I'm having another emotional flashback...

[Lifewriter16]

Hi All,

I've joined e-Harmony. I've been going through the motions, looking at men's profiles, what they want, their deal makers and deal breakers and am trying to message a fellow in London. And I feel so d*mned miserable. When I read of men saying that a poor relationship with family is a deal breaker for them and hear of the positivity they are looking for, I feel that I will never have a good relationship with a stable man because they're going to discount me before I even get to the starting blocks simply because I was too unfortunate to have a good start in life. I had no control over that. I had no choice in that. I have done everything I can to try to heal and to minimise the damage, but this ball and chain is going to follow me around forever. The rotten choice of man, could be my only choice. Yet, I can't do that any more. It causes me too much pain. I just want someone to love me... .even though I'm wounded.

Lifewriter x

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi Lifewriter,

I completely relate to this!  I was talking to a friend of mine and he is online dating.  I was giving him advice regarding who to date and not date.  Some gals were just obvious about having been abused or were in poor past relationships, just by their profile.  I told him to skip that one, as he was in a r/s with a pwuBPD, and does not want a repeat.  Well, it is safer avoiding clearly wounded ones.  (Even though not everyone wounded has BPD, I think obvious signs of wounds in a profile is likely not good... .but more ok with gradual disclosure)

Having said that I did see the irony in it.  That I have had a lot of past trauma and if I were to put all my relationship crap and FOO crap in black/white resume, well, it would look frightening and I would tell anyone to run.

So I am stuck here at this point in "pre dating" mode.  I cannot change that past.  I will not put it on a billboard, but I also won't hide it.  I wish I could get some bonus points for my resilience to counteract any neg they could feel and the focus be shifted to that, yet I also do not want any special credit for my past, so it is a bit confusing to myself. 

I just want the person to deal with the Sunflower person that is in front of them today.

Yet, at the same time, I will be wanting to know about their past and enough relationship info to figure out who they are... .today.

[eeks]

When I read of men saying that a poor relationship with family is a deal breaker for them and hear of the positivity they are looking for,

I am going to make an argument that this statement is not an emotionally mature or adequately informed thing for these men to say.  Please hear me out 

Yes, family/developmental trauma causes lasting impact on a person throughout their life, and it isn't something we choose.  However, for example therapist Jeff Brown (posts on facebook, you might be interested to follow him) says that for some people, cutting off contact with their FOO is the right choice, and those who say "but they're your family" or "they did their best" are misguided.  The courage and effort to heal FOO issues is worthy of respect, not the label of "damaged goods".   

And frankly, it's not fair, when someone like you is precisely in a position to become "earned secure" through a healthy adult relationship attachment.

In terms of emotional awareness, e.g. with respect to conflict and issues that might come up in emotional intimacy, if you asked me, who do I think is in a better position to handle that?  Someone who had an average, decent family upbringing, their relationship with their family is OK, but they haven't done any self-awareness work.  Or someone who had a dysfunctional family but has read the books, self-introspection, gone to therapy, practised communication skills, etc.?  I am tempted to say the latter, and here's why. 

"Survival personality" is like being in a box.  For those who had a "good enough" upbringing it's a relatively spacious, comfortable box, but a box nonetheless.  These people never have to think outside the box.  They could be functioning decently in life, but they are still in survival personality. 

However, for those of us with a dysfunctional upbringing... .(the box is too small, rotting, missing walls etc.) we are basically in a position where we have no choice but to demolish the box and build a new one.  That leads to immeasurable suffering, yet it also gives us an opportunity that most do not have (to build our own box as it suits us)

The other thing I've heard is that you have to watch out for online dating sites having a higher percentage of avoidantly attached people (because they tend to exit relationships more often). 

I don't know, the divorce rate, is it still 50%?  So it doesn't sound to me like it's the majority who received the magic touch of parental emotional attunement and thus have an innate savvy about relationships. 

[Lifewriter16]

The positive in all this is, that it is triggering the flashback which is allowing me to access emotions that I have previously been unable to access.

I can see the lounge in the house where we grew up. The detail includes the carpets and the piano. It harks back to the time when I was 5 and we had a group of 16 young people in their late teens staying with us as part of a missionary work camp. They sang songs around that piano. I can't access anything else yet but I know this image is both a photograph I have seen in a family album and a memory I have... .I did pray for God to open up the memory of those times because I still have a strong pull towards my old flame and he reminds me of one of the young men who stayed with us. The pull towards my old flame contains lot of sexual-type violence... .and that's pretty worrying. I want to heal this to make the break from him. At the moment, I am still connected and I want to change that... .

Lifewriter x

[Lifewriter16]

Hi eeks,

Thanks. Just taking some time to digest that. L x

[eeks]

Hi eeks,

Thanks. Just taking some time to digest that. L x

No problem.  Your flashback memory also seems important (you replied very shortly after I posted, so I didn't see it), those kinds of emotional connections can be insightful.  So don't let me interrupt that process.   

[valet]

Hey Lifewriter, why do you want someone to love you?

What about finding someone that you love independent of yourself?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi valet,

I mean, I want someone to return the love that I feel for them... .Lx

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey LW-

And I feel so d*mned miserable. When I read of men saying that a poor relationship with family is a deal breaker for them and hear of the positivity they are looking for, I feel that I will never have a good relationship with a stable man because they're going to discount me before I even get to the starting blocks simply because I was too unfortunate to have a good start in life.

Did you consider that the possibility that some dude says a poor relationship with family is a deal breaker is his family life sucked growing up and he ain't going back there?  And if he was all that put together why is he saying things like that on a dating sight instead of sitting around the fire sipping cocoa and telling stories with his beloved wife and kids?  He may be saying "Life sucks, I haven't healed, I need someone who grew up in a nice family to come save me", we just don't know... .

And notice what you did there: you read that and immediately labeled yourself defective and unlovable, which is just your inner critic run amok, and that's the good news really, we can use that.  What if you went online and read someone's ad, and when they list some traits you don't think you have and the inner critic starts to mouth off, tell it to shut up, and then look for other reasons whatever you're reading can mean.  Practice turning it around, over and over, no lack of lonely dudes out there so you won't run out of profiles, and it will be as fun as you make it.  And visualize your inner critic cowering in a corner crying while your inner child rises above, radiant and triumphant.  What if you did that right now and shared it with us?  It's just a repetition thing and a focus shift, and that inner critic can be subdued.  And it's great you realize you were having an emotional flashback, which is another great way to challenge your inner critic and can prevent you from going into self-bludgeoning mode.  It's just a flashback, it will pass, it's not me and I'm still here, safe and whole.

[Lifewriter16]

Thanks guys.

This is why I love this website so much - you help me to see what I can't see for myself. What a gift that is.

Love Lifewriter x

[valet]

Hi valet,

I mean, I want someone to return the love that I feel for them... .Lx

I get that.  

Your opening post says that you still feel you had no control over where you came from. That is true and valid. None of us had any say over who our families are, and most of us would certainly love to have come from different environments. The truth is, however, that we aren't. There is no going back in that sense. I'd definitely agree that this is something that has to be grieved, and it's ok to feel all of those associated feelings of abandonment or a lack of control. I struggle with the same things at different points in my life, daily and otherwise.

From my perspective it sounds like you're very focused on finding a partner, and by not having the cream of the crop be there right away it gives you a reason to ruminate on the reasons why you aren't finding this person. I feel that we need to challenge ourselves in new ways sometimes, and it seems to me that you are not challenging yourself.

I agree with fromheeltoheal. It may feel like you are unlovable and defected, but that is not reality. That is you taking away your own ability to choose what you want in life. And those feelings, they are signals that things need to change.

[doubleAries]

wow.

Just what I myself needed to be reading, and that is why I am replying to this post--I want to hear more of what some of you are saying here. I have had a profile up, off and on for about a year and a half, and have had several "meltdowns" (emotional flashbacks) connected to my attempts at online dating. My inner critic is more like an inner terrorist and rips me to shreds over being inherently unlovable and unlikable.

I also feel extremely frustrated about not being accepted because of my atrocious upbringing. 50 years of "shut up and go away" is weighing on me very heavily right now. It is easy for me to be persuaded that just because my inner (terrorist) critic is incredibly mean, doesn't mean it is wrong. And to also become depressed, thinking "what good has all the self work I have done do me when I cannot escape the "legacy" of a crappy upbringing? When I feel 'forced' to keep that past hidden as a shameful secret, because others just don't want to hear anything about it--even as they ask the questions you expect when getting to know someone that delve right into that place, where I must either lie or be rejected?"

And like you, lifewriter16, I also feel pulled back towards a former relationship (an EXTREMELY dysfunctional one!) and that sets my inner terrorist off an running as well.

I cannot even get to the point of a phone call with someone from online, let alone an actual date, and this makes me feel pretty horrible about myself and my worthiness.

[joeramabeme]

Hi Lifewriter16, great honesty about the inner feelings on this post.  Reading it reminded me of an identical situation I had while a member of Lunch Dates. 

I had met a number of women that I was not at all interested in.  And then, by far the most attractive, outgoing and interesting women I had an introduction with happened.  I thought, finally!  I met someone I can click with.  About 1 hour into the date she said something like; "I would never marry a man who didn't come from a stable home because he is likely to carry those problems into a marriage".  My heart sunk.  I was crushed.  So much so that I decided not to call her back even though she said she would like date #2.  She even went as far as leaving me a voice message and telling the agency that she did not understand why I did not call back.

Before I met my wife, I was at a place where I felt so sick and tired of hiding my dark family secrets - not just from dates but from everyone.  So, I started on a campaign of being more open.  Not spilling my guts, but not being ashamed of my truth or embarrassed to say it.  So when people started telling family stories that made me shiver with envy and fear of being exposed, I decided to be tactfully open about my lack of family and some areas that I struggled with.  Sometimes people were surprised and sometimes they joined right in with their own stories. 

In short, this approach tended to draw in people that I could have better and more open relationships with and that was usually the type of person that felt comfortable enough with themselves such that my story wasn't threatening to them or they themselves shared a similar experience. 

The level and depth of my r/s' improved a lot during this "experimentation" phase of my life. 

I still get a little queasy today about opening up to people, but truthfully - I found that most everyone else is also scared.  If this guy is so squeaky clean that he needs Miss-lived-a-perfect-life, than I can assure you, you are not the right person for him. 

, so send him a breakup letter as your introduction telling him why you are dumping him!  All smiles while I say that - hope the dry humor brought a smile to you too.

[Grey Kitty]

I had met a number of women that I was not at all interested in.  And then, by far the most attractive, outgoing and interesting women I had an introduction with happened.  I thought, finally!  I met someone I can click with.  About 1 hour into the date she said something like; "I would never marry a man who didn't come from a stable home because he is likely to carry those problems into a marriage".  My heart sunk.  I was crushed.  So much so that I decided not to call her back even though she said she would like date #2.  She even went as far as leaving me a voice message and telling the agency that she did not understand why I did not call back.

My $.02 on this kind of thing, and similar things that Lifewriter16 has seen in online dating profiles is kinda from my perspective and at my age (pushing 50) Even if I date somebody enough younger to be questionable (say 30~35), I'm still looking at somebody who either spent a decade+ of adult life as a virgin and avoiding relationships one way or another (unlikely, and probably not healthy),  a widow who had a single beautiful/perfect relationship (even more unlikely), or somebody with a history of relationships that failed somehow. I'm going to assume that she either learned something from this, and wants to do better with me now... .or didn't learn, and probably won't if she's gone that long without doing it!

So yes, I've got history, and yes I made mistakes in it. And the same will apply to her.

I want somebody who can accept that, and is committed to doing better.

Somebody who blames her previous (or potential) partners for all that went wrong isn't going to do better with me... .no loss. You want somebody with more emotional maturity than that as a partner for yourself



Now, joeramabeme, in this very specific situation, (or even today if this happened within a week or so), I'd probably call her, and be vulnerable, and explain that what she said about coming from a stable home scared you off--because you couldn't call your upbringing perfect in any way, and you are committed to learning better tools than you were given as a child, you have had to work at that, and expect to still find a few subtle areas that will trip you up now and again.

You took this as a statement from her that you wouldn't be an acceptable partner for her, and perhaps she didn't intend it that way, and you are willing to reconsider.

In your case I'd probably also add that you aren't looking for her to dive into your childhood and try to fix things for you, so stories of your past like this aren't something you will be bringing up often unless they are relevant today.

(Example there: If you are NC with any toxic parents or siblings, that is relevant today, but not the gory details of WHY.)

The reason I'd suggest being vulnerable and sharing this with her it seems unfair to her to make that choice for her, especially since her history and definition of a "stable home" may vary wildly from yours. Or more likely she was burnt badly by this kind of thing with an ex... .and perhaps her ex had very different history issues than you do, and it will be less a concern.

Since you seemed really excited about this woman, it is worth giving her a bit more of a chance... .watching this closely to see if it is a real problem or a miss-communication, as things play out further.

[joeramabeme]

She even went as far as leaving me a voice message and telling the agency that she did not understand why I did not call back.

Since you seemed really excited about this woman, it is worth giving her a bit more of a chance... .watching this closely to see if it is a real problem or a miss-communication, as things play out further.

Thanks GK.  Actually, I was recalling a time from 15 years ago - I know that was not clear on my post - my bad - my mind assumes to many background details when I write so my messages are not always clear.

The "campaign of openness" I was referring to in my post was the result of being on this date when I finally reached a point where I did not want to feel like my past was to be hidden or ashamed of. 

Perhaps ironically - it was the openness that I practiced that lead me to meeting my now exuBPD wife.  Talk about "emotional flashbacks"!   

[Grey Kitty]

LOL, I guess it is too late to call her back then!

I think the perspective on such statements still applies anyhow, and even giving her a second chance might have been a reasonable idea.

[unicorn2014]

That's not really fair to adult children of alcoholics or dysfunctional families or narcissists. I personally would want to stay away from people who weren't open to the possibility that not everybody's family is healthy enough to have steady interaction.

[HurtinNW]

This hit a nerve with me because I've struggled with it.

It took a lot of work, but the last few years I've been more towards what joe talks about, which is openness. I've written publicly about my family, and that was huge for me. Before that I was where you are at: receiving these shaming messages that you aren't good enough if you have a hard past.

Here's my theory. There is an erroneous idea in our culture that people who have not experienced trauma are somehow better. They are "pure" and others are tainted. This is a result of our cultural fixation on virginity, purity and for us ladies especially, inexperience. There is also a class element. To be associated with a bad past is seen as lower class. We have this idea that certain experiences, like rape, mean someone is damaged forever.

I say phooey to that.

Yes, those experiences are really, really hard. I know, I've had them. But the truth is people all over this world have experienced trauma since life began. People have survived concentration camps. Civil wars. Slavery. Losing most their kids to illness we now have vaccines for. For most of our history this was simply part of life. This idea one can somehow live a trauma free life is a new invention, and a false one at that. Everyone has trauma. There isn't a way to qualify how one person feels about one thing to another. I have friends who were traumatized by their parent's divorce. Others not. Interestingly, the people I know who claim they come from great families are often some of the most messed up. Sometimes this is a defensive posture for people to hide their own fears.

When those men say they only want a woman with a certain kind of past they are not asking for someone who is emotionally healthy, honest or working on themselves. They are asking for a lineage. They are confusing lack of experience with someone who will be pure and easy, and we all know how that isn't true!

Also, by a certain age, do we really want to date someone who has not taken any risks, who has not had loss, who has not made hard decisions to cut nasty relatives out of their life?

I'd look at online dating as a situation where you will learn more about what you want and deserve. I never had any luck with it myself.

[Grey Kitty]

HurtinNW, I agree with you.

Your present life and your future are not defined by your past traumas (although they are influenced by your past).

And you are worth being in a relationship with somebody who doesn't define you based on your past traumas. (Anyone who does this to you IS the problem, not you!)

I grew up in a healthy and privileged environment without that kind of trauma you speak of. I've had very real trauma in my (ended but for the paperworks/etc.) marriage. I'm in my late 40s. I've got a kinda wide range of what I'd consider "age appropriate" dating, but cannot imagine more than a hookup/fling with anybody under 30, and more than a decade older or younger would add real challenges to a relationship. I know that any single woman past 30 will have had issues, history, relationship(s), etc. That's OK, I do too. (And if she hadn't, that is probably a bigger red flag. 40-year-old virgins are gonna have issues!)

I don't want a woman who defines herself based on her past traumas, and is stuck being a victim.

I don't want a woman who is in denial that she has any issues, while she lives her life running away from them all and doesn't see it.

What I want is a woman who is ready to live life going forward with me. I'm sure I'll see echos back to prior stuff eventually, and I can handle that. I'll certainly ask for her support when some of mine come back too.