What to do when the BP mother has a lifechanging diagnosis?

[Depression = 72% of members]

After my upsetting interaction with my mom at Thanksgiving, this year at Christmas I chose to not call her on that day.  I still sent her a package and card.  My sister and I both got an extremely short and curt email message that she had received the packages.  We took that to be her "I'm mad and I'll make you pay by not really acknowledging your gift." 

I've started reading (over halfway through) "Stop Walking on Eggshells".  It helped with realizing that not calling on Christmas was what I needed to do for me.  Besides, I realized, this is a two-way street... .she COULD call me.  Why do I always have to call her?

Despite that, I have always worried about the day that she got ill or needed something serious.  Well, that day came today.  She called today and I actually thought, "Something's wrong".  Well, it was.  It turns out she is going to have a double mastectomy on the 5th. This brings up all kinds of "issues" for me.  I can't really just hop on a plane and fly down because of funds and my husband's own procedure the day before; although, if we had a "normal" relationship, I'm sure I would "want" to go down.  I have to admit, she didn't ask me to come but it brings up some of the FOG that this disorder brings up for those family members who deal with the BP.  I feel that maybe she's also not asking either of us (I have a sister in another state) because she wants to continue to play the "victim" - she emphasized that she wasn't certain what she was going to do about certain things because she's alone.  This makes me feel like a horrid daughter because the reality is that this is a very serious surgery and the follow up treatment is going to be tough, I'm sure.  I can't imagine what it's like to have to go through this alone.  That's where the guilt comes in.  She mentioned that they will send her home the same day of the surgery with two chest tubes that she has to empty.  When asked if she had someone to help her, she mentioned a neighbor and then went on to criticize the husband of that neighbor and that she thinks he doesn't want this friend to help her.  When asked about if someone from her church could help with meals, she said that it's a very small congregation and she's probably the youngest/healthiest member (she lives in a retirement community).  She did say the pastor would come to the hospital with her.  Now, I know in my "head" that she has made choices to lead her to the lack of support she currently has (she isolates and pushes people away), but my "heart" is another matter.  On top of that, because I never had kids I go through this whole thing in my mind that goes something like this, "What if I have something like this happen when I'm her age and I have no one around?  Will it be like karma coming back around to "get me"?"  Now, I know this is all stupid thinking... .I'm not my mother, I've made many other choices, I've worked on my own "issues". But still... .

Any thoughts or advice would be welcome!

[Singingdove]

After my upsetting interaction with my mom at Thanksgiving, this year at Christmas I chose to not call her on that day.  I still sent her a package and card.  My sister and I both got an extremely short and curt email message that she had received the packages.  We took that to be her "I'm mad and I'll make you pay by not really acknowledging your gift." 

I've started reading (over halfway through) "Stop Walking on Eggshells".  It helped with realizing that not calling on Christmas was what I needed to do for me.  Besides, I realized, this is a two-way street... .she COULD call me.  Why do I always have to call her?

Despite that, I have always worried about the day that she got ill or needed something serious.  Well, that day came today.  She called today and I actually thought, "Something's wrong".  Well, it was.  It turns out she is going to have a double mastectomy on the 5th. This brings up all kinds of "issues" for me.  I can't really just hop on a plane and fly down because of funds and my husband's own procedure the day before; although, if we had a "normal" relationship, I'm sure I would "want" to go down.  I have to admit, she didn't ask me to come but it brings up some of the FOG that this disorder brings up for those family members who deal with the BP.  I feel that maybe she's also not asking either of us (I have a sister in another state) because she wants to continue to play the "victim" - she emphasized that she wasn't certain what she was going to do about certain things because she's alone.  This makes me feel like a horrid daughter because the reality is that this is a very serious surgery and the follow up treatment is going to be tough, I'm sure.  I can't imagine what it's like to have to go through this alone.  That's where the guilt comes in.  She mentioned that they will send her home the same day of the surgery with two chest tubes that she has to empty.  When asked if she had someone to help her, she mentioned a neighbor and then went on to criticize the husband of that neighbor and that she thinks he doesn't want this friend to help her.  When asked about if someone from her church could help with meals, she said that it's a very small congregation and she's probably the youngest/healthiest member (she lives in a retirement community).  She did say the pastor would come to the hospital with her.  Now, I know in my "head" that she has made choices to lead her to the lack of support she currently has (she isolates and pushes people away), but my "heart" is another matter.  On top of that, because I never had kids I go through this whole thing in my mind that goes something like this, "What if I have something like this happen when I'm her age and I have no one around?  Will it be like karma coming back around to "get me"?"  Now, I know this is all stupid thinking... .I'm not my mother, I've made many other choices, I've worked on my own "issues". But still... .

Any thoughts or advice would be welcome!

[busybee1116]

Just a brief reply to start for you since I am pecking this out on my cell phone.  She will likely have home health visit her initially to help with wound care once she is out of the hospital, but she will likely need more help than that. The drains are the biggest pain in the butt. Showering/bathing is second.  If you can't be there personally, you could arrange to have some meals delivered (there are a million ways to do this now), send her some button-down shirts (essential after mastectomy--it hurts to lift arms up). Shirts with pockets are also great – gives you a place to put the drains. You could also mail her packets of baby wipes and face wipes for the days showering seems too daunting. You could call her surgeon or oncologist and suggest a social worker consult since she does not have family near. You have to be careful here--her doctors can't release info to you due to privacy laws (unless authorized by your mom), but you can GIVE her doctors info. I'd also suggest a big bouquet of flowers and a thank you card to the neighbor!

[GeekyGirl]

Hi Singingdove,

It sounds like your mother has already arranged for some post-surgical help, but I understand how you'd feel a sense of responsibility. If she didn't ask you to come (and waited until just a week before the procedure to tell you), I'd guess that she has already made the decision that you're not expected to be there. busybee1116 has given you some great suggestions of things you could do from afar, if you want to help. 

Now, I know in my "head" that she has made choices to lead her to the lack of support she currently has (she isolates and pushes people away), but my "heart" is another matter.  On top of that, because I never had kids I go through this whole thing in my mind that goes something like this, "What if I have something like this happen when I'm her age and I have no one around?  Will it be like karma coming back around to "get me"?"  Now, I know this is all stupid thinking... .I'm not my mother, I've made many other choices, I've worked on my own "issues". But still... .

She has created some of this with her behavior for sure, but it is a sad situation.

Here's another way of looking at things: having children doesn't mean that they'd be the ones taking care of you if you get sick. I'd actually prefer to not burden my child with that responsibility. That's why I have set up a living will and have plans in place in the event that I am faced with a long-term illness. It's not fun to plan, but there are things that you can do now to determine what should happen if you end up in a similar situation. I've found information through my employer, but I'll bet hospitals or your health care provider can give you similar information. You're not your mother. 

[busybee1116]

And just to reiterate GeekyGirl--you don't have to do any of the things I have suggested, but if it would ease your conscience... .

A lot of folks on here have to be no contact. I choose to have contact with my parents. They have some awful traits, but some good ones too. And I feel like I should treat them with compassion within boundaries--because that's how I want to respond, not just to my parents, but to anyone. That's taken awhile to reach, and I have days when I don't feel this way! If my neighbor had a double mastectomy, I'd bring a meal over. If I had the time and comfortable/close with her, offer to help with tubes/showers or whatever, not just because I work in healthcare, but because I think it's the neighborly thing to do. If I could, I'd travel and help my mom if she had major surgery. But if I couldn't, I would do the things I suggested to you.

My mom did have major surgery about 8 years ago and lived about an hour away. At the time, I was working full time, but had weekends and evenings free, could have taken a few days off. The crazy thing--my dad pretty much would not allow me to help. I get it now (the dance!), but at the time, it was bizarre. Here I am, a healthcare provider, and I was more like an acquaintance than a daughter, much less one with medical knowledge. At one point, my mom was hallucinating on pain meds and needed someone at her side 24/7--he allowed neighbors to step in before me. I was allowed to come to one doctor's appt. So, I visited when allowed and made sure my dad had meals. A lot of neighbors stepped up and my mom's weird friends also showed up out of the woodwork. I was not aware of their dynamic yet or BPD, but it was a clue for me that something was up... .at the time, I was hurt that I wasn't needed. But it also showed me that they have resources and I won't be burdened with their care as their daughter much less as the relative who is a healthcare provider. My mom also tends to burn bridges with people so I was surprised by how many people showed up. And, the discharge planner made sure she had home health, a walker, safety bars at home, a brief stay in rehab... .

Another story for you--I have a friend who is a single parent. Her mother has bipolar and probably dependent personality disorder. My friend's childhood was awful for many reasons and her mother is more like her child. She's the ultimate waif. She eats junk food and sits around all day. She has uncontrolled diabetes and other medical problems. My friend feels obligated to make sure her mom has  a telephone and checks in with her periodically to make sure going to doctor's appts and eating. She supports her from time to time by paying for groceries or a bill (never gives her money). So recently, her mother was hospitalized for "fatigue" x2 (nothing wrong with her other than neglecting herself and feeling needy) and after 2nd hospitalization, her cousins started calling her, guilt-tripping her, telling her she needed to take care of her mom. The SWer called her and said mom can't live by herself. My friend lives in a tiny multilevel condo--her mom can't do stairs. Plus, my friend works FT and has her boy to care for. She told the SWer that she has PTSD from her childhood and even if she wanted to take her mother in, her home was not suitable/unsafe due to stairs and she'd be alone all day while my friend is at work. SWer went into action and found short term rehab and several other services to check in on her mom when she came home. I think she even found a visiting psych nurse. Cousins/uncle were furious, but surprise, none of them offered to take her in or help besides carrying guilt-trip messages from mom to my friend. My friend made sure her mom's home was cleaned and a full fridge when she got home, and still checks in on her from time to time. Sure, there's a little FOG. But, it's how she sleeps at night. There will come a time her mom has to move into a permanent nursing home, but she'll use up her mom's funds, and then mom will have to apply for state aid.

You do not have to take care of your mother. And like GeekyGirl said, having kids is no guarantee that they will take care of you when sick--in fact, it's rare IME when kids do/can.

[MoreGuilt]

My uBPDm did not have a life changing diagnosis, but did have surgery and was in a wheelchair following an accident.   I had nearly the same experience as BusyBee in the aftermath:

"The crazy thing--my dad pretty much would not allow me to help. I get it now (the dance!), but at the time, it was bizarre. Here I am, a healthcare provider, and I was more like an acquaintance than a daughter, much less one with medical knowledge. "

I didn't understand it either at the time- it seemed so crazy-but it does make "sense" now in understanding more about BPD and NPD.

My parents have long term health insurance and living wills, so I "should" just be grateful I won't "have to" step in and help.  But I understand the guilt and know I have it because she took care of several family members when their health was failing, so I always thought I'd be "expected" to carry on in that role. 

[Singingdove]

Busybee,

You have been so helpful on here and once again, you've brought tears to my eyes at how your emails have touched me.  I would not have thought of some of these things. 

I don't know who her doctor is but I may ask her pastor to maybe suggest a call to the doctor about the social worker.

I have to admit, too, that even if I could be there, I'm not sure I'd want to (and that makes me feel guilty) because I don't think I'm strong enough right now in dealing with the whole BP thing.

Again, thanks SO MUCH!

[Singingdove]

Geeky Girl,

Thanks for saying what you did about the "she has already made the decision that you're not expected".  That helps to relieve some pressure that I put on myself.

I'm going to do some of the things Busybee suggested because I want her to understand that she's cared for even if in her black & white thinking she often thinks my sister and I don't (especially when we stand up for ourselves).

Thanks for acknowledging that it IS a sad situation.  What you said about not having children... .I've actually thought about before.  It was nice to hear from someone who doesn't want to "burden" their children.  Because my mother's behaviors, I tend to not know what a "normal" mother might do in this situation - that they often DON'T want to burden their children with something like this.

She has created some of this with her behavior for sure, but it is a sad situation.

Here's another way of looking at things: having children doesn't mean that they'd be the ones taking care of you if you get sick. I'd actually prefer to not burden my child with that responsibility. That's why I have set up a living will and have plans in place in the event that I am faced with a long-term illness. It's not fun to plan, but there are things that you can do now to determine what should happen if you end up in a similar situation. I've found information through my employer, but I'll bet hospitals or your health care provider can give you similar information. You're not your mother. 

Thanks for reminding me that I'm not my mother.

I'm so glad I reached out on here.  The support I've received has really meant a lot!

Singingdove

[Singingdove]

Busybee,

I believe, like you do, with treating people with compassion.  It's helpful to be on here and realize that some can have compassion but still set boundaries and deal with the "striking out" behaviors of their loved ones.  It helps to hear that "IF you could travel"... .maybe I'm putting an unexpected pressure on myself.  The reality is that we financially can't really afford it right now (to get a ticket this quickly would cost a LOT).  The reality is, also, that she just told me this on Sunday - so why would I think she thinks that I could make it down that quickly? 

Again, thanks for sharing your personal story.  I didn't realize that the behavior of this "dance" is part of the BPD and that others have this experience. It helps to feel a little less alone.

Another techie question... .what is IME?

You do not have to take care of your mother. And like GeekyGirl said, having kids is no guarantee that they will take care of you when sick--in fact, it's rare IME when kids do/can.

Do you think that this internal battle about feeling like I should want to help but not wanting to help in person is normal for children of BPD parents?

Thanks again for your lengthy and informative posts!

Singingdove

[busybee1116]

Another techie question... .what is IME?

Sorry! IME is "in my experience." Another that I use is IMO "in my opinion."

The reality is, also, that she just told me this on Sunday - so why would I think she thinks that I could make it down that quickly?  

So my mother does this a lot. She creates no win situations that set herself up for disappointment. Consider that pwBPD are convinced that no one loves them, that you are just going to disappoint her, that you will leave/abandon her--no matter how hard you try to do the opposite. But her behaviors only push you away further. To prove this, she will set up scenarios to confirm it. And even if you do go through heroic hoops to try to please her, somehow it just won't work out and she'll find some other way to be disappointed. Example. My mother was part of a charitable but cliquey group of mean ladies who were always trying to one up each other. They had a charity lunch and my mom told me about it 2-3 days before the event. I need 2-3 weeks or longer to take time off work and she knew this. She expected me to be there; when I told her I couldn't and reminded her how much advance notice I need, she was very upset and sad. I told her next time, let me know in advance and I will try to be there. The next year, she did it again--told me 2-3 days before. So she now gets to tell people I'm too busy for her, that I don't have time for my own mother etc. Poor me. Feel bad for me.

Another example: She showed up frequently at my office, unannounced. The last time was a doozy. I work in healthcare and you can't just have people wandering around the office due to privacy rules. It was the day before my 10th anniversary (really special to us as a landmark) and the last day I was in the office before taking a week's vacation. So my schedule was PACKED and I was pulling my hair out trying to get everything done before leaving for a week. She came with a big bouquet of flowers and a card which temporarily blinded my front office to the rules (a mother, bubbly "I'm here to surprise my daughter!" announcement with bouquet of flowers can get away with a lot). She was ushered back to my desk and waited for me while I was with a client. My assistant interrupted me to let me know she was here. This was when I was newly in T and learning boundaries--I told my assistant I could not see her and to let her know I'd call later. I don't think I would have been able to do that on a regular day, but I was already on my last nerve trying to get everything done before leaving. So now--I look like a jerk. She created a whole scene for everyone in our waiting room, front and back office (because she announced loudly why she was there and the arrangement was huge). My whole office saw my excited mother with a big bouquet of flowers get turned away by her ungrateful daughter. She apparently moped out. I also realized--my anniversary was not about me, she was making it about her and feeling sad and left out. I called her later and thanked her for the flowers and card, told her I was sad to have missed her but as she knows, I'm obliged to my clients during work hours and my schedule was particularly packed due to my upcoming vacation--If she had called ahead of time, perhaps I could have found a time to meet and next time I would love to take her for lunch, just call first. That was also not good enough. But she never dropped in unannounced again! The other thing I realized later--any time I have off, she feels left out if I don't spend it with her somehow, as though I'm rejecting her or specifically choosing not to spend time with her. After that, I tried as hard as I could to avoid letting her know when I was taking a day off or what I was doing on weekends; we even tried to avoid telling them about vacations until after.

So you get to be the ungrateful, uncaring daughter who is never available to her, even when she has major surgery. And she gets to prove it by telling you with no warning so it's impossible for you to show up. It's crazy making but totally consistent. I think I gave you the example in another post about how my mom will announce to salespeople or clerks while I am with her that I never visit. And yet here I am, visiting now. But that kind of comment makes me not want to visit... .which would just further confirm her belief that I am too busy, don't love her enough to visit more often.

Do you think that this internal battle about feeling like I should want to help but not wanting to help in person is normal for children of BPD parents?

ABSOLUTELY. And they make it impossible for you to be of help, which makes you try even harder. It's never good enough, we feel never good enough, so we try harder and harder and harder.

Thanks again for your lengthy and informative posts!

 

Glad I can be of help. We are not alone! [/quote]

[Singingdove]

MoreGuilt,

Thanks for the response.  My sister and I are seeing a new aspect that several of you refer to as "the dance".  My mom has yet to call and/or email my sister about the diagnosis.  I'm sure it stems from the fact that my sister called her for an early Mother's day either last year or the year before and my mom eventually laid in to her and my sister was so frustrated after she hung up that she decided she wasn't calling her any longer.  In understanding the whole splitting thing of BPD, I can see that often my sister as been seen as the "bad" daughter to my mom and I'm usually the "good" daughter until I piss her off.  My sister early on (at 16) decided she wasn't putting up with my mom's behaviors any longer and distanced herself to some extent by moving out.  Me, being 6 years younger, had more "adaptive" behaviors in order to maintain the peace.  Anyway, I took the suggestion of BusyBee and got my mom some items and sent it from my sister and me.   My mom sent a thanks today for the gifts but only sent it to me and said something like "Thank you (and others)... ."  When I forwarded it on to my sister and said that I wanted her to know that Mom got the gifts but I don't know why she didn't just put my sister's email in the "to" box, my sister took it very hard being denigrated to "the others".  She felt that was cruel (which it is).  I've given my sister the "Stop Walking on Eggshells" book to learn more about BPD.  I feel very badly for her.  What my mom did IS very hurtful.  It's hard for me not to be offended by that, too.

My uBPDm did not have a life changing diagnosis, but did have surgery and was in a wheelchair following an accident.   I had nearly the same experience as BusyBee in the aftermath:

"The crazy thing--my dad pretty much would not allow me to help. I get it now (the dance!), but at the time, it was bizarre. Here I am, a healthcare provider, and I was more like an acquaintance than a daughter, much less one with medical knowledge. "

I didn't understand it either at the time- it seemed so crazy-but it does make "sense" now in understanding more about BPD and NPD.

[Singingdove]

BusyBee,

I'm glad you mentioned that your mom has done this.  It may be with invasive breast cancer that the doctor wanted to move on this quickly but in all reality, she's done this many times.  Again, it's helpful to be reminded of other people's experience with pwBPD.  In fact, I forwarded along your post to my sister so she doesn't feel so alone.  If you look at my response to MoreGuilt, you'll see what my mom did to my sister.

Thanks again.  You've been an 

SingingDove

[busybee1116]

Thanks for the response.  My sister and I are seeing a new aspect that several of you refer to as "the dance".  My mom has yet to call and/or email my sister about the diagnosis.  I'm sure it stems from the fact that my sister called her for an early Mother's day either last year or the year before and my mom eventually laid in to her and my sister was so frustrated after she hung up that she decided she wasn't calling her any longer.  In understanding the whole splitting thing of BPD, I can see that often my sister as been seen as the "bad" daughter to my mom and I'm usually the "good" daughter until I piss her off.  My sister early on (at 16) decided she wasn't putting up with my mom's behaviors any longer and distanced herself to some extent by moving out.  Me, being 6 years younger, had more "adaptive" behaviors in order to maintain the peace.  Anyway, I took the suggestion of BusyBee and got my mom some items and sent it from my sister and me.   My mom sent a thanks today for the gifts but only sent it to me and said something like "Thank you (and others)... ."  When I forwarded it on to my sister and said that I wanted her to know that Mom got the gifts but I don't know why she didn't just put my sister's email in the "to" box, my sister took it very hard being denigrated to "the others".  She felt that was cruel (which it is).  I've given my sister the "Stop Walking on Eggshells" book to learn more about BPD.  I feel very badly for her.  What my mom did IS very hurtful.  It's hard for me not to be offended by that, too.

Oh boy. My mom does this too. She'll tell one of us important info (usually my bro, he's usually the "good" child, she splits us as well) and not the other, or she will send messages meant for him (or my dad) to me (triangulating--wants me to relay the message since she can't for whatever emotional reason) or use me as a weapon/prosecutor against him or my dad. My brother and I started sending each other her emails because she would send us completely different notes sometimes and often with info the other might need. For example, she would send him an email with the specific dates she planned to visit me, but just tell me she is hoping to visit sometime in October--and I need specific dates to arrange my work schedule. Or she'd tell him they hope to visit on Christmas, but then email me to say they had decided not to go because weather so bad. I think part of the reason she does this is to split us, but also because she has a hard time giving specifics to the person who needs it, she likes to string people along so they think she still might come, keep you in suspense. She gets to be the person controlling the situation, holding the information. I also think it's an immature way to not disappoint people (in her mind), she can't be assertive. I still don't think my mother knows we share emails to the extent we do or that we are on the same page. But sometimes the emails she sends to my brother are pretty hurtful for me to read (and vice versa) and sometimes I think this is a bad idea to forward her emails to each other. But... .overall it's better to know than not know. I have learned, however, there are some emails I do not need to send to him. And your mother's email is a perfect example of this. I probably would not have forwarded the "and others" email to your sister or told her that part. I would have just told my bro, "hey, mom got our package and said thanks." I know it's a white lie, but that was the basic message of her email to you. She also put a little dig in there for you to relay to your sister... .but you can choose not to be her messenger.  That's stepping to the middle of the drama triangle. Your sister knows your mom is not kind, so it's not sugarcoating/making your mom look better, it's just not acting as her weapon against your sister. That's my opinion, at least. I got very tired of being used by my mother. If she wants to send a nasty email to my bro, that's her business, but don't make me tell my brother something awful for her.

And similarly to my mom, your mom had not told your sister yet about her dx. But you told your mom your sister knows by sending the package form the 2 of you. Perhaps your mom is unable to acknowledge or is miffed that your sister knows because your sister currently in her bad list or she didn't get to control the info or make the dramatic announcement on her terms? I know that would annoy my mom. When my SIL was dx'd with breast cancer, my mother relished in telling people about it one by one so she could get some attention for having been there at the time of diagnosis/helping out and the stress and worry it must cause.   You'd think my mother had the cancer diagnosis.

[Sea Holly]

Hi, I'm in almost the same situation! Pretty sure my mother has BPD/NPD (undiagnosed). We've been NC since early last year - her decision, she couldn't cope with me beginning to set boundaries, so she cut me out of her life (after a long, vitriolic, blaming phonecall). I chose not to chase after her, beg her forgiveness etc and I've had flying monkeys, asking how I could treat her so "unkindly".

Then my dad died. They divorced 40 years ago. Although I didn't live with him when I was a child, we were close. I knew he loved me and was proud of me - we shared a lot and I was devastated when he died. My M didn't contact me, not a card, email or call to offer condolences.

Well, having not heard from her for months, a couple of weeks ago she called me to tell me she had to have major surgery. She acted like nothing had happened, but just started telling me how scared she was, how she didn't know how she was going to cope etc. No mention of what had happened between us, or of my dad's death. I was polite and sympathetic, but inwardly fuming. But also felt very sorry for her.

I live a long way from her. At first guilty feelings kicked in - perhaps I should drive 4 hours to help her out? But during my NC time - and after a year of therapy - I have managed to stop asking myself "What do I need to do to please her?" (A pointless question, as nothing is ever enough). Instead I now ask "What do I want to do?" I have responsibilities in my own life (husband, kids, job) which I now choose to prioritise over her needs. So I won't be visiting her or taking unpaid leave to go and care for her. I know she'll be fine - she has family nearby who will help, and enough money to pay for help if that's necessary.

I called her today to wish her well for her surgery, and asked her to let me know how it goes. She seemed to appreciate the call - the first time I've rung her - but I suspect she will be complaining to everyone about how I'm not going to be there for her. I'm learning not to care what she and others think - but it's not an easy road. Hope this helps!

[busybee1116]

Sea Holly, I just want to say GOOD JOB! 

[Singingdove]

BusyBee,

Thanks, once again.  I've shared some of your insights with my sister and she finds it comforting to realize she and I are not alone. 

I never thought about the situation with the emails and mom like you laid out.  I think you're right... .in her twisted way of thinking she had to get her dig in possibly because I told her.  I never thought about being caught in the middle on that one.  Your words are very enlightening!

BTW, my mom did send a thank you to both of us today.  She got our package and turns out the shirts didn't fit her around her waist.  What's really cool and something I call a "God thing" was because I had explained what someone (you) had suggested about the shirts and the pockets, she went online and did a scan for mastectomy clothing or something like that.  She found this website:  https://www.healincomfort.com/  I had to pass it along to you because the woman that created this did so because she found that the need for these kinds of clothes was great.  What's even a bigger blessing to me and brought me some comfort... .my mom had left a question on this website about sizing and the lady who owns it personally called my mom tonight.  She's been on Shark Tank with this idea.  The reason I share this is that despite her being a pwBPD, it's still nice to see something nice happen to her at such a critical time.  Also, I figured with you in healthcare, you may find people to pass this along. 

Thanks again!  My   overflows!

And similarly to my mom, your mom had not told your sister yet about her dx. But you told your mom your sister knows by sending the package form the 2 of you. Perhaps your mom is unable to acknowledge or is miffed that your sister knows because your sister currently in her bad list or she didn't get to control the info or make the dramatic announcement on her terms? I know that would annoy my mom. When my SIL was dx'd with breast cancer, my mother relished in telling people about it one by one so she could get some attention for having been there at the time of diagnosis/helping out and the stress and worry it must cause.   You'd think my mother had the cancer diagnosis. [/quote]

[Singingdove]

Sea Holly,

WOW!  You sure you aren't some long lost sister?  It's almost frightening how similar our situations are.  I think what you're learning is something I'm trying to learn - to not care to the extent I have in the past - almost an unhealthy caring. 

Thanks for sharing your insights.  And WELCOME!

[busybee1116]

She found this website:  https://www.healincomfort.com/  I had to pass it along to you because the woman that created this did so because she found that the need for these kinds of clothes was great.  What's even a bigger blessing to me and brought me some comfort... .my mom had left a question on this website about sizing and the lady who owns it personally called my mom tonight.  She's been on Shark Tank with this idea.  The reason I share this is that despite her being a pwBPD, it's still nice to see something nice happen to her at such a critical time.  Also, I figured with you in healthcare, you may find people to pass this along. 

Thanks for the link! I will bookmark it!

And hey, look at your mom! Thanking BOTH of you! Taking care of herself by researching AND checking into sizing! That's great! Also, I agree with you, it is a super nice thing for her to receive a personal call from the website lady. It's so easy to wish harm back/revenge for their hurtful behaviors.

[Sea Holly]

Hi Singingdove,

Yes it's uncanny isn't it? I've been plucking up the courage to register with the forum, then I saw your post about your M's illness. I've been worried for months about what I would do if there was a crisis. I guess now I know the answer is that I'll do as much as I can without risking further abuse - and that won't be enough for my M, but I'm starting to realise the world isn't going to end just because I haven't pleased her.

As for trying to learn not to care so much - wish I'd started years ago! All my life I've tried to win her approval - it's only been during the past few years that I've started to realise I'll never get it. No coincidence that I've been happier with my life during the past year of NC - I've actually been able to see how good it really is and how lucky I am!

[Singingdove]

Sea Holly,

I like how you said that the world isn't going to end.  I need to remember that.  If anything this surgery has already taught me is that a lot of people came out of the woodwork for her even though she treats people poorly often and even though she seems to make it seem like she doesn't have anyone.  She tends to have this perception that "blood is thicker than water" and that only family matters. I, long ago, decided that family is who you make it to be not who you are actually related to. 

I always think I've gotten to the point where I don't care about her approval but then by my own reactions, I realize I haven't truly mastered that.  I seem to cycle back into this often.  It seems to be the less contact I have with her the better but then something like this happens and I'm right back with some of my same old feelings and reactions. 

I also struggle with going back and forth thinking (based on some of the readings about BPD) that they don't have much control and then other times thinking, "Well, other people figured it out and got better, why can't she?"  When I think like the latter, I feel better but when I read some of the literature, I think she has "no control".  Seems like a paradox to me.

Glad my post got you to sign up.     In my short time on here, I've gained insight but more importantly feel so less alone.

Singingdove[/quote]

[Sea Holly]

Hi Singingdove,

I totally agree with you about "family". I now see my family as being my husband, my kids, my in-laws, and some great friends.  These people love me for who I am, are reliable, supportive - and when I do nice things for them they actually appreciate it.

I always think I've gotten to the point where I don't care about her approval but then by my own reactions, I realize I haven't truly mastered that.  I seem to cycle back into this often.  It seems to be the less contact I have with her the better but then something like this happens and I'm right back with some of my same old feelings and reactions. 

[/quote]
I'm right there with you! I'm getting to the point where I can almost stop myself reacting while actually speaking to her - calm neutral voice, non-committal replies, saying the things I know she needs to hear, etc - but as soon as I get off the phone I feel hurt and angry. I then need to remind myself that my mother's value systems are so far removed from mine that, actually, her approval is almost worthless.

The control thing is interesting too. After a particularly difficult call today with my mum (I'd phoned her to see how her operation had gone, and it was a success) I'm wondering whether she genuinely can't help the way she is, or if it's all an act - in which case she's just plain nasty. I'm now finally accepting, though, that either way she'll never change.

I hope your mother's surgery went well. Sounds as though she has had plenty of support. My mum also claims that she has no-one to help her (to make me feel guilty for not being with her) and then in the very next sentence will reel off a list of all the people that have visited or offered to help!

Sea Holly

[Singingdove]

Sea Holly,

Good way to think about it - that her value system is so different that the "approval" we seek is really not worth much.

Once again it's helpful to see how much other people struggle like I do.  Interesting to learn that my mom is not the only one that "claims" loneliness and then seems to have people to help out.

I then need to remind myself that my mother's value systems are so far removed from mine that, actually, her approval is almost worthless.

My mum also claims that she has no-one to help her (to make me feel guilty for not being with her) and then in the very next sentence will reel off a list of all the people that have visited or offered to help!