Projection - he called me emotionally abusive and told me I need to "reconcile"

[unicorn2014]

Not Wendy patient and cleAr, a lawyer, is correct, and I told my boyfriend that this morning before reading her post. I am struggling with what is going on in the relationship itself. I say my boyfriend has until my daughter graduates to get it together.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier briefly I have not given my boyfriend multiple timelines , you are getting us confused. He is the one who has given me multiple timelines and I have posted about that. It got so bad I had to talk to one of my former therapists about that and he had to talk to my boyfriend.

****

I have always stated he had until my daughter graduated from high school. I had not wanted to break up with him before he moved it that's before I found out the divorce wasn't in the system.

[formflier]

Patient and clear hit the nail on the head. I am not acting out.  

         Perhaps, unicorn2014 could define what "acting out" means to her.  For me, when I read as post there her SO is "told" something by unicorn, that continues or escalates conflict and drama, I would consider that "acting out".  Especially when I try to consider if anything good can come of the "telling" of those things, and come up empty.          

FF    

[formflier]

  I have always stated he had until my daughter graduated from high school.  

         If this is the case, great!  First I have heard (read) of it.  I'll sum up my timeline comment to be that I've heard lots of timelines in unicorns posts (I guess debatable whose timelines they are) and I'm not aware of any timelines that have been "met".  To me they seem to shift or be hard to nail down.  A 2.5 year timeline, to me, seems like, .well I don't know how to describe it.  It seems to be too far away to have meaning.  I think the more important issue is what unicorn is going to do to take control of her r/s TODAY, tomorrow and in the upcoming weeks.          

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier I used acting out when I was talking about a short term relationship I had in 2009. It was acting out because I'm a Christian. It had nothing to do with my boyfriend. Skip picked that up and turned it into something else. Yesterday my boyfriend brought up that relationship and it triggered me. I said if I had not acted out, meaning had a sexual relationship outside of marriage in 2009, then I wouldn't have allowed my boyfriend into my life in 2012. Does that make sense? This is about my values.

[formflier]

Formflier I used acting out when I was talking about a short term relationship I had in 2009. It was acting out because I'm a Christian. It had nothing to do with my boyfriend. Skip picked that up and turned it into something else. Yesterday my boyfriend brought up that relationship and it triggered me. I said if I had not acted out, meaning had a sexual relationship outside of marriage in 2009, then I wouldn't have allowed my boyfriend into my life in 2012. Does that make sense? This is about my values.  

         Ah, I see.  You are defining acting out as sexual r/s outside of your marriage.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting you are doing that now.  I don't remember if you have discussed the amount/kind of sexual contact that you and your boyfriend (I'm assuming this is your new term for him) have had.  I do think that we should create a term for when you "tell" your boyfriend things that are not helpful for the r/s.  (even though you may feel that way)  How are you doing on taking the space you need in the r/s?          

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, again the timelines I have been talking about have been his, not mine, in fact it was a timeline issue that brought me to this site in the first place. His moving timeline has been a frequent complaint of mine, I dealt with it in therapy, my therapist talked to him about it. I'm not the one with the moving timeline. Remember I only just found out in September his divorced had been filed. I was under the impression since July 2012 that he had filed for divorce.

-----

The acting out was a relationship I had 5 years after

I divorced which I believed paved the road to the place I am now with my boyfriend/significant other/partner/"fiancé". Acting out in a marriage is called cheating and I never did that and that's why I find my boyfriend's actions with me so reprehensible . I was very unhappy in my marriage so I divorced long before I even allowed another man to set foot in my home.

[formflier]

  I was under the impression that you have posted about giving your boyfriend until such and such date to show papers and things like that.  Early on it seems like there was a bit countdown until the day you had told him to show you papers by.  If my memory serves me correct, a big story came out that he had told his lawyer to do something and it was the lawyers fault there was no divorce.  So the day came and went without you seeing "proof".  That was the kind of "timeline" I was talking about.  Where you decided if something doesn't happen by such and such date, then (something).    Do you remember something like that?          

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier in terms of taking time, my partner told me he would contact me at 5, so I'm not going to talk to him until then. He said he was doing that because he couldn't get a hold of me and I didn't like how he was talking to me. His phone got temporarily turned off due to fraud and I'm talking advantage of that. He's sent me Facebook messages I haven't read and maybe texts too.

*******

In terms of the timeline for showing me he filed, I asked him in June, he refused, so I looked it up in September and found out he had not. Then I told him he could not come see me until he filed.

*******

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, it is funny, my pwBPD often accused me of "throwing grenades", he used to call that a temperament trait. He puts a lot of value in temperament. He said others of my same temperament would do the same thing. He of course , did not accuse himself of that same behavior. In my adopted spiritual tradition, you accuse yourself, not others.

****

I will think on what you and skip are saying about devaluing and throwing grenades. I think it's interesting you are both accusing me of the same things the pwBPD has in the past.

[formflier]

  I think it's interesting you are both accusing me of the same things the pwBPD has in the past.  

         I really don't like the word "accuse".  It seems harsh.  To be clear, I'm not accusing you of anything.  I like to use "visuals".  If the "tossing gas" visual doesn't work for you, the throwing grenades visual works just fine for me.  I will put it this way.  From reading your posts, I have observed that you like to lob a lot of hand grenades towards your boyfriend.  I'm glad that you are going to think on this.    What would your life look like if you spent less time lobbing hand grenades and more time constructively discussing solutions?          

FF   

[formflier]

Formflier in terms of taking time, my partner told me he would contact me at 5, so I'm not going to talk to him until then. He said he was doing that because he couldn't get a hold of me and I didn't like how he was talking to me. His phone got temporarily turned off due to fraud and I'm talking advantage of that. He's sent me Facebook messages I haven't read and maybe texts too. ******* In terms of the timeline for showing me he filed, I asked him in June, he refused, so I looked it up in September and found out he had not. Then I told him he could not come see me until he filed. *******  

         I'm not seeing you "take" time that you need.  I'm seeing you enjoy "time off" that his is giving you and informing you of.  Taking time would (to me) look like this.  He says he will call you at 5.  You let him know you have planned to meditate (or spend time with daughter), the activity doesn't matter.  Perhaps you don't even tell him what you will do.  Anyway, you tell him that you will not be available until the next day at 5 and hope he will be available then.           

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier that's just it, I don't agree that  I throw grenades.

In terms of taking time off, I will think on this. Thank you for reminding me.

[unicorn2014]

This is the text I was referring to earlier

-

Ok well

Since I can not get ahold of you and until my situation changes I will plan in contacting you at 5pm pst

Then I got one at 11:50 where he says he missed getting my pics. His use of past tense pushes my buttons. Then I got one at 12:03pm where he said

It appears you have been ignoring me... .

Ok got it

Keep in mind what he said at 8:24am

-

Ok well

Since I can not get ahold of you and until my situation changes I will plan in contacting you at 5pm pst

Who is the one throwing grenades? Who is the one acting out?

[formflier]

This is the text I was referring to earlier

- Ok well Since I can not get ahold of you and until my situation changes I will plan in contacting you at 5pm pst

         Then I got one at 11:50 where he says he missed getting my pics. His use of past tense pushes my buttons. Then I got one at 12:03pm where he said

It appears you have been ignoring me, Ok got it

          Keep in mind what he said at 8:24am

- Ok well Since I can not get ahold of you and until my situation changes I will plan in contacting you at 5pm pst

         Who is the one throwing grenades? Who is the one acting out?

         I don't see anyone throwing grenades or acting out in this exchange.  If he contacts you at 5 I recommend you let it go to voicemail (or whatever is appropriate) and take the space you need to think about the grenade throwing.  Note:  I see where he says it appears you are ignoring him.  Comments like that are best to be left alone or "ignored".           

FF

[formflier]

Formflier that's just it, I don't agree that  I throw grenades.    

         If I have time, I will try to look back and find some examples.  They are there.  You are not a bad person because you throw them.  I've done it, and most likely will do it in the future.  But I realize that when I do that, it may feel satisfying to me, but there is a cost to the r/s.    I'm not all all suggesting that unicorn2014 becomes some sterile, "perfect" r/s partner that never negatively expresses herself.    I am suggesting that you getting an accurate view of how YOU participate in the r/s that you are in will give you a better chance to change the r/s dynamic.          

FF

[unicorn2014]

This is the text I was referring to earlier

-

Ok well

Since I can not get ahold of you and until my situation changes I will plan in contacting you at 5pm pst

Then I got one at 11:50 where he says he missed getting my pics. His use of past tense pushes my buttons. Then I got one at 12:03pm where he said

It appears you have been ignoring me... .

Ok got it

Keep in mind what he said at 8:24am

-

Ok well

Since I can not get ahold of you and until my situation changes I will plan in contacting you at 5pm pst

Who is the one throwing grenades? Who is the one acting out?

I don't see anyone throwing grenades or acting out in this exchange.

If he contacts you at 5 I recommend you let it go to voicemail (or whatever is appropriate) and take the space you need to think about the grenade throwing.

Note:  I see where he says it appears you are ignoring him.  Comments like that are best to be left alone or "ignored". 

FF

FF how is ignoring his facetime audio call at 5 not acting out? He is now claiming that he didn't exactly say that he wouldn't contact me until 5. I don't mind him calling me at 5. What I didn't like was being told to wait for his call at 5, because that's how it came across to me.

I agree to FT him at 5 earlier so I was not expecting him to text bomb me or tell me things like he "missed seeing my pics".

I think patient and clear hit the nail on the head.

Can I stay in this relationship with this amount of anger and resentment?

I do not know.

I heard somebody say something about if they wanted their job, that is what they were going to have put up with.

Well, if I want this relationship, this is what I'm going to have put up with. I get that now.

*******

I don't want to think about  throwing grenades. My boyfriend would say that about people in his office with a feeling temperament, he has a thinking temperament. I don't need to pick that up just because he says that.

Today I had to tell a third person that he was not divorced yet, and this person was neither a Christian nor sober and he said "Oh I didn't know that was the situation." I am beginning to realize it doesn't matter if your Christian or your sober, the situation is wrong, there are certain norms in society. My partner knows how our relationship looks to others. I am glad he does. I'm the one out there in the world dealing with that because I am the one that introduced him to everybody in my life. Each time a new person asks me where is my boyfriend and I have to tell them he hasn't gotten divorced yet it brings up a new resentment. In this case I told this person I wouldn't let my boyfriend come see me until he got a divorce. In terms of the word boyfriend, no, that's not the word  I would choose, but its common nomenclature, so I'll use it.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier that's just it, I don't agree that  I throw grenades.

If I have time, I will try to look back and find some examples.

They are there.  You are not a bad person because you throw them.  I've done it, and most likely will do it in the future.  But I realize that when I do that, it may feel satisfying to me, but there is a cost to the r/s. 

I'm not all all suggesting that unicorn2014 becomes some sterile, "perfect" r/s partner that never negatively expresses herself. 

I am suggesting that you getting an accurate view of how YOU participate in the r/s that you are in will give you a better chance to change the r/s dynamic.

FF

FF I agree with patient and clear that is going to be very difficult to bring this relationship back from the anger and hurt and resentment I feel.

I don't know if I can forgive my boyfriend and that is what I'm going to have to do if I'm going to want to move on.

The way he talks to me today is still a problem.

If I try to talk to him about how his speech is affecting me he'll dismiss it by saying I'm giving him a protocol lecture.

Yet in the past he got to claim I was devaluing him.

That's why when Skip brought that up it pushed my button because that upset me so much when my partner was labeling my behavior as such that I had to talk to my therapist about it.

My partner is very smart.

He bought and read SWOE and applied it to me.

This morning he asked me in a very harsh tone if I was dysregulated. I realized how painful that was and I apologized to him for asking him that and told him I would never ask him that again.

Grey Kitty has said I've spoken harshly to my partner in the past. I'll admit and accept that.

[formflier]

  Choosing not to answer a phone call is in no way "acting out" or throwing a grenade.  If the purpose of the non answer is to cause pain, then it could be labeled as passive aggressive (possibly) but if the purpose is to do things you need to do, it's jut doing what you need to do.  You have no obligation to talk to your boyfriend, nor he to you.    I understand you don't want to think about throwing grenades.  If you don't think about it, the behavior will likely continue.  Last:  There seems to be a new "vibe" in your threads of "having to" tell people all the details about him not being divorced.  I've asked the question before and haven't gotten an answer.    Why on earth is this anyone else business? Why tell anyone else about this?          

FF  

[formflier]

  Grey Kitty has said I've spoken harshly to my partner in the past. I'll admit and accept that.  

         If you can equate speaking harshly, to throwing grenades, my guess is we are talking about same stuff.   Listen, you are way, way, wrapped up in all of this.  You need space  One benefit of less talking to your boyfriend is less "problems" to think about and deal with.    Take space and let some healing take place.          

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, I want on my Facebook and this is what I found.

1:33pm

Your're  playing Games

Have fun

1:45pm

You can play without me I do not like these kind

legalistic games

I tried you did what you did so thank you letting me know where you are at

1:57pm

And since you have chosen to ignore  me until 5 after I had tried multiple times to explain my txt so be it

I called him on facetime audio twice and he did not answer.

I did not respond to the texts.

*******

In terms of "having to tell people all the details" not at all. People ask, I tell them a short and simple reply, he is not divorced yet, he can't come see me. No further explanation needed. I brought my boyfriend around to everyone I know so naturally people want to know when's the wedding, is he coming, when's he coming to see me again.

I think it is good for me to hear people's responses because that lets me know the proper response to someone who's not divorced yet who's having a relationship with another woman.

*******

Formflier, I know you think I need space and I'm trying to take it. I just showed you an example of  what happened when I tried reduce the contact for one day because of something he told me, today, and how my boyfriend treats me as a result.

[formflier]

   I called him on facetime audio twice and he did not answer.  

         This is not taking space.  As for people asking.  Just tell them a date hasn't bee set yet.  No other details needed.  What is going to happen if he gets divorced, you guys get married, and then lots of people that you bump into are asking you details about your relationship and why you chose to marry a guy that started a r/s with you when he was married.    You are creating drama that will follow you around and cause problems in the future.  Yes yes, I know you didn't know about the marriage when you started the r/s, no need to go there.   Your choice to spread private details of your r/s to others will come back to haunt you.  It is your choice (an nobody elses) to spread it.          

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier those aren't private details of our relationship those are the results of him trying to keep his marriage private and then his divorce private. I'm trying to own the fact that I allowed the relationship to continue after I found out he was married. That's why I traced it back to my post divorce, pre engagement relationship in 2009. I don't care if people wonder why I got into a relationship with a married man in the first place, I'm wondering that myself. Why did my partner see fit to target me?

******

I don't own those details of my relationship at all. Those are the details of the relationship that my partner tried to have with me that I finally rejected in September .

*******

As to why I called him? I was tired of him texting me and telling me I was ignoring him. Apparently he didn't hear me when I said we could FaceTime at 5.

[formflier]

  As to why I called him? I was tired of him texting me and telling me I was ignoring him. Apparently he didn't hear me when I said we could FaceTime at 5.

         Very likely he did hear you, but wanted to see if he could get a reaction out of you before then.   It worked.  If you are tired of him texting you, take your eyes somewhere else.  That is something you control    Instead, trying to call him and get him to stop, is something you don't control and there is very little history of that ever working.  Spend your energy on things that work.          

FF

[formflier]

Formflier those aren't private details of our relationship those are the results of him trying to keep his marriage private and then his divorce private. I'm trying to own the fact that I allowed the relationship to continue  after  I found out he was married.  

         I'll respect a difference of opinion on what is and isn't private.  When all this information (private or not) boomerangs back at some point in the future, please realize (then and now) that this is your choice, something you control to share all this information.          

FF  

[unicorn2014]

FF it's possible the call may have ended without me hearing it.

At any rate I hear what you are saying.

I don't like how he talks to me.

I think I've shown some good examples of his speech over the last two days.

So you are saying to ignore him when I don't like how he's talking to me?

[unicorn2014]

Formflier I don't want to be in a relationship that I have to keep private. I want to be in a straight ahead, above board and out in the open relationship.

My first marriage was difficult but at least during the marriage itself it was all those things. I miss that cleanness although I do not miss the marriage itself or my ex at all.

My ex husband was also sneaky with me before the marriage.

I just want a normal, straight ahead, above board, out in the open, relationship. I don't want secrets, privacy, discretion.

*******

Also all this information is the simple fact that he hasn't filed his divorce yet. I refuse to keep that a secret. One thing my dad has always said about me is that I am honest  and one thing I was taught to value by my mother is honesty. I have no shame in stating the truth. I want to own what happens to me when I tell the truth. I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to keep the reason why my partner is not here a secret.

*****

That brings up something grey kitty and I were talking about the other day, my partner's tendency to fantasize. Last night he told me before he hung up the FaceTime call that he was sorry he wasn't there. He wants to file his divorce so he can leave where he is because he doesn't like it there. He claims that's because he wants to be with me, however he told me before he met me he was looking at relocating to a different country, with no plan to divorce, and no plan to bring his wife.

******

When he told me last night he wished he were here I felt mad at him.

******

It takes a lot of energy to resist his fantasy and sometimes I don't have it in me to constantly be having to figure out how his words make me feel.

[formflier]

Formflier I don't want to be in a relationship that I have to keep private. I want to be in a straight ahead, above board and out in the open relationship.     I just want a normal, straight ahead, above board, out in the open, relationship. I don't want secrets, privacy, discretion.    

         Take a deep breath.  What are the chances that the relationship that you have with your SO can fit what you want?  You know what you want.  Your statements are clear and declarative.    They make sense to me.    What doesn't make sense to me is if you are clear about what you want, why you are choosing a relationship that doesn't have what you want in it?    Not looking for an explanation of deception or what you didn't know and when you didn't know it.  In the present (right now) you are clear about what you want.  And I will say that it has been clear to me that you have wanted things like this for a while (even though you haven't stated it as clearly as you have in this post).  It's also clear the type of r/s your boyfriend is offering and has been offering.  That seems stable (he is not changing).    There is a grand canyon between what you want and what he is offering.    So, what is unicorn2014 going to do about the grand canyon?          

FF      

[unicorn2014]

Thank you form flier, I think this will address patient and clear's concern that we deal with the deception.

That is why I am telling the truth to the people I know, to see if I can stand the shame I feel. I do not want to keep the truth about my relationship private anymore. I don't want to suffer with it alone anymore. I don't care what the consequences of telling the truth are.

*****


In terms of your question, if I can stand my ground and tell my truth about my relationship my fiancé/boyfriend is not divorced yet and deal with the ramifications of that, then I can stay in the Grand Canyon a little longer.

*****

I should also add that I'm actually trying to practice opposite action around my shame. Keeping my boyfriend's being married  a secret will not cure me of my shame. Making a simple factual statement about the reason for his absence is due to his lack of getting a divorce is actually very important for my emotional health.

The ironic thing is my boyfriend claims he shares my values and he claims he never wanted to be in this position .

[formflier]

   In terms of your question, if I can stand my ground and tell my truth about my relationship  my fiancé/boyfriend is not divorced yet  and deal with the ramifications of that, then I can stay in the Grand Canyon a little longer.    

         How does that get you to the relationship you want?  How does staying in the grand canyon help that?           

FF