I keep texting regularly that I love her and do not give up.

[Davy]

Hi my name is Davy (31 years old).

I think I should start with some background about myself.

This might be a long post and english is not my native language so you have been warned

My previous relationship lasted 5 years and we lived together for 3,5.

I was very unhappy with her because everything came on my shoulders. She kept going to school getting master after master. I had to pay for everything and she barely did anything in our apartement.

After that relationship I was single for 3 years. Was happier alone not sure I needed a woman in my life.

Then I met my current girlfriend last summer. She was amazing. Beautiful, intelligent, funny, sweet,... .

I fell for her like I never experienced before. I could not believe I could ever find someone like her and she loved me.

The relationship went fast. She often talked about movong in with me and even marriage and babbies.

I'm verry much in love with here so I suggested her to move in with me. We never had an argument except for when i made a joke she thought wa inappropriate. No big deal i thought just have to watch the jokes. So moving day was there we where togheter for 3 months at that point. Day 1: I thought to make it a romantic evening so I filled the bathtub, lit some candlles, opened up some wine and got out the massage oil. She was not in the mood for any of it. That was a first but it had been a busy day with the moving so I did not look to much into it.

2nd day after work I was making dinner and she came home and did not seem happy to see me. I asked about it and she got upset that she was not feeling well and that I should understand.

The entire week I gave her some space and rest. That weekend She tells me out off the blue that She wants to move back to her appartement. I did not get what wass going on and asked het for an explanation. She felt bad becouse I was to quiet and ignored her so I explained that I just gave her space and rest beacouse she was not feeling wel. I convinced her not to give up so soon and that I would work on me being quiet. The second week I really tried giving her as mush attention as possible bet she acted cold and said she had stomach pain. about halfway through that second week I was getting frustrated and asked her if she still loved me because it felt like she did not. She got upset because I said that and we had our first real fight. That weekend I noticed an improvement, She was getting more active around the house but still no intamacy. In the third week I asked her why. She got upset again and blamed me for always being angry and blaming her for everything. Friday of the third week I got home from work and she was sitting at the table. I entered the room and said: Cool there is a beautifull woman sitting at the table. She schrugged and I felt frustrated again. During dinner I told her how it made me feel in a very calm manner so she could not blame me for getting mad. Still she got upset and said how do you want me respond to that? Than came christmass and during those days at the fammilydiners everything seemed ok so I tried to get intimate that evening but she said her neck hurt. Sunday after christmass I went upstairs to bring her a cup of coffee and wake her up. She was cold again so I asked if I should be worried. She told me that she was moving out because I was always quiet and that made her feel alone and scared and that I was always mad.

But She still loved me and did not want to lose me. She moved out tuesday before newyear. Did not see her for 2 days but she showed up for our reservation on newyears eve. I kissed her and told her that I had missed her but she did not respond. So I asked did you miss me? She said she did not have time to miss me. I got upset and demanded to know where I stand? Are We still a couple?

She left saying that we needed a break.

So here we are on break. I do not understand what is going on. My mom said it seems like she has commitmentissues so I start looking the net and come accros BPD (I know its not wise to jump to conclussions myself). Since the time out I keep texting regularly that I love her and do not give up. Her reaction various from no response to I love you too.

It is driving me crazy. I never felt this bad and confused in my life. I could end it to save myself pain but I could never forgive myself if I did not try to help her and save our relationship. I plan to get us some proffesionel help but am not sure how to approach this? I would really love some advise. It is also ok to say that I am wrong. I just dont get it and am very confused.

On a side note a little background on her: Her real father abanded her when she was 8  and her stephfather touched her. Also she told me that she went through the same thing in her previous relationship

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

You may be smothering her right now.

All those wonderful and loving things are great as long as they are coming at her at about 60-80% of her desired need. The minute it becomes 81% - 130% percent of her need, it feels obnoxious (percentages are examples fro illustration purposes).

And her need is not a constant.  One day she might be needing 3 lbs, one day she might need 6 lbs, one day, nothing might be best. If you are giving her 10 lbs every day... .    Think of Tiramisu. Imagine after getting 10 lbs of this lovely desert every day and being expected to eat it. Questioned if you didn't want it one day. ":)on't you like Tiramisu? You don't want it anymore?  You always liked it?  Should I bring some Tiramisu tomorrow?

Also imagine, if after you questioned it, all the food went away and there was nothing to eat.

I certainly don't know what is going on with the two of you on a day-to-day basis, but I imagine any mention of "Tiramisu" is obnoxious at this point.

So change your tactic. Notch yourself back. Drop this topic. Go back to being fun.  And don't over pursue her right now (or under pursue).

Does this makes sense?  How would you do this?

[Euler2718]

I had a girl who was alternately hot/cold and also who sometimes wanted to call it quits. Eventually she did. Does she have borderline symptoms? If so, you're in for a bumpy ride. I do like that you said you were going to try to do everything to save it, though -- that way, you maybe won't be wondering and regretting later if it falls apart.

[Davy]

Ok I think I might have been smothering her but I felt like she was testing me and I had to show her that i do not give up on us.

Those signals are so confusing. Do I text her like ones a day to say goodnight and tell her that i love her? is that to much or to little?

Right now I am aiming to get closer to her. I already made an apointment for therapy for myself to tell my story and see how I should preceed.

My current goal is to get her into therapy with me.

But I need to get closer to her first and then figger out how to get her to come allong without her taking it the wrong way

I am not sure she has BPD but from what i read it sure seems that way.

I also think I am a codependent.

What are your thought after reading my story?

[Skip]

Ok I think I might have been smothering her but I felt like she was testing me and I had to show her that i do not give up on us.

This is not working, so I'd change direction while you still have options.

Do I text her like once a day to say goodnight and tell her that i love her? is that to much or to little?

Don't text her unless she texted you last. Make it a one for one thing.

I already made an apointment for therapy for myself to tell my story

Good idea. The therapist will want to focus on you at first and that the right thing to do.

Right now I am aiming to get closer to her. My current goal is to get her into therapy with me. But I need to get closer to her first and then figger out how to get her to come along without her taking it the wrong way.

Bad idea. When your partner is feeling smothered, "figger out how to" make her feel less smothered. How ever many times you told her you loved her and wanted a future with her a day, cut that way down (maybe twice a week for now). Try to stay away from talking about the relationship for 2-3 weeks unless she brings it up - and if she does, just listen and let her know you heard her.

Out side of relationship conversations, I'd do more listening to her right now and talk about what she wants to talk about. Go wit the flow.

Others will have some ideas... .keep posting your thoughts.

[Davy]

Ok.

Thank you very much for the advice.

I will back off for a couple of days and hopefully she contacts me.

I have to admit that I find it hard not to have contact with her at such a critical time.

I am truly stumbeling around in the dark here.

[ProKonig]

Sometimes you can do too much. We don't have control over everything someone does or feels and we can't always fix it by talking about it. The same as you (I think most people who care for someone) I want to fix a bad mood when I see one but, I've learnt when to back off and know sometimes it's nothing to do with me.

I can't help but feel there is something bigger going on here. Whether it's BPD, commitment issues, wanting to break up, she's cheating or something else... .you clearly cannot control the situation with words and gestures. I think the sensible thing to do would just be to say, "Look, I'm here if you need me. I don't know what you're going through but I'm here to support you if you need someone. If it's something I can fix, just let me know, we can talk. But for now, I'll give you some space and I hope you feel better." Don't be too sappy, just make yourself available if she wants to fix the problem and work on your relationship. Stop chasing, I can't see it getting the result you want based on the evidence you've provided.

Defend your own emotional state as well. You need to realise that if the relationship doesn't recover, you've taken the right steps and given her space and your own openness to engage with your relationship. If she chooses not to, you've done nothing wrong and that's just life... .sometimes things don't work on. Don't pin your hopes on someone who isn't giving you anything to work with.

[Davy]

I have seen nothing to indicate that she is cheating and you dont go from loving someone to not loving them in a day.

I agree that it does look like there is something that she is not telling me and I also asked her that. All She says is that she feels alone and scared and that we fight al the time.

She also said that i did nothing wrong and still loves me and does not want to lose me.

But I feel like it is over. I just dont get it. If she wants to break up for real i would prefer she would just tell me instead of making me feel like this

[Skip]

I will back off for a couple of days and hopefully she contacts me.

Rather that go from 100 to 0, it might be better to be at 25. Stay in contact. Keep it light. Fun. 

[Davy]

Last night she texted me goodnight dear

I just replyd goodnight honey

Hoping this is good.

Not sure if I should initiate contact today?

Probably better not to say "I love you" for now?

[Skip]

Probably better not to say "I love you" for now?

Yes.

That exchange was good. She initiated with affection (but not feeding the "I love you demand) and you responded in kind.

You can initiate the next one. Then let her initiate, next.

I'd not text her about relationship validation. That's been overdone.  Tell her something interesting.

[Davy]

I have been reading about validating and am fairly certain that I totaly screwed up on that part.

Think its the reason she left. I kept defending my own actions and words because I did not understand wat was going on.

I am truly learning al lot from all of you. You give me hope and direction. Thank you

[Davy]

Ok so last night i texted her to say goodnight and she responded.

Would it be ok to send something light about my day at work and ask her about her day or should I wait for her to initiate?

Sorry for asking your opinion for everything. I just dont want to make things worse

[1minuteatatime]

Ok so last night i texted her to say goodnight and she responded.

Would it be ok to send something light about my day at work and ask her about her day or should I wait for her to initiate?

Sorry for asking your opinion for everything. I just dont want to make things worse

Quote from skip:  You can initiate the next one. Then let her initiate, next.

Trust him.  He is a boss.

[MapleBob]

Ok so last night i texted her to say goodnight and she responded.

Would it be ok to send something light about my day at work and ask her about her day or should I wait for her to initiate?

Sorry for asking your opinion for everything. I just dont want to make things worse

Quote from skip:  You can initiate the next one. Then let her initiate, next.

Trust him.  He is a boss.

Yeah, I agree with 1minute and Skip on this one.

[Davy]

Damn today I texted her

"Hi honey just got back from the docter to get my ears cleaned (true)

Now I dont have an excuse anymore not to listen

How was your day?"

Thinking ok  keeping it light and fun but I seem to be getting ignored

Although yesterday she texted me 1st wishing me goodnight.

This is driving me insane

[Skip]

You might have to endure 1, 3 , 10 days of silence before this equilibrates. The balance got way "one-sided" - so much so that it made her pull way back. She's not going to change in a day.

Damn today I texted her

"Hi honey just got back from the docter to get my ears cleaned (true)

Now I dont have an excuse anymore not to listen

How was your day?"

Here is how to look at this. She is telling you something in her non-response. I'm not suggesting that you over-analyze this, but see that it doesn't work right now. So don't do it again. Try something else next time you are up to bat.

Why are you only texting, anyway?  Do you two not talk on the phone or see each other in 3d?

[formflier]

  She's not going to change in a day.

  Davy, You also won't change in a day.  But I can see you are putting forth huge effort and taking on some very important advice.     I noticed a comment that trying to figure this out is driving you insane or something like that. (basically frustrating you, bigtime)  Well is there something you can do when those feelings come, that is just for you?  Self care.    Something that will distract you and that you will find fulfilling.  Taking a walk, going fishing, reading an interesting book.  For a long time I went on "energetic" walks (going very fast).  Usually I would be grumpy over some r/s issue and in the first mile I would think I was wasting my time on the walk.  Somewhere during mile 2 the mood would change and by the end of mile 3 (which just happened to be about when I was home) I would be in a really good mood.  Hope you can find something that works for you!  

FF

[Davy]

I could not help myself and send another text before going to bed to say goodnight and that i love her.

To my surprise she replied "I am feeling really bad. I can not find peace in my mind"

Now in my opinion this not something a healty person would say? So my suspision of BPD grows.

Even more surprising a 2nd tekst followed "I hope you are feeling better. I love you too."

So I replied "If there is anyhting I can do you can ask me anything. I have been using this time to think about my mistakes and finally realise I have been very selfish and have not been very understanding of her feelings. I'm sorry. Hope to see you soon. I miss you but I understand if you need more time."

No responce so now I'm trying to hold out till she contacts me.

I like to work out to clear my mind and it does help my mood and confidence.

I must admit that I am currently being obbsesive with finding out about what is going on.

She does not want me to call her nor see me

[Davy]

Yesterday I did not make contact and did not hear from her.

I feel that I am reaching my breaking point. I dont eat and cant sleep.

It is also affecting my job. Yesterday I almost ran over 2 colleages of mine because I was so distracted.

I still want this to work and help her but I cant keep sitting here feeling sorry for myself and wondering what I did to deserve this.

I need to take action. I plan on calling her to tell her that we really need to talk about this and that I have made an opointment with a therapist. I realise this is probably going to backfire and will hold out for as long as I can but this can not continu much longer.

I cant even breakup with her because she does not want to see me and I'm not the kind of person to brake up over a text or facebook.

I need something to give me a little hope otherwise I need to get out for the sake of my own health. I do have some selfrespect

[formflier]

  Davy, Please don't call.    When you get to the point of "having to", can you take a walk, read a book or some other activity that you like that is not associated with her.  Just for you.  I'm glad your desire is to help her.  Right now she needs space.  She is sending all kinds of signals that indicate that.  Respecting that is a helpful and kind thing to do.  It also gets you on the right "side" of the push/pull dynamic.  When you "smother" her she will go into push mode and create space.    When you give her space she starts to miss you and wants to pull you closer.  Would you rather be in a r/s with someone that wants to "pull" you in or "push" you away?  

FF

[Davy]

How long do these phases usually last?

Also I wonder what She needs time for?

Is She truly trying to sort her own toughts and feelings? Or is she trying to decide to stay with me or not?

[Skip]

She might be trying to decide if she want to be in a smothering and clingy relationship?

She cares about you, obviously.  She moved in.  But then she found it smothering and clingy and moved out and put the relationship on hold. You don't want to use "smothering and clingy" in an attempt to recover this relationship. It is a proven loser for you two.

How long will it take, you ask?  How long will it take for you to demonstrate convincingly in your actions (not words) that you are not smothering and clingy? This is the challenge you have. This is your best bet. She didn't say "go away forever". That's good.

Right now, when you say "I love you", what she is hearing is "please, please, please tell me you love me - feed my need to be loved - be there for me, me". What she wants to feel is free and respected and having someone that respects her indepedence puts her needs first.

In relationships people fear being engulfed, consumed, losing themselves.  

You're obsessing over her (I get that, we all get it) and she can sense it and it is scaring her away.

Its easier to show something in the affirmative (I am losing weight) than to show the "absense" (I will never drink again). The latter takes longer.

If I was to say anything, I might say - you know, it was a good idea you moving out - we got out of balance.  Leave it there. Don't try to make a logic argument on what that means and how good it is for her.  This will give her some indication that you may be starting to get it.

What are you doing with you?  You sound like you are in high anxiety?  :)o you have a therapist?  Have you gotten a meds evaluation - maybe explore some anti-anxiety medicine?  You're being driven to fear right now. That's not good.

Who are you? 

[Davy]

I have an appointment with a therapist on wednesday.

You are right about my anxiety. I have always had some issues with it in certain situations. But now I feel it almost al the time.

Never had that in previous relationships or breakups.

But I wonder about the clinginess during the time she lived with me she mostly complained that I wass to quiet and that scared her because she thought I was analyzing her and that I was mad about something wich was not true. I tried being more lively but then she blamed me for forcing/pretending. No matter what I did or said she always gave it a negative twist

[Skip]

No matter what I did or said she always gave it a negative twist

Can you imagine a golfer saying this?

Relationships are about finding the sweat spot - the right balance - reading each other - etc.

If what you did wasn't working - change it. I'm not saying you did wrong - I'm saying you are not connecting with her and she may be harder than normal to connect with.  If you wonder if this is right for you, go make a post on the undecided board.  Air it out.

Are you seeing someone that can prescribe medicine?  If not, get a referral for that aspect of your care.

[Davy]

I have some deanxit in the house. Only take it when I suspect to get in a situation where my anxiety is triggerd.

I think I'm just gonna try not to contact her at all unless She does first.

[Skip]

I think I'm just gonna try not to contact her at all unless She does first.

Try?  If you are only contacting when your anxiety is driving you to do it, that is the most destructive contact of all. If you go "silent treatment" that is also destructive.

Before you can make anything better, you have to stop making it worse.

Let her take the lead - mirror back the same level of communication that she gives you - maybe a bit less. Let her know that you are feeling good, upbeat, and not threatened by all of this.

Then be that guy. 

[Davy]

How can I let her take the lead if she does not communicate?

Ok how about this: I send her a message asking how she is doing. If She replies in kind and asks me how I am. 

I then say something like im doing ok this time out was the right thing to do?

Would that be good or do I still dont get it?

Sorry if I seem like a retard I just find this all very confusing.

[Skip]

How can I let her take the lead if she does not communicate?

Respect it. Its OK.

Ok how about this: I send her a message asking how she is doing. If She replies in kind and asks me how I am.  

I then say something like im doing ok this time out was the right thing to do?

Wait until she says "how are you".  And say "great". If she says whats up?  Say I working out (something true) and feeling good. If she probes further, "time out has given time to _____ and me twas the right thing to do - gives us both a chance to think.

I don't want to script you on this - so just take these as examples. Its not really about the words as much as it is about letting go of your fear. You can love too much.  Borderline mothers do this all the time - it destroys the kids.

I know this is hard.

[formflier]

How can I let her take the lead if she does not communicate?   Sorry if I seem like a retard I just find this all very confusing.

 Allowing someone to lead can be difficult, especially when your version of their leadership and how they are leading, are very different.  She is leading.  She believes that there should be less contact and is headed in that direction.  Will you follow her or will you lead in a different direction?  If both parties lead and go in different directions, what happens?  Let her lead, show her you trust and respect her opinion.    Being hard to understand:  There is an "order to the disorder", but I remember it feeling like a foreign language.  Once you learn it, it will help you figure out the dynamic.  It will take time.    Keep asking questions,

FF