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Author Topic: If BPD is only 5.9% of the population, how could some of us date 2 - 4 of them?  (Read 781 times)
NCEA
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« on: January 07, 2016, 11:17:56 AM »

So are they really BPD or are we just calling every person who ever dumped us BPD to justify why they didn't want us?

Is there an epidemic of madness due to our lifestyles? Fear of losing out, too much social media, too much TV and sex everywhere, and the world is just going crazy?

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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 11:32:19 AM »

Folks who warrant a clinical diagnosis of BPD are relatively few, although many folks exhibit traits of the disorder, they're on a continuum, and most folks exhibit some of the traits some of the time.  To warrant a diagnosis someone needs to exhibit several of the traits most of the time, as well as be diagnosed by a professional.

Humans are social animals, born to connect, and relationships are difficult but we don't want to live without them, part of the fun here on planet earth.  So macro issues aside, how are you today NC?
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 11:54:43 AM »

I am always skeptical when people talk about multiple BPD partners they have had. Frankly, if you had one encounter and know how much damage you could get from it, and then see the same traits in somebody else and don't walk away... .um... .I don't even know what to say.

I also think the vast majority of the population doesn't know what a personality disorder is. They think it it is some movie stuff. They think they are dealing with a "difficult" person or whatever. And have no idea what they are dealing with.
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MapleBob
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 11:57:17 AM »

I guess to actually answer the original thread-title question: we meet them because they're looking for us. There's something in us and something in them that draws us to each other.

Or, as my therapist used to put it: "the rocks in my head fit the holes in your head."
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 12:15:50 PM »

Some describe it as human magnets. One type of personality attracts another.

The incredulity of having multiple disordered partners? I have to put my hand up. I'm in my sixties and have had three such relationships.

But: put that in context. Forty years ago Cluster B PDs were not mentioned, the internet didn't exist and there was limited information about mental health.

I spent 25 years with a PD, in the 80s my family doctor told me that he was a type just being mentioned, not psychopathic but close to. I eventually divorced him without any further knowledge. I then married someone who I realised was a narcissist. My realisation was informed by the internet and then diagnosis. I had no idea such people existed.

I began to realise that I was co-dependent and began to look at FOO issues. I divorced, and I felt safe. I knew about narcissism. I had no idea about BPD, which manifests in different ways.

Horror! Here I am after a wasted summer of misery and eighteen months of walking on eggshells. I know a lot more about BPD now and I also am as certain as I can be that my ex is BPD.

At least a sliding scale: 25 years, 8 years and eighteen months.

I am wide eyed and wary; examining why I attract/am attracted to such men and determined to do the work and not fall into the pit again.
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burritoman
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 12:40:33 PM »

Exactly, and in a major metropolitan city that's 5,000 people for every 100,000. Realistically that's a lot of people.
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 12:44:56 PM »

We run into many people that are called "toxic", "difficult", "high-conflict". Not all of them exactly have BPD but behaviours, ways of manipulation and abuse are more similar than different. There is the entire Cluster B, sex addicts, substance addicts, comorbids, pathological liars, passive aggressives, their victims, people with serious intimacy problems. More undiagnosed people than the diagnosed. These behaviours make up a really big part of human interaction and we get tested more than medical statistics would indicate. Also, some people have mutual radars, so that's what they more or less choose to run into. We may tend to friend-zone low-risk people and only accept high-risk people.  
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2016, 12:52:27 PM »

To answer it from my perspective with two uBPD ex one with all nine traits and one with seven. I think its because Im drawn to a particular type and unfortunately that type is BPD. Im quite shy and they where the ones that did the chasing.

Also bear in mind that pwBPD can have multiple relationships. Since splitting up with me under two years ago my exgf is on her second relationship. She also I believe has cheated on her last boyfriend and I hear rumours of other things that she has been up to. She once told me that she had slept with over two hundred men. She has been married twice and lived with at least seven other men. So taking into account that she has probably had at least 30 relationships then there are 30 men out there that have been through or are going through or about to go through what we have.
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hopealways
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 12:54:38 PM »

I personally believe the 1% statistic is way too low. It may represent people actually diagnosed. I think the real number is over 10%.  And no, it is not our fault for being attracted to them, we did not make them the way they are.
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 12:55:26 PM »

She once told me that she had slept with over two hundred men.

Good point! Maybe it's not that we're meeting so many of them - they're meeting so many of us! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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NCEA
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2016, 01:01:34 PM »

She once told me that she had slept with over two hundred men.

Good point! Maybe it's not that we're meeting so many of them - they're meeting so many of us! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Wow. Yes that is a lot. I asked my ex with how many guys she was, she said "low 20s" but she might have lied down and it was more like 30 or more. That's still a lot, she keeps long term lovers.
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 01:26:13 PM »

I asked myself the same question. Point is there are many disorders, does it matter if it's Borderline, Narcissistic, Histrionic or what have you? It's dysfunctional all the same.

My ex displayed traits of all 3, but BPD is the better fit. The writing is on the wall. Even if she doesn't have any PD at all, it's still clear as day that she's toxic, and can't function in a relationship at the very least.

I too had my doubts, but honestly none of my other ex's had these issues. Dating them was a walk in the park compared to her...

Having read some of your posts I'm sure you know what I mean. The facts don't lie.
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UVA2002
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 05:30:32 AM »

1 shark can eat many seals
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 06:48:21 AM »

I have just detached from a relationship for the second time with someone I consider to have a PD as opposed to the usual human messiness we all have inside. This has given me serious pause for thought. Here's where I'm at:

They had very different ways of exhibiting their PDs (this latest one had the nasty Mr Hyde, previous was non-aggressive narcissist). What they had in common was the LOVEBOMB, idealize, devalue etc etc. By the time we got to devalue I was of course in love. I think in my case I need to take a step back and ask myself why I attached so quickly and completely to a lovebomb, and work out what I can do to build myself up so I don't fall for it again.

I am hoping to start therapy soon to work on this.

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bAlex
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 08:57:09 AM »

She once told me that she had slept with over two hundred men.

Wow. Yes that is a lot. I asked my ex with how many guys she was, she said "low 20s" but she might have lied down and it was more like 30 or more. That's still a lot, she keeps long term lovers. [/quote]
Another "red flag" that we so easily seem to miss... .

A woman with a high notch count is bad news by default.

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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2016, 09:19:43 AM »

Another "red flag" that we so easily seem to miss... .

A woman with a high notch count is bad news by default.

It wasn't something divulged straight away. Closer to the end and was a definite red flag for me. From what I hear the way she is going it wont be long before the 300 mark is hit.
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2016, 10:15:27 AM »

Another "red flag" that we so easily seem to miss... .

A woman with a high notch count is bad news by default.

That's one belief Alex, although people have different levels of sexual appetite, and a more important thing is why someone has as much sex as they do, the actual number being less important.  And really, is it not how many sex partners our partner has had that is the issue, it's how different it might be from how many we've had that bugs us?
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2016, 10:19:54 AM »

I think your post has touched on something essential in understanding not only BPD but also the prevelance and apparent increase of cluster B traits in society... .I believe if we look at mainstream media, the music industry, propaganda, advertising, corporations, social media (obsession with 'selfies' etc), the cult of celebrity... .perhaps capitalism itself... .we see promotion and encouragement of these traits and base emotional responses... .sex, drama, dismay and angst makes money, significant amounts of money.  Creating this state of being 'on mass' allows a population to be manipluated much more easily. (5 years tv free now  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)).

I fundamentally believe BPD is 'real'... .I recognised in partners and FOO repeated behaviour over time that fitted a group of symptoms promoted by clinicians as a diagnosable personality disorder.  Learning SET language and validation techniques here helped to alleviate the worst of that behaviour (to a point)... .
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2016, 10:21:01 AM »

1 shark can eat many seals

Makes sense if we see ourselves as defenseless prey... .

Most of us are not dealing with diagnosed BPD (5.9%) or even a personality divorced (9.1% all combined). Most of us are dealing with people with personalty disorder traits - personality style.  That percentage is higher and even higher still in the unmarried populations, where as people get older and haven't found a permanent partner there is likely a reason.

We know from other statistics on the site the 28% of the population has a diagnoseable mental illness or addiction.

What's the takeaway - there are a lot of difficult and wounded people (remember we are in these statistics somewhere) and one needs to have skills to navigate this world.

Why do some members have repeats? It's most likely emotional skills. It's kinda the hard truth we all must face at some level.

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UVA2002
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2016, 03:57:16 AM »

Another "red flag" that we so easily seem to miss... .

A woman with a high notch count is bad news by default.

That's one belief Alex, although people have different levels of sexual appetite, and a more important thing is why someone has as much sex as they do, the actual number being less important.  And really, is it not how many sex partners our partner has had that is the issue, it's how different it might be from how many we've had that bugs us?

Yea but I worry more about the "bugs" she might have from those 200 partners.
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UVA2002
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2016, 04:02:25 AM »

1 shark can eat many seals

Makes sense if we see ourselves as defenseless prey... .

Most of us are not dealing with diagnosed BPD (5.9%) or even a personality divorced (9.1% all combined). Most of us are dealing with people with personalty disorder traits - personality style.  That percentage is higher and even higher still in the unmarried populations, where as people get older and haven't found a permanent partner there is likely a reason.

We know from other statistics on the site the 28% of the population has a diagnoseable mental illness or addiction.

What's the takeaway - there are a lot of difficult and wounded people (remember we are in these statistics somewhere) and one needs to have skills to navigate this world.

Why do some members have repeats? It's most likely emotional skills. It's kinda the hard truth we all must face at some level.

And basically defenseless pray is what also t of of felt like but this site def helps. The red flags should be a sticky thread for all to see. My BPD relationship began at a stagnant or low point to n my life so definitely a case of self esteem and boredom . I still don't let them off the hook for their actions. The BPD is no excuse when your aware of your hurting others that just makes you bad.
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bAlex
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2016, 04:17:14 AM »

1 shark can eat many seals

Makes sense if we see ourselves as defenseless prey... .

Most of us are not dealing with diagnosed BPD (5.9%) or even a personality divorced (9.1% all combined). Most of us are dealing with people with personalty disorder traits - personality style.  That percentage is higher and even higher still in the unmarried populations, where as people get older and haven't found a permanent partner there is likely a reason.

We know from other statistics on the site the 28% of the population has a diagnoseable mental illness or addiction.

What's the takeaway - there are a lot of difficult and wounded people (remember we are in these statistics somewhere) and one needs to have skills to navigate this world.

Why do some members have repeats? It's most likely emotional skills. It's kinda the hard truth we all must face at some level.

And basically defenseless pray is what also t of of felt like but this site def helps. The red flags should be a sticky thread for all to see. My BPD relationship began at a stagnant or low point to n my life so definitely a case of self esteem and boredom . I still don't let them off the hook for their actions. The BPD is no excuse when your aware of your hurting others that just makes you bad.

Exactly. They know right from wrong so why choose wrong? I don't buy the idea that they are powerless against themselves or their emotions. In the end they still make a CHOICE.
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2016, 04:54:45 AM »

I agree that red flags should be a sticky.  They are very helpful.

I do fall into this category (3) unfortunately.  I am really sad that I keep getting into this situation.  And this is the biggest question that I want to answer for myself.  I am on my 3rd one and the symptoms in each one have gone significantly better.  The first one was knife wielding and last one is a mental therapist with actual healthy coping skills.  I believe there is a spectrum and traits can be severe or mild.  I have recognized 2 BPDs with clear symptoms after my 2nd.  I am happy to say that in those cases I was able to cancel plans and say no even though they were attractive.  

The last one I dated for two months and I noticed something was off and I cancelled further dates.  But 6 months later I was horny and decided that would be an "easy win" and voila I am instantly in another stormy relationship.  I choose to overlook her taking baths with clothes on.  I choose to overlook her stories about past trauma and remember thinking you sure had a lot of trauma i dont think i want to know anything about your past anymore.  The fact that sex was amazing and her other qualities were sufficient to overlook a certain weirdness.

This is what I think got me there:

1) I can be impulsive and make quick rash decisions. I sort of don't have the patience and stamina to think through.

2)  I have difficulty in saying no.  This is a sliding scale and I have done lots of work to move that knob to the right.  When you cant say no you cant stop a relationship.  It is like I havent valued myself and that I deserve to be happy and didnt want to hurt the other person's feelings.  If someone is pushy or doesnt feel right I have to say no.

3) Inability to deal with aloneness.  Fear to face life on my own.  This then so quickly turns into not saying no to people and situations that are not healthy for me

4) drinking.  I quit 3 years ago... .But that was a big one that led me to some really really dumb decisions

5) love or sex is enough.  Nope I dont believe in this anymore.

6) accepting bad treatment from others.  I need to value myself and stand up for things I believe in whatever they may be
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NCEA
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2016, 05:01:07 AM »

GREAT POST...

I agree that red flags should be a sticky.  They are very helpful.

I do fall into this category (3) unfortunately.  I am really sad that I keep getting into this situation.  And this is the biggest question that I want to answer for myself.  I am on my 3rd one and the symptoms in each one have gone significantly better.  The first one was knife wielding and last one is a mental therapist with actual healthy coping skills.  I believe there is a spectrum and traits can be severe or mild.  I have recognized 2 BPDs with clear symptoms after my 2nd.  I am happy to say that in those cases I was able to cancel plans and say no even though they were attractive.  

The last one I dated for two months and I noticed something was off and I cancelled further dates.  But 6 months later I was horny and decided that would be an "easy win" and voila I am instantly in another stormy relationship.  I choose to overlook her taking baths with clothes on.  I choose to overlook her stories about past trauma and remember thinking you sure had a lot of trauma i dont think i want to know anything about your past anymore.  The fact that sex was amazing and her other qualities were sufficient to overlook a certain weirdness.

This is what I think got me there:

1) I can be impulsive and make quick rash decisions. I sort of don't have the patience and stamina to think through.

2)  I have difficulty in saying no.  This is a sliding scale and I have done lots of work to move that knob to the right.  When you cant say no you cant stop a relationship.  It is like I havent valued myself and that I deserve to be happy and didnt want to hurt the other person's feelings.  If someone is pushy or doesnt feel right I have to say no.

3) Inability to deal with aloneness.  Fear to face life on my own.  This then so quickly turns into not saying no to people and situations that are not healthy for me

4) drinking.  I quit 3 years ago... .But that was a big one that led me to some really really dumb decisions

5) love or sex is enough.  Nope I dont believe in this anymore.

6) accepting bad treatment from others.  I need to value myself and stand up for things I believe in whatever they may be

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UVA2002
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2016, 12:08:01 PM »

1 shark can eat many seals

Makes sense if we see ourselves as defenseless prey... .

Most of us are not dealing with diagnosed BPD (5.9%) or even a personality divorced (9.1% all combined). Most of us are dealing with people with personalty disorder traits - personality style.  That percentage is higher and even higher still in the unmarried populations, where as people get older and haven't found a permanent partner there is likely a reason.

We know from other statistics on the site the 28% of the population has a diagnoseable mental illness or addiction.

What's the takeaway - there are a lot of difficult and wounded people (remember we are in these statistics somewhere) and one needs to have skills to navigate this world.

Why do some members have repeats? It's most likely emotional skills. It's kinda the hard truth we all must face at some level.

And basically defenseless pray is what also t of of felt like but this site def helps. The red flags should be a sticky thread for all to see. My BPD relationship began at a stagnant or low point to n my life so definitely a case of self esteem and boredom . I still don't let them off the hook for their actions. The BPD is no excuse when your aware of your hurting others that just makes you bad.

Exactly. They know right from wrong so why choose wrong? I don't buy the idea that they are powerless against themselves or their emotions. In the end they still make a CHOICE.

Thanks that really makes me think because heck I had the choice as well we all did. There were a million red flags and she pretty much shouted what was going on. Although not the depth of it still . Does karma apply to her actions when you know what you're getting into? Maybe so or maybe not but definitely a lesson learned(red flags) and she only caught a fleeting glimpse of me... .whaa I still sucks having to see her everyday.
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2016, 05:30:25 PM »

because we are attracted to people who match our own level of emotional development, we and BPD have incurred the same core trauma since childhood, we share the same frequency/vibration but the outcome played out differently for each one. that is why at the beginning the meeting between non and BPD seemed like a match made in heaven! until we repair archaic wounds ourselves we will always be attracted to people with BPD...
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2016, 04:22:12 AM »

because we are attracted to people who match our own level of emotional development, we and BPD have incurred the same core trauma since childhood, we share the same frequency/vibration but the outcome played out differently for each one. that is why at the beginning the meeting between non and BPD seemed like a match made in heaven! until we repair archaic wounds ourselves we will always be attracted to people with BPD...

Yep that's what I been figuring out. For me it has been 100% a self esteem issue. I'm a late bloomer as far as "cool" I guess so at 40 I still think I'm the poor wallflower that is a dork so when all the right girls are flirting with me I'm just oblivious to it so I get snared by predators. Now with the BPD playbook I can see it coming and have more confidence to not do it again. Because I've never met a more hurtful deceitful lying disappointing person ever than my previous ex gfwBPD. It's sad to see but knowing your actions makes you responsible not the BPD n she knew what she was doing admittedly.
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2016, 11:18:16 AM »

I personally believe the 1% statistic is way too low. It may represent people actually diagnosed. I think the real number is over 10%.  And no, it is not our fault for being attracted to them, we did not make them the way they are.

Men are woefully underdiagnosed as well.
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2016, 11:59:37 AM »

PD people excel at screening out those who will resist their charms and focus on those who are susceptible.  I am very empathetic so it makes me vulnerable to PDs. 

Last year I allowed an individual who exhibits many of the traits of Anti Social Personality Disorder to stay with me as a roommate in my rental room.  It got so bad I had to engineer his departure after he caused thousands of dollars in property damage.

He tried to reengage me a few months ago asking to stay with me again.  He destroyed my rental room and took about 60 hours of my labor to decontaminate the room from his filth.  I used the techniques I learned about handling BPDs from this place to handle him.  He even threatened to burn my house down if I did not let him stay.  My biggest original failure was not enforcing my boundaries as he slowly wormed his way past them. This time I stood firm with my boundary even while in fear of my house being torched as I knew I was dealing with a PD.  This man has committed arson before so my fears were very real. 

PD people are good at playing people.  We must all learn to recognize them even more quickly and walk away from them.

I have a female friend who has always dated narcissists. She is in an 18 year relationship with one where he is currently in the discard phase with her.  He has emotionally destroyed a very good woman.  I finally got her to go to see a therapist, and the therapist nailed her situation even though she tried to hide everything from the therapist.  I've got to keep her going to see that T as she is a very good T.
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