Expecting them back after NC

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Reading this is so ridiculous it's almost funny if I didn't have to live it!

It is funny and it is ok to laugh. I've certainly sped along my healing process by finding humor in my own situation. 

[hashtag_loyal]

Reading this is so ridiculous it's almost funny if I didn't have to live it!

It is funny and it is ok to laugh. I've certainly sped along my healing process by finding humor in my own situation. 

[Joem678]

This is the first time she leaves but not the first time she goes into crisis and strays.  I initiated the NC back in October after a strong push/pull attemtp since she left in July.  I get anxiety and panic attacks because of her inconsistent patterns.  For example, "Babe, I want a divorce".  This is what I've experienced since going NC:

So, now, let's talk about the last 6 weeks.  Keep in mind,  She first put me out to pasture.  Now I have completely avoided her, I have not responded to texts, I don't answer her calls.  We have lived completely separate lives.  We have not crossed any paths or intruded each with the kids:

1)One day, the main idolized friend was texting my 7 year old daughter to have her mom call her.  This friend works with her and it was before the day started which presumably meant my wife was going to see this person at work.  So, chaos exists here.

2)  My wife frantically wanted to come home and help with the kids the weekend immediately after I told her to leave me alone.  Even though, my teenage boys, shut her down, she still showed up.  My second oldest told her to leave.  Mind you she left in July and has had no care about the house or helping each other out with the kids...

3) On Halloween, before school, she sends me pictures of my daughters in their halloween costumes.  She then calls a cousin of mine if it's ok to take the kids to their house because they missed him.  Mind you, I was picking them up after school for what was my week with them.  Which means, I was also the one taking them trick or treating.

4) A few weeks ago, my wife starts calling me.  I don't answer and the first text I get from her was "if you don't answer, I will have to call the police".  Luckily, my oldest texted me what was going on.  It seems that she instigated an argument with my 2nd oldest (16 years) and it got out of hand. I called and picked up my son.  Never spoke to her.  This infuriated her.  She tried to make me feel guilty

5)  My two daughters (7 and 6) had an after school Xmas fair one day.  Luckily, I noticed that my wife's van was parked in a street adjacent to the school not in the traditional parking lot.  My girls never saw her.  I felt like she was expecting me to take the girls and wanted to cross paths.  Why would she be there alone?

She still texts asking me questions, as if she doesn't understand what leave me alone means.  

C. Stein is correct.  Just plan, visualize and accept the worst.  Put yourself through this pain on your terms.  :)on't wait for them to come back.  I do expect mine to come back because all signs show that she was expecting me to chase her.  This past week, my son told me she stated "it was not suppose to be like this."

In my case, my pwBPD creates a fantasy with people and it doesn't last. It gets so severe, she can't sustain it.  I just don't know in what time frame she was in when I discovered she was at it again.  She has mentioned it lasted 18 months in the past.  Not the straying but the whole process of creating the fantasy.   

It really depends on patterns and if they still exhibit those patterns which will tell you the chances if they will try to come back.  Get strong!  Get educated! This will help you make the right decision. 

[GreenEyedMonster]

She told me that she doesn't want to talk about the past.  Whenever I would bring up anything that reminded her of her past actions, she didn't want to talk about it.  Since I was a part of all of that, I actually asked her if I remind her of the past.  She never replied.  

I think mine also stays away longer when she realizes that she really did treat the person badly.  She almost caused her ex to lose his house.  He saved her life, and she ended up breaking up with him.  She physically abused him.  She convinced him that she wanted to move across the country with him and live with her parents, and then she decided not to.  Her stepdad had a job lined up for him.  She borrowed money from him and never paid him back.  Later, she stole from him.  If she ever contacts him again, it won't be for a very long time.  With him, she's painted herself black.

My ex said the same thing to me:  "With me, when something happens and it's in the past, I don't talk about it anymore.  The past is the past."  Another avoidance tactic.

I also suspect he's painted himself black with me.  He gets the most angry with me when I'm kind to him.  If I tell him things like how nice it was to see him and how glad I was that he came back to our group of friends, he calls me a "stalker" and gets exceedingly angry at me.  I know he's really angry at himself, because if I really am a sweet, kind person, then there is no excuse for what he did, and then he can't rationalize it away.  If I were mean, and angry with him, at least he would be justified in his avoidance and mistreatment.

His increasingly aggressive attempts to find me on social media tell me that he's looking for a way to make a tentative step back toward me, but he's left himself very few low-risk options now.  I think he's very frustrated that he has set himself up to face rejection in order to see me again, but doesn't know what to do it about it.  I actually have forgiven him, but I am left with no options for communicating this.  He must know this, because he threatened me with a PPO, but it leaves him completely in the dark as far as where he stands.  I'm sure that instead of regret, he is just mad at me for creating the whole situation.

[steve195915]

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Even when mine says goodbye, she comes back.  Like everything else with her, "goodbye" is a feeling, and feelings=facts.

June - "I don't want you in my life anymore.  Goodbye."

July - "Thank you for your friendship, but please don't contact me.  Love always, A."  

August - ":)o you have a room for rent?"

September - "Why aren't we friends?  I thought we were."

September - "You're crazy.  I don't want to be friends with you."

September - Calls and texts blocked

November - Resumed contact, became friends on Facebook

December - "This obviously isn't working.  Bye."

December - Calls and texts blocked, blocked on Facebook

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SummerStor, I can't wait for what January will bring!  

I also decided To put together my history.

January-March - "I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with you, you are so amazing to me, I love you with all my heart and soul."

April - "I'm tired of this relationship, goodbye!". (she starts seeing someone else)

May - "You are the best thing to happen to me, give me some time and I will be yours forever.". (we see each other, have sex, says it's over with the other guy)

June - She blocks me, has no contact.  I find out she moved in with the other guy.

July - We run into each other.  Later I get a text "it was awesome seeing you, all my feelings were still there, I miss you and always loved you, we should meet and talk.".  She broke up with the other guy and moved out and renting a room in her ex husbands house.

August - We get back together, talk of marriage.

September - We get engaged

October - "I'm feeling trapped, I need time, do you think you would just want to be friends, maybe with benefits too?". We sort of break up for two weeks, LC.

November - "I miss you all the time, it's so hard sleeping without you, I love you, I will always be here for you, you can always count on me."

December - "That is it, I'm walking away from this relationship."

Reading this is so ridiculous it's almost funny if I didn't have to live it!

Wow, she must have sensed I was talking about her!  She just called me unexpectedly and wants to get together tomorrow and she said she loved me.   

Well this is a good test to see how strong I can be. 

So I need to update my December

Dec 1 - "That is it, I am walking away from the relationship."

Dec 5 - "I love you, let's get together tomorrow."

[burritoman]

You know, I read a lot of these stories about people being in contact with their ex even for a little bit after a breakup. At least you got that. Mine argued with me over the phone about how she hasn't been single at all in her 20s, what if she were to want to go home with someone, why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you, I need space to become healthy if I were to want to return to this someday. I gave my "blessing" to break up, which of course I didn't want. Hung up. She texted me some followup stuff about how she knows she's hurting me, blah blah. I ignored her, she called me out on it, I kept ignoring her, and here I am a month later without any contact or explanation as to what happened. I haven't reached out to her, and she hasn't reached out to me. No idea if she's going to try to come back or make any reconciliation.

And yes, it is crazy how they can just do it at the drop of a hat. The week leading up to the breakup she became very aloof. Barely responded to my texts, then told me that night that I was annoying her from all of my texting, forgetting about all of the constant contact and love bombing she did early on. The week prior we were talking all the time still, planning for the future. It was also Halloween week, and even the night of she sent me photos of her in her costume for work. A sexy one, of course... .no idea what happened that night. Maybe it's better that I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if maybe I had gone down to see her that weekend things would have been different. Probably not, though. If anything it would have just delayed the inevitable.

[burritoman]

^^^Above post is in the wrong thread. This is my intended response here.

I'm beginning to wonder if actually my ex is done for good. Even though her excuses for the breakup at the time were wishy washy, full of concrete reasons why we're done, but aloof statements implying she doesn't know what she wants. I believe she had her replacement lined up, although I know they aren't FB official (thanks to a friend telling me). The big problem she had with our relationship was that I wasn't moving things forward with her, even though she knew I couldn't marry her yet because of my need to be back home. She knows that my life has demands and challenges right now, and after repeatedly telling her I would marry her when the time was right, she always took it as a "no," even though I never once told her no. Seems to me that a more loving and less selfish partner would understand this and want to be there for me? Also, she made me put my guard up. You can't marry somebody who you're unsure of.

In our call, she told me "If we got married today we'd be divorced in five years," but then later she said "you should have married me when I first asked you" (through a text message only a couple of months into the relationship, by the way). As if things would have been different? I have a voicemail from her when we broke up in August where she's crying and begging me to take her back because she doesn't want to live without me. After I caved and took her back, things quickly went back to the way they were, then a couple of months later she's gone. So, who knows? Maybe she knows what she wants and realizes that right now she can't get it with me, so she's going to find it with someone else? It's still strange though that she seems to have left the door open and not cut me out of her life. It seems more indicative of someone who just doesn't know what she wants right now. Lovebombing aside, I think she did believe that I was the one and it was fate, and I was different than her other partners. She told me many times that she had lusted after me (online) for a year and was determined to be with me. Apparently I disappointed her preconceived notions of who she thought I was, or she really DID believe all of these things but the relationship followed the normal trajectory of BPD... .

I could institutionalize myself with all of these back and forth thoughts.

[burritoman]

 C. Stein is correct.  Just plan, visualize and accept the worst.  Put yourself through this pain on your terms.  :)on't wait for them to come back.  I do expect mine to come back because all signs show that she was expecting me to chase her.  This past week, my son told me she stated "it was not suppose to be like this."

It really depends on patterns and if they still exhibit those patterns which will tell you the chances if they will try to come back.  Get strong!  Get educated! This will help you make the right decision. 

That's where she changed the game on me. Her patterns definitely changed. The first couple of times we broke up I tried to cut her off but she kept calling and texting, but after we got back together she told me she was mad that I didn't come after her to show her I cared. I'm wondering if this time around, because I cut her off cold turkey, it's a sign to her that I don't care and she won't put in the effort anymore. But then why not cut me out completely?

[steve195915]

So I met my exBPDgf at the park per her request today.  Driving there I was thinking to turn around but I figured I'd see what she had to say.  So she says she couldn't continue the relationship because she doesn't trust me though she loves me.  The reason she can't trust me is that during the last time she dumped me, I went to a bar with a female and had a drink.  She says she doesn't believe thats all it was but that's all it was.  Of course during one of the previous breakups she dated someone else and had sex but thats totally irrelevant.  Kind of strange that this breakup is because during the previous breakup I had a drink with a female, and she knew about it before getting back with me.  So now after 3 months its the reason?  Just another lame crazy excuse.

Anyways I said ok I love her too but that I understand her to be saying our relationship is over and that I will accept that and move on with my life.  Then the classic response from her, "I never said it was over."   

Even her text to me was "That is it, I'm walking away from this relationship."   

So I asked what do you want it to be?  She responded with she needs time, we can still be friends, we can still see each other.  She said she may want to make love to me sometimes.  I just said ok.

My interpretation: "I don't have anyone lined up right now so it would be great if you spend money on me, take me to dinner, hang out together at my whim so I'm not bored, and I'll use sex to entice you to do nice things for me (i.e. I love your massages and expensive restaurants) and I may even reward you with sex if I feel like it.  This will allow me time to find your replacement and then I can just dump you at that time.  After all, I never made any promises."

Still deciding on if I should just go NC again or go along with her game.  I'm thinking if I play her game and am able to not get emotionally lost, maybe I'll see her for what she really is and it will help getting over her. 

If I go to dinner with her or have drinks or any activity costing $$$ it will be 'dutch'.  See how that goes over.  After all we are just friends.  I'll have to admit, the sex offer is very enticing but I'm not sure she meant it.  I wonder if it's possible to have a healthy friendship with an exBPD SO? 

If I go NC, I will still be hurting, wondering, still desiring some resolution though I know my life around this woman would be disastrous. 

[JaneStorm]

So I met my exBPDgf at the park per her request today.  Driving there I was thinking to turn around but I figured I'd see what she had to say.  So she says she couldn't continue the relationship because she doesn't trust me though she loves me.  The reason she can't trust me is that during the last time she dumped me, I went to a bar with a female and had a drink.  She says she doesn't believe thats all it was but that's all it was.  Of course during one of the previous breakups she dated someone else and had sex but thats totally irrelevant.  Kind of strange that this breakup is because during the previous breakup I had a drink with a female, and she knew about it before getting back with me.  So now after 3 months its the reason?  Just another lame crazy excuse.

Anyways I said ok I love her too but that I understand her to be saying our relationship is over and that I will accept that and move on with my life.  Then the classic response from her, "I never said it was over."   

Even her text to me was "That is it, I'm walking away from this relationship."   

So I asked what do you want it to be?  She responded with she needs time, we can still be friends, we can still see each other.  She said she may want to make love to me sometimes.  I just said ok.

My interpretation: "I don't have anyone lined up right now so it would be great if you spend money on me, take me to dinner, hang out together at my whim so I'm not bored, and I'll use sex to entice you to do nice things for me (i.e. I love your massages and expensive restaurants) and I may even reward you with sex if I feel like it.  This will allow me time to find your replacement and then I can just dump you at that time.  After all, I never made any promises."

Still deciding on if I should just go NC again or go along with her game.  I'm thinking if I play her game and am able to not get emotionally lost, maybe I'll see her for what she really is and it will help getting over her. 

If I go to dinner with her or have drinks or any activity costing $$$ it will be 'dutch'.  See how that goes over.  After all we are just friends.  I'll have to admit, the sex offer is very enticing but I'm not sure she meant it.  I wonder if it's possible to have a healthy friendship with an exBPD SO? 

If I go NC, I will still be hurting, wondering, still desiring some resolution though I know my life around this woman would be disastrous. 

I can't and won't live a life of games. Waste of energy, does not help me grow, and wastes everyone's time. Be careful.

[Joem678]

They changed the game on you because you changed the game. My pwBPDw literally told me I had to chase her when I told her I wasn't this time.  He pattern was there until I initated NC.  Her and I are in new territory.  I don't think it changes for them whether we chase or not.  They are in the same state of mind.  Has she reached out to anyone around you!  I feel like since I am not chasing her she is trying other methods.  Mine is fantasy based so she is not herself right now. 

How has she not cut you out completely?

[burritoman]

They changed the game on you because you changed the game. My pwBPDw literally told me I had to chase her when I told her I wasn't this time.  He pattern was there until I initated NC.  Her and I are in new territory.  I don't think it changes for them whether we chase or not.  They are in the same state of mind.  Has she reached out to anyone around you!  I feel like since I am not chasing her she is trying other methods.  Mine is fantasy based so she is not herself right now. 

How has she not cut you out completely?

She hasn't reached out to me, but she still has all of era belongings here, she hasn't I friended me nor any of my friends on FB, nor has she removed any of our relationship photos. It's uncharacteristic of her.

[Joem678]

Explain the uncharacteristic part... .   If it were 100% true what would that look like?

[burritoman]

Explain the uncharacteristic part... .  If it were 100% true what would that look like?

She has a very strict "exes belong in the past" policy. If she cut me out of her life the way she's done with past exes, she would have unfriended or blocked me on Facebook, unfriended all of my friends and family, removed our relationship photos, changed her status to "single" (currently her status is hidden), and at least made mention of getting her belongings. Until recently I've had some of my previous ex's things, and she has said before that if we were to break up she would make sure to take her things because she doesn't want to be like my past ex where I have a bunch of her stuff indefinitely. She has done this with all of her past long term exes, so that's why it's uncharacteristic.

[Joem678]

You see, that's what I'm telling you about patterns.  Even though she changed the game on you she is not putting completely out to pasture.  But don't drown yourself in the curiosity.  If you go NC for yourself, you will start to get clarity. 

[burritoman]

You see, that's what I'm telling you about patterns.  Even though she changed the game on you she is not putting completely out to pasture.  But don't drown yourself in the curiosity.  If you go NC for yourself, you will start to get clarity.  

Yeah, see that's what's just so strange about it all and why you can rattle your brain thinking about this. After being NC for a month, I've come to learn more about what BPD really is. When we were dating I just knew she had a multitude of problems, but I didn't know well enough to compile them all into one disorder. Now that I can look back and understand these things, I recognize that none of it could have really been prevented. If anything I would have only prolonged the inevitable. I do still have some would/could/should have guilt, but when I analyze it, it really means that I would/could/should have caved into her demands while she still would have walked over my needs. I'm preparing myself for her to try and come back, or to never speak to her again. I still do have a of fear of the "out of sight, out of mind" with her, and that she devalued me enough to where she flat out doesn't need me anymore, but in the end that's her problem, right? I want her back and I don't want her back. Like I said, I'm just trying to prepare myself either way. As far as the storage unit we share (that I pay for) is concerned, I'm not planning on doing anything with it until I get myself into the proper head space.

But all this said, she did push me to leave her, because she couldn't do it herself. She didn't cheat on me as far as I know, but she left me to fool around with one of her "just friends." I can't confirm this, but it's pretty obvious. Why do these people think they can just cut you off, fool around, bounce into other relationships, then pop back in whenever they please? Especially after saying some of the most insane things during the break up?

[burritoman]

Also, you mentioned that I changed the game on her. How? By going NC? Also, no, she hasn't reached out to anyone around me. A couple of weeks ago she did "like" some stuff on a couple of my friends' walls, but that could be meaningless.

[Joem678]

I'm not entirely sure why they do it.  But keep in mind we are on a board in regards to a personality disorder.  So medically, it's beyond their control. 

You mentioned that you cut her off cold turkey.  You never did this before.  What did you do before? 

[burritoman]

I'm not entirely sure why they do it.  But keep in mind we are on a board in regards to a personality disorder.  So medically, it's beyond their control. 

You mentioned that you cut her off cold turkey.  You never did this before.  What did you do before? 

Well, the first time we broke up I tried cutting her off but I always responded or called back. Over the summer I was a bit more successful in ignoring her, but that's when the crying and "pleases" started. Eventually I caved again. This time around, I said (almost verbatim), "If this is what you want then fine. This is your decision not mine. Thank you for the last three years, I love you, and I wish you the best of luck." I hung up and went NC immediately. She texted me some followup stuff about "I know I'm hurting you, I need space to grow, etc.," then called me out on ignoring her. I stuck to my guns, now here I am a month later of no NC.

[Joem678]

So she was expecting you to react a way she was use to.  What do you think/feel is her next action step?

[burritoman]

So she was expecting you to react a way she was use to.  What do you think/feel is her next action step?

Presumably to walk away indefinitely, or for good... It's a double edged sword. If you chase after them you fuel their ego and they push you away further, but if you walk away they presume you never cared. It still doesn't explain her lack of finality.

[burritoman]

So she was expecting you to react a way she was use to.  What do you think/feel is her next action step?

Presumably to walk away indefinitely, or for good. It's a double edged sword. If you chase after them you fuel their ego and they push you away further, but if you walk away they presume you never cared. It still doesn't explain her lack of finality.

[hopealways]

So she was expecting you to react a way she was use to.  What do you think/feel is her next action step?

Presumably to walk away indefinitely. It's a double edged sword. If you chase after them you fuel their ego and they push you away further, but if you walk away they presume you never cared. It still doesn't explain her lack of finality.

This is why we never win with a BPD. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Although I do believe they only respect those who treat them well but also don't run after them when they discard.

[burritoman]

So she was expecting you to react a way she was use to.  What do you think/feel is her next action step?

Presumably to walk away indefinitely. It's a double edged sword. If you chase after them you fuel their ego and they push you away further, but if you walk away they presume you never cared. It still doesn't explain her lack of finality.

This is why we never win with a BPD. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Although I do believe they only respect those who treat them well but also don't run after them when they discard.

Truth. The first time we reconciled she was mad at me that I didn't chase or or say anything to save the relationship. I didn't treat her badly, but I'm not perfect. I was always positive and encouraging, but then I missed this or that. After being treated badly for so long, how much more effort are you willing to give? My last act  in the relationship during the week of the breakup was sending her a nice flower gift because she claimed to be sick. That's at least leaving me on a high note once her dark colored glasses come off. My only regret about the moment of break up is that I wasn't in a proper head space to get any final words out of the way. No "so are we done or taking a break?" But I think my final words were impressionable enough. She said she wanted space, so I gave her space, right?

[FlyFish]

There is absolutely no way to win in these relationships whatsoever. The constant debate of should I back off or persue. My ex always needed her "breaks" (which was ok) but then when she needed Me I "had" to be there or things would go bad. I was always the one present and willing in the r/s... .More so than is normal, but I never knew where I stood. It was all about "her" and me being codependent didn't help. I just want her to realize this. but i know it is false hope. I still love her but BPD f****s up the best of good well intentioned people.

[Joem678]

Flyfish,

How long were her breaks?

[FlyFish]

First time was just a "break" in which both of us decided on NC for a month. Of course she broke this within two weeks and we got back together. I still wanted her so bad that I was willing.

The second was a breakup by her and it lasted a month. I went NC in this period and she was the one who reached out to me in an emotionally filled letter (email)... .Of course I fell right in because I was still ohooked. Our r/s lasted about 3 months after this. In this time I was a shell of my former self. My life was her and her alone.

The third and final... .She broke it up by a phone call after a night that we spent together. Such confusion. I stayed too long. A nearly 2 year long fulfilling relationship broken up by a phone call.

The first times she broke up I intuitively knew that it was not over if that makes sense. This last time was quite different. Finite. I even broke and called her out of desperation 2 weeks after which was stupid. Since then I have been about 3 months NC.

Man this sucks

[burritoman]

First time was just a "break" in which both of us decided on NC for a month. Of course she broke this within two weeks and we got back together. I still wanted her so bad that I was willing.

The second was a breakup by her and it lasted a month. I went NC in this period and she was the one who reached out to me in an emotionally filled letter (email)... .Of course I fell right in because I was still ohooked. Our r/s lasted about 3 months after this. In this time I was a shell of my former self. My life was her and her alone.

The third and final... .She broke it up by a phone call after a night that we spent together. Such confusion. I stayed too long. A nearly 2 year long fulfilling relationship broken up by a phone call.

The first times she broke up I intuitively knew that it was not over if that makes sense. This last time was quite different. Finite. I even broke and called her out of desperation 2 weeks after which was stupid. Since then I have been about 3 months NC.

Man this sucks

Sounds similar to my situation. I'm in the phone call business as well. She couldn't even dignify it with a face to face after almost 3 years. We live cities apart, but not 5 minutes before she called me she was talking about coming up the following night. I had the same feelings those first two times, that it wasn't really over yet. I had no real idea at the time, but my gut said otherwise. This time my gut is playing tricks on me. How did you realize your third time was final?

[FlyFish]

I just know her well enough to know that it was final I guess. the first two times she seemed uncertain.

This last time she was most certain. And who in h*** breaks a deep romantic relationship of 2 years over the phone. My only answer is that  pwBPD have the emotional capacity of a 5 year old. Hard to believe but her actions definitely spoke true in this regard.

It was a gut feeling as you state. The sad thing is I don't think I'm strong enough to stay away from her if she wants to try again. I would jump back in an instant my mind says no way but it doesn't follow my heart

[butterfly15]

I guess my point is that she hasn't made a real effort to cut me out of her life, which is uncharacteristic of her. It's driving me crazy trying to determine if she's officially done or just out roaming for a bit. Not saying that I will take her back if she tries, but this limbo state is kind of rattling my brain. I feel like I'm preparing.

i think I am here currently. It has been over a month. This is the longest we haven't spoken in 2 years time. He didn't block me on Facebook and I haven't tried to contact. I doubt he has blocked me on his phone either. I told him, He's a collector. He never truly says goodbye to anyone.

[JaneStorm]

I think they are literally emotionally retarded at the age that something awful happened; maybe like us all? However, they are SUPER stuck there. My BPDex is at ~ 21-22 yrs old. I don't know what happened, but he is really fixated on that era and acts like it and talks about that time just like it happened but when he devastates me 2 months ago? That was a LONG TIME AGO... .It is a shame for a 52 year old man. I can't imagine. I had a crap childhood like none other and I will try to write a book in these coming years but he can't even process his issues. Tragic and toxic.