How important were ex-partners emotional affairs in your decision to split up?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi,

I've just left a short relationship with a BPD partner with severe addiction problems. I'm the adult child of a low-grade narcissist mother so I spent a significant amount of my life as a co-dependent, rescuer, fixer whose pain threshold is actually quite high - I am unable to tolerate significant amounts of ___ from other people and I'm prone to taking relationship risks. At one point in my life, I had tremendous anger issues and was pretty violent myself - though I never harmed another person physically. At the same time, I have worked a lot on myself in various forms of therapy, confronted my own fears and feelings in very painful ways and can proudly say that I raised myself a second time in this life because the first round with my mother was wrong, very wrong. Today, I can say that I have stronger boundaries than many people around me, am very calm and serene and also able to accept my feelings rather than blocking them completely. Still, I believe I will always have a soft spot for individuals going through turmoil. I believe they deserve a chance but I don't get attracted to people solely because of this or to satisfy my rescuer reflexes. I have relationships with balanced people who function well as well. Also, I'm quite happy on my own. 

So, somewhere in the midst of this make-up, I started a relationship with an addict who agreed to go into treatment to be able to be with me- I didn't offer this. He wanted us to have a relationship- he wanted to be exclusive, I didn't bring this up, asked if he was sure, and yes, these were what he wanted.

He is a very charming, extraordinary individual when he wants to be. We had to start co-habiting when he came out of the hospital.

At first, for one month maybe, I fully supported him and also started working on SMART recovery programme for partners. He never maintained his recovery - which is a difficult thing in itself. During this period I also noticed signs of deep insecurity and narcissism but within what I now see is a borderline framework. At the same time, he was a "wonderful" partner - looking back, basically boosting my ego all the time but because I didn't voice any needs, I didn't see how dismissive he was in terms of empathy etc. He also had these subtle attacks on what he thought would be my insecure points in terms of sexuality, my attraction as a female etc - and ha ha he is wrong, I'm mother trained:)) He has an online harem, I was his normalcy pot, but I even encouraged the latter to a degree to motivate him in his "recovery" from addiction.

However, to me, being able to tolerate something or handling a hot situation calmly and with correct tools of communication doesn't mean I want to carry on in that relationship. These are things I have had to learn because I didn't choose to go NC with my mother, but in another relationship, I have other needs. The need to be able to be vulnerable and imperfect without fear, the need to be heard and respected. As soon as I started voicing these, another creature appeared. Rude, dismissive, unable to discuss anything rationally, abusive in a lot of ways, raging etc. Also, at the same time,  I discovered all his badmouthing about me to his online confidantes, his begging to his ex from three years ago to be friends on facebook and at the same time sharing a dream he had about them together - in the same email where he portrays me as a very "understanding" person, argh! His explanations were more horrible than his act, this time saying disgusting things about this woman and how this is an obsession and he is ready to say things he doesn't feel or believe just to get a response from her - to me, this hypocrisy was worse than any possible attraction.

There have been many things like this, and even though I know he is ill, to be honest I'm disgusted with this hypocrisy. Our relationship ended when I raised my boundaries on some other issues but I still want to know how others have been affected by these emotional infidelities compromising your dignity? He's super attention seeking with all these online females which is a violation of our relationship and cannot even do that without inserting me somewhere in this, either! (And he is the one preaching monogamy, loyalty etc all the time, not me).

Have you experienced emotional/physical affairs like this and where did it leave you in terms of understanding BPD as an illness? (Together with his dismissiveness, defensiveness and zero empathy about these)?





 

[thisworld]

Hi,

I've just left a short relationship with a BPD partner with severe addiction problems. I'm the adult child of a low-grade narcissist mother so I spent a significant amount of my life as a co-dependent, rescuer, fixer whose pain threshold is actually quite high - I am unable to tolerate significant amounts of ___ from other people and I'm prone to taking relationship risks. At one point in my life, I had tremendous anger issues and was pretty violent myself - though I never harmed another person physically. At the same time, I have worked a lot on myself in various forms of therapy, confronted my own fears and feelings in very painful ways and can proudly say that I raised myself a second time in this life because the first round with my mother was wrong, very wrong. Today, I can say that I have stronger boundaries than many people around me, am very calm and serene and also able to accept my feelings rather than blocking them completely. Still, I believe I will always have a soft spot for individuals going through turmoil. I believe they deserve a chance but I don't get attracted to people solely because of this or to satisfy my rescuer reflexes. I have relationships with balanced people who function well as well. Also, I'm quite happy on my own. 

So, somewhere in the midst of this make-up, I started a relationship with an addict who agreed to go into treatment to be able to be with me- I didn't offer this. He wanted us to have a relationship- he wanted to be exclusive, I didn't bring this up, asked if he was sure, and yes, these were what he wanted.

He is a very charming, extraordinary individual when he wants to be. We had to start co-habiting when he came out of the hospital.

At first, for one month maybe, I fully supported him and also started working on SMART recovery programme for partners. He never maintained his recovery - which is a difficult thing in itself. During this period I also noticed signs of deep insecurity and narcissism but within what I now see is a borderline framework. At the same time, he was a "wonderful" partner - looking back, basically boosting my ego all the time but because I didn't voice any needs, I didn't see how dismissive he was in terms of empathy etc. He also had these subtle attacks on what he thought would be my insecure points in terms of sexuality, my attraction as a female etc - and ha ha he is wrong, I'm mother trained:)) He has an online harem, I was his normalcy pot, but I even encouraged the latter to a degree to motivate him in his "recovery" from addiction.

However, to me, being able to tolerate something or handling a hot situation calmly and with correct tools of communication doesn't mean I want to carry on in that relationship. These are things I have had to learn because I didn't choose to go NC with my mother, but in another relationship, I have other needs. The need to be able to be vulnerable and imperfect without fear, the need to be heard and respected. As soon as I started voicing these, another creature appeared. Rude, dismissive, unable to discuss anything rationally, abusive in a lot of ways, raging etc. Also, at the same time,  I discovered all his badmouthing about me to his online confidantes, his begging to his ex from three years ago to be friends on facebook and at the same time sharing a dream he had about them together - in the same email where he portrays me as a very "understanding" person, argh! His explanations were more horrible than his act, this time saying disgusting things about this woman and how this is an obsession and he is ready to say things he doesn't feel or believe just to get a response from her - to me, this hypocrisy was worse than any possible attraction.

There have been many things like this, and even though I know he is ill, to be honest I'm disgusted with this hypocrisy. Our relationship ended when I raised my boundaries on some other issues but I still want to know how others have been affected by these emotional infidelities compromising your dignity? He's super attention seeking with all these online females which is a violation of our relationship and cannot even do that without inserting me somewhere in this, either! (And he is the one preaching monogamy, loyalty etc all the time, not me).

Have you experienced emotional/physical affairs like this and where did it leave you in terms of understanding BPD as an illness? (Together with his dismissiveness, defensiveness and zero empathy about these)?





 

[hashtag_loyal]

However, to me, being able to tolerate something or handling a hot situation calmly and with correct tools of communication doesn't mean I want to carry on in that relationship. These are things I have had to learn because I didn't choose to go NC with my mother, but in another relationship, I have other needs. The need to be able to be vulnerable and imperfect without fear, the need to be heard and respected. As soon as I started voicing these, another creature appeared. Rude, dismissive, unable to discuss anything rationally, abusive in a lot of ways, raging etc. Also, at the same time,  I discovered all his badmouthing about me to his online confidantes, his begging to his ex from three years ago to be friends on facebook and at the same time sharing a dream he had about them together - in the same email where he portrays me as a very "understanding" person, argh! His explanations were more horrible than his act, this time saying disgusting things about this woman and how this is an obsession and he is ready to say things he doesn't feel or believe just to get a response from her - to me, this hypocrisy was worse than any possible attraction.

I'm sorry, but I'm struggling to see which boundaries were crossed and where the "affair" angle is from. He's not allowed to be Facebook friends with an ex? He can confide his problems only to his gf and nobody else? What if the problems he wants to confide involve you?

I understand you left out a lot of details for brevity sake, but from what you have shared, I just don't see how this is a devastating emotional affair that would undermine an otherwise healthy r/s.

[thisworld]

Hi, Hashtag-loyal

Thank you for asking clarification, given the way I've described the particulars I can see how controlling I may appear as well. This is what I meant: I understand that in a relationship especially in a new one, people will have closer friends than new lovers and it is the same for me. It is even positive because sometimes friends help us gain perspective and put us back on track. My personal boundary and behaviour is, if what is being shared with a friend is something important (if I feel that it's important, if I have persistent negative feelings about it, if it's something about the general structure of our lives rather than a temporary irritation), my partner learns that I have this issue, before or after my talk with my friend. I also do not present these confidantes (in my partner's case all of them ex-GFs) in ways that would make my new partner feel excluded (though this is of course also related to the insecurities of the new partner). If I have said some nasty things about my partner at a moment of anger, I also say nice things about them when I'm happy. Basically, I give my confidantes a realistic picture of our relationship, not something completely different from the way I behave at home. Also, I don't do this through my mobile phone while carrying on what my partner thinks was a nice convo with both parties responding. (Like writing things like "Oh this is so boring let's move on to video chat when she leaves" as soon as the partner goes to the toilet).

I'm a confidante to an old male friend and when he tells me about his marital problems I try to give constructing feedback without dissing his wife, I empathise, I criticise my friend and sometimes I tell him that his relationship would improve if he shared this with his wife. I never make fun of the wife in ways I would be embarrassed to do in front of her.

My then partner knew my boundaries in this, we had friendly talks about this.

My then partner's confidante ex-GF doesn't contact him much unless he is in a new relationship, then appears and makes herself known through FB but when she is in a new relationship herself she doesn't introduce my then partner. This is something visible to my then partner's close circle, when his mother learnt that we split up, she immediately said "Is it because of this ex-GF? She always does that, I warned him about that."

In the meantime, he talked about this ex-GF in rather degrading terms - I asked him not to do this, actually.

Anyway, the particular badmouthing includes representing me as this bore (and we were laughing so much:)) who was ready to pay for everything for him (which I wasn't and he would start his recovery but he didn't have his clothes so we bought him some clothes etc) but he didn't let me touch him (look at that connection with 'but'. This is also a lie because I work from home and he was after me asking for sex 24/7 and we had quite a lively sex life actually. In another instance, this ex-GF confidante suggested to introduce him to a female friend who lived around. His response, "I hope she isn't too nice. I don't want any dangers." All this while I listened to how I was the love of his life, mind you.

So this is the relationship I have a problem with and I find fault with the then-partner, not this ex-GF whom I see as a saboteur confidante, she isn't responsible for our relationship. Actually, he is manipulating her too, constantly reminiscing (sorry for the spelling, english is not my mother tongue) about their relationship.

The ex whom he was begging to be FB friends with: He said this was a woman who cheated on him, gave him so much pain, he couldn't recover for 3 years, was a horrible obsession that worsened his addiction, but he saw his errors in that relationship, too and was feeling a bit guilty towards her. I asked him if he was over with this before we started a relationship and he said, totally.

Then one month into the relationship, I discover these e-mails. Not simply asking to be friends but telling her about dreams he had (Dear, darling, I had a dream, you and I were checking into our hotel room etc etc etc. I miss you, I love you, why don't you accept me as your FB friend, I'm living with someone, she is very sensitive and understanding. I will be obese."

When confronted, he first denied it, opened his e-mail string and treated me like a sicko who was making these up because the e-mail wasn't here. (Because he deleted this particular one right after he wrote it) I showed him the mail from his sent box and he was shocked that I could actually think about checking that box. (Again, I'm mother-trained:))

He then had a rage attack breaking stuff, raging and raging. I didn't react. (I'm mother-trained:)) I didn't accept the portrayal of a sick woman policing behind his back either.

Next day he said all those things about obsession and I felt very cold when he said he was ready to say anything to this woman - even though he doesn't believe a word of what he says- just to get a response.

These were the major things. There are also minor things like constantly message bombing other females on FB, paying compliments to them in ways he never did for me (yes, some of them are more beautiful than I am objectively, but normally I do receive more physical compliments in a relationship and in this one I received just 1 on the first day and then constant subtle two-sided compliment-attacks. And things like "you don't mind me having a young circle of groupies on the internet, do you? // "Your friend commented on our photo, she so fancies me (my friend of 15 years, happily married... .)) I'm 38. I know that a confident man doesn't attempt at making a woman insecure like this.  

Stuff like this.

Again, thank you for asking for clarification and I value your opinion a lot. I'm open to criticism and would like to see other people's perspectives. Again, because I was raised like this all the time, I feel that sometimes I may be unable to judge how hurtful things can be.

I can see the cause of these behaviours in my then partner's illness but don't want them in my emotional life. I would be so happy to learn how others interpret these within the framework of the illness.

Best,

[hashtag_loyal]

Have you experienced emotional/physical affairs like this and where did it leave you in terms of understanding BPD as an illness?

Thisworld,

Thanks for the explanation. I think I can see your perspective better now.

To answer your original question, you have described pretty classic BPD behaviors (breaking boundaries, staying way too close to ex-lovers, acts of rage, lying and deception, unable to accept personal responsibility for anything, triangulation, attention-seeking, too much too soon, manipulation and projection), so yes, we have all experienced this, and it has most definitely informed our understanding of BPD as an illness.

[thisworld]

Thank you hashtag-loyal. The rest is about our individual expectations and boundaries I guess. Sometimes, deep down, I guess I fantasize about a BPD without this, but there you go, it is a fantasy.