Is changing me enough?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Greetings.

Background: I had self-selected the Leaving category.  I have suffered 18 years married to uPBDw, with strong Avoidant PD traits.  I have gone through emotional and physical separation (I'm sleeping in the basement "Man Cave", and have made substantial preparations for divorce.  However, I've got 5 kids, and it is not easy to willingly subject them to the turmoil of divorce.

Meanwhile, I have read, and studied, and grown, and learned a great deal.  Not only do I understand more about BPD, but, I have repaired a lot of the damage done, and strengthened myself against being a victim.  I am applying my life changes as I act as a good father to the kids too.

While I've gotten better, I seem to not be able to reach a point of deciding for or against divorce, in spite of the true feeling that it has to happen eventually.  I am wondering if there is some point at which my improvements will make things so much better that I can stay married and successfully raise healthy kids.  My prime interest is breaking the chain of generational abuse. 

My wife is generally acting better.  She does not rage at me anymore because I won't stand for it.  I let the subtle passive aggressions just roll off me.  I don't feed her need for conflict.  I don't doubt she still feels hopeless and dark inside, but, it does not show as much.

I'm stuck right now knowing that staying married would be easier than getting a divorce.  I suppose I can try keeping boundaries, teaching and modeling healthy behavior for the kids, and toughing it out.  I'll admit too, that it's getting mighty lonely and I'm longing for emotional and physical intimacy - although if I got back together with my wife, it might meet a need for a night, but end in the same push / pull turmoil as before.

Has anyone had similar attempts at reconciling, knowing that BPD's can't really change without extreme effort, but counting on healthy changes from within?

Is it wishful thinking? Desperation for closeness once again?

I could try going back, but, with divorce separation already well underway (a legal principle and cause for divorce in Virginia), I could lose a lot of ground and clear-thinking in the process.  I guess I don't really have a question that be answered by the community, but, I'm hoping that by talking this out, I can see the direction to take.

Thanks for reading, and sharing if you chose.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Greetings.

Background: I had self-selected the Leaving category.  I have suffered 18 years married to uPBDw, with strong Avoidant PD traits.  I have gone through emotional and physical separation (I'm sleeping in the basement "Man Cave", and have made substantial preparations for divorce.  However, I've got 5 kids, and it is not easy to willingly subject them to the turmoil of divorce.

Meanwhile, I have read, and studied, and grown, and learned a great deal.  Not only do I understand more about BPD, but, I have repaired a lot of the damage done, and strengthened myself against being a victim.  I am applying my life changes as I act as a good father to the kids too.

While I've gotten better, I seem to not be able to reach a point of deciding for or against divorce, in spite of the true feeling that it has to happen eventually.  I am wondering if there is some point at which my improvements will make things so much better that I can stay married and successfully raise healthy kids.  My prime interest is breaking the chain of generational abuse. 

My wife is generally acting better.  She does not rage at me anymore because I won't stand for it.  I let the subtle passive aggressions just roll off me.  I don't feed her need for conflict.  I don't doubt she still feels hopeless and dark inside, but, it does not show as much.

I'm stuck right now knowing that staying married would be easier than getting a divorce.  I suppose I can try keeping boundaries, teaching and modeling healthy behavior for the kids, and toughing it out.  I'll admit too, that it's getting mighty lonely and I'm longing for emotional and physical intimacy - although if I got back together with my wife, it might meet a need for a night, but end in the same push / pull turmoil as before.

Has anyone had similar attempts at reconciling, knowing that BPD's can't really change without extreme effort, but counting on healthy changes from within?

Is it wishful thinking? Desperation for closeness once again?

I could try going back, but, with divorce separation already well underway (a legal principle and cause for divorce in Virginia), I could lose a lot of ground and clear-thinking in the process.  I guess I don't really have a question that be answered by the community, but, I'm hoping that by talking this out, I can see the direction to take.

Thanks for reading, and sharing if you chose.

[HopefulDad]

You have a very good handle on what's in store should you stay.  No delusions of any changes on her part and only counting on yourself and what you can do within the relationship.

Just think long and hard about what you want, knowing the above.  Understand that you are not "stuck" right now.  You've made a decision by choosing to stay, whether that's temporary or permanent.  Indecision is a decision.  Reasons include "not putting the children through the turmoil of a divorce", but also understand there is "putting the children through the turmoil of a dysfunctional marriage".  Only you have a good feel of which is the better of the two and how much that should weigh in your list of pros and cons of choosing to stay vs. divorce.  Some children suffer the scars of their parents' divorce.  Other children thrive, seeing their healthy parent set a great example of how to be an adult setting healthy boundaries and perhaps finding a better relationship for their children to observe and really learn from.

And while you consider what's best for your children, think about what's best for you personally.

Good luck.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you for your thoughts.  It brings me to realize that I am beating myself up to try to do what's "best for the kids."  When, in reality, they are, and will be, their own person.  I may want the best home life for them, but, it is not mine to give them.

I do try often to look at both sides of the solution. I can tell myself I am a better influence for them when I can be around them more (stay married), and I also tell myself I can be a better example by getting out of a toxic relationship - which is what I would want them to do.  Then there's guilt if I think about leaving... .

[Concerns]

From what I've gathered because my situation is very similar, children suffer in high conflict marriages. In this, it would be best to split. Other than that, the children seek stability and the unity of the parental unit. Staying in a "toxic"(this is a loaded word) relationship, I think, depends on how bad its externally manifested in front of the children.  However, the jury is definitely out. There is evidence for both staying and leaving. I am in the staying camp although I do wonder. From my own life experience and as a man, I didn't take the split of my parents well and I was 8-9. I knew the break was there and the absence left a hole in my life that really influences me to this day. While the children may be their own people. IMO, I wouldn't try to convince yourself that their personhood is solely up to them. I feel it is yours to give them. Being around them is tantamount. It's an obligation really for both parents. I know this really isn't the culture we live in right now but I think people have become disposable and their children suffer for it. All this happens under the guise of "being happy" when all people are really doing is thinking of themselves. On that, a certain amount of selfishness is appropriate in this situation. Be the best parent and the best person for yourself to be the best parent for your kids. They will see this in you. 

Another thing, never leave your home. It can be seen as abandonment during divorce proceedings. If she wants the marriage to end then she should leave.

[Lucky Jim]

I do try often to look at both sides of the solution. I can tell myself I am a better influence for them when I can be around them more (stay married), and I also tell myself I can be a better example by getting out of a toxic relationship - which is what I would want them to do.  Then there's guilt if I think about leaving... .

Hey Samwize, I've been on both sides of this dilemma and there's no easy answer.  I stayed way longer than was healthy because I thought I could be a stabilizing influence on the kids to balance out the BPD turmoil.  Yet in the process I ran myself into the ground.  Having left my marriage, I like to think that I set an example for the kids that change is possible and that you don't have to stay in an abusive situation with a BPD tyrant.  Everyone has to find their own way through the Cave of the BPD Minotaur, so I can only suggest that you focus on what is right for you.

LuckyJim

[HopefulDad]

Another thing, never leave your home. It can be seen as abandonment during divorce proceedings. If she wants the marriage to end then she should leave.

This "never leave your home" is a blanket statement that doesn't always apply, primarily dictated by your state's laws.  If you are contemplating leaving your home, consult with a lawyer first and determine exactly what you are giving up or potentially giving up if you don't follow certain steps.  In my case, my lawyer advised me that as long as I maintained regular contact with my children, I was giving up nothing.  And it turned out to be true.

[ladylee]

My husband tried to lure me into the trap of legal abandonment so he could find a way to take my assets, because in Connecticut, where I lived, I believe there is a law.  I did not leave without a written agreement in place, but we are not divorced yet, I am taking it slow because I do not want to lose things I am entitled to after ten years of marriage, it has not been ten years yet.  However, if a person is making your life so miserable you cannot live with them, there is such a thing called constructive abandonment I believe, where you cannot be held accountable when you leave, depends on the state you live in, you have to consult a lawyer, but you have to document it, with police reports and journals, photos, recordings of fights, things thrown in a rage and broken, and they have to be aware you have these records.  A fight like this gets nasty and may not be worth it.  I like the idea of not fighting dirty like that, BPDs will win anyway, they are master manipulators and think nothing of lying and twisting the truth, so it is not worth it.  I like making slow decisions.  Someone said somewhere, having a place set up nearby if they stay in a marriage, that they can escape to, when things get rough, like a little camp out, so they do not have to go to hotels, that is just their own safe place.  Then they can go back after the rages are over.  The point is ensuring safety.  I did not have children, but I wanted to make sure I had financial safety and my pets were safe.  He let the cat out once when he was not supposed to and she was mauled and almost killed.  It cost me $4,000 to get her medical attention, because I did not want to put her down.  He was that irresponsible, what if we had children, good thing I never had kids with this guy.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you all. I believe I am safe living with my uBPDw.  However, it does not rule out a sudden rage, or false accusations of my misbehavior, so, I remain vigilant.  I'm staying in the house.  I live in Virginia (USA) and have been advised to stay in the house and be separated under the same roof.  But, that's without egregiously dangerous behavior - which could change things. 

It's too bad, I have to live like something in between a witness on the stand in court, who vets and considers every possible outcome of everything I say; and an actor, who knows it's all a fiction.

My motivation is to provide stability for the kids.  As an update, we had a reconciling of sorts over the weekend.  It broke the ice about things we hadn't previously talked about, and she has (gasp!) accepted responsibility for the damage she has done, and her role in this mess.  Now, on one hand, I'd be happy just to go forward like the problem was fixed, and go on with a happy life.  On the other hand, experience teaches us that the apparent change may last only as long as the present mood.  The past would suggest that when she feels lonely again, or threatened by feelings of insecurity, the feelings will turn to facts, and we'll be off into another downward spiral.

I am observing though, that in the past year, I have made huge strides in my own behavior, and by changing me, I have changed what is around me.  Understanding BPD now, has really given me perspective.  The knowledge and perspective has let me get healthier and happier.  That in turn, has affected those around me.  The kids are better off since I can be a better example, and meanwhile support them and defend when needed.  My wife might be better off too, since now I can articulate and keep boundaries. 

Just like not being in the middle of agony feels like peace, being safe for a bit against toxic BPD influences feels like joy.  My expectations for relationships have gotten pretty low, huh?