Walking into traps

[Depression = 72% of members]

You know the walking on eggshells feeling? Mine is more like being baited into traps.

This happened again last night and it is the perfect example. I am trying to sort out my role in it and what I can do differently. Lately I've had more success with boyfriend using the techniques here and the ones I use with my kids. But this one keeps happening.

Boyfriend does this thing where he directly elicits how I feel about something he knows is a trigger. In this case he specifically asked about how I was feeling about my kids. He knows my kids have gone from being excited about him to being completely resistant to our relationship... .after four years of chaos and recycling they are done. So he directly asks me how I feel about that situation, and I say yes, this is hard on me. He then begins to do his minimizing, deflecting and blaming. He goes into his laundry list of all the things he thinks I am to blame for him breaking up with me repeatedly. He is really into blame. He starts escalating.

In the karpman triangle he seems to see himself as the victim, which is odd, because he acts like the persecutor. He gets incredibly scornful and mocking. We had a counselor once who kept calling him on it, asking him why he felt such scorn for me, but he just can't see it. He believes he is being victimized.

Long story short he ends up ranting at me on the phone again. I have PTSD and I honestly dissociated a bit, so I can't remember everything he said, but the sad-funny part was him screaming at me he doesn't have an anger problem. Then hanging up on me. He has given me the silent treatment since. Again, sigh.

I've been doing my inventory and its hard. For now I am still in this relationship. I am wondering how and what I could be doing differently in this situation. I was trying to validate him in the conversation. I've been doing a really good job of that. But I still feel I am walking into traps. If I am trying to move to the center of the triangle what would it look like? How do I create boundaries on this issue?

Also I feel like the only answer in this relationship is to not be honest. I feel like what is working with him requires I take a parental role and have to keep my true feelings to myself. It is very sad and hard.

[HurtinNW]

You know the walking on eggshells feeling? Mine is more like being baited into traps.

This happened again last night and it is the perfect example. I am trying to sort out my role in it and what I can do differently. Lately I've had more success with boyfriend using the techniques here and the ones I use with my kids. But this one keeps happening.

Boyfriend does this thing where he directly elicits how I feel about something he knows is a trigger. In this case he specifically asked about how I was feeling about my kids. He knows my kids have gone from being excited about him to being completely resistant to our relationship... .after four years of chaos and recycling they are done. So he directly asks me how I feel about that situation, and I say yes, this is hard on me. He then begins to do his minimizing, deflecting and blaming. He goes into his laundry list of all the things he thinks I am to blame for him breaking up with me repeatedly. He is really into blame. He starts escalating.

In the karpman triangle he seems to see himself as the victim, which is odd, because he acts like the persecutor. He gets incredibly scornful and mocking. We had a counselor once who kept calling him on it, asking him why he felt such scorn for me, but he just can't see it. He believes he is being victimized.

Long story short he ends up ranting at me on the phone again. I have PTSD and I honestly dissociated a bit, so I can't remember everything he said, but the sad-funny part was him screaming at me he doesn't have an anger problem. Then hanging up on me. He has given me the silent treatment since. Again, sigh.

I've been doing my inventory and its hard. For now I am still in this relationship. I am wondering how and what I could be doing differently in this situation. I was trying to validate him in the conversation. I've been doing a really good job of that. But I still feel I am walking into traps. If I am trying to move to the center of the triangle what would it look like? How do I create boundaries on this issue?

Also I feel like the only answer in this relationship is to not be honest. I feel like what is working with him requires I take a parental role and have to keep my true feelings to myself. It is very sad and hard.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

One of the traps to fall into is to overvalidate, and end up invalidating. Its like trying to oil a broken cog in a machine, it still keeps clunking, once it is at that point you have to stop the process, let it cool down then rebuild it if necessary. Otherwise you risk breaking it further.

The process is validate then disengage, the aim is to not start invalidating or going into JADE as the web is woven tighter. Particularly when he began the process with that goal in mind so that he could project blame away from himself onto you.

If someone is clearly trying to hand you a bag of monkeys to sort out keep your hands behind your back otherwise they will loop the bag handles over your wrists before you realize they have done it

[HurtinNW]

Thank you. I suppose I should validate him asking these trigger questions, but not actually answer them? I am trying to figure out how to not take the bag of monkeys. I often feel I am in a no-win situation. No matter what I say he is going to get angry.

[waverider]

I often feel I am in a no-win situation. No matter what I say he is going to get angry.

Sometimes this is the case, and you have to cut your losses and stay off the train tracks so you dont get run over in the process of the train wreck.

[TheRealJongoBong]

And if anybody needs any monkeys I could send you a few cartons.

[formflier]

HurtinNW,

If the other examples/analogies for you use them.

The one I use is Star Wars.

https://youtu.be/4F4qzPbcFiA

Hang with me here.  Did they freak out and get all emotional that they had been trapped?  Nope, they got to work and started to employ the tools they had while figuring out a better plan.

What actually happened in the movie was the "validation" and other tools worked good enough to get to the heart of the matter and a solution was found.  Kaboom, problem solved.

What they movie didn't show is that sometimes you are better to make the jump to hyperspace and come back a later day.  And, like Han said in early movies, you don't want to jump too early, because

Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it.

Which is why practicing how to disengage in your head is very important.

HurtinNW,

I've been "doing this" for a while now and I still get sucked into these every once in a while.  Who wants to walk around with defenses up all the time.  The important thing is once you realize you are in one, take appropriate action and don't beat yourself up.

Here is my suggestion for the trap you are invited into.

First:  Big picture.  When pwBPD "come at you" with a trap.  Don't fight back, stay calm and expend minimal energy.  The shot doesn't even have to totally "miss" you.  Just move aside enough that it ricochets of you without effect.  Sometimes those ricochets actually end up hitting the pwBPD.  Not your problem, you didn't shoot it, but it is sometimes fun to watch.

So:

pwBPD:  Hey, how do you feel about kids

you:  Wow, good question, glad you asked, because that is something I haven't thought much about lately.  Can you share your feelings about it while I consider your question?

Validate what you hear and disengage.  Do NOT share you feelings or redirect and say I feel we need to focus on a solution for (fill in blank)

His request is important and you need to take the proper time to consider it so that you may give him a good answer.

But, you know he wants something to minimize so hand him something to solve and leave him to sort out what to do with it.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

My situation is somewhat similar. BPDh kids won't accept me, but it's him with BPD/NPD(maybe even antisocial traits). His kids are a hot topic for us, because I'm hurt by their attitudes and the lies they've told, and yet I've never seen him do anything to them to explain their hateful attitudes. Like your boyfriend, BPDh wants to play the victim, but he's often very blaming and projects his crap onto me. This used to bother me greatly, but not nearly so much anymore.

I just decided that pwBPD are very likely to have BPD acting kids, and step kids in general can have a tendency to be unaccepting, so this isn't about ME, per se. BPDh with his fear of abandonment, hates to confront them, or set boundaries with them, thereby handing them power to hurt him, and reject us. He's finally set some boundaries, and is seeing just how unhealthy they've acted. He has more trouble accepting HIS part in it: zero boundaries, lack of confronting their ugly behaviors, and enmeshment with them from a young age. I'm actually amazed he's come this far, as I seriously doubted he ever would, no matter how many family, friends and therapists told him he needed boundaries.

I think they best you can do is validate his hurt over how your kids feel(even though they have a right to feel as they do), then try to get off the subject or disengage for a bit. No good will come of it after the validation most likely. He'll just want to keep dumping blame at your door, because he obviously isn't willing to take any.

It's a hard place to be in for a parent. My kids have dealt with all this much better than BPDh's have, even if they don't always appreciate how he treats me. They know he has an issue, and they respect my choice to stay with him.

[HurtinNW]

Thank you ff and ceruleanblue!

Formflier, I really struggle with this. Because I want a relationship where I feel heard, where I can share my feelings. Maybe a large part of this is coming to terms that I can't do that. The radical acceptance piece for me is very hard. Here I am dealing with the fact my loved partner has blown his relationships with my kids to smithereens... .and he wants to blame me. It is hard to do what you suggest: refusing to be baited, and not answering the question, but redirecting.

How do others handle that loss? I mean, how do you handle being in a relationship where you are often alone, and unheard? Where you can't say things (even when asked)? Where you cannot share?

Ceruleanblue, yes, exactly. In my inventory my kids are the big issue. It's one thing for me to be codependent and deal with pwBPD. Can I ask that of them? This is someone who came into their life after years of stability with me... .It was going to be a stepdad situation. Honestly, he had it made. They were super excited about their mom meeting someone. They all wanted a father figure. He's the one who honestly tanked it by repeatedly breaking up, storming away, and giving us all the silent treatment. He honestly doesn't seem to understand why they not longer like or trust him.

BPD boyfriend knows this is the issue I am most sensitive about, and I'm very concerned that he continues to see the problem as a blame issue. I'm really conflicted on this. This may be my rock bottom issue with him.