PTSD and depression to come back. Nightmares are the first signs I'm freaking out - dreams of him or my family screaming at me. Not fun.

I understand the validation thing, obviously not well practiced, but it is very hard when trying to teach new things he is always on high defense, but I've never had someone put me down so much because they feel insecure. So much. And it's a terrible feeling. The smallest things like when we are working in front of people he doesn't like to show that I'm the main Brian's of the operation, so he will start bossing me around about things that 1. I know how to do or 2. Don't really need to be said and as I'm working I'm thinking to myself do I just do what he's telling me to to heal his ego or do I not follow his demands because he's being out of line? Either way I enable or I cause a fight.

[livednlearned]

You have a lot on your shoulders -- running a business, not to mention PTSD and depression. It's really hard! Do you take time to care for yourself? Is there something small you can do for yourself, something you used to do but gave up?

It can be so helpful to have a shared language like DBT for the two of you, a reference point for when things start to feel hairy. I found validation was essential, too. Even when it wasn't effective all the time, it sort of shifted the landscape. My favorite book on the topic is I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundbergs. We have an excerpt here on the validation questions that can be particularly useful. I think the validation questions helped because somehow it stopped me from my tendency to rescue/fix/control, and that lightened my load a bunch. I am a creature of habit, and also have a perfectionist streak, and for some reason having a bunch of questions in my toolkit was a game changer. I would hear a tone in my voice and stop, pause for a second, and cue up a validating question.

Do you think something like this might work for you?

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Yes I think this will be wonderfully useful!

I do, I make sure to take time for myself at least one day a week. And rest well one day a week since I work pretty much 12-17 hour days.

Hanging out with my friends was something I wasn't doing before, but I do face quiet treatments when I return home or difficulties before leaving from my Bpd H. We moved back to my home town to help with my anxiety/depression (this was before I knew my h Bpd and his characteristics where part of the issues) anyway since being home all my old friends want to hang out and get to know my husband, his recent statement to me, "I don't have the time, nor am I interested in being friends with any of your friends. You have way too many guy friends it's weird."

However even my married friends (girls) and their families want to hang out and he refuses. It's hard to have to explain that to them. I also have to protect certain friends from him and vice versa so that they don't dislike each other because of his jealousy toward them and their relationship with me - yes even girlfriends. Anyone who shows me love and care is a possible threat to my marriage in his eyes. Also, my mentors he feels threatened that they are trying to get in or take the business from him. (None of them have personal ties to it, they just want to see me, and us, succeed.)

[livednlearned]

It's tough when your partner is jealous. You moved back home to take care of yourself, and now, in taking care of yourself (being with friends), he is struggling. Do you notice yourself changing your behavior to accommodate him?

How do you think it would go to have a conversation about boundaries?

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Yes, now that I'm not as needy or focused on him and taking care of myself he is struggling, but even when I was in the pits he was struggling. Before I even met him k believe he was struggling. I just didn't realize the things he was doing were Bpd until now.

And yes,I've changed my behavior to accommodate him.

I don't hang out with my guy friends. One of my friends I've know since I was 12 (now 30) does mma fighting. I try to always go support him when I can, he fights maybe 3 times a year locally. Anyhow I don't go anymore because my h Bpd wouldn't want to go or to see and or meet all my other friends I've know for over a decade.

I used to accomadate him by giving him the reigns and more control, it worked for a bit, but he got very demanding and controlling, however I am learning now that was a bad idea and part of his gas-lighting. I am in a lot more control now.

I used to ignore his rude comments, now I stand up for myself better and let him know i don't like the comments being made. Or I will ask if it was it necessary to put me down. Often while speaking to him he just walks away. I have to be like hi, I'm taking to you can you please respond to me. (Not nagging about stuff like actually taking to him about my day).

I still keep my social outings to the days he's in therapy and stuck in traffic so it's kind of out of his sight out of his mind. If I do hang out with my guy friends it's always with other people never alone... .He still doesn't like it. i really miss some of my friends - I only hang out with the husband approved friends. Not that he actually approves of one or the other, it's just the ones he is less angry about when I say I'm hanging out with them.

I was going to ask him to tell his DBT therapist tomorrow to let me join the following week.i don't feel like I can have "I feel... " Conversations with him especially since I can tell he's on edge as of recent. I feel like it needs to be with a 3rd party. Having any discussion about my feelings never is easy.

I cried when I met his therapist two weeks ago,... Balled. Told her I noticed things getting prickly and that it's bringing back the depression and PTSD nightmares. She told me by not saying anything was invalidating my feelings, so I was applauded for sharing something that is obviously so hard for me. But when he had his outburst this last weekend, I tried to tell him it's really jar for me to teach you new things because you end up attacking me and putting me down... It only escalated the event. I don't ever feel able to discuss real things with him.