Push Pull - the dreaded 3 words

[CharWood]

I. Love. You.

This is the first time I have heard those three words since our break up occurred 4 months ago... .things have been complicated, since we are still living together until we unload our house together by the end of this year or early next.  she moved out for 6 weeks after our breakup only to force her return back to our home. We have been sleeping separately. no sex since the breakup, though she propositioned me a couple of times and then acted like she didn't the next day. The worst that has happened is her getting in to my bed several times over the past 4 months and sleeping beside me in the middle of the night. we have hugged eachother several times... but nothing has really happened between the two of us. she has not expressed an interest in recycling or getting back together with me... though she did say that she misses me and thinks about me sometimes and what we had.

"I love you" ... .she said this to me after throwing her arms around my neck and pulling my face towards her and planting a big kiss on the side of my cheek dangerously close to the side of my lips. I tried to turn my head away from hers at the moment of impact to avoid a kiss on the lips.  It was awkward. I had a "are you serious right now... .really?" look on my face and finally said to her "I appreciate you being thoughtful towards me and all that you have done for me today. thank you." she said "that's it? you don't love me as a friend after all we have been through over the years together?" I was quiet. and her face fell.

This happened on the steps of the arena before we attended an NBA game she surprised me with tickets to this past Saturday evening. She paid for a whole day trip for us that day and then surprised me with floor seats to my favorite NBA team. She said she did this because she wasn't there for me on the anniversary of my dad's death this year and didn't do anything for my birthday (birthday was nov. 24 and dad's death anniversary was the 23rd)... .In fact, she was downright nasty to me... .binge drinking, left the house for 3 nights and slept god knows where, picked fights with me, told me she cannot stand me and that she hates me... she mostly avoided me... she dysregulated big time after a month and a half of lower key behavior... .the weekend after thanksgiving she drove 20 hours back to where we moved out of state from to see her family... after ignoring me most of the time, she began texting me again and called me... .she was supposed to stay until December 5th... .however, because she said there was an ice storm going on, power out at her moms and around the city and they had to stay in a hotel... she drove back 21 hours to our house 48 hours after arriving. It was bizarre. She spent all last week being weird... was talking to some dude she met off the internet who lives back out of state in our homecity... .I wonder why if she claims to be as interested as she is in him, that she didn't stay there the whole week and hang with him... .I mean, they restored power to most of the city the afternoon she drove back... .her behavior is bizarre. plus, she has been texting and on the phone with other dudes. its weird. anyhow, she asked me to go out of town for the day with her this past Saturday so we did. she was pretty nice and thoughtful towards me, paying for everything. she was on the phone with internet a-holes texting for about half the time... .the other half she was present. when we went to the basketball game, she was holding my arm and tried to hold my hand and when I called her out on violating my space, she said it was just so we wouldn't get lost. Also, we deleted one another off of facebook but our friends and family are all still on our pages. She posted a picture of us on facebook at the game. Everyone saw it. I asked her not to but she did it. I do not understand for the life of me why... .her mom, also a BPD sufferer, hates me and her sister dislikes me... .everyone back home knows us and could likely get the wrong idea about us being back together... .why on earth, if she is so intent upon moving on and dating replacements and "finding someone" would she post a picture of us? I was informed she removed it 24 hours later. I am not sure if that is because she was bombarded with questions from our friends or if her mom said something to her.

then on Sunday, she went cold again. its so weird.  she told me out of nowhere that I make her feel bad about herself and that I am judgmental ( she has gained weight since our break up. I, on the contrary, have gotten in better shape and dropped some weight)  she has been cold since Sunday afternoon. went back into the guest room rather than sleeping out on the couch and has been on the phone with people and isolating herself. no drinking though. I don't quite get it.

Last week she told me that our breakup was the best choice she made in her life... that I didn't make her happy... .but referenced our former sex life, saying I am attractive and it was good (only a day before she made a grossed out face and said "ew" when she walked in on me in my underwear.

her behavior, like every borderline, doesn't make sense.  I know that our relationship is a bit more unique, since she stuck around for so long in the relationship and usually BPDs cannot maintain long term relationships that long... .I sometimes find myself wondering if she does have some sort of genuine connection to me deep down.

I would like to detach. Honestly, I cannot deal with the emotional pain and hurt and chaos anymore.

However, something keeps us connected. And, quite honestly, I don't understand it. if she dislikes me so much and I didn't make her happy, how come she cannot let me go? why does she want to follow me around the united states and be roommates only to find another person eventually... it would be just as easy for her to move back to our home city where all of her family and friends are and move on with her life... .but she says she wants to go with me because it is "boring there... ."

Any thoughts?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey CharWood, Those w/BPD are experts at manipulation in my view, so suggest you tread carefully notwithstanding that she rolled out the dreaded three words in order to get your attention.  Their fear of abandonment is pervasive, in my view, with the result that they will say or do anything to get you to react in a favorable way towards them.  You know this already, I suspect, from having lived with her.  Suggest you listen more to your gut feelings and less to the things she says.

LuckyJim

[alwaysloving]

Mine would whisper in my ear or say it in the car "I love you" but would say right after that don't say it back to me she hates that plus days like Valentine day

[CharWood]

Mike CL:  your ex did this while you were together or broken up? Mine was weird when we were together. first 2.5 years she was very affectionate. She would get frustrated with me if I forgot to kiss her before I left for work. very clingy and she maintained kind of honeymoon idealization for a very long time. I was the" best thing that ever happened to her" (, I know now that is just borderline bunk).  Only time she was weird was if she was crying or upset. she doesn't express sadness too much unless she has drank a lot. sober it would never happen. The few times she was driven to tears sober, she pushed me away and was very repelled by any of my attempts to comfort her... .she was kind of like a cat, if she wanted the comfort I had to let her come to me. That is pretty push pull of your ex... she can say I love you but you cant say it back? we are their objects... .they can do and say whatever but we are not allowed to have equal footing or express ourselves. My ex told me she loves me and we have been broken up for 4 months now... .If I said that to her... .ha! she would flip out and denigrate me. she would feel engulfed and dysregulate to the max. It is darned if I do, darned if I don't. So rather than respond to her, I just said thank you. but, of course, it upset her that I didn't say it back. She is just - wow... .something else. I ended up admitting to her I do not feel the same anymore - that too much crud has happened. She was very silent after. but then bought me a gift at the basketball game and started in with this bizarre behavior of trying to hold my hand, hold my arm, take pictures with me... .it was very uncomfortable. She even posted one of us on facebook when I asked her not to... only to take it down the next day (all my friends and her friends and our friends and our family saw it! it was very awkward).

See: if you start to pull away... .they freak out and try to suck you back in. If they are attached, they are attached and, as my ex's best friend put it, "even though she says she is done with you and doesn't want you, she will not detach from you... .you are going to have to be the one... you are going to have to do something big to get her out of your life because she wont let you go" I agree.

Thanks Jim. I agree it is manipulation. I think she can feel me pulling away and wants to be sure she can keep me in her orbit. I have come to the conclusion that she likely has no plans to replace me, rather carry on dalliances and do as she pleases during the time her borderline is triggered off but I have found when it comes to me: I am hers.  I am not supposed to move on. she can do what she pleases but I cannot  want any other woman other than her. Like I said, im her object.  I sometimes feel in my gut that she believes she can have me back whenever she so chooses... I kind of tend to think this is her plan. To see what is out there and come crawling back to me when she is ready. my gut tells me this. I wasn't sure at first but when she started buying stuff for me and threw out the I love yous to me... .I saw where this might be heading. unfortunately for her, it wont work out the way she wants it. I am done being a passenger on her crazy train. I stand by my boundary: therapy or im gone. its sad for her but she will have to learn.

[alwaysloving]

Mike CL:  your ex did this while you were together or broken up? Mine was weird when we were together. first 2.5 years she was very affectionate. She would get frustrated with me if I forgot to kiss her before I left for work. very clingy and she maintained kind of honeymoon idealization for a very long time. I was the" best thing that ever happened to her" (, I know now that is just borderline bunk).  Only time she was weird was if she was crying or upset. she doesn't express sadness too much unless she has drank a lot. sober it would never happen. The few times she was driven to tears sober, she pushed me away and was very repelled by any of my attempts to comfort her... .she was kind of like a cat, if she wanted the comfort I had to let her come to me. That is pretty push pull of your ex... she can say I love you but you cant say it back? we are their objects... .they can do and say whatever but we are not allowed to have equal footing or express ourselves. My ex told me she loves me and we have been broken up for 4 months now... .If I said that to her... .ha! she would flip out and denigrate me. she would feel engulfed and dysregulate to the max. It is darned if I do, darned if I don't. So rather than respond to her, I just said thank you. but, of course, it upset her that I didn't say it back. She is just - wow... .something else. I ended up admitting to her I do not feel the same anymore - that too much crud has happened. She was very silent after. but then bought me a gift at the basketball game and started in with this bizarre behavior of trying to hold my hand, hold my arm, take pictures with me... .it was very uncomfortable. She even posted one of us on facebook when I asked her not to... only to take it down the next day (all my friends and her friends and our friends and our family saw it! it was very awkward).

See: if you start to pull away... .they freak out and try to suck you back in. If they are attached, they are attached and, as my ex's best friend put it, "even though she says she is done with you and doesn't want you, she will not detach from you... .you are going to have to be the one... you are going to have to do something big to get her out of your life because she wont let you go" I agree.

Thanks Jim. I agree it is manipulation. I think she can feel me pulling away and wants to be sure she can keep me in her orbit. I have come to the conclusion that she likely has no plans to replace me, rather carry on dalliances and do as she pleases during the time her borderline is triggered off but I have found when it comes to me: I am hers.  I am not supposed to move on. she can do what she pleases but I cannot  want any other woman other than her. Like I said, im her object.  I sometimes feel in my gut that she believes she can have me back whenever she so chooses... I kind of tend to think this is her plan. To see what is out there and come crawling back to me when she is ready. my gut tells me this. I wasn't sure at first but when she started buying stuff for me and threw out the I love yous to me... .I saw where this might be heading. unfortunately for her, it wont work out the way she wants it. I am done being a passenger on her crazy train. I stand by my boundary: therapy or im gone. its sad for her but she will have to learn.

When she said I love you? on a date sometimes together or when she wanted me to come see me... the last time I remember was the lunar eclipse I was with her on the Coney Island boardwalk and she whispered I love you in my ear and when I was about to speak she said don't say it back! A few times she would question why I loved her the normal stuff us non's have to deal with Sometimes she would call or facetime to see how I was doing... if she was (I suspect dating someone else) and I said I'm fine she would say it does not seem like you are fine... She while not in a true committed relationship (not sure what to call it) she would get pissed off if say I brought up a girl or if she thought I was going to be talking to a girl... it would go something like this... "I better be the only one you talk to!"

Now about the hand holding I think the day before Nov 27th she said I may not want to be your girl but we can still be friends (assume at this point her and that guy were or made plans before... because weeks before she told me after Thanksgiving that would be the last I ever see of her or speak to her... she later apologized about that and asked for forgiveness... I wonder what would of happened if I did not forgive her?