We agreed that I would give her time and space for a month

[MapleBob]

My story is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286047.0

I haven't spoken to my ex in a few weeks. We agreed that I would give her time and space for a month, but the time is coming up where the month will be over and we'll have a phone conversation again. Long story short: it's been a confusing rollercoaster of alternately hearing from her that she "wants to be allowed to love me again", "wants to be friends/family", and "wants to care less."  

Anyway, after a month of very low contact in October, then a dramatic, confusing pseudo-fight on the phone, then a month of no contact, I'm feeling like I'm approaching "done" with her. I still have feelings and wishes and dreams and desires related to her - and I'd love to have a nice, moving-forward kind of talk with her, but I'm honestly scared to talk to her, after our last conversation spiraled out of control.

Does anyone have advice about holding your ground with a BPD as a non, while continuing to be validating and calm? Or about actually being friends with one despite them pushing away (but not too far away)? I'm on the fence still. I'd love to recover this relationship, but I have my doubts.

[livednlearned]

Hi MapleBob,

When the emotional part of our brains hit the ceiling, that makes it hard for our more problem-solving oriented half of the brain to help us think. With people who have BPD, that emotional side of the brain hits the roof very easily. BPD sufferers are more easily triggered and it takes them much longer to return to baseline. As others have said before, intimacy itself can be very triggering. In many ways, your ex is taking care of herself by pacing these conversations so that she is not feeling so triggered all the time.

I agree with baby ducks in your other post that talking about your relationship status with your ex, and demanding or expecting some kind of agreement, may in fact be perpetuating the push/pull, at the very least it could be aggravating it. I'm not BPD, and even so, when I began dating my current partner (also not BPD), it made me feel anxious if he tried to make things go faster than the very very very slow paint drying pace I wanted our relationship to go.

It is hard in BPD relationships to take a step back and examine ourselves because the anxiety often in these relationships compels us to move closer to our loved one, even (or especially) when they are pushing us away. This can be as simple as "how am I feeling when she does not contact me" or "why am I feeling so upset in this conversation," and choosing to reflect and respond instead of react (a tenet of mindfulness).

How do you think the conversation would go if you allowed the conversation to focus on neutral topics instead of the relationship status?

[MapleBob]

I heard from her tonight! We're talking on December 6th. Pretty short, tactical text conversation, but I asked her if she had anything in mind for our talk and she said: "Ha. That's a hard question to answer. There's always things on my mind." Hoo boy.

A few things have changed, actually, and I think that the remaining changes that need to be made are hopeful ones. At the very least we each definitely have a very different understanding of the situation than we did months ago. I just don't know if she's there. She's probably not, and I don't know if she will be.

In many ways, your ex is taking care of herself by pacing these conversations so that she is not feeling so triggered all the time.

That *does* fit very well with what she tells me. Actual quote: "I really believe that this will kill me before it kills you," along with the "you're more dedicated, and nicer, and more capable, and better at this than I am!" stuff that she says.

I agree with baby ducks in your other post that talking about your relationship status with your ex, and demanding or expecting some kind of agreement, may in fact be perpetuating the push/pull, at the very least it could be aggravating it. I'm not BPD, and even so, when I began dating my current partner (also not BPD), it made me feel anxious if he tried to make things go faster than the very very very slow paint drying pace I wanted our relationship to go.

I want to say that I would be okay with moving slowly, as long as we were moving! Our level of engagement is intentionally sparse, and that's hard on me. It's a sacrifice. I mean, that's really the question here: is this relationship meeting my needs, or how long can I wait patiently and lovingly until it does? Will it ever? But I really do feel like it's best to drop the pressure. I have some conflicting instincts, I guess.

How do you think the conversation would go if you allowed the conversation to focus on neutral topics instead of the relationship status?

I find it almost impossible to believe that a conversation between us that doesn't at least touch on relationship status is even possible. She takes it there as often as I do, like she expects me to have a solution or some kind of new wisdom to sprinkle around about it. She's pretty cautious about what she *gives* to those parts of the conversation, but she's always been very curious to hear what I have to say. Then it devolves from there. Avoiding those topics all together would be difficult, and it's equally possible that being seen to avoid them might set her off too.

[livednlearned]

that's really the question here: is this relationship meeting my needs, or how long can I wait patiently and lovingly until it does? Will it ever? But I really do feel like it's best to drop the pressure. I have some conflicting instincts, I guess.

You feel it's best to drop the pressure... .and yet you're struggling to do this when you're in conversation with her. Understandable! Learning how to improve our communication skills takes practice.

I find it almost impossible to believe that a conversation between us that doesn't at least touch on relationship status is even possible. She takes it there as often as I do, like she expects me to have a solution or some kind of new wisdom to sprinkle around about it.

Do you want to focus on this one thing for now? This would entail learning how to gently divert the conversation when she tests to see if you are willing to engage. First, though, you have to be clear that you don't want to engage. This is a boundary you set for yourself, not a boundary to control her.

Is this something you feel ready to do?

[MapleBob]

Do you want to focus on this one thing for now? This would entail learning how to gently divert the conversation when she tests to see if you are willing to engage. First, though, you have to be clear that you don't want to engage. This is a boundary you set for yourself, not a boundary to control her.

Is this something you feel ready to do?

It's this awful catch-22 where I really do *want* to talk about the relationship and process and get clear with each other, but another part of me sees that it gets us nowhere good, because she triggers easily (and sometimes I do too). That just isn't working. Not yet anyway. And when we're not talking for a solid month at a time (so that she has time/space/etc.) it's hard to imagine not checking in about our relationship in those rare instances when we connect.

[valet]

Do you want to focus on this one thing for now? This would entail learning how to gently divert the conversation when she tests to see if you are willing to engage. First, though, you have to be clear that you don't want to engage. This is a boundary you set for yourself, not a boundary to control her.

Is this something you feel ready to do?

It's this awful catch-22 where I really do *want* to talk about the relationship and process and get clear with each other, but another part of me sees that it gets us nowhere good, because she triggers easily (and sometimes I do too). That just isn't working. Not yet anyway. And when we're not talking for a solid month at a time (so that she has time/space/etc.) it's hard to imagine not checking in about our relationship in those rare instances when we connect.

I see what you're saying. It makes perfect sense that you'd want to see where the two of you stood, especially after not talking for a period of time.

To me, it definitely sounds like you need to find your center independently of her and your relationship status. In hindsight, when I was going through a similar push/pull cycle with my pwBPD, I realize that I could have given myself a lot more mental space. When I did, my ex didn't seem so out of sorts.

This is definitely a difficult thing to get good at, though. Are you seeing a T at all? That might be a good place to start.

[MapleBob]

This is definitely a difficult thing to get good at, though. Are you seeing a T at all? That might be a good place to start.

I did see my therapist again about this, about a month ago. I've done pretty extensive therapy work, so I have a good base of skills. It was helpful, and I trust her opinions and advice a lot.

But dammit if I didn't get into a text discussion with her this evening after all, and of course I asked how she was feeling about things, and of course she was overwhelmingly negative and emotional and hair-triggered and split me/her/us black from head to toe, and of course she dropped at least one bomb that still has me spinning: "I don't think we want to be friends with each other. I think we want to be together but we can't be anymore so we are doing this f**ked up thing."  

It's also now painfully obvious that she's seeing someone, and probably has been for quite some time, and hasn't been telling me, and yet still says things like that, so... .whoa. 

[babyducks]

Hi Maple,

I like what valet said about finding your center independent of her and your relationship.  Sounds simple but was a new way of thinking for me.   to me finding my center meant identifying my own emotions, thoughts, ideas regardless of what was going on with my partner.   my emotions can't be based on hers, or reactive to hers.   that's just sent me rocketing off into space.

what makes you say it's obvious that she is seeing someone, did she mention that during your text exchange?

'ducks

[MapleBob]

I like what valet said about finding your center independent of her and your relationship.  Sounds simple but was a new way of thinking for me.   to me finding my center meant identifying my own emotions, thoughts, ideas regardless of what was going on with my partner.   my emotions can't be based on hers, or reactive to hers.   that's just sent me rocketing off into space.

what makes you say it's obvious that she is seeing someone, did she mention that during your text exchange?

Well, I wound up asking her directly after I posted that and she said that she isn't, so I don't know. Just discard that idea. Late-night paranoia maybe.  

Finding my own center isn't impossible for me, but yes, there is a lot of buffeting that occurs around her. She's still giving off a lot of mixed messages. I could type out a bunch of stuff she said, but the main points are "I don't think we want to be friends with each other. I think we want to be together but we can't be anymore so we are doing this f**ked up thing," which she then clarified to ":)on't read into it too much, please. I meant that I feel we aren't good at loving each other in a friendship way. And I absolutely do not want to be together now. Just to be 100% clear," but then we ended the conversation with "I get your frustration. I AM impossible. And I don't know why. I'm trying (really!) to let go of being angry and sad, but it's slowwwww," and "I love you. I'm not really an a**hole, I swear. I'll talk to you soon.  "

Oh, and "I really don't know why you ever ask me how I feel. I always get it wrong! You asked where I'm at, and I told you. Next time just don't ask. I know you try/tried. I know I don't try hard enough. That's part of the problem, I get it."

Let's split everyone black! The love/hate is driving me nuts. I really want her to get diagnosed. This is SO borderline.

Seriously  .

[MapleBob]

I'm really not happy with my options with her, and I'm spinning and overthinking tonight. I'm supposed to text with her next Saturday, then talk on Sunday. I don't know the right thing to say or do. Ugh.

[MapleBob]

Do borderlines push us away and try to hurt us so that we'll leave them and reinforce their mistaken beliefs about them being awful people? As a non I just can't wrap my head around that.

[valet]

Do borderlines push us away and try to hurt us so that we'll leave them and reinforce their mistaken beliefs about them being awful people? As a non I just can't wrap my head around that.

I don't think the reasoning is that specific. It is more of a situation of 'can't'. Some people can't do some things emotionally, and it's very hard to ascertain why unless they spend a lot of time in therapy exploring their own stuff. It is generally never about us. Understand that the shame and guilt she lives with (and projects when triggered) is her own. It is not yours.

The best you can do is remain upbeat and true to yourself, while offering your support if she asks. These situation are kind of like untangling a big knot. We have to work slowly and carefully, or things will only get tighter and more difficult to separate.

I know that sounds difficult. It will be. Accepting your role as the more emotionally mature person (her caretaker, in a sense) will benefit you quite a bit, especially during this rough patch. How would you describe the dynamic emotionally at this point?

[MapleBob]

I know that sounds difficult. It will be. Accepting your role as the more emotionally mature person (her caretaker, in a sense) will benefit you quite a bit, especially during this rough patch. How would you describe the dynamic emotionally at this point?

It's been a pretty long rough patch at this point, but this is a particularly rough patch of the rough patch.  

The emotional dynamic is that no matter what I seem to do, she's pushing me away/running/apologizing/splitting me black. I think the most telling thing she's said recently is upthread, the one about how she's "really trying to let go of being mad/sad, but it's slowwwww." I probably need to be doing more *emotional* validating, but I feel like I need (for me) to do it without validating the ensuing behavior based on her feelings. "Feelings aren't facts", that's really hard to get through to her. Reading between the lines, it's that she feels hopeless, so things are hopeless. And anyway, she doesn't have the time or energy or know what to do or what she wants or yadda yadda yadda... .

Two months of low-contact bordering on no contact has calmed her not one iota. I still hear that she's obsessed with thinking about our relationship, but she also says that she doesn't care. That's a favorite.

[babyducks]

being validating doesn't come naturally to me.   It got a lot easier when I accepted that my partners emotions are very real to her.  I don't have to like them, accept them, or agree with them to acknowledge that they are an important part of her and meaningful to her.

[MapleBob]

being validating doesn't come naturally to me.   It got a lot easier when I accepted that my partners emotions are very real to her.  I don't have to like them, accept them, or agree with them to acknowledge that they are an important part of her and meaningful to her.

Oh, I'm sure that her emotions are real for her, and I can validate them. But if, in her mind, feelings are facts, and ever-changing (I typically get 3-4 moods out of her in any given conversation), AND she bases decisions on these ever-changing fact-feelings, well, that's pretty hard to cope with.

[livednlearned]

if, in her mind, feelings are facts, and ever-changing (I typically get 3-4 moods out of her in any given conversation), AND she bases decisions on these ever-changing fact-feelings, well, that's pretty hard to cope with.

This is a big part of what makes her who she is. Whether you become friends or lovers, this is the person you love, and she is like this. Some people decide this isn't something they can tolerate long-term. Some people develop skills that seem to work. Since you are living long distance and aren't technically together, this might mean that you work on one thing during the calls you have. A chance for you to experiment with some of the lessons here.

It's hard for anyone to transition from lover to friend. In your mind, what would signify that you were doing this successfully with your ex?

[MapleBob]

Since you are living long distance and aren't technically together, this might mean that you work on one thing during the calls you have. A chance for you to experiment with some of the lessons here.

Based on what I've been saying, where should I start?

It's hard for anyone to transition from lover to friend. In your mind, what would signify that you were doing this successfully with your ex?

That's a really hard question. I think that setting some clear intentions towards being friends and NOT harboring hopes of reconciliation on either side would help, but I'm not sure I can do that yet - and no matter what she says, I'm not sure she can either. It would take some actual engagement on her part, in a consistent fashion. Actually, consistency in general would be really really a huge relief at this point.

It's true, though: I'm not 100% sure or unsure that I can hang with someone who, over the course of literally an hour, will say "I love you" AND "I don't care", "I want to say goodbye" AND "things will get better between us", "I feel calmer when I'm not talking to you" AND "I think about this all the time, I get surprise anger, this makes me insane, I'm obsessed with this relationship, etc." It's like I'm supposed to be able to have the exact right reaction to what she says in the moment, only to have to turn on a dime scant minutes later when she says the exact opposite thing.

She's also started doing this "I don't even feel like I really know you or your life anymore" as a justification for pushing me away, even while admitting that she's done everything within her power to keep herself from being in a position to know me! That would have to stop. So yeah, consistency. One way or the other.

[patientandclear]

It would take some actual engagement on her part, in a consistent fashion. Actually, consistency in general would be really really a huge relief at this point.

... .yeah, consistency. One way or the other.

Two years ago my ex suddenly veered from being super close and open with me, to holding me at arm's length (at the same time, he started to date someone else, an obvious explanation for the shift; I was aware from some publicly available photos, though he did not tell me at the time and did not realize I knew).  It hurt my feelings a lot and I took a while to process.  Finally I raised it with him -- not in terms of the new woman, but in terms of the subtle but real shift in how he was dealing with me.  He was upset with me for saying this (I was starting to threaten our to-that-point very secure-feeling friendship, in his view), but he asked what I would need for things to be better.  I told him what I needed was for him to sustain what he started with me -- a level of closeness, a conversation, whatever.  Not to suddenly change what we were doing.  "Consistency" would have been another word for what I was asking for.

In retrospect, there is nothing I could have asked that would have been harder for him.  His feelings and impulses are all over the place.  He may be able to work his way back around to me and to what we were doing, but to show up consistently in the same emotional state and posture toward our r/ship -- I might as well have been asking for the moon.

I think what livednlearned is saying is that your SO is not a person who is emotionally consistent -- nor can she be.  It is really important to accept that this is true.  Expecting that to change sets you both up for a hard fall. 

[livednlearned]

Since you are living long distance and aren't technically together, this might mean that you work on one thing during the calls you have. A chance for you to experiment with some of the lessons here.

Based on what I've been saying, where should I start?

Disengaging from the circular argument might be a place to start. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=106107

People with BPD have very labile moods. That doesn't mean you have to engage every single one. Can you listen to her without taking what she says personally? This will be hard -- you are attached to an outcome (wanting her to want a relationship with you).

It's hard for anyone to transition from lover to friend. In your mind, what would signify that you were doing this successfully with your ex?

That's a really hard question. I think that setting some clear intentions towards being friends and NOT harboring hopes of reconciliation on either side would help, but I'm not sure I can do that yet - and no matter what she says, I'm not sure she can either. It would take some actual engagement on her part, in a consistent fashion. Actually, consistency in general would be really really a huge relief at this point.

Consistency is something we have to provide, the non-BPD partner. If your ex is BPD, you are going to have to provide the structure and be the consistent partner in the friendship or relationship.

What do you think would happen if you told her you want to be friends, and may need some time to disengage?

[MapleBob]

Okay, lots to reply to here:

I think what livednlearned is saying is that your SO is not a person who is emotionally consistent -- nor can she be.  It is really important to accept that this is true.  Expecting that to change sets you both up for a hard fall. 

Well, that does give me some perspective to go on, and could be seen as consistent. Maybe she white-knuckled her way through our initial romantic relationship of 14 months (well, the mask started to slip fairly early on, actually, to hear her speak of it now, though I didn't notice it because she tried to hide it). She has said that she "felt like a good version of herself" during the time we were together - as in, she was able to wear the mask of a sane, rational, safe-feeling person under the effects of the honeymoon period? But she isn't an emotionally consistent person, so she just couldn't continue being that way. That's very interesting, actually.

People with BPD have very labile moods. That doesn't mean you have to engage every single one. Can you listen to her without taking what she says personally? This will be hard -- you are attached to an outcome (wanting her to want a relationship with you).

It's pretty difficult not to take personally sometimes, but most of the time I actually feel exasperated. I'm not taking it personally anymore (most of the time), I'm just frustrated at being handed conflicting messages and being expected to make sense of them and act on them. So I need to learn - and be given the opportunity to practice that with her, I guess, which is a big "thing I'm not getting that I need".

Consistency is something we have to provide, the non-BPD partner. If your ex is BPD, you are going to have to provide the structure and be the consistent partner in the friendship or relationship.

What do you think would happen if you told her you want to be friends, and may need some time to disengage?

I can work on consistency. I think I'm pretty consistently on-message with her, but I voice my frustrations more than I probably could/should. I could play those closer to the chest for now, until a "mood opportunity" presents itself.

Well, first of all, I guess I should be clear: being friends is "settling" for me. I'd much rather be with her in a romantic relationship than in a friendship, but a romantic entanglement with her is very very fraught, and is likely asking too much of both of us (right now anyway). If I asked her for time for disengagement she would accept that happily, I think. It's almost something she's begged me to ask her for. She doesn't understand why I like her, or love her, or want to know her, or want to talk to her or have anything to do with her. She's pondered that loudly and repeatedly and directly, and I can give her reasons and validate her having doubts (and I have my doubts about that too!), but she can't hear or feel or relate to or accept my answers. She's begging me to leave sometimes, it seems, although I know that me leaving is also a fear of hers, and that my staying is the very biggest (and most frustrating) form of validation that I can give her.

[MapleBob]

I'm feeling really angry and hopeless going in to this talk, and she's threatening to "say goodbye", not because she wants to, but because she feels like it's the right thing to do at this point. Ugh, help.

[livednlearned]

You don't want to be dangled (feels awful), and sense that she is trying to end things.

How do you want this to go? End angrily? That might make it easier to step away.

Or do you want to draw boundaries that might be difficult in a different way, where you can avoid an angry phone call, yet still decide to step away.

It sounds like she is trying to stop the bleeding. 

[MapleBob]

You don't want to be dangled (feels awful), and sense that she is trying to end things.

How do you want this to go? End angrily? That might make it easier to step away.

Or do you want to draw boundaries that might be difficult in a different way, where you can avoid an angry phone call, yet still decide to step away.

It sounds like she is trying to stop the bleeding. 

The thing is: I don't actually know if she's going to. I think I could prevent it, but to what end? I feel like I would need something clear and solution-based to present to her to keep her around, but I don't know if I have that, or if that's even possible. Stopping the bleeding AND getting her to engage would be great, but that might be at cross-purposes right now. She's been apologetic, and promised that we'll have a better talk, and said that she loves me, but she's also pushed away and threatened to say goodbye, and said some pretty ridiculous things to me too. I think there's some validity in the "we aren't friends; we want to be together but we can't anymore" statement.  :'(

How do I *want* this to go? I *want* her to feel safe, and to soften, and not leave, and begin to slowly build something with me again. I *want* her to accept that hard things have happened, and to be happy that I'm still here, and to drop the defenses/rage/sadness and let herself love me (love as in the verb, not the feeling), like she says she wants to be able to.

[steve195915]

How do I *want* this to go? I *want* her to feel safe, and to soften, and not leave, and begin to slowly build something with me again. I *want* her to accept that hard things have happened, and to be happy that I'm still here, and to drop the defenses/rage/sadness and let herself love me (love as in the verb, not the feeling), like she says she wants to be able to.

You are asking for the impossible for someone with BPD.  They can act normal at times but the defenses/rage/sadness will always return, feeling safe and secure is impossible due to their failure of abandonment and they find it very hard to accept responsibility for their actions, its always someone elses fault and there's a lot of other issues too.

If you want to be with her and find some sort of peace within yourself, I suggest learn as much as you can about her illness and to have realistic expectations, to not take things personally, to accept things as they are, and to learn validation and empathy to make things better.  Tell her you love her and will always be there for her no matter what. Love is "unconditional" and she has an uncurable illness.  Ask yourself if you love her unconditionally and if you are prepared to ride this emotional roller coaster.  Remember, You are not alone, there's so many of us that are going through similar situations. 

[MapleBob]

You are asking for the impossible for someone with BPD.  They can act normal at times but the defenses/rage/sadness will always return, feeling safe and secure is impossible due to their failure of abandonment and they find it very hard to accept responsibility for their actions, its always someone elses fault and there's a lot of other issues too.

I know. That's just what I *want*. I guess I'm trying to figure out how close to that I can get and still be happy.

If you want to be with her and find some sort of peace within yourself, I suggest learn as much as you can about her illness and to have realistic expectations, to not take things personally, to accept things as they are, and to learn validation and empathy to make things better.  Tell her you love her and will always be there for her no matter what. Love is "unconditional" and she has an uncurable illness.  Ask yourself if you love her unconditionally and if you are prepared to ride this emotional roller coaster.  Remember, You are not alone, there's so many of us that are going through similar situations.  

Learning lots here! And all over the internet (although there are some real negatively-skewed articles out there, sheesh). I absolutely will be telling her that I love her, and that I won't leave/abandon her, regardless. I'm feeling pretty close to unconditional here, even after all of this - that doesn't mean I wouldn't LOVE things to get steadily better, but I can hang in there, assuming she does. That's my worry at the moment (and has been for a while): that she's going to just bail. I honestly don't know why she's even still talking to me at all, given the things she says.

"At this point I feel pretty strongly that we should just say goodbye soon" and then literally ten minutes later it's "I care about you and I'm sorry for my part. I'm so tired of us saying that but it's still true ... .I love you too. I'm not really an a**hole, I swear. We will talk and it will be better than this." 

What am I supposed to make of that?

[steve195915]

I know. That's just what I *want*. I guess I'm trying to figure out how close to that I can get and still be happy.

Learning lots here! And all over the internet (although there are some real negatively-skewed articles out there, sheesh). I absolutely will be telling her that I love her, and that I won't leave/abandon her, regardless. I'm feeling pretty close to unconditional here, even after all of this - that doesn't mean I wouldn't LOVE things to get steadily better, but I can hang in there, assuming she does. That's my worry at the moment (and has been for a while): that she's going to just bail. I honestly don't know why she's even still talking to me at all, given the things she says.

"At this point I feel pretty strongly that we should just say goodbye soon" and then literally ten minutes later it's "I care about you and I'm sorry for my part. I'm so tired of us saying that but it's still true ... .I love you too. I'm not really an a**hole, I swear. We will talk and it will be better than this." 

What am I supposed to make of that?

It's the mental illness speaking.  I feel the same way as you in my relationship in that I can hang in there for us if I felt she was just as committed and I worry that at any time she can blow up about anything or a made up thing and change her mind.  Using validation, empathy, not taking things personally, ignoring her attacks and just plain keeping my mouth shut has minimized any outbursts and fights.  For me I'm giving it my best effort but if there's another breakup, or if she cheats I tell myself I will need to move on.  Expect your emotions to be all over the place due to what seems her changing feelings for you, one day you will feel like she loves you immensely and be on top of the world, next day it may feel as she loathes you and you are the scum of the Earth.  Things aren't going to ever be smooth with a BPD so if you decide to stick it out , you better be prepared to love a roller coaster ride. 

[MapleBob]

It's the mental illness speaking.  I feel the same way as you in my relationship in that I can hang in there for us if I felt she was just as committed and I worry that at any time she can blow up about anything or a made up thing and change her mind.  Using validation, empathy, not taking things personally, ignoring her attacks and just plain keeping my mouth shut has minimized any outbursts and fights.  For me I'm giving it my best effort but if there's another breakup, or if she cheats I tell myself I will need to move on.  Expect your emotions to be all over the place due to what seems her changing feelings for you, one day you will feel like she loves you immensely and be on top of the world, next day it may feel as she loathes you and you are the scum of the Earth.  Things aren't going to ever be smooth with a BPD so if you decide to stick it out , you better be prepared to love a roller coaster ride.  

She isn't diagnosed, but she IS seeing a therapist and I'm prepared to ascribe to her certain STRONG BPD traits, if not the full-blown disorder. Just to be clear about that.

And yeah, I hear you. I guess I'm going to try to focus on being emotionally centered when I'm in communication with her (IF I'm in communication with her), not be pushy/pressuring, validate... .basically what I'm already doing. Sigh. I can think of so much we could do to improve our relationship if she would just relax into this. At least relax.

I've got some more time in me to wait this out.

[steve195915]

She isn't diagnosed, but she IS seeing a therapist and I'm prepared to ascribe to her certain STRONG BPD traits, if not the full-blown disorder. Just to be clear about that.

And yeah, I hear you. I guess I'm going to try to focus on being emotionally centered when I'm in communication with her (IF I'm in communication with her), not be pushy/pressuring, validate... .basically what I'm already doing. Sigh. I can think of so much we could do to improve our relationship if she would just relax into this. At least relax.

I've got some more time in me to wait this out.

Your're doing what you have to do so hang in there and I hope it works out the best for you!

[MapleBob]

I'm pretty sure she's a goner. I'll never understand it. Why do they cling so hard only to then push you away so hard? And so coldly?

I feel like there's this element of: well, if things ever got okay between us, we would be together, and that's too much, so here, let me sabotage some things.

[livednlearned]

She may have a fear of intimacy that is co-mingled with her fear of abandonment.