The one up position?

[Depression = 72% of members]

My BPD bf absolutely has to remain in a one up position in our relationship in order to feel safe. If at any point the scales start to waver in my direction it triggers off his BPD behaviours. Trying to make me feel jealous and insecure which I presume is projection.

Now a year ago I was able to provide him quite clearly with top position as I was always telling him over and over how much I needed him etc. Displaying to him that I was panicked that he would leave me which in turn made him feel safe.

However since discovering BPD, I have tried to use every resource available to me to educate myself about the condition.  One of the side effects of this is that I have managed to remove myself emotionally from most situations and practice the tools I've learned.

My biggest dilemma now is that my bf feels incredibly unsafe by this behaviour. He desperately needs me to be the under dog.

My advice needed is... Does he really need me to be the under dog? Can a BPD relationship survive if they don't feel in the one up position?  Are there other methods I can use to allow him to feel powerful/on top in the relationship even though It's an illusion?

I do worry that he will end the relationship if he can't feel on top of it. Presently he is doing many things to trigger insecurity in me that I am not biting on. To add the behaviours are increasing not getting better!

[Lou12]

My BPD bf absolutely has to remain in a one up position in our relationship in order to feel safe. If at any point the scales start to waver in my direction it triggers off his BPD behaviours. Trying to make me feel jealous and insecure which I presume is projection.

Now a year ago I was able to provide him quite clearly with top position as I was always telling him over and over how much I needed him etc. Displaying to him that I was panicked that he would leave me which in turn made him feel safe.

However since discovering BPD, I have tried to use every resource available to me to educate myself about the condition.  One of the side effects of this is that I have managed to remove myself emotionally from most situations and practice the tools I've learned.

My biggest dilemma now is that my bf feels incredibly unsafe by this behaviour. He desperately needs me to be the under dog.

My advice needed is... Does he really need me to be the under dog? Can a BPD relationship survive if they don't feel in the one up position?  Are there other methods I can use to allow him to feel powerful/on top in the relationship even though It's an illusion?

I do worry that he will end the relationship if he can't feel on top of it. Presently he is doing many things to trigger insecurity in me that I am not biting on. To add the behaviours are increasing not getting better!

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[Moselle]

Lou12,

This is a tough situation. Well done for following through with removing yourself from emotionally destructive situations and for using the tools available.

In my opinion allowing him to be in the one up position with you can never help him and allowing the illusion is enabling behaviour which doesn't help him either.

Can he survive not being the one up? Yes

Is he showing any interest in improving or acknowledging his issues?

[Lou12]

Hi Moselle,

I suppose I was under the illusion that he needed that safety net of feeling in the up position in order to survive any relationship. I was quite happy for him to have that if it was what he needed. I know the truth that he is more vulnerable and needs a strong partner. I just didn't want to treat him as a walking mental illness and strip his masculinity.

I feel better when I have reassurance from ppl that I am heading in the right direction.

He has presently had his phone switched off for 2 days! The sad fact is I know he's doing it to send me into panic so he can feel on top again and safe. I want to reach out to him to reassure him he's safe but I know if I react I will have the same behaviour used against me in future. He's always watching for how I react.

Yes Moselle I believe I do see an improvement if ever so slightly. I feel the more he is able to trust me (very minutely) the more he wants to make an effort to change little things to please me. When he dysregulates then all this goes out the window but I wouldn't expect anything else with someone who can't control there everyday emotions let alone when they are heightened.

We are a work in progress, both of us. My aim is to establish some trust with each other. I am trying to establish that by being the adult in the relationship and showing him through actions how I believe a relationship should be.

But I am gathering now that the general consensus is that they really don't need to be in the one up position to survive a relationship? And in fact the more stabler and equal you are the less there BPD behaviours come into play?

[Moselle]

I suppose I was under the illusion that he needed that safety net of feeling in the up position in order to survive any relationship. I was quite happy for him to have that if it was what he needed. I know the truth that he is more vulnerable and needs a strong partner.

I hope you don't mind me asking but I'm curious about something.  What are your needs?

[Lou12]

Mmm good one. Well admittedly I'm obviously co dependant to be in this relationship in the first place.

My whole life I've always been in the position of the care role. I get my gratification through helping others. Now I am very much aware of how unhealthy this is. Quite honestly I am not sure I know any other way but I do have pretty strong boundaries on what I will accept and not accept. I have worked hard to call quits on relationships where people have no intention to improve themselves for the better.

I derive my happiness through inspiring people to be good to each other. To help each other and trying to be the change I want to see in the world.

Generally I am a happy person, a little BPD myself but minimally after much work. I partake in lots of activities that bring me joy. I adore my children and spend lots of time participating around there school life.

I suppose if I truly analyse myself my enjoyment stems through other people. I'm not sure what this makes me? I think I definitely have an element of love addiction and find that I enter into relationships with the non comital people and then strive to heal them.

That's truly coming from an honest place but I don't know how to be anything other than that because it's all I've ever been.

But I have to add I am not an unhappy person, I spend my life being optimistic and other than a few improvements I am generally happy with life.

[Moselle]

Wow. That was a really honest answer. The needs I've picked up are:

1. A need to help others. To caretake others.

2. A need for reassurance.

3. A need for boundaries ( this is a great form of self love)

3. Are there any more?

I was just wondering what you do for Lou?

It does relate to your topic on the one up position, because pwBPD will take everything you offer and stay one up. If we start to care for ourselves they usually don't like it that much because we might become independent thence they are no longer one up and we no longer need their drama. Just something to think about. I'm on this journey too btw.

[waverider]

Probably based on insecurity. Its more about the avoiding risk, and invalidation, of the perception of being underdog. Black and white thinking gives that he is either one or the other, Sharing status is a difficult concept.

Reducing this fear reduces the need and defensiveness in general. It is a gradual process. Try avoiding debate over it as that gives its existence credance

[Lou12]

Thanks guys, I am going to stick with not reacting to his upped behaviours.  I'm also thinking this could be an extinction burst with his behaviour purely based on the fact that I've changed mine?

Moselle, I have young children so unfortunately I don't get to do lots of things I want. However I am very fortunate, I do however get my self the gym a few times a week and do lots of socialising with friends.

[Jessica84]

Control is a big issue. Sometimes we're in control, sometimes they are, sometimes it's all an illusion. In my opinion, we're all the underdogs and BPD is the alpha!   Your bf may not like your changes initially, but don't let that discourage you. Change is hard for everyone. Takes time and patience. You found new ways to cope with his behaviors. Now it's on him to find new ways to cope with yours. May take him longer to adjust.

As for caretaking and people-pleasing? This is not always good for pwBPD. They seem to be either tragically dependent, or stubbornly independent.  I got the latter with my BPDbf.  He constantly unloaded problems on me, but refused any help. Most of his were self-inflicted, so the solutions seemed obvious: stop doing that!  Or he was only looking for validation, not a solution. I didn't know anything about BPD. I kept offering to do things for him or gave him advice. This either pushed him away or pushed him into hysteria! I offered and offered. He barked and barked. Finally, I stopped offering, he stopped barking. I had to learn to listen better, to ask questions that led him to his own solutions, to validate his answers, to disengage when necessary... .Very hard to do for a natural caretaker. But quite liberating! To just be there to support him - not to save, fix, change or heal him. Frees up a lot of time and energy too!