Projection - he called me emotionally abusive and told me I need to "reconcile"

[unicorn2014]

I woke up to this message in 3 different places.

-

Good morning

I love you very much Sugar Boo. Your care and welfare is always in my thoughts and prayers.

I want to be with you. In fact it is what we both have wanted for a long time. Regardless of how you are currently devaluing our past it had been very good for us both. However in order for things to move fwd  we are going to have a frank talk soon about you emotionally abusing me. And the steps you are going to need to take to stop & reconcile yourself to me so we can put this behind us so we can move fwd. I believe you can change and that we can move fwd together. I want be continue to be in a relationship with you as I value you and what we have built together.

I hope your day at church is a positive one. truly I wish we were going together.

Try to be kind to yourself. I am looking fwd to hearing from you after church.

I love you

-

Good morning

I love you very much.

I want to be with you. However we are going to need to talk later about you emotionally abusing me. And the steps you are going to need to take to reconcile yourself to me so we can put this behind us so we can move fwd. I believe you can change and that we can move fwd together

I hope your day at church is a positive one. truly I wish we were going together.

Try to be kind to yourself. I  going fwd to hearing from you after church.

I love you

And on Facebook messenger

-

Good morning

I love you very much.

I want to be with you. However we are going to need to talk later about you emotionally abusing me. And the steps you are going to need to take to reconcile yourself to me so we can put this behind us so we can move fwd. I believe you can change and that we can move fwd together

I hope your day at church is a positive one. truly I wish we were going together.

Try to be kind to yourself. I  going fwd to hearing from you after church.

I love you

Yesterday I had asked him to not wear the wedding ring he was wearing for me until he got divorced from his wife. He totally dysregulated, hang up on me more then once then got mad when I wouldn't pick up when he called back. This was all after 9 at night. He got mad at me for not watching our show after he asked if we were going to because I have church today.

I told him I would not participate in conversations where he was critiquing me, that we were each entitled to our own feelings, and the only thing that will fix this is him getting a divorce.

I know what form flier would say, less contact.

I've read what happens when people try to go no contact when they are detaching.

I haven't decided to leave yet however I also am not going to tolerate being called abusive by the man who deceived me to get into and stay in a relationship with me.

This is the kind of thing that used to spin me out before BPD family. I came here because I was getting the run message from friends.

What am I hearing from you is that less contact will improve the relationship. That is very hard to do when he is in my face like this issuing ultimatums. I never expected less contact would mean I would have to ignore his attempts to contact me. I'm definitely at a loss here and quite confused. I don't want to be alone with his thoughts anymore which is why I am bringing them here, for a sanity check.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pallavirajsinghani]

You are unhappy with him.

He is unhappy with you.

Both of you are expressing your individual unhappiness with each other quite frankly, openly, with no subterfuge.

So you want him to change.

He wants you to change.

Question is which one of you will take the first step and to which direction will that first step lead to.

This has been an impasse for quite some time I believe.

Neither of you is ready to let go... .neither of you fully accepts the status quo without reservation.

He knows this, you know this, we know this... .and perhaps your daughter knows this too.

[Grey Kitty]

I haven't decided to leave yet however I also am not going to tolerate being called abusive by the man who deceived me to get into and stay in a relationship with me.

OK, he is saying you are emotionally abusing him. Now what? I see a few choices... .

1. If you see anything you are doing that feels like emotional abuse, stop it, and apologize. It is worth briefly examining yourself and your actions to double-check. [NOTE: If you had described doing something that felt emotionally abusive to me, I'd say so now. Since I'm not a fly on the wall when you talk to him, I cannot confirm its absence, but I don't see anything specific]

2. If you are feeling concerned and want to work on your r/s with him, reply with something like this... .

"I try not to be emotionally abusive, and do not know where I am failing. Would you please explain to me what I am doing that is hurting you, so I can do better in the future?"

And let the conversation go from there. (This will be difficult for you to hear, regardless of the amount of truth you find in his explanation.)

3. If you are instead feeling angry, hurt, and confused, and cannot constructively talk to him about these accusations, tell him you aren't ready to talk about it now.

[Grey Kitty]

Oh yeah... .if you feel that he is being emotionally abusive toward you, you probably aren't going to find a conversation about how you are emotionally abusing him to be safe or productive.

Especially if his accusations of emotional abuse are part of his pattern of abuse aimed at you!

[unicorn2014]

Palla, how do I change and let go?

Grey kitty, I will try your approach if he responds to me. I said

No

Me having a different feeling then you is not emotionally abuse.

You are entitled to yours I am entitled to mine.

You being loving doesn't change the fact you are critiquing me.

I will not participate in conversations where I am being critiques.

Two people at church asked me where he was and I said he's not divorced yet and one of them said she didn't know he was married.

Exactly.

What he said was emotionally abusive is I said anyone can wear a ring. He wants me to believe that wearing a ring is a big deal for him. I never asked him to wear a ring for me. What I meant when I said that is that wearing a ring doesn't mean anything to me, showing me the escrow papers will.

[Grey Kitty]

He has bad boundaries. To keep your mind clear of the FOG, anger, and various other things, you need very clear boundaries. Yours need to be 10X as good to help you deal with his poor ones.

I'm speaking of boundaries as the understanding of the line where he stops and you begin. I'm not speaking specifically about ENFORCING boundaries, which is where you take an action to keep him from intruding past your personal boundaries.

Him wearing a ring or not wearing a ring -- Good boundaries say that action is his.

You feeling angry/hurt/resentful when he wears that ring -- Good boundaries say that feeling is yours.

Him feeling loving and bonded toward you when he wears that ring -- Good boundaries say that feeling is his.

Either one of you sharing your feelings about that ring -- Not a boundary issue.

You telling him not to wear the ring -- You are overstepping his boundaries by trying to control his action.

You telling him you won't be around him if he's married to somebody else and wearing the ring -- You are staying within your boundaries, changing your own actions to protect yourself. [This would be an example of boundary ENFORCEMENT]

... .I don't see any emotional abuse on your part in this issue.

I *DO* see that your feelings about him wearing THAT ring have to come across as rejection and hurt him.

Please remember--you do not need to convince him that boundaries work this way. If you have good, healthy boundaries, actions to defend yourself when he tries to overstep them will be easy and natural... .well, eventually; it will take a while to get that used to them.

Don't let him pull you into a circular argument about what are good boundaries, what is emotional abuse, etc.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you grey kitty, he kept talking about his ring over and over again, showing me he was wearing it, telling me he was wearing it for me, telling me "I have one of these". He would tell me how he would flash it at women who hit on him. I finally got up the nerve to ask him not to wear until he got divorced. He wasn't upset by that but by the fact I said anybody could wear a ring. What I meant is I know married men who don't, divorced men who do, women going through a divorce who do. He asked me if I wasn't wearing my ring for that reason I said it wasn't that strict , although I'm not wearing it now. I haven't heard back from him.

[Grey Kitty]

"anybody can wear a ring"

In other words, his choice to wear the ring isn't giving you confidence in your r/s with him.

I can see why he would be upset by that. It has to smart.

Yeah, it is kinda harsh. But not emotional abuse.

His comment about flashing it at women who flirt with him was ... .interesting, but not something that would give me that much confidence either. In fact it makes me wonder why women are flirting with him, as women most often wait for a guy to approach them in the flirting game.

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty when I said it wasn't in a flippant manner, I was thinking of real life people who wear a ring who either are divorced or going through a divorce, it's for show.

In terms of why women are hitting on him, he is handsome and charming as well as introverted and sensitive.

I suppose I could apologize to him for speaking harshly to him although I wasn't intending it as harsh, I was actually being empathetic and letting him know that the escrow papers will let me know he's serious.

Thank you so much for walking me through this.

I've had to tell three people in two days who have asked about the wedding or him that he's not divorced yet and two of them didn't know he was married.

I will feel the shame of being in a relationship with a married man because I know I didn't know he was married when I started talking to him. He hid that from me. I also didn't know his divorce hadn't been filed until I looked it up.

It's heart breaking. I haven't heard from him and I haven't contacted him.

****

Update, he just called me. If he brings up last night I will apologize for speaking harshly to him even though it wasn't intentional and if he accuses me of emotional abuse I will tell him I will not participate in a conversation where I am accused of emotional abuse.

Two women at church today asked me where he was, and one of them didn't know he was married.

I am glad these women are responding the way they are because it lets me know what he's doing is not ok.

[unicorn2014]

It's too late for me to modify so I will finish by saying he called me and did not say a word about his previous text message.

I did not say anything about the two women who asked about him.

I guess we are just going to carry on.

He told me he loved me and he missed me, as usual.

[Grey Kitty]

That he didn't bring up issues that were bugging him earlier is not surprising. Of course he may bring them up later when he's feeling differently.

Did you enjoy the call?

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty yes and I facetimed him and he was fine. No mention of this morning's texts. Onwards and upwards?

[Grey Kitty]

One of my rules was never bring up anything mentioned in a previous dysregulation.

If it is forgotten, you win. Don't poke a sleeping bear!

If he remembers and is still upset, he'll ask again, and you at least had a chance to prepare yourself... .

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty, so I won this round. what do I do if he brings it up later? I think I will adopt your rule for myself. Last night I thought he hung up the FaceTime call before 9 but he said he didn't. I don't think I handled it really well last night. He kept calling attention to his ring, telling me he would get it a shim for it , and I finally said I didn't think he should wear it until he got divorced. When the FaceTime call ended I assumed he ended it and was relieved. He said he didn't end it and wanted to reconnect. I did not.

[Grey Kitty]

Grey kitty, so I won this round. what do I do if he brings it up later?

Well, the crap that comes up in one dysregulation is pretty similar to the crap that comes up in another dysregulation. Or perhaps there are a few variations that usually pop up.

For me it is a lot more important to focus on how I'm being treated and how I'm treating her, because it is very easy to get lost in the "facts" or other stated things that we end up arguing about. And when you get lost in the subject, you may not realize that it is being presented to you in an unproductive or even abusive fashion.

Keep your contact with him to enjoyable things or necessary things, avoiding as much of the negativity as you can and also limiting the things which piss you off even though they are nice/kind/affectionate in intention on his part.

I hope you find more space to spent time with your own feelings--I'm pretty sure that as long as you are kinda angry and kinda conflicted, your ability to make things go well with him are really limited.

[unicorn2014]

Grey Kitty, I think you are right and today he said something that really pissed me off. We were talking about drug classes and he mentioned something that the guy who I had a short term relationship before I met him said to me about anti-depressants and inability to orgasm. That really made me angry. I told him that man was a seriously damaged person and had no boundaries. There was dead silence until I finally decided to end the call.

I didn't know when I first met him that I shouldn't tell him about my previous relationships.

I think I read something recently about people with borderline having no boundaries at all.

I told him that no man today would talk to me like that.

Then I realized a friend of mine was joking to me today about women his age needing adult diapers but that's still not the same thing as what the guy was talking about not being able to orgasm on antidepressants.

I probably spoke harshly to him but I don't really care. I was irritated that he brought that up. That guy was a jerk to me and he even admitted it so for him to bring it up made no sense.

I had to review my emotional regulation material from two years ago dealing with anger, and I found out that resentment is actually a part of disgust, not anger.

The other negative emotion I mentioned before is shame. I have this relationship that I feel I have to hide my friends because they would all say that is no good if I told them he was not divorced yet. Someone at church did say yesterday "I didn't know he was married." Two people in 3 days said that to me. I'm very angry that I kept his secret for so long.

So this is about improving the relationship.

No more visits, no more rings.

Now I just get to sit with the anger and the resentment (disgust) and the shame.

I look at the leaving board and I don't want to be over there. A lot of people are hurt, angry. I don't want to join that crowd.

[Skip]

Two women at church today asked me where he was, and one of them didn't know he was married.

I think it might help to step back, unicorn2014, and look at where you are driving the bus. With the current dynamic,  the relationship is going to crash and burn with a lot of resentment on both sides that is going to be hard, if not impossible to repair.

You are resentful about the divorce not happening (very understandable).

You are coping in an unhealthy way (and so is he). He is seeing it as abusive. I understand why he feels this way. Your creating chaos for him with no resolution (getting a divorce). To him this all feels like manipulation.  He is likely digging in harder.

I also understand why you feel the way you do. When you made those comments to the women in church you are starting to damage him in the eyes of your friends - truth or not.

This is not about facetime, or rings, or calling you sweetie... .this is about a monumental disagreement over the divorce.

Grey kitty, so I won this round.  

Nobody is winning - blood is flowing - everyone is loosing - this is just drama. Since you are powerless over the real issue, you are finding satisfaction in these little battles.  It's human nature and its toxic.

If you think putting all this negativity into the relationship is going to motivate him to resolve, I don't think it will. If, you want to marry this man, you made your reasonable needs clear (regarding his divorce), and if you want to put pressure on, the responsible way to do that is to step away and let him work through what "is" and "is not" important.

Battling over all this small stuff is killing the relationship.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Skip, I actually had a really positive conversation with him just now. I had told him that these three women had asked about him over the past three days and I had to tell two of them he was married. He told me how it looks to them.


I also understand how I got to this place, it actually started in 2009 in a previous relationship. That man was not married but he was outside my faith and acting out with him is what put me  in a position to get into my next relationship which led to my current relationship: the end of the road for me.

I have worked through many issues with my current partner and now I am just waiting for him to get a divorce. It is an immoral situation so there is no point in talking about it with my friends, whether they are Christians or they are sober.

I've also realized the values that my dad taught me are what allowed me to get into this position in the first place. I was not raised a Christian, or with any faith at all, and when push came to shove the values I was raised with presided over the values I took on as an adult.

I now know I violated my own values in order to get into my current relationship, but I didn't know it at the time. I was filled with so much despair at the time I met my current partner that I just didn't care. Well, things have gotten a lot better since then and now I have to deal with the consequences of that.

(I should add that my current partner claims we have the same values. He calls himself a follower of Christ, reads the Bible, prays, has gone to church just this year. He actually was partially raised in the faith I converted to, and partially raised in another one. That actually was one of the big selling points for me.)

(Finally I should add I was just doing some DBT work around resentment this afternoon where I actually learned it was a part of disgust and not a part of anger, which addressees what you said about a conflict in values. I would never act like my partner if I was in his position, so I know there is a part of me that is judging him. Disgust is a very difficult emotion for me to process, its probably even more difficult then anger.)

I've made it very clear to my current partner that I am waiting for him to get a divorce. In terms of how long I'm willing to wait. I don't know. I just know right now I'm not willing to go over to the leaving board.  

[Skip]

... .acting out with him is what put me  in a position to get into my next relationship which led to my current relationship: the end of the road for me... .

OK. So you know you are acting out, devaluing him, and in a dysfunctional (destructive) coping mode. And you have done it before and it has crashed other relationships.

Don't drag this relationship through this roller coaster - you will have nothing at the end except as very resentful man.

Make a choice. Accept him as a married guy and give him another time line, don't accept him and tell him you will wait under he has the divorce (as long as it doesn't take to long), or explain its time to part as you can see that you are two are at an unsolvable impasse.

These little battles are not helping anyone.

[unicorn2014]

... .acting out with him is what put me  in a position to get into my next relationship which led to my current relationship: the end of the road for me... .

OK. So you know you are acting out, devaluing him, and in a dysfunctional (destructive) coping mode. And you have done it before and it has crashed other relationships.

No no no no. What I am saying by acting out is having sex outside of marriage. I'm not devaluing him. He accuses me of that. Just because he feels devalued doesn't mean I'm doing it. I talked about this with a past therapist years ago.

No no no no no. I'm saying I acted out (had sex outside of marriage) years before I met him which allowed me to act out with him.

Not at all.

The first man I acted out with actually called me and apologized to me for being such a jerk to me.

How is that I could misrepresent myself so strongly on this board? What you are describing is borderline behavior and I have never been diagnosed with borderline nor behaved in that manner.

Don't drag this relationship through this roller coaster - you will have nothing at the end except as very resentful man.

I am not. I am not borderline. I have had two significant relationships in my life: my marriage, and this relationship. The acting out is a "fling" I had in between my marriage and my current relationship when I just got fed up. The other relationship I was referring to was an online relationship with a married man who didn't end up leaving his wife for me, but got divorced shortly after our relationship ended. That is what I was talking about the trajectory. It started with my sexually acting out, and when I say that I'm speaking as a Christian because any sex outside of marriage is acting out, doesn't matter if both people are single.

Make a choice. Accept him as a married guy and give him another time line, don't accept him and tell him you will wait under he has the divorce (as long as it doesn't take to long), or explain its time to part as you can see that you are two are at an unsolvable impasse.

I'm working my butt off on radical acceptance, believe me.

[KateCat]

I'm kind of shocked at what seems to be this older man's lack of concern for your financial future. How can he expect you to wait indefinitely for marriage if you and your daughter both face significant loss of monthly support when she turns 18?

What does Plan B look like for you and for your daughter, should he fail to keep his promises? Maybe you have already begun to prepare for that alternate future. It will be effort well invested, I believe. 

[unicorn2014]

Kate cat, may I ask what you are referring to about lack of monetary support for my daughter? I am not clear on what you are thinking here. I do not depend on anyone for support. My boyfriend helps me out with expenses when he can and has said he will help me pay for her college education as well as buy a house big enough for the three of us.

. In terms of preparing for when my daughter leaves home,  I am not sure what you are referring to here either.

Can you please clarify your question so I can better answer it.

I am not depending on my boyfriend for my future at all. I am very independent and he would be the first to tell you that. At this point in my life a real marriage is going to be a real challenge.

[KateCat]

Oh good, I'm relieved to hear that you are not facing financial insecurity for the future.  I had developed in my mind the picture of a stay-at-home single mother whose ex was not providing much in the way of child support and who was going to come to the end of receiving other social support when her daughter turned 18.

That mental image has been my own source of feeling that you could not afford to let this present relationship blind you to practicality or rob you of more precious time needed to plan and prepare for the future.

I have felt that the man was toying with you because he had nothing to lose and you had everything to lose. But it sounds as though that is not the case at all.

[unicorn2014]

I'm not sure what you mean by other forms of social support.

If you're talking about my career, I've been dealing with that since I divorced. I had created and managed a home based business for my ex and was also going to college at the time to further my own career. I did experience some major setbacks when I was diagnosed with PTSD .

He's actually helping me reset my career, as now I'm going in a different direction then when I was younger .

[unicorn2014]

Skip made some interesting comments yesterday.

OK. So you know you are acting out, devaluing him, and in a dysfunctional (destructive) coping mode. And you have done it before and it has crashed other relationships.

Don't drag this relationship through this roller coaster - you will have nothing at the end except as very resentful man.

Make a choice. Accept him as a married guy and give him another time line, don't accept him and tell him you will wait under he has the divorce (as long as it doesn't take to long), or explain its time to part as you can see that you are two are at an unsolvable impasse.

These little battles are not helping anyone.

As I told Skip, I am not acting out, devaluing, in a dysfunctional coping mode, and the only other relationship I had was my marriage which I chose to end. Nor am I dragging this relationship through a rollercoaster.

I wanted to address the accusation of devaluing as the pwBPD used to accuse me of that years ago and I talked to my therapist at the time about it. He told me that just because the pwBPD feels devalued doesn't mean that I am doing it, but it does mean that his feelings are real.

(modified to add: my pwBPD did not accuse me of devaluing him yesterday but skip accusing me of devaluing him pushed that button so I thought I would bring it up here to let people know I already dealt with that issue years ago. The last time I talked to that therapist was the last time my pwBPD was verbally abusive and I told that therapist about BPD family.)

*******

I am trying very hard not to participate in fantasizing about the future with my pwBPD. It is very difficult as my pwBPD does it all the time. Yesterday I made the mistake of telling my pwBPD that I wanted to wear the ring he gave me (as it is a very nice ring that I had picked out and it had become a part of me), but I realized after I told him that it didn't matter how nice the ring was, what it represented to me was unacceptable. I know that Skip says the ring is unimportant, but not to me. It represented something I believed in that wasn't real. I know Skip also said in a previous response "if I want to marry this guy", I don't know if I mentioned it before, but the marrying part was my pwBPD idea, not mine. Just so you know, I don't think a woman should lead the path to marriage. I did that in my first marriage and I had to end it. I won't do that again.

*******

The timeline I gave my pwBPD is that if he doesn't have it together by the time my daughter graduates from high school, we're done. That gives him 2.5 more years.

Where I am at today is not accepting him but waiting for him to get a divorce, which is what I told him I am doing.

*******

I wanted to bring up a couple more phrases the pwBPD uses that push my buttons:

"I guess I am confused"

"I guess I am missing something"

or

"I find that perplexing"

(Modified to add: I feel that these phrases actually start arguments, and I called my pwBPD to tell him that those phrases push my buttons.

as well generally question my reality. That really gets on my nerves. I find those statements to be judgmental of me, because they are letting me know that he does not approve of or agree with how I am thinking. I often tell him just because he doesn't agree with me doesn't mean I am wrong. I think these phrases lead to circular arguments, and I'm trying not to pick them up. For me, telling him they push my buttons is a precursor to not picking it up because it is letting him know how those phrases affect me.)

I realized this morning that my pwBPD really needs our experiences to match up and if they don't, he gets upset.

Yesterday afternoon we had a conversation about the fact that he thinks we were having two different experiences when we were happy. I said no we weren't, I was happy then. However I didn't tell him that now I realize that happiness was built on a lie.

In terms of damaging him in the eyes of others by telling them he's not divorced yet: I don't want to keep his secret any longer.

My pwBPD claims he doesn't feel resentment, I know the resentment is mine, and I now know that resentment is a part of disgust, not anger, according to the dbt model. There are other feelings charts that have resentment coming from hateful which comes from anger. Since I am using opposite action to try and change my emotion of resentment as it is very unpleasant, I am following the dbt model.

[Notwendy]

Unicorn, if someone accused you of being a pink elephant, or anything that you are completely certain you are not, would you consider it? Or would you think that is pretty far out and just leave it at that.

Because, you know, quite certainly, that you are not a pink elephant. You are also not a product of someone else's thoughts about you. You are you. However, what you can not control is how someone else thinks. Someone can think you are a pink elephant and you can decide that this idea is just absurd.

In Skip's case, I think he is trying to help by pointing out certain behaviors. However, IMHO, what is suggested is up to you to decide if it applies to you or not. I used the pink elephant example because it is so far fetched. Most of what people say to us are not as far fetched as that, which illustrates the idea that what someone else says to you is up to you to decide about.  If you think it may be true, then the next choice might be to consider the idea. If it isn't true, then what is the need to defend?

One of the issues several of us face in relationships is our reactivity to something our partners may say, and also to what others say. For many of us on this board- we may say something because it is something to consider. This is similar to when I worked with a sponsor. She said somethings that bothered me. My tendency was to defend them. However, if I am open to suggestion, another option is to consider them. Thank goodness for a sponsor who made me uncomfortable at times as it led me to look at myself.

There will be times where your BF will say something that bothers you. Your choice is to react, defend, consider, or let it go. If 2.5 years is your time limit, then how will those 2.5 years be for you? The choice to be reactive or not is up to you. Your BF could get up one day and call you all kinds of things, but if they are not true, then his thinking doesn't make it true.

And if anyone else on this board says something to you, consider the "pink elephant" idea. If there is some truth in it, then it may be something to consider. If it isn't - and it is as false as calling you a pink elephant- which you are certain you are not, then you also have the choice to defend it or not. However, something that isn't true doesn't need to be defended.

IMHO, you have 2.5 years- do you wish for them to be spent thinking and analyzing each conversation? Or using that time for something else while keeping an eye on the relationship over time.

[patientandclear]

To all who are posting on Unicorn's threads -- I could of course be wrong, but it feels to me like she is manifesting pretty deep pain and hurt and damage to her feelings about the r/ship due to the extreme deception her BPD guy employed to get her into the r/ship and ever since, including possibly ongoing deception about his efforts or lack thereof to pursue the divorce. (Unicorn, apologies if this does not ring true to you--I know you are trying to start threads about more limited topics that feel more manageable--but so much of what surfaces in each thread for you seems to trace back to this fundamental anger and/or resentment about the core deception issues).

I feel like it might be helpful for the discussion to center on what to do about the deception issue. The other issues seem like sort of red herrings. And focusing on them when Unicorn continually speaks up about her fundamental hurt feels like enabling someone continuing to be hurt.

Can a r/ship truly survive and come back from this degree of deception? I don't pretend to know the answer, but it seems to me like that is actually the central issue.

[formflier]

  As I told Skip, I am not acting out, devaluing, in a dysfunctional coping mode, and the only other relationship I had was my marriage which I chose to end. Nor am I dragging this relationship through a rollercoaster.    

         Unicorn2014, Wanted to offer my perspective on the "entirety" of your posts so far.  As to devaluing.  My answer is that I'm not sure, I would have to think about this for a while.  As to acting out, absolutely there is a lot of acting out that I see (from you).  Many times when you post about things that you "tell" him,  the visual that I would like to attach to that is "tossing gas" at someone.  Perhaps the next thing you "tell" them is the match that goes with it.  It seems to me that as the conversation heats up that your Significant Other feels the heat, he wisely hangs up.  :)ue to the high amount of contact/reaching out that you both seem to do, this pattern repeats itself a lot, some days it seems like several times in a day.  This pattern is something you can control and decide to change   No permission needed from your SO.  Dragging the r/s through the rollercoaster.  I can see the visual and I believe you are in control of this.  From you stories it seems that your SO is a willing participant in this as well (most of the time).    Still, this is something you can change, regardless of if your SO wants it or agrees.  Very likely that patientandclear has boiled this down for you.  Also very likely that you may not be able to answer the question right now of if the r/s can survive this.    Eventually that question will have to be answered  Note, I've stopped counting how many timelines you have given your SO.  :)oubtful that giving him another timeline is going to change things (it hasn't worked in the past).  Long term timelines are generally problematic anyway for complex situations.  2.5 years is a long time for you to be in limbo.  Also, timelines provide a challenge to many pwBPD.  Very likely a pwBPD will get 95% done in 2.5 years and then "see" what you will do about it.    Focus on what you can control, build from there.          

FF

[Notwendy]

I think it is very understandable to feel hurt from deception.

I guess my post was also a "bigger picture" post. Many things will be said in conversations and from others. We can consider what things ring true for us, and what things do not. Otherwise our feelings would be constantly shifting moment to moment.

If the hurt from the betrayal is the bigger, most underlying issue, then it will be felt in other interactions.

A timeline would be for you. You can communicate it to your SO, but it is your timeline of how long you can wait. If he doesn't meet it, then it is your decision what to do.

[unicorn2014]

Patient and clear hit the nail on the head. I am not acting out. I am not leading the amount of contact. I am not devaluing. That is a hot button issue for me.

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I had to tell another person today that my boyfriend isn't divorced yet, a man, who said he didn't know that was the situation. He had asked when my boyfriend was coming to see me again.

*****

Patient and clear is asking the fundamental question .

I will respond to not Wendy and form flier when I get on my laptop.