I need some advice. Going to try and discuss some issues tonight

[byfaith]

I am a man in conflict. I am not a quitter but the reality is in my gut that things will really not change much from where they are now. I stay depressed most of the time trying to fight out of the funk that I feel because I don't have what I need in our marriage to keep going. When there is an overwhelming feeling of loneliness in a marriage and you know it's not going to change then it's time to change directions.

The advice I need is this, how do respond to things she will say to me?

Such as when I let her know that I cannot go on in a marriage where sexual intimacy is denied and really any intimacy that is physical. I want to feel the emotion of love and connection when we kiss which is almost never etc. or flirting anything like that that which would lead to sexual intimacy. What is going to happen like it has before she will tell me to just go screw someone so I will be happy. Sex in and of itself will not make me happy the love that she doesn't seem to able to give me which leads to sexual intimacy is what hurts. Do I just walk away? I don't want to defend my position any longer. She has denied me for 3 years and I mentally can't take it anymore.

If I speak of other issues outside of this that bother me she just says stuff to me that makes me appear to sound petty. Her lack of self care is destroying her and therefore destroying out relationship. Her son who is 31 lives with us he suffers with a mental illness. Some of her behavior towards him at times I struggle with ( inappropriate in my opinion) I quit saying anything because she feels like its ok so I can't change that. We will both be laying on the bed and she will play footsies with him or run her foot on his thigh almost into his crotch. Things like that. I understand she want her son to feel a human touch from someone but it gets weird in my book.

In her mind I should be there for her emotionally at all times which I have been. I have given my wife the utmost respect and patience waiting to see if she will get real help for her problems. She has been to T's, she will not and totally refuses to go to MC.

her divorce from her last husband was 16 years ago and I still have to hear his name. He was husband number five.

Last note. If I was good with being glorified roommates we could keep going down this path.

She will say to me "so this is an ultimatum?"  All she will hear is that I am unhappy only because there is no sex.

My wife has no "normal" relationships really with anyone. There seems to be something wrong with everyone.

I don't think we will be able to reconcile on issues... .I am sad. I feel weird because I truly love her but I can't keep going like this feeling like an empty hole when it comes to our marriage. I don't feel like this about myself. I know I am a decent person.

I hope I can have this discussion with her tonight and things not fall to pieces.

   

[ArleighBurke]

Ouch. I can relate to your feelings. I've often thought of having this conversation with my wife as well, but i know that she'll only hear "more sex" - whereas I really want more "love and connection".

You already don't believe it'll make a difference. So why are you wanting the talk? Really, you can do nothing and stay unhappy, talk and possibly end the relationship, or not talk and end the relationship.

If you are unhappy and can't continue, then you can't lose by talking to her. But what do you expect of her? I know it's hard to define, but I think a partner would need specifics. However, can a BPD provide? Are you asking her for something that she can't (not wont - but can't) provide? 

Unfortunately living with a BPD will never be a normal relationship. It can't. And that sux. If you were in a non-BPD relationship, the chance your partner would change would be slim. In a BPD relationship, probably even worse.

It's a tough decision. And I understand that you want to try everything before leaving her, but you also need to be realistic about what the relationship can look like.

Sorry.

[Notwendy]

He was husband number five.



Does this mean you are husband number 6?

By Faith, I think you know that talking to her isn't going to solve anything, and that she may not respond in the way you would wish. I also don't think an ultimatum is a good approach, although you don't intend to do so.

IMHO, I would speak your truth, using I statements. This is about you, not her. He response is out of your control.

Your truth is that you are not happy in a marriage void of physical affection. This is understandable. You are human. There is nothing wrong with wanting physical affection. You are wired for it. In marriage, this means with your wife, but this isn't the case for you.

Once you have spoken your truth, then that's it. No JADEing or explaining why. It is what it is. Give her some time to think about it. Then, your next choice is up to you.

[byfaith]

yes I am number 6. I didn't understand a lot when we were married. I took a lot of what she told me at face value not understanding her emotional problems. Sometimes I feel stupid, I try not to beat myself up to bad over it

As far as the talk, that did not happen because of circumstances surrounding her son last night. I did not want to heap anything on to the stressed situation with him.

We did talk this morning and it went different than I thought it would. We actually embraced each other laying in bed this morning (fully clothed) the vibe I was getting from her was she was enjoying it (the closeness). This went on for about half an hour.

I laid on my back and was going to get out of bed to get ready for work but I decided to ask her a question. I asked if she would touch me and she said in a very nice reply let's talk about it this evening. She said that would be a good place to start. She said" I think it will help our relationship, don't you agree".

I am not holding my breath... .we shall see how this goes

IMHO, I would speak your truth, using I statements. This is about you, not her. He response is out of your control.

Your truth is that you are not happy in a marriage void of physical affection. This is understandable. You are human. There is nothing wrong with wanting physical affection. You are wired for it. In marriage, this means with your wife, but this isn't the case for you.

Once you have spoken your truth, then that's it. No JADEing or explaining why. It is what it is. Give her some time to think about it. Then, your next choice is up to you.

I totally agree with this and this is how I wanted to approach the situation and I will if it becomes necessary. This confirms what I was already thinking.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I would not lead with the sex issue. I think speaking your truth, and using I statements is good, but if you are thinking of staying, and working on this, I would open with another subject, then lead into some of the things you said here, how you want sex because it helps YOU feel connected(from all the books I've read, this is generally true of men). Women need the emotional connection to want sex, men need sex to feel emotionally connected. Sort of hilarious. It works out when both people make an effort to do both for the other.

Maybe the non sexual touching, and you just being there after her tough day yesterday made her more open to talking. BPDh and I have had many calm talks about the sex issue, but it never really gets better. He wants tons of sex, yet he doesn't understand that if he ignores me all day, or has an abusive meltdown, it's super hard for me to feel sexual.

Just remember that hearing what you say will mean she'll like it, or that even if she hears you that there will be any change. So many times, I've thought "he gets it, YAY!", but I think all he hears is "maybe I'll get more sex", and he forgets his part(connect emotionally during the day).

You are certainly in the same place the other five husband's have been. Not that that is consolation. Men have a right to sex in a marriage, and women have a right to feel connected... .

[byfaith]

Women need the emotional connection to want sex, men need sex to feel emotionally connected. Sort of hilarious. It works out when both people make an effort to do both for the other.

I have been there for my wife emotionally always for almost 5 years now, even through the 3 years of no sex, I mean none, nothing. She has sexual trauma from her past but it's time to get help (and she knows this) I have been there, been patient. I have fulfilled my loving responsibility as a husband. It's time for her to show me that she wants to fulfill some of my emotional needs in marriage. It isn't just sex. It's spending time with me doing somethings I enjoy because I have done the same for her without begrudging her, because I love her. But enough is enough. do you agree?

If you ever get a chance find the book "His needs, Her needs" by Willard Harley. Best book on marriage I have read, the book is about meeting each others emotional needs. The concept not so easy maybe in a marriage where an emotional disorder exists. I looked at your quote again and that is what the book discusses and how to go about doing that exact thing making an effort to do both for the other

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, I think I have that book. You are in my situation, but you are on the opposite gender equation. I've given BPDh a lot of sex(some of it where he enjoys hurting me), and yet, I've gotten very little back from him emotionally, or on a "connection" level. It left me feeling like a piece of meat.

I want to have sex with him, but I refuse to do that if he doesn't even try to talk to me or connect with me for a few minutes during the day. I'm not trying to with hold, I'm just wanting him to see that one need feeds another, and that he was being incredibly selfish. He wants his needs met, but doesn't feel any obligation to meet an of mine.

BPDh knows my love language too, but gives zero effort on that from too. He can't plead ignorance. I know his love language, and try to meet it: Physical touch(including sex) is his first one, of course. I'm still very touchy with him, but the sex thing has taken a decline. It's not like it's been that long though, maybe a couple weeks since we've had sex. Heck, he complains still when we've had sex three times a weekend, or four times in one week. I think he may have a slight sexual addiction like his brother, or at least, tries to get too many of his needs met only through sex.

And yes, I do think you have every right to expect to not live a sex free marriage. I lived that for 19 years with my ex, and actually had to beg to get pregnant. It was not a fun way to live, feeling like room mates, only he seemed to dislike me too.

I sure wish your wife was open to marriage therapy, because it would sure help to have someone neutral chime in on the sex issue, because I'm pretty sure you might meet with resistance from your wife during your talk.