Relation to BPD/NPD and commitment fears

[Marshmellow]

I've done so much reading on BPD and NPD characteristics... but am confused.

As I've mentioned earlier, my ex BF showed s/s of both. But mainly BPD, because of episodic rages over just ABT anything( never knew when or how he would get set off)

And major instability ... interpersonally.

My confusion lies in ... the beginning of us dating... I was pressured to to spend as much time as possible with him, him stating" I'm not one to let the grass grow under my feet too long. Life is short... I know what I want... in a partner... ". " either were in this together now... or let's part ways"...

At the time, it made some sense... because we aren't in our 30's... and time is passing by. I too wanted to build something real, and lasting.

After deciding to give it a go... ( we enjoyed the outdoors, had things in common... on the surface) . once he saw I was real... putting the time and energy in... he started pulling back...

initiating the push nonsense... starting petty arguments... and going on and on... not being able to drop it... ( hammering me verbally).

One minute saying" I'm so glad ur in my life, I think we are such a great match... don't you?"

Then by the end of the day, knocking me off the pedestal... with statements I.e.

" I just don't think we are comparable. " " I'm very structured, and can't tolerate your haphazard style of getting things done"

It hurt my feelings... right after being so positive...

As soon as I pulled away, or stated it wasn't normal to go from from one extreme to the other...

in such a short time... ( feeling hurt and confused), then pulling me back in started up again. I felt like I was in a fog most of the time I realize now looking back.

It got to be too much to handle... and pure craziness... I ended it in a nice way, as possible, but cared deeply for him... and still do. I miss the good side of him... but as in so many others... The Jeckyl Hyde thing... Mind f@*!<^• I called it... and projection made me feel like I was going nuts!

Have any of u experienced this from BPDSO... wanting an attachment... and love, but pushing away in mean cruel ways?

Thanks for reading... and your input is appreciated.

Aldactone

[apollotech]

Hi Marshmallow,

What you're describing is pretty typical of a BPD relationship. It's not a commitment phobia per se, but rather engulfment, which is a hallmark characteristic of BPD. Just when things get to moving along pretty well, when everything seems at its best, the pwBPD will feel engulfed in his/her partner and either pull away or drive the other person away, or both. When the relationship spawns the most intimate moments, the pwBPD generally comes unglued. Sadly, there are many stories on these boards where the unexpected goodbye's occur right after engagements, marriages, etc.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Marsh-

Yes, most of us here were on the receiving end of "unstable interpersonal relationships", which is a trait of the disorder.  It is very hurtful, confusing, and I agree, a mindfck.

It comes out of the fact that a borderline does not have a 'self' of their own, so must attach to someone to 'complete' themselves and feel whole.  And once the attachment is formed, a borderline fears abandonment full time, and also, since someone with the disorder does not have that 'self' of their own, they also fear engulfment, literally losing themselves in another person.  None of that is conscious, it's hardwired into the personality and just shows up as feelings, which in turn dictate behaviors, specifically the push/pull behavior: if a partner is getting too far away emotionally, pull them back, if they're getting too close emotionally, push them away, always trying to straddle that fence between the fears of abandonment and engulfment, a fence that is always moving.  Stressful yes?  And then we got the stress shared with us.

And none of that had anything to do with you, and it would have happened with anyone, even though it happened to us and it was very hurtful.  Does knowing that help any?

(marshmellow is so much cooler than marshmallow BTW)

[JQ]

Hi Marshmallow,

I see you have about a dozen post here so I want to say hi and welcome you ... .glad you found us but sorry for the reason you're here. Like others none of us will judge you, but will give you some guidance ... .tell you what worked for us and what didn't. Like most if not all of us, you're probably a NON or a codependent ... .the perfectionist ... .the good news is we can adjust our behavior to learn to say no to the verbal, emotional, mental and sometimes the physical abuse. We can learn why we are the way we are and adjust our behavior to make better choices for ourselves ... .

To answer your question ... .my exBPDgf did the same thing ... .in the beginning we spent hours on the phone all hours of the night ... .I would go into work with 1-3 hours a sleep a day for days on end ... .taking cat naps in my car so I wouldn't fall asleep at my desk. Because of the long distance between us we would meet in the middle and spend hours in a hotel room again getting very little sleep ... .It was crazy times ... .fun at times ... .but it was very much like a roman candle. Bright at first but all to soon you're in the dying arc ... .your bright light fading fast into the darkness. It was classic BPD pull behavior ... .I know that now looking back on things.

I would echo both apollo & fromheeltoheal in that it's a serious behavior / mental illness that has absolutely NOTHING to do with you. The reason for the behavioral illness happened long before you were in the picture and studies have shown that they'll most likely have it for the rest of their life ... .at best live a semi normal life but ONLY with serious commitment to DBT therapy & mood stabilizers meds and that might go on for the rest of their life. My exBPDgf has been in and out of therapy for 25 plus years with several therapist and still has severe behavioral issues. You should know the 3 C's of BPD ... .YOU didn't Caust it! YOU can't Control it! YOU can't Cure it!

Heal describes the disorder perfectly ... .and it also applies to my mother who is BPD ... .I grew up as the oldest of 5 in a crazy house. We never knew what we would come home from school too ... .even to this day her s/o tells me she has the Dr. Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde behavior I grew up with and really at her age of 70 plus there is nothing anyone can do to correct it much less modify it. I went back not long ago "1/2 way across the country" to help her through some medical issues. I quickly remember why I was home 21 days in 20 years ... .and question myself what the hell I was doing. She begged me to come help her, she missed me, she needed me, etc etc etc ... .so like the good son I did. Within days I was completely stressed out ... .she raged and through things though out the house ... .she emotionally & mentally abused her s/o almost on a daily basis in addition to anyone else that was around.  Mr Hyde came out much more then Dr. Jekyll did and it was the classic push behavior of BPD.  It was all I could do NOT to put a pillow over her head ... .;-)  I'm kidding ... .sort of ... ..

So after one day with her home health care nurse and the things she said I determined that she was well enough for me to leave and head back to better weather and away from the daily if not hourly abuse she dished out and told her I was leaving to get back to my life. Dr. Jekyll came back out and she told me to stay, she needed me, etc.  I told her I needed to go she didn't need me she was in good health. Since my return she has "butt dialed me" only to not talk to me on the phone and yell at her dogs ... .more then several times. She DEMANDED that I come back for Thanksgiving ... .I passed for good reasons. She called me yesterday to update me on both the "family drama" that happened during Thanksgiving ... .and to update me on her medical condition. I'll spare you the details on the drama but I'm sure you have an pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. She told me she had a "accident" a week ago. And that is when she told me she felt "dizzy" in the kitchen and fell hitting her head on the granite counter top and hitting the floor hard. Her "head" is fine ... .just a bump I'm told but she has stress fractures of a couple of vertebra ... .yep you guessed it. She wants me to come back to stay with her & take care of her and stay though Christmas ... .the classic pull of BPD.  

Through a lot of therapy, homework, reading, and this sight I've learned as a classic NON codependent to say no in a way that is acceptable to someone with BPD ... .as much as it can be acceptable to them.  She continues to yell at me on the phone to come home ... .but I tell her no. She tries like your ex to manipulate me but the force is strong within me ... .hehehe.  Her old Jedi mind tricks will not work with me     As hard as it is, it's in my OWN personal interest to remove toxic people from my life ... .blood or not ... .she let her own flying monkey's out of their cage ... .it's up to her to put them back in ... .if she even wants to.

So I've had to learn to say no to both my BPD mother, BPD sister and not one but at least 2 severe BPD gf's.  It's been a tough thing to do to say no to someone you care and love ... .but you have to learn to love yourself first ... .you have to learn to take care of your needs first ... .that you are responsible for you and only you. I'm in a much better place ... .this is your brain ... .this is your brain on BPD ... .ANY QUESTIONS?    

as Heal has said ... .this would of happen to anyone ... .IT'S NOT YOU!   You only fault is that you are a caring and loving person who wanted what you didn't have growing up like the rest of us ... .you like the rest of us would like to have someone in our life that loves us for us and that you can have a mutually respectful loving, caring relationship.  Your time with him isn't for nothing ... .you have learned and grown ... .you know what you want ... .you know what to avoid.

Respect yourself ... .like yourself ... .love yourself ... .the rest will come soon enough.

JQ

[C.Stein]

Have any of u experienced this from BPDSO... wanting an attachment... and love, but pushing away in mean cruel ways?

Yes, I guess more or less.  I personally remember on several occasions just when I started to feel much closer to my ex emotionally she would do something to hurt me.  I don't know if this was intentional or not, perhaps it was just coincidence.  I wish I could remember exactly the events each time this happened, but I do clearly remember on at least 3 occasions "feeling" my heart open up and then getting hurt shortly after, time frame unknown.  Eventually I learned to keep my distance emotionally.  

This wasn't something I did consciously, but I remember becoming more distant and the desire to be physical intimate with her became less.  I think this is because our physical intimacy was at times extremely emotionally intense, which naturally drew me in closer to her.  I think I essentially became scared of being hurt.  I was learning subconsciously that being close to her also meant being hurt.  

So I got to a point of a "safe" emotional distance where things she did that hurt me wouldn't hurt as much.  That started a relatively stable period in our relationship but we weren't being physical intimate nearly as much as before or spending as much time together, which was not what either one of us wanted.  

In retrospect I am very disappointed in myself for allowing this to happen; for allowing her to cause me to start building walls around my heart; for allowing her to cause me to feel the need to distance myself from her.  While I can see why I did it now what I can't see (remember) is why I didn't find a way to prevent it from happening.  This also naturally leads me to question if I had found a way to prevent my need to protect my heart would things have been different.  I do remember taking time to discuss with her the things that were hurting me, but I don't remember if anything was really resolved.

[burritoman]

This wasn't something I did consciously, but I remember becoming more distant and the desire to be physical intimate with her became less.  I think this is because our physical intimacy was at times extremely emotionally intense, which naturally drew me in closer to her.  I think I essentially became scared of being hurt.  I was learning subconsciously that being close to her also meant being hurt.  

So I got to a point of a "safe" emotional distance where things she did that hurt me wouldn't hurt as much.  That started a relatively stable period in our relationship but we weren't being physical intimate nearly as much as before or spending as much time together, which was not what either one of us wanted.  

Yep, the same thing happened to me. It reached a point where we weren't having mutual sex anymore, I was just feeding it to her. She more or less demanded my affection to the point where I started backing off emotionally. I ended up denying her a lot, which caused her to get extremely upset about how she's losing the "closeness" from me. Looking back, it was really just about her and her needs. In the end it was one of her big reasons for wanting to leave. She needed her coffee. Direct quote - "Sex is like my coffee, and if I don't get it I turn into a massive B."

For most of the relationship it was her trying to figure me out and where I stood. Near the end, though, I finally started to gain an acceptance for her and considered her to potentially be my life partner. As soon as I started to open up more and let her in, she distanced.