BPD person - internal fight. Not helping with my recovery now when I know this.

[blackbirdsong]

Hi,

I talked to my exGF recently.

I knew that one of her ex boyfriends contacted her after our breakup, invited her to travel with him.

She accepted. She didn't knew that I know this (that he invited her nor that she accepted)

Later, when I contacted her, and asked her about this, she said that she accepted because of her "state", she reacted impulsively because she was hurt and angry that I left her.

But then she realized that she can't do this just because she is hurt and she canceled the trip few hours later. She says that she doesn't feel anything for him and that it seemed as mistake later.

To me this is really disturbing, this type of internal fight. And BPD is called 'shame disorder' and no wonder - their reactions (impulse) make them do things, like a reflex,  and they are regretting these acts later on, the additional shame is induced. Never ending story.

She is in therapy, also doing a lot of self-helping methods and learning coping mechanisms but it is still hard. She says that every day she has a feeling that she needs to win the battle with herself.

Just imagine that, think for a few minutes about that sentence. It is mind-blowing to me.

But she won't quit, she is fighting for 3 years now.

This statement doesn't help my recovery. Now I feel even worse because I see her fight, she says that she loves me but will accept my decision and wish to leave her.

I learned a lot about BPD during my recovery, using this forum, healing books, science articles etc.

I presented her my opinion about our relationship, not even mentioning BPD, we talk about this using term "her state", said that I understand all these "bad things", how she reacted and what is more important WHY she reacted in that way. After our talk she said that for the first time in her life, she had feeling that someone from her environment understands her condition, and she is grateful for this. That it is revealing that someone knows that she is not crazy. It is easier for her to cope with this, because when nobody understands, it makes you wonder is it really true, your perspective and belief. "Am I really crazy" question.

I just feel bad because I am leaving someone and increasing her pain. Especially because now I understand that she is not a bad person. The only thing that is bad is BPD.

And somehow, this $hit always wins. And I hate to feel helpless.

I know that this state of BPD maybe sounds great considering many of the stories here, but it is still hard. Very hard.

It would be much easier for me if she doesn't admit her problem and won't work on it. I would be gone in two seconds.   

Any opinions/advices/experiences?

[Lonely_Astro]

I'll give my experience: just stay away. No good will come of it for you.

I was with J 4 years ago for about 4 months. It was a whirlwind and we crashed and burned.  She went and was diagnosed BPD right as we ended. She said she did this because even though I was good to her, she had done horrible things to me (some I didn't even know of) and she was determined to "beat it and get better".  3 years we were NC (despite working together).  We started talking again and J was like yours in the fact she was talking openly about her disorder, how she was medicated, and how she had been through "intensive therapy" (I specifically asked if it was DBT, she said yes).  She seemed so unbelievably different.  And she said all of it was because of me - I was the reason she was better.  We became friends and that led to a romantic r/s (we started as an affair, btw).

It was up and down.  A lot I put on our situation, but something started to seem off a few months in. I had told myself and her that if I ever picked up on something being "weird", I'd be out, but of course I didn't.  J claimed she was divorcing M about Jan of 2015.  She had told me she had moved out back in late Oct/Nov of 2014.  By June of 2015, her divorce wasn't final yet, despite no assets/kids.  She was mad at me because I had not left my marriage yet, despite the fact that neither had she (I actually looked into her divorce and the courts had no record of a divorce filing- so she had been lying to me. She claimed a paperwork mix up, but I directly confronted her about that lie.).  That led to her seeing a 3rd guy (B) for the month of July.  When she was found out about that, she blamed me because I "wouldn't leave my marriage for her or talk to her about what was going on" and she "knew I was going to abandon her". Keep in mind, I was always up front with her.  On my side, I wasn't like her: I had considerable assets, debts, and a kid to get worked out.  I had told J that my wife and I were roommates without benefits and (while no one ever believes this), I didn't sleep with my wife when J and I started up and beyond.  In my marriage, I had been reduced to a breadwinner babysitter. But that's a different topic all together.

I had found out about B after he sent her flowers at work and J played it off.  I found out a few days after from a co worker that she had been seeing B all of July.  So, once confronted, she finally admitted it.  I told her that I hoped he made her happy and said goodbye.  I wouldn't say it was love bombing, but she contacted me every day, all day, and night.  After all that discussion/debate, I agreed to another go around. That, in hindsight, was a mistake.  The rest of August was ok, she had said she was going to go to DBT because she couldn't believe she had done what she had to me in July.  Keep in mind she's still married to M during all this, too, still claiming the divorce is happening and they just kept fighting over furniture or whatever.  I was growing impatient with the lying. All she had to do was be honest, seriously.

Anyway, on my side of things, my wife had moved out and proceedings were underway.  By September, for all intents and purposes, J had what she wanted: I was available to her 24/7.  September was a good month between us, she started DBT midway through.  At the first part of October, she went silent on me for a day (she text me, but it was hours between responses, etc, just wasn't like her).  I had known something was up and it wasn't good.  She was to busy to see me outside work and always had an excuse to not be around me.  I had booked a weekend trip for her birthday at the end of October, she forced a huge fight the weekend before and blamed me for it.  She also blamed me for not being able to go on the trip, even though I repeatly begged her to go.  I even went to work to see her before I left on the trip, to ask her one last time if she wanted to go, and while there a process server showed up and served her divorce papers. Yep, she was just now getting a divorce.  She had a total meltdown on the spot.  We barely spoke while I was on our trip.  By mid November, I was prepared to fully walk away. She agreed to meet me face to face for the first time outside of work since late Sept.

We talked for hours.  I directly asked her if she wanted to commit to our r/s or end it.  She said "I don't want us to end, we will get through this like we always do".  We hugged for a long time and she walked out of my door.  That was the last time I would hug her.  Nothing in our r/s changed.  By mid December I had heard she was dating someone.  I immediately confronted her and she said she had had dinner with an old friend (R) who was going through the same thing she was (a divorce, btw. R's wife had slept with and was seeing 2 of my co-workers). During that talk, she let it slip that she had went to dinner with him twice (once after work one day and another that weekend). She feigned she thought we had ended and was tricked into a date with R. Uh, huh, sure.  We had discussed a boundary back in August and she had violated my "walk away" boundary (cheating - please understand that her going to dinner wouldn't be perceived as cheating had she told me prior, but I had to find out through another person, so I took the obvious deception on her part as an indication there was a potential for more with R to her).  She also didn't see the "big deal" with dinner because he was "to weird" for her and had no plans of pursuing a romantic r/s with him.  So were all clear, she saw it ok to hide the dates because they weren't going anywhere and I didn't have a right to be upset, even though she wouldn't see me because she was "to depressed to get out of bed" or she was "fighting with her family to much" to go out to dinner or anything else.  She blatantly lied to me, which is something else that spurred my decision to leave.

So I told her that come new year, we wouldn't talk personally anymore.  I had done this for two reasons: to allow me to detach slowly and to ease her fear of abandonment.  She was so clear, so grounded, I began to question my decision.  I really did.  She said at one point that I was leaving her just as she was now able to really be mine.  Her divorce was final (though I never followed up), DBT was helping, etc etc.  the problem was I couldn't trust her.  Not after everything that had happened.  She was calling me, texting me all the time, and seemed to be the J I had grown to love again.  I couldn't trust myself around her. 

After new year, we didn't talk for 2 weeks.  After a seemingly chance encounter at a coffee shop, I started talking to her again.  Not about getting back together per se, just talking.  She was apologetic yet still sort of "hollow" when she would say it. She had told me she had been "on a couple of" dates with someone.  It was painful to hear.  She claims it wasn't R, but who knows.  She also said to me "why do I feel better when I don't want to because of the stuff I did to you but I can't dwell on it".  For those who know BPD, we know why she feels better.  She also recommended a book for me to read (it's about a guy who breaks up with the "love of his life", goes on a year long "journey" of next level porn sex to find the "perfect balance between sexual freedom and intimacy", only to find out he's still empty, so he retreats into himself, finds his Zen, decides monogamy is true happiness and reconnect with the girl he dumped).  I happened to be in her department when someone said something about a local sweet shop and she said "I had one of those (cupcakes) the other night and it was ahmazing". She emphasized the word "amazing", which was a word she used with us often. Oh, I also presume this cupcake came at the end of one of her dates because of the way she looked at me after she said it to judge my reaction.  All that was hurtful to me and I was planning to go NC again because I had inadvertently became a supply for her again (negative contact is still contact, in their book).   

In yet another twist of irony, she knew I had to be back at the office after hours that night and I had to go by her desk because of the after hours entrance.  Sitting on her desk was a dozen, fresh red roses.  So I guess those "couple of dates" we're really great dates.  It angers me she's moved on that fast, it angers me she's used me... .again, and it hurts me that she knows just how BPD she is, but doesn't care. My head knows I'm better off without her but my heart hasn't caught up.  Where I'm at is, what if this guy is successful where I wasn't?  I'm not basing my self worth on him, but I did sacrifice and I did work hard on our r/s this year.  To sort of sum that up: what if he reaps what I've sown with her this past year?

[once removed]

hey blackbirdsong  

i think i understand your feelings here. its difficult to watch someone we care for struggle so immensely, to have an internal battle with themselves.

there is a big difference between making all of this your responsibility, rescuing or enabling, versus supporting her. it sounds to me like this conversation was the latter; you supported her. she felt someone had her back and understood her, validated her feelings. i think thats very encouraging and i suspect she felt the same. that may be all you are in a place to give her, and it is more than enough. by not being directly involved in her recovery, i dont think you are increasing her pain or making it more difficult for her to recover, quite the contrary.

[Moselle]

blackbirdsong,

That is a tough one to digest. Life is tough as it is, and to have that internal battle to contend with as well must be exhausting. Its easy to have compassion for someone who is trying so hard.

Staying or leaving is a deeply personal decision. I can see it was a hard one for you. Have you experienced that feeling before? Perhaps from the family where you grew up?

Do you think your recovery could happen if you were still in a relationship with her? I know I couldn't have.

[blackbirdsong]

hey blackbirdsong  

i think i understand your feelings here. its difficult to watch someone we care for struggle so immensely, to have an internal battle with themselves.

there is a big difference between making all of this your responsibility, rescuing or enabling, versus supporting her. it sounds to me like this conversation was the latter; you supported her. she felt someone had her back and understood her, validated her feelings. i think thats very encouraging and i suspect she felt the same. that may be all you are in a place to give her, and it is more than enough. by not being directly involved in her recovery, i dont think you are increasing her pain or making it more difficult for her to recover, quite the contrary.

Hi,

once removed. Thank you for your supporting words. I actually had this intention, to try to show her that I really understand her problem and behavior. That she is not alone, at least she is in my minds.

I also feel like she was an eye-opener for me. That I also need to change some things in my behavior, my life philosophy, my believing etc.

And because of this also

She wanted to continue our relationship, not with the same pace, maybe slowly again, not so intense but for me this is too intensive. Too hurtful. Too many mixed feelings. So I left everything as it is - distanced.

We both have our fights now. She is trying, besides therapy, inner work (stress management, emotion regulation, ... .) classes. Hope it helps her.  I would be lying if I say that I don't feel inner hope feeling, that maybe some day... .But I try not to think too intensive about this. It is not something that I can control now. I can control my actions and my healing. I cannot control if she is going to end up with someone today if she is going out.

The point regarding "increasing the pain" is the fact that "I have left again" in the sense of not continuing our r/s after this pause of NC. I know, we didn't start our r/s anyway so I couldn't leave if there is no formal start, but you know - BPD... . 

So it is a double-edged sword - I wanted to tell her that I understand now and that she is a good person, but then again I maybe increased/revoked her feelings toward me and then left again.

blackbirdsong,

That is a tough one to digest. Life is tough as it is, and to have that internal battle to contend with as well must be exhausting. Its easy to have compassion for someone who is trying so hard.

Staying or leaving is a deeply personal decision. I can see it was a hard one for you. Have you experienced that feeling before? Perhaps from the family where you grew up?

Do you think your recovery could happen if you were still in a relationship with her? I know I couldn't have.

Actually no, I believe I didn't. This is one of the most intensive emotional decisions in my life.

I don't consider that I had "bad family environment", nothing abusive or something like that, but there were things that induced my codependency traits.

 

My recovery? That is a tough question. Currently, something in me, my inner voice says that I need some time for myself. That it would be too turbulent to continue as it is now. Without learning new life-coping mechanisms  from my side, and also from her side.

On the other hand, now I see that she has many 'healthy' life views, despite BPD. Actually, I believe fighting BPD made her stronger is some areas of life perception. She thought me to live more in the moment, appreciate small things, to radically accept some things that I cannot control.

Sometimes I think that she has much more developed life coping mechanisms than me, than average 'non-BPD' person. And this fact actually attracts me even more to her, because I see great qualities in her, qualities that she built in order to fight with BPD. Qualities that is hard to find in people who didn't go through something similar, like she is more aware, knows how to appreciate things in life. Doesn't take them for granted. Until the BPD sometimes jumps in... .