Typically, November through the end of the year are the worst times.

[livednlearned]

What did S12 say when you asked if he hated you?

If they bring up negative feelings LISTEN... .VALIDATE... .do not "correct" anything.

This may be true when it's low stakes. When it gets high stakes and parental alienation starts to rev up, experts recommend being very matter of fact and factual. In general, yes -- start with validation. If mom is telling S12 that dad is xyz, and that's not true, then ask S12 how it feels when mom says that. You need to create a micro-climate of validation around your kids so that they know there is a safe buffer where their feelings can be heard. It's also a really good idea to start teaching your kids the difference between lying, secrecy, privacy, withholding, and forgetting. More than other kids, they need help figuring out what is true and not true, what is private and not private, what is secret and not secret. You can do this by giving them examples that have nothing to do with their mom and what she says, even talking about these morally ambiguous scenarios if they come up in movies or amongst their peers.

In normal relationships, we do not want to put our kids in the middle. These are not normal relationships and there are times when it's appropriate to deal directly with the truth. Mom is going to externalize her feelings onto the kids and they are going to need a lot of help learning that her feelings are not their feelings, and doing so in a way that is relatively safe for them to individuate.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

I agree it should be corrected.  Just not in same conversation.  More important that the kid knows they can talk to you about anything that to be quick to "correct".   Give it a few hours or a day.  Then revisit the conversation.  "Fill in the knowledge gap".  Move along.  Don't linger on the topic.  

[storagecold]

I agree it should be corrected.  Just not in same conversation.

More important that the kid knows they can talk to you about anything that to be quick to "correct".


Give it a few hours or a day.  Then revisit the conversation.  "Fill in the knowledge gap".  Move along.  Don't linger on the topic.

All bark and no bite today. All her threats were diffused.

[formflier]

All bark and no bite today. All her threats were diffused.

   This is part of the "order to the disorder".  Very likely if you asked about the threats (please don't) that she would act like it was no big deal, or perhaps even that she never said it, thought it, felt it.  Use this incident as a place of power for you.  It was scary, concerning (whatever label feels honest for you);  for a while it had a lot of energy, and now it is gone.  I believe it was Waverider that helped me out a long time ago with an analogy of a really bad thunderstorm, or other violent storm.  If you can view these episodes like this it will help you get in the right mindset.    If a bad thunderstorm came along would you stand outside and argue with it?  Nope, you would get all wet and might end up sick.  Very likely the best idea is to put up your umbrella and head for shelter.  Come back out when the storm as over.  In you case, you need to figure out what it looks like to put the umbrella over your child as well as you.  Hope this helps, and glad things have settled down.    

FF  

[storagecold]

Here is the latest. In all respects, this is the most brutal challenge I have ever faced. Some background first:

Before we had children, uBPDw had a great revelation (right before Christmas, of course) that her parents had molested her as a child. Much screaming, crying, etc. occurred back and forth. At the time, I was supportive as I could have been, eventually agreeing to "blacklist" her parents. After a few months, as I recall, it just evaporated. All relations resumed as if nothing ever happened.

A few years later, she accused my father of the same thing with our toddler son. It was a nightmare. 

A few years after that, she accused me of the same thing. She called the local child services bureau and I was "investigated" one afternoon at our home. A few weeks later, we received a letter from the bureau saying the case was dismissed because the charges were "unfounded." Made little difference to uBPDw.

About six months later (after many, many more insane accusations), she told me to leave, and I did. She filed for custody immediately. I spent a monstrous amount of money on a lawyer. Finally, a judge had to tell her that indeed, my children COULD actually leave the house with me for visits (this was rarely allowed by uBPDw at any point in a our marriage). A lot of terrible things happened during this time. My only goal throughout the whole matter was to get uBPDw help and have her realize and admit that none of us are child molesters. That eventually happened in the presence of a therapist, (and by the fact that when I was away on business and she became ill, she called my father to come get the kids for the night). After much more therapy, I felt comfortable enough to "go home" and I did. Things have been better for the most part.

Now, uBPDw has revealed to me that she told s12 what my father (s12's grandfather) "did" to him. s12 has told me that he now "knows everything." My response to him was that just because your mother said it doesn't make it true. She has totally brainwashed my child.

What's the right response for this?

[livednlearned]

You may want to contact the same therapist and let him/her know what is happening and proceed based on his/her recommendation.

Where do things stand right now with S12? Was he 100 percent convinced that something happened to him?

[storagecold]

You may want to contact the same therapist and let him/her know what is happening and proceed based on his/her recommendation.

Where do things stand right now with S12? Was he 100 percent convinced that something happened to him?

The therapist is retired now. UBPDw won't allow me to be alone with S12. I need help to figure out what to say to him when I finally can get some time with him. If he were an adult, it would be a lot easier. The proof against uBPDw is astounding. But for a kid? She's completely brainwashed him.

[livednlearned]

You may want to contact the same therapist and let him/her know what is happening and proceed based on his/her recommendation.

Where do things stand right now with S12? Was he 100 percent convinced that something happened to him?

The therapist is retired now. UBPDw won't allow me to be alone with S12. I need help to figure out what to say to him when I finally can get some time with him. If he were an adult, it would be a lot easier. The proof against uBPDw is astounding. But for a kid? She's completely brainwashed him.

I highly recommend you read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. Parental alienation typically gets worse after separation but in your case it's escalated within the marriage. Warshak has a lot of detailed descriptions of what to say, and how to say it when there is a serious false allegation. For these kinds of cases, you'll need more than validation. You may also want to contact Dr. Craig Childress who is a leading expert on parental alienation and ask his advice. His view on PA is that it is a form of child abuse, and needs to be treated as such.

[storagecold]

I have read Divorce Poison, and Dr. Childress only provides consultation/advice on cases he has assessed. Thank you, though.

[formflier]

I have read Divorce Poison, and Dr. Childress only provides consultation/advice on cases he has assessed. Thank you, though.  

   OK, please let us know how the "won't let you be alone" thing works itself out.  Step 1 in this process is you need to establish a r/s with your kid, independent of your wife's control.  She gets to have her own r/s as well.    

FF

[Jessica84]

I would recommend speaking to a lawyer. People often wait too long to talk to one, thinking it's so bizarre nothing will ever come of it. These are dangerous allegations with devastating (and expensive) consequences. Try to help your son, but remember to protect yourself and other family members as well. Start by documenting these allegations - when/where they allegedly occurred. Keep it hidden so wife and son don't see it. Talk to your parents, establish alibi's, gather photos, screen-cap facebook pages or other social media, etc.

Very sorry you are going thru this 

[storagecold]

I would recommend speaking to a lawyer. People often wait too long to talk to one, thinking it's so bizarre nothing will ever come of it. These are dangerous allegations with devastating (and expensive) consequences. Try to help your son, but remember to protect yourself and other family members as well. Start by documenting these allegations - when/where they allegedly occurred. Keep it hidden so wife and son don't see it. Talk to your parents, establish alibi's, gather photos, screen-cap facebook pages or other social media, etc.

Very sorry you are going thru this 

Thanks. I have already been through this years ago. I have intense and continuing documentation that discredits her every accusation, and she knows it. The only remaining route for uBPDw has left is by discrediting me (and anyone associated with me) via my children. My son is too intelligent and logical for this to last long term.

What makes me so upset is knowing that uBPDw could possibly think -- in any state of mind -- that her horrible accusation(s) should be the burden of a child.

[Jessica84]

I agree. So sad your son has to deal with this at his age. I'm glad you're on top of it. Hoping for the best for you both!