BPD devaluation

[burritoman]

As long as she got what she wanted the ends always justified the means.

Just about any action could be justified/blamed to make them right in her eyes.   During our last fight, which was a result of her attempting to emotionally blackmail/manipulate me once again, when I pointed out what she did the response was jaw dropping and pushed me over the edge in a big way.  Thing is I had pointed this behavior out to her right in the beginning of our relationship and numerous times afterwards and two years later she was still doing it and still didn't believe she was attempting to emotionally manipulate me into a course of action.

Yup. If I didn't bend over backwards and put her above any and all other important aspects of my life I was ridiculed.

I never called her out much on her actions. She called herself out. She also told me how messed up and batsh*t crazy she is but I never saw her make healthy steps to try and better herself. She would self medicate through drinking, marijuana, occasionally other recreational drugs, and pushing her body through competitive running and never training. I always saw this as escaping reality but also her convincing herself that she's in control of her life. What the BPD never seems to realize is that their path to control and recovery is in the therapist's office. They don't go because it's below them.

[DreamGirl]

What does it mean really mental illness?

To me, I feel like this is the core of what can help in this. "They" being mentally ill is what connects us actually. All of us suffering from emotions and using skills to cope.

If we can ventilate the room of our feelings as much as we possible can, the actions of [our former loves] make better sense. The BPD tool box of dealing with life (projection, splitting) is in fact a set of really poor coping skills for having an extremely low level of dealing with emotional regulation (impulse control, low EQ). They really see the world through a different filter. It's hard not to see it as evil sometimes when there is a vindictive and manipulative nature to it. I also try to remember the phrase from Kreger's book though, "Just because it feels manipulative, doesn't mean it was the intent."  

The core wound of a person with BPD is abandonment. So often times in these relationships, the fear of you leaving (being left) is crippling.

We all have abandonment fears (NCEA, you said that you gave up on monogamy yourself after a 9 year relationship). A pwBPD experiences that fear on a irrational level. A missed phone call can be a cause for panic. A business trip out of town can become a crisis and suicide attempt.

All the invalidation and demeaning remarks are ways to cope with the fear that underneath it all, you don't think your disordered soul is good enough. The pain is less if you're split as all bad. So when you leave, it was because you weren't good enough (not vice versa). I think that every human has at one point struggled in self worth --- so we all understand how that is.  

Literature shows that the attempt to make you feel bad is because the inner turmoil is unbearable. It's what human's do sometimes as a means to cope, make their outside like their inside. Ease the pain, my friends.

An alcoholic stares at the bottom of an empty glass.

A bulimic tries to fill the void.

An adult child of sexual abuse finds solace in the arms of a stranger.  

A bully gets in a bar fight for no reason at all.

A recluse shuts the world out.

You get my drift.

As hard as it is to see, we're often all in the same boat. We're hurt. We're coping.

The mentally ill often will do it in the most maladaptive ways and the reason we struggle at understanding is that we don't take the time to understand because we are too wrapped up in our own hurt.

It helps when we grieve these relationships to feel the emotion (albeit anger seems to run the show), let it pass through you, but not let it be our sole source of action/reaction.

Understand that what they struggle at giving us (love, understanding, compassion) is mostly due to the fact you can't give others what you have no idea how to give yourself. And part of our own failures in these relationships was we were trying to fill that vacancy for them.

[NCEA]

What does it mean really mental illness?

We all have abandonment fears (NCEA, you said that you gave up on monogamy yourself after a 9 year relationship).

Wow. Amazing post.

I don't fear abandonment. I just feel that sexual monogamy isn't for me, and it took me a long time to realize that I can attempt to construct an open / sexual adventurous relationship with someone who is similar to me. And I needed a break from serious relationships and probably still need a break.

I don't really see sense in a "serious" relationship before one wants to start a family / have children. I'm 36 and still don't want children and think that for many if not most man this is a "natural" feeling. Most men are more or less arm twisted to have babies by their girl ("we're having kids or I'm leaving" and the rest are unplanned pregnancies. Anyway... .this is a different topic.

Good post.

[flourdust]

What does it mean really mental illness?

To me, I feel like this is the core of what can help in this. "They" being mentally ill is what connects us actually. All of us suffering from emotions and using skills to cope.

... .

The mentally ill often will do it in the most maladaptive ways and the reason we struggle at understanding is that we don't take the time to understand because we are too wrapped up in our own hurt.

Yes. I also think that the "mental illness" aspect means that their behaviors and thought processes aren't comprehensible to us without significant mental gymnastics.

For someone without these distorted thought processes, a fear of abandonment by one's partner would probably play out one of three ways:

1. I feel she is abandoning me. I don't want that, and I will try to prevent it by getting closer to her.

2. I feel she is abandoning me. I don't want that, but I will accept it and protect myself by disengaging from her.

3. I feel she is abandoning me. I don't want that, and I'm a mature communicator, so I will talk about my fears with her to see if I am correct or if this is a misunderstanding.

As the partner in this scenario, I can follow these thought processes and actions. I can decide how to react to them.

For a pwBPD, it plays out like this.

I feel she is abandoning me. I don't want that, but I must protect myself. I'll attack her so she has to abandon me, proving I am right. I'll also demand more closeness and affection, because I feel abandonment, and if I am especially nasty to her, I can force her to be nice and loving to me. If she doesn't follow these scripts (perhaps by asking me what is going on or denying she is abandoning me), then I am out of options, and I will melt down and rage at her until she makes me feel better by accepting that she hasn't followed the script of both abandoning me and loving me more.

Even having written this all out myself, I still can't understand it or figure out how to unravel/defuse it.

[NCEA]

Honestly all the talk about them dumping us because they think they're not good enough sounds to me like an excuse designed to make us feel better about it.

Something like "we're TOO GOOD for them so they left... .Ha, poor them"

I call BS. On this one too. Please don't ban me.

They just can't control their emotions and jump from one thing to another without remorse or shame.

I also jump from one thing to another but I don't suck as a human being. I'm honest and don't hurt people. They just don't care.

[Invictus01]

Honestly all the talk about them dumping us because they think they're not good enough sounds to me like an excuse designed to make us feel better about it.

Something like "we're TOO GOOD for them so they left... .Ha, poor them"

I call BS. On this one too. Please don't ban me.

They just can't control their emotions and jump from one thing to another without remorse or shame.

I also jump from one thing to another but I don't suck as a human being. I'm honest and don't hurt people. They just don't care.

If you think that's what your ex was, then your ex wasn't a borderline. She was a sociopath or a narcissist. That is a different flavor of personality disorder.

[DreamGirl]

Honestly all the talk about them dumping us because they think they're not good enough sounds to me like an excuse designed to make us feel better about it.

Something like "we're TOO GOOD for them so they left... .Ha, poor them"

I don't think this is what I was saying. I was saying we're all human.

It's also part of our own healing to process to the relationship and the other person's actions (along with our own).

You're also a smart guy ---- so it's about fundamentally understanding the nature of the disorder. It's what this whole board is all about.

I encourage to check out this video. If you're interested.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/treatment-borderline-personality-disorder

[fromheeltoheal]

Honestly all the talk about them dumping us because they think they're not good enough sounds to me like an excuse designed to make us feel better about it.

Something like "we're TOO GOOD for them so they left... .Ha, poor them"

I call BS. On this one too. Please don't ban me.

They just can't control their emotions and jump from one thing to another without remorse or shame.

I also jump from one thing to another but I don't suck as a human being. I'm honest and don't hurt people. They just don't care.

A borderline leaves an attachment in search of another one to avoid abandonment, either abandonment they feel is eminent or has already happened, which may or may not have anything to do with the reality of the situation or the motives of their partner.

You're angry NCEA, a normal response to abuse and disrespect, and a normal part of the detachment process.  At this stage having some understanding and/or compassion for a borderline seems very off base, screw the evil borderline feels better, and don't make yourself wrong for that, just hear that it will pass.  One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.

[UVA2002]

The best is when she would slip in An insult or put down about me in front of my friends.

[NCEA]

As a teen my ex was hospitalized for Anorexia or some other issue, I guess that's in line with BPD. But I don't know about recently. Do they keep harming themselves in their 30s?

[UVA2002]

Honestly all the talk about them dumping us because they think they're not good enough sounds to me like an excuse designed to make us feel better about it.

Something like "we're TOO GOOD for them so they left... .Ha, poor them"

I call BS. On this one too. Please don't ban me.

They just can't control their emotions and jump from one thing to another without remorse or shame.

I also jump from one thing to another but I don't suck as a human being. I'm honest and don't hurt people. They just don't care.

A borderline leaves an attachment in search of another one to avoid abandonment, either abandonment they feel is eminent or has already happened, which may or may not have anything to do with the reality of the situation or the motives of their partner.

You're angry NCEA, a normal response to abuse and disrespect, and a normal part of the detachment process.  At this stage having some understanding and/or compassion for a borderline seems very off base, screw the evil borderline feels better, and don't make yourself wrong for that, just hear that it will pass.  One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.

True but a person doesn't get a free pass for leaving a trail of destruction and damage because of a diagnosis or event. Being abused doesn't give a person the right to hurt others. The minute we forget we get sucked back in another ones web.  The ones who hurt us and brought us here are responsible and accountable for their actions the BPD can only be an excuse for so long they just caught us off guard and it happens to the best of us. Just be strong DONT contact them and keep the power.

[DreamGirl]

Do they keep harming themselves in their 30s?

Self harm can actually manifest as time goes on or vice versa in that it can diminish as different coping skills are used (like alcohol). It's used as an emotional pain reliever. A distraction. Physical pain to deal with the emotional turmoil.

[NCEA]

They inflict on themselves, pain, they are.

The force is weak with them.

Indeed.

(Me like your avatar)

[DreamGirl]

They inflict on themselves, pain, they are.

The force is weak with them.

Indeed.

(Me like your avatar)

Oh NCEA, I don't see it as weakness or strength. It just is.  

I'm also with heeltoheel on this one.  

You're rightfully angry. I'd be pretty angry too.

You're asking questions so you can better understand.

You just don't necessarily like the answers. That's OK.

We all do really understand.

I see every bad relationship, every heartbreak, every scar (and there's so many), as a step in a direction where I can be the best version of myself. Be a better relationship partner.

We're all here for the same reason in that sense. We have to take the path that works for us. My hope for you is that each day brings you closer to not being so hurt/angry.  

[fromheeltoheal]

A borderline leaves an attachment in search of another one to avoid abandonment, either abandonment they feel is eminent or has already happened, which may or may not have anything to do with the reality of the situation or the motives of their partner.

You're angry NCEA, a normal response to abuse and disrespect, and a normal part of the detachment process.  At this stage having some understanding and/or compassion for a borderline seems very off base, screw the evil borderline feels better, and don't make yourself wrong for that, just hear that it will pass.  One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.

True but a person doesn't get a free pass for leaving a trail of destruction and damage because of a diagnosis or event. Being abused doesn't give a person the right to hurt others. The minute we forget we get sucked back in another ones web.  The ones who hurt us and brought us here are responsible and accountable for their actions the BPD can only be an excuse for so long they just caught us off guard and it happens to the best of us. Just be strong DONT contact them and keep the power.

A borderline is not responsible for their disorder, but they are responsible for their behavior.

Hurt people hurt people.

We can only get "sucked in" when we lose control and don't enforce boundaries, and focusing on that and strengthening ourselves moving forward can end up being the gift of the relationship.

[NCEA]

You know, it does make sense that she feared abandonment.

We had an open relationship (as it was long distant). We were lovers but also together, more than she was with anyone else. But she made me feel that she couldn't live like this. She'd rather have a boyfriend and then cheat and be cheated upon , behind the back, because then it's not known and open, than live in an honest but "open" arrangement. She was fine me being with other girls as long as it was on another continent but I think she was afraid I'll have affairs in her own back yard ("her" playground) and that was unacceptable.

But with all honesty , if she'd simply ask me to have a closed relationship, I would have a greed. I was so in love with her.

When we just met I told my best friend that what we like most about each other is out freedom so ironically we could never be together. I was so damn right... .It's exactly what happened.

Me and her are really like a ying and yang... .It is really interesting.

[DreamGirl]

Long distance relationships are really, really tough. There's a certain kind of fantasy going on and expectations don't always align with reality.

I'm just wondering... .

Was she in an "open" relationship because she knew that it's what you wanted?

And just curious with your (vivid!) details of her promiscuity - did she experience sexual trauma as a child?

[NCEA]

She visited me in Argentina from Paris. She left, we knew we're crazy about each other but that we're both going to continue living our lives. She started breaking up with most of her lovers (5!) and from the ex and meanwhile our connection became stronger and stronger. We never really discussed any of it, we both understood what and who we are.

Six months later, what we DID discuss was me moving to Paris . She helped me pick up the apartment and all then then bailed out, in favor of yet another long distance relationship.

She's just too wild and need space (as in - boyfriend who lives in another country). If I'd just keep her as a lover, we probably would have still be together. But I risked it all and wanted to move to the same town... .That was too much for her.

She kicked her ex out after a week because he lived together with her in her small studio apartment. I knew that would have been too much. That's why I suggested I'll take my own plsce... .

Anyway... .I hate Paris and if I'd move there I might have been dead by now, and afraid to be out at night. My life is infinitely better now, I just wish she wouldn't be so awful because if she wasn't, I wouldn't suspect she's crazy and connect all the dots as I eventually did. We could have just stay friends or lovers who meet every few months. Instead it turned into this salad of NC on one hand and a PhD in disordered personalities on the other.

I'm just wondering... .

Was she in an "open" relationship because she knew that it's what you wanted?

And just curious with your (vivid!) details of her promiscuity - did she experience sexual trauma as a child?

[UVA2002]

A borderline leaves an attachment in search of another one to avoid abandonment, either abandonment they feel is eminent or has already happened, which may or may not have anything to do with the reality of the situation or the motives of their partner.

You're angry NCEA, a normal response to abuse and disrespect, and a normal part of the detachment process.  At this stage having some understanding and/or compassion for a borderline seems very off base, screw the evil borderline feels better, and don't make yourself wrong for that, just hear that it will pass.  One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.

True but a person doesn't get a free pass for leaving a trail of destruction and damage because of a diagnosis or event. Being abused doesn't give a person the right to hurt others. The minute we forget we get sucked back in another ones web.  The ones who hurt us and brought us here are responsible and accountable for their actions the BPD can only be an excuse for so long they just caught us off guard and it happens to the best of us. Just be strong DONT contact them and keep the power.

A borderline is not responsible for their disorder, but they are responsible for their behavior.

Hurt people hurt people.

We can only get "sucked in" when we lose control and don't enforce boundaries, and focusing on that and strengthening ourselves moving forward can end up being the gift of the relationship.

Completely agree and now I'm more familiar with the disorder and being 40 years old seeing multiple times unfortunately what happens to girls that live this way the gift for me has been : recognizing the disorder in someone and treating them accordingly. such as running the other way and warning everyone I know to not get involved beyond a ONS.

[NCEA]

About sexual trauma - she said her father didn't want her, he was angry when her mother got pregnant and they divorced when she was a baby. Then as a child or teen, her mothers boyfriend would walk into her room when she was naked, or he was naked... .And the mother wouldn't object (alcoholic).

What is there for a good Jewish boy like me to do other than feel pity for her and take her under my wing?

(Only to be stabbed in the back)

Anyway... .So how come the sex is so good with these people? Because they feel so damaged that they just have no shame and they let themselves go? Or because they seek warmth and passion to compensate for their hate to the world / themselves?

[NCEA]

Good point about the ONS.

For lovers / affairs / sex - disordered women are "the best". Easy and the sex is just amazing. Red flags if you're looking for a relationship but if you're looking for a roll in the hey, it doesn't get better than a BPD or a HPD :-)

I actually have an affair now with someone who I'm certain is a little crazy. She's 35 in an open relationship with a 65 years old. She's a swinger and goes to sex parties, alone, but he drives her there. We meet once a month, and text each other only 2-3 a week, and other than that we're crazy about each other but I'd never get anywhere near her more than these once a month meetings. She's a university professor.

You see, I've already learned my lesson.

[fromheeltoheal]

Anyway... .So how come the sex is so good with these people? Because they feel so damaged that they just have no shame and they let themselves go? Or because they seek warmth and passion to compensate for their hate to the world / themselves?

Was it really her that made the sex awesome NCEA, or you?  Many here describe the excitement and what feels like an addiction being in a relationship with a borderline, and many mistake that feeling for love.  What is that?  What parts in you did she awaken or trigger?  Could it have been that's where the excitement of the sex came from?  Someone who thinks radically different than we do, to the point we don't understand, can seem mysterious, which in turn can be arousing; did that apply to your gal?

[Suzn]

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