Getting help?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

The last three days have been beyond horrible. One of which was my birthday, but what does that matter to BPDh. I'm started to again fear him. Things have been somewhat better since we reconciled, although as usual the holidays were hard(we are talking from end of October to Now).

All three days, he twists something innocent I say, no clarification makes it better for him. He just gets in a rage, and stays there. His face changes, and yesterday he tried to kick me out of the car. I refused to get out, and tried to calm the situation. I apologized(and I know I shouldn't have, and it didn't make any difference), but he was still enraged for the rest of the day. In fact, I'm not sure he hasn't been fully enraged for all three days.

I thought he'd left me and my kids at the mall last night, and when I asked if he was still in the parking lot, he accused me of comparing him to my ex? My EX was NOT EVEN MENTIONED? Where is he getting this stuff? He's acting very, very erratic and crazy. He drank way too much at the hibachi place, and I said I'd drive. I was shocked he let me, but he kept yelling at me about how to drive, and he once told me to pull out, when someone was coming at me head on. I had to stop! If I'd just pulled out when he told me to, we'd have been hit, yet he said I scared him! I hadn't even moved the car! I just hadn't pulled out when he yelled at me to.

He's in DBT and he sees a psychiatrist, but he's taken such a sharp, sudden turn for the worse. I'm really worried about him. I truly think he needs to be inpatient care for a bit. I know he's not going to be honest with his DBT therapist about this, or with his psychiatrist. I told him I'm not judging him, but I'm scared for him, and us.

I'm on the staying board, and don't want to leave, but this recent anger has me questioning, and wondering if I'm even safe around him. He isn't acting like he's thinking right. It's almost like delusions, and I fear he might have some sort of psychotic break or something. I'm worn down too, and feel like I could almost go to the stress unit, because I'm scared of his reactions, tired of having someone mad at me all the time, and I'm tired of all this stress. I feel I could have a good two days minus drama, and I'd feel fine again, unlike BPDh.

I would not be shocked at all if he had an incident of road rage and killed someone. Last night, he insisted on driving after he said I "scared him", but I wasn't even moving the car? I didn't take his suggestion, that would have totaled his car, but HE was scared? I was scared at the crazy way he's been raging for days, and that he insisted on driving us all when I feel he was drunk. I really wish we'd have gotten pulled over, and they'd given him a breathalizer test.

He's just acting out in so many ways these last few days. Then, after days of this, he wanted sex last night, and I just couldn't. I used to do it, just to try to appease him, but he'd get mad during or after sex, so I stopped doing it on demand. Plus, he likes to hurt me during sex, quite often(but not every time), so no thank you.

I know only he can change him, and I can't rescue him, but what can I do to help, or to protect myself? I know I'm going to drive separate next time unless he vows to limit his drinking to a couple drinks. He drinks Long Islands, and then he drank TONS of Saki because the hibachi guy kept shooting in it his mouth. The other group at the table had a designated driver, and I don't drink EVER.

I'm scared, and I really am doing my best to get off the triangle, and not rescue, but I do really feel he needs more help than he's getting. Things were not great, but they were nothing like this.

Please give me some ideas, and things I can do, because I don't like this fear of him, and his rage is like a palpable thing. And it's like he's almost hearing and seeing things that did not happen. I just don't know what to do. If I could get him a psych eval, I would. Although I fear he could turn this off, and fool them temporarily, which is what makes it so scary... .

Fearful today.

[Ceruleanblue]

The last three days have been beyond horrible. One of which was my birthday, but what does that matter to BPDh. I'm started to again fear him. Things have been somewhat better since we reconciled, although as usual the holidays were hard(we are talking from end of October to Now).

All three days, he twists something innocent I say, no clarification makes it better for him. He just gets in a rage, and stays there. His face changes, and yesterday he tried to kick me out of the car. I refused to get out, and tried to calm the situation. I apologized(and I know I shouldn't have, and it didn't make any difference), but he was still enraged for the rest of the day. In fact, I'm not sure he hasn't been fully enraged for all three days.

I thought he'd left me and my kids at the mall last night, and when I asked if he was still in the parking lot, he accused me of comparing him to my ex? My EX was NOT EVEN MENTIONED? Where is he getting this stuff? He's acting very, very erratic and crazy. He drank way too much at the hibachi place, and I said I'd drive. I was shocked he let me, but he kept yelling at me about how to drive, and he once told me to pull out, when someone was coming at me head on. I had to stop! If I'd just pulled out when he told me to, we'd have been hit, yet he said I scared him! I hadn't even moved the car! I just hadn't pulled out when he yelled at me to.

He's in DBT and he sees a psychiatrist, but he's taken such a sharp, sudden turn for the worse. I'm really worried about him. I truly think he needs to be inpatient care for a bit. I know he's not going to be honest with his DBT therapist about this, or with his psychiatrist. I told him I'm not judging him, but I'm scared for him, and us.

I'm on the staying board, and don't want to leave, but this recent anger has me questioning, and wondering if I'm even safe around him. He isn't acting like he's thinking right. It's almost like delusions, and I fear he might have some sort of psychotic break or something. I'm worn down too, and feel like I could almost go to the stress unit, because I'm scared of his reactions, tired of having someone mad at me all the time, and I'm tired of all this stress. I feel I could have a good two days minus drama, and I'd feel fine again, unlike BPDh.

I would not be shocked at all if he had an incident of road rage and killed someone. Last night, he insisted on driving after he said I "scared him", but I wasn't even moving the car? I didn't take his suggestion, that would have totaled his car, but HE was scared? I was scared at the crazy way he's been raging for days, and that he insisted on driving us all when I feel he was drunk. I really wish we'd have gotten pulled over, and they'd given him a breathalizer test.

He's just acting out in so many ways these last few days. Then, after days of this, he wanted sex last night, and I just couldn't. I used to do it, just to try to appease him, but he'd get mad during or after sex, so I stopped doing it on demand. Plus, he likes to hurt me during sex, quite often(but not every time), so no thank you.

I know only he can change him, and I can't rescue him, but what can I do to help, or to protect myself? I know I'm going to drive separate next time unless he vows to limit his drinking to a couple drinks. He drinks Long Islands, and then he drank TONS of Saki because the hibachi guy kept shooting in it his mouth. The other group at the table had a designated driver, and I don't drink EVER.

I'm scared, and I really am doing my best to get off the triangle, and not rescue, but I do really feel he needs more help than he's getting. Things were not great, but they were nothing like this.

Please give me some ideas, and things I can do, because I don't like this fear of him, and his rage is like a palpable thing. And it's like he's almost hearing and seeing things that did not happen. I just don't know what to do. If I could get him a psych eval, I would. Although I fear he could turn this off, and fool them temporarily, which is what makes it so scary... .

Fearful today.

[Ceruleanblue]

I think I'd even feel better if I knew what this behavior is? This is way beyond the usual blame and dysregulation. Has anyone else experienced this with their BPD partner? This is almost like he's delusional, and it's scaring me due to the amount of rage he's also displaying.

What IS THIS, and how do I deal with it since he's likely not going to seek help for this most recent scary behavior?

[Notwendy]

Good for you for not letting him drive or have sex with you.

However, you can take more steps to keep yourself safe and not protect him from his own behavior. Behavior has consequences. You know that.

Driving with him drunk and yelling at you isn't safe. He is an unreliable passenger- and he distracts you- much like texting and driving does, or any other distraction. You could have caused an accident heaven forbid.

There were other choices: Leave the car and take a cab. Send him in his own cab ( if he harasses the driver, then the driver will call the cops or kick him out. ). If you see him get in a car drunk, you call the police. He could kill someone.

If you think at any point that he is a danger to you, himself, or others, then it is up to you to call 911. He may be charming to the cops but blood alcohol levels don't lie.

He may end up in jail or a mental hospital but this is the place where he might get the help he needs if he gets that dangerous. Enabling him isn't helping him, or you.

IMHO, this isn't an easy thing to do for someone who is co-dependent and wants to protect a loved one from the consequences of their own behavior, but this kind of caring and protection might not be the most helpful. It isn't likely that he'd seek help or admit to being dangerous. This is up to you-- your call to do it.

In the past, when you've come here to vent, then things don't seem as bad to you. Maybe this is one of them. But your safety in a vehicle is concerning. The only person who can take steps to protect yourself is you. Your driving and your safety was compromised, and that isn't something to consider "not so bad". I get that you want to stay in this relationship, but for your own sake and the sake of others, please don't get in a moving car with it or let him drive when enraged and or drunk.  

[sweetheart]

CB I'm sorry you're fearful, that's horrible.

Your focus must be you and your wellbeing and that of your daughter if necessary.

This type of behaviour from your h is not new even though it has been dormant for a while. This abusive volatile behaviour is part of your relationship with him.

I'm sure there's a trigger for him somewhere,but that can't be your focus.

I'm going to give you a link about accessing support from a crisis centre for DV, www.respectmerules.com/DVgroup.html the link is about accessing support even when there is no actual violence. There will be support groups somewhere near you. Make contacting them for support part of your Safety Plan.



www.respectmerules.com/DVgroup.html

[empath]

Calling 911 would be a way to address the scary mental health symptoms - there is a psych hold for people who pose a danger to themselves or others.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, see, that is just it. He "let me" drive when we left the restaurant, but he tried to get me to pull out in front of someone. It wasn't just us in the car, it was also my two kids! And he insisted on driving home after the mall, but we were in there about an hour and a half. I have no idea how fast blood alcohol levels drop, but I'd have rather driven home.

I did talk to him tonight and tell him we are going to have to take separate cars if he can't stick to two drinks. We couldn't have afforded a cab ride home, we were over an hour away from home. There was no reason he couldn't have let me drive, I have a great driving record, and I clearly spared us from an accident, if I'd listened to him. I don't just pull out because someone tells me to. He has road rage, and he had an incident of that not long ago. He was pure evil to me after it happened, but later accepted responsibility, and said he knows it's not good to get that angry. How about how dangerous it is? It's like he doesn't even take that into consideration, and he scared me to death during his road rage incident.

I've thought about calling 911 when he's acting crazy rageful, but I'm sure that would be the end of us. He'd never forgive me. Plus, I'm sure he could charm the cops. When we were separated, he did come over once, and I called the police, and they called him up and warned him not to show up. He did anyway, and he also shouldered past the cop into the house. I didn't feel they did much to protect me, and they could see how aggressive he was. He was insisting I give him money, and the cops pretty much just told me to do it. This didn't leave me feeling they will do much next time.

I do think I have to be much more proactive about setting boundaries before we go out. I don't drink at all, and his desire to drive is a control issue. He knows it scares me if I feel he's had too much to drink, but he doesn't care that I'm stone cold sober, and he always feels he's okay to drive. He doesn't drink that much as a norm, but the few occasions it's happened, he just won't let me drive.

Plus, he's not actually being physical yet, and I hope he doesn't go there. I'd like him to get evaluated, but he was better today, so I'm sure he thinks it's all water under the bridge. It's not to me, because I saw an even scarier side to him that I don't ever want to see again. He needs more help than he is getting.

[Sunfl0wer]

This is great advice:

CB I'm sorry you're fearful, that's horrible.

Your focus must be you and your wellbeing and that of your daughter if necessary.

This type of behaviour from your h is not new even though it has been dormant for a while. This abusive volatile behaviour is part of your relationship with him.

I'm sure there's a trigger for him somewhere,but that can't be your focus.

I'm going to give you a link about accessing support from a crisis centre for DV, www.respectmerules.com/DVgroup.html the link is about accessing support even when there is no actual violence. There will be support groups somewhere near you. Make contacting them for support part of your Safety Plan.



www.respectmerules.com/DVgroup.html

CB, do you have a Safety Plan?

Are you interested in building a support network now? (Without violence occurring)

You can access resources and help without him having been physical.

[Notwendy]

I've thought about calling 911 when he's acting crazy rageful, but I'm sure that would be the end of us. He'd never forgive me.

Forgive me for being blunt about this, but I have noticed you mentioning that one of your biggest fears is that your H will threaten divorce.

That's a normal fear for many people, and understandably, a divorce is hard to go through.

But I wonder if you fear divorce more than you fear bodily harm from this man? Sure, he isn't physical directly with you, but does that make road raging while you are driving with him any less dangerous to you and your kids? What about the other drivers on the road? He "lets" you drive when he is drunk and then rages at you in the car. It isn't safe to drive with a drunk raging passenger.

So, you won't call 911 because you fear it will end your marriage? That is your choice CB- to fear divorce more than you fear injury ( heaven forbid)? Is your fear of his threats of divorce greater than the danger to your own children in that car and perhaps an innocent person on the road? IMHO so long as your fear of divorce is greater than your will of self preservation, it will be difficult to stand up for yourself with this man.

Keep in mind too that it is your choice to risk being harmed rather than have your H threaten divorce, but it isn't the choice of the other drivers on the road to put your marriage before their safety.

The bottom line is- whatever the fear is- actions that are fear based are co-dependent in nature and have that effect on relationships. You fear this man- and he knows it. He knows you fear his threat of leaving. He scares you with his rage and he scares you with his actions ( you mentioned he likes to scare you by not answering the phone). You mentioned he likes to hurt you.

Your posts are heartfelt, and then, when people give you advice, your reply is in the tone of " it isn't so bad" He isn't physical yet" Things aren't so bad, unless he threatens divorce and that is the one thing you seem to be willing to do whatever it takes to avoid.

Why should this man change? He has no reason to. He is getting what he likes. He likes to control people ( you have mentioned that) He likes to control you through fear, threats, rage, and pain. Do people stop doing what they like? Not usually.

IMHO, this isn't likely to change so long as he likes what he is doing and your fear of his threats of divorce inhibits your taking effective action.

I know this post is blunt, but your posts about your H are concerning because of the risk of harm to you and others and this is said with concern for your well being and that of others.

[sweetheart]

I was just coming to post CB, but Notwendy has beaten me to it with a post that highlights very succinctly why nothing has really changed or is going to change in the cycle of conflict and abuse between you and your husband.

Notwendy also highlighted that you often post in a state of heightened emotions because everything is so awful ( and I believe it is in that moment ) and get some really good support, feedback and guidance, and yet the core dysfunction between you and your h remains the same. I suspect that is why your posts are moved to Undecided because your relationship is not improving, the issues remain the same.

I too was terrified of my marriage ending, my h leaving me, but I wasn't willing to let him rage at me, or feel intimidated in my own home. Over an 18month period I called the police on my h six times. We didn't break up and it stopped the verbal abuse and raging dead in it's tracks. It really was that simple. It didn't stop the dysfunction or all the dysregulated behaviours, but it stopped the escalations to a point where I would feel scared.

The bottom line is, all the time you fear the relationship ending, if that is your one abiding stumbling block, then nothing is going to change. This is your emotional impasse.

Your h already knows this and doesn't have to change, why would he, he knows what you fear. He has nothing to loose. Your lack of boundary enforcement reinforces the bad behaviour and places all the power and control with him. That is a dangerous dynamic.

I would encourage you to read the link I posted and think about contacting a DV support group in your area. Like the link says, DV is not just about physical violence.

CB I understand your fear I really do and I understand your need to somewhat minimise your h's behaviour when all is calm. When things were calm again I was quick to relish any titbits of normalcy I could find.

Abuse is an insidious thing, even in the calm times I was aware that I felt uncomfortable because I was not looking after myself properly.

[Sunfl0wer]

I too was terrified of my marriage ending, my h leaving me, but I wasn't willing to let him rage at me, or feel intimidated in my own home. Over an 18month period I called the police on my h six times. We didn't break up and it stopped the verbal abuse and raging dead in it's tracks. It really was that simple.

I just want to pipe in... .

Calling 911 is not always simple and does not always put and end to abuse.  Thankfully this was helpful for sweetheart's situation.  However, it is not always the case. 

Calling 911, can often escalate things to be more dangerous.  This is why it is important to contact DV resources and have a Safety Plan.  They can guide you and help you come up with a plan for seeking help, calling 911, etc... .in the safest way possible.

Having a plan does not mean you have to do anything today, it does not mean you decided to leave, it does not mean the relationship is over... .it means you are taking a step to care for yourself.

A Safety Plan is in place before you need to use it so that executing your plan (when needed) is safest and seamless as possible.

Even if you are less concerned about your own well being... .It is not healthy even to your H or the relationship to allow abuse of any kind to continue.  Something needs to cause it to change course... .  Like you allude to... .him hitting you may be a way to change course... .or maybe not.

I am interested on your thoughts in creating a Safety Plan with trained DV counselors?

[Sunfl0wer]

Clarification:

I am not suggesting that one should NOT call 911.

I am suggesting that there are safer approaches to how a person calls.

Ex:

Calling while trapped in a car may be a dangerous option. 

Calling anonymously to report a drunk driver could be safer.  (I often call on drivers weaving in front of me changing and floating over three lanes clearly impaired)

Exiting the car, entering a store with lots of people and calling while next to a security guard may be safer.

However, then the aftermath may be dangerous.  Hence the point of a Safety Plan.

Also, I am suggesting that 911 is one tool of several that may be provided as part of a Safety Plan.

[Notwendy]

This is true. One of the most dangerous times is when the DV victim tries to leave or is perceived as trying to leave or when the person reported is being exposed. This is when they can be triggered into a serious rage.

A safety plan involves finding a way to protect yourself that works best for you. By talking to a DV counselor, you can decide on your best options. This doesn't mean you will definitely use them ,but that you know what they are if you ever need them.

[Notwendy]

I also want to say something about fear and co-dependency. Co dependents are driven by fear, fear of losing a relationship with a loved one. Now this is something probably a lot of people fear. Nobody wants a partner to leave them. It hurts. However, emotionally healthy people are not driven by this fear- they can keep it in balance. Yes, it would hurt, and take a long time to get over it, but they also don't make it the basis for their actions.

While it may appear that a co-dependent is just being nice and supportive, the motive is fear and this makes the act of kindness selfish and self seeking. In this case, it isn't something being done for the other person. Even if the co-dependent truly believes that they are being kind and selfless, if the action is fear based, the person on the receiving end of the action does not perceive it as being selfless. If they have good boundaries, the action feels icky, smothering, and controlling. While the co-dependent may expect that their act of kindness is received with gratitude, the response may be the opposite- the person who feels icky and smothered can get angry.

There are many ways to adopt a co-dependent behavior pattern. It does not have to be because of a bad childhood. In fact, some families appear loving to children, but there is a co-dependent family pattern behind the scenes. Children can still grow up believing that this is the normal way to be nice to others. A person may not even address being co-dependent unless it causes relationship issues.

This is not likely the only cause of your H's behavior, but it can play into it.

I mention this because I can relate to it. I have had to work on co-dependency. There was a time when it seemed I was being the nicest, selfless, caring, person on the planet and people around me kept on getting angry at me. I had no idea why. It wasn't until I paid attention to how it feels to be on the receiving end of a co-dependent's behavior that I saw that it doesn't feel like someone is being nice to me. It feels icky.

It was only when I saw that the motive for my being nice to people was out of fear that they would not like me or be mad at me that I saw that this was not being selfless.

[Ceruleanblue]

There were about six to eight months where BPDh did not threaten divorce, and things were feeling more stable to me. Then, it started back up again.

I fear our marriage ending for a lot of reasons: I'm stubborn when it comes to finding a way to make things work(even if it's just MY part of the equation), I believe people divorce way too easily these days, I don't want to start over, and I know I'll feel like a quitter. I'll feel like I let this man "beat me" at this game he's playing with my head and my heart. It sort of feels like he could help a lot of this, but he just chooses not to. PLUS, I know my fears are not unfounded, as he did leave me last year. It wasn't as wonderful as he thought it would be, and he was no happier without me(shocker). I on the other hand, did okay, which is hard for me to understand why I'm so afraid of it ending, other than I just don't want it to.

I DO NOT actually ever feel that I minimize the events after the fact. I just try to always remember the good in him, even when things are bad. I try to stay fair and balanced, and to stay centered myself(not that I always do). In fact, I think something, after the "event" or bad days in a row are over, and I reflect, I see it was worse than I'd thought while in the moment.

I'm appalled and disappointed that he insisted on driving us all home, even if he'd had an hour or so for the alcohol level to drop. It was safer, smarter, and I feel he endangered us and others on the road. This certainly does not look smarter or better in hindsight, and I can't possibly minimize it.

The only time I ever called police was the time he'd called me to say he was coming, and we were separated. I don't call now because I do in fact know he'd end the marriage over that. I can't imagine he wouldn't, because it's just sort of his MO.

I know that I have to get over my fear of this threats. It allows him to have control, that he just shouldn't have. I have set some boundaries this year, and I've upheld them pretty well, but this threat thing is my achilles heel, and yes, he does know it.

I don't actually know if he'd feel bad if I left him, other than that it would hurt his PRIDE. He'd definitely want to be the one doing the leaving(like last year), and the one calling the shots. He's still incredibly angry that his ex dared cheat and leave him. Most guys would have gotten over that is six years time?

I've already set a boundary about the drunk driving thing. I know I can stick to it, and if he doesn't, I just may have to call 911. Would the cop or 911 officer tell him that it was ME that called? That would be my only worry. I'm just hoping he doesn't cross my boundary: keep it to two drinks, or we drive separate cars(meaning he'll have to agree to the two drink limit before we leave). It's just weird because sometimes he doesn't drink at all, and I don't feel he has a drinking problem. This is just another control issue.

I'm going to try to see my therapist tomorrow before we have MC(same therapist). I'd rather not bring this issue up in MC, but maybe I should? I was just hoping to keep MC on positive things like learning to communicate, and not a he/said she said thing like the other times we tried MC.

I'm trying to get unstuck over this "threat" issue, even if it doesn't seem that way. And I'm still greatly concerned as to why BPDh seemed to lose touch with reality for three days straight?

What causes this, and could it be he's dealing with something much more severe than BPD/NPD? His erratic behaviors did not seem to reflect any behaviors I've read common to BPD... .

[Turkish]

CB,

If you were to step back from this (and I understand that this is tough), what's your number one priority here? That is, stepping back and looking at this like if you were viewing a friend in the same situation, say?

T.

[sweetheart]

MC is exactly the right space to be discussing these difficult, scary issues. MC is the place to safely explore what is happening in your marriage at the moment.

Consider taking some of what's happened there today. Are you worried that it may trigger your h again now that things are calmer?

Can you explain in what way your h "seemed to loose touch with reality"?

Just to say you can contact the police anonymously if you need to report your h for drink driving, and they would also keep your name confidential if you asked them to.

[Notwendy]

From your posts, it seems that your H likes to hurt his intimate partner. If this is the case, then for him to get to do this activity, he has to have someone to do this with. So long as he gets to do this, without consequences that are at least as tough as the behavior he enjoys, why would he not continue to do something that gives him satisfaction.

It takes two to do this. The hurting partner is part of this interaction as well. This appears to be the harder part to figure out. But this is a pattern that takes two to participate.

This is a tough thing to understand and to change. In some situation, this is the pattern that works for the couple, even if it causes pain to one of them. If your T doesn't know the whole picture, then the T doesn't have the information needed to help you.

[Cat Familiar]

Ceruleanblue,

I've been following your posts for a long time and I find myself scratching my head, wondering what makes you choose to stay. I've read that your first husband was abusive, but in retrospect, not as bad as the current one. I also remember your Christian beliefs and desire not to end your marriage due to them. In your recent post you question why you're afraid to leave and the memory that you did fine by yourself when he left you a year ago.

But, after reading so much about your husband, I cannot recall a single nice quality that you've mentioned about him. Apparently he was quite different prior to marriage, but since then it seems you've been dealing with very serious issues with him on a continual basis.

Since this is the Undecided board, I hope I'm not being inappropriate by asking just exactly what compels you to stay, other than not being a "quitter' and having to start over? Is this relationship one that you want to hold onto for the next forty years? Are you still harboring hope that your husband will change back to the man you originally fell in love with?

Cat

[empath]

I'm just hoping he doesn't cross my boundary: keep it to two drinks, or we drive separate cars(meaning he'll have to agree to the two drink limit before we leave).

My concern about this boundary is that he could choose to agree beforehand but not follow through in the moment which would leave you without a way to enforce the boundary.

About the divorce threats, my h will come out with the divorce thing (or separation, in the last conversation) off and on if I am asserting a boundary or something. He isn't really bothered by his bringing it out, but when I laid out the truth -- if he continues to be abusive, I cannot stay married to him because it harms me -- he was deeply disturbed. The way I've had to think about it is that if he decides to leave, it is him making a free choice to do it; it is not my 'fault' or responsibility to keep him from doing it. That would be trying to control him. As long as the threat of divorce makes you feel like you have failed, it will be something that can be used against you.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm just hoping he doesn't cross my boundary: keep it to two drinks, or we drive separate cars(meaning he'll have to agree to the two drink limit before we leave).

My concern about this boundary is that he could choose to agree beforehand but not follow through in the moment which would leave you without a way to enforce the boundary.

Good point.  

You need a plan that does not depend on his behavior in any way.  Actually trying to restrict him may even trigger/entice him to 'misbehave.'

How about:

 I will only go places with him that I am willing to take a cab home from in case he has more than two drinks.  If he does not agree for me to drive, I will simply enforce my safety boundary by taking a cab.

What do you think?

Edit: Or simply take two cars to begin with stating that you don't want to hold him back if you get too tired unexpectedly or such.  Maybe taking two cars from the start appears less like escalating... .or escalating can happen at home vs public or trapped in car... .but be sure you are closer to door if you need to leave fast.

[Fian]

From my perspective, you doing something he doesn't like, and him choosing to divorce you, is not YOU choosing divorce.  He made the choice.  If you try to manage his actions so he chooses to not divorce you, then you are giving him incredible power.  Basically he can force your compliance in all things with that threat.

In my opinion, it is better to set your boundaries, and if he chooses divorce, then that is his choice, not yours.  He knows that separation wasn't good for him the last time he tried it, so you may find out that when you do cross his "boundary" that he may opt to not divorce.

[Ceruleanblue]

CatFamiliar:

I guess I don't ever list the good qualities BPDh has, so here they are: He can be easygoing about some things. He doesn't tend to get angry when he works on things(which is weird because so many other things make him angry). He is a good Dad, even if he's made some mistakes. He's still fun to be with at times. He's been super loving and accepting to ONE of my kids. He is a good provider. He seems to find me very attractive. He's trying to work on his behaviors, to some extent. Also, we do have times when things seem better than they are now.

I do not think he'll ever go back to the guy he presented himself as, and I'm no longer angry about that. I know why he put on the facade. It wasn't very fair, but I'm sure he didn't really sit around and think about that, he just liked me, and knew if he showed me the "real him", I'd have run. I did, after all, talk a lot about healthy behaviors, the therapy I'd been through, and that I never again wanted to be with an angry man, or an abusive man. Back then, my boundaries were high, but he didn't push them either. He became what I wanted like a chameleon.

Fian:

Yes, if he chooses to leave, then that is his choice. I can't or won't limit his choices. I'd like him to want to stay, and work his issues in the marriage, so he doesn't keep repeating, and recycling with others, but that choice is his. He does seem to have the mentality at times of giving up, and someone else might be easier... .. Our MC pointed out to him tonight that he is a common denominator in his first marriage and ours. I tried hard not to bring baggage into this marriage from the past one, but I do now have baggage from BPDh's and my past, as our MC pointed out. And I totally agree with you that my fear of divorce gives him way too much power, and the feeling of power. I'm really trying to work on that. I do remind myself that I did okay last time he walked out.

Sunflower:

I think we likely do need to take two vehicles. I may discuss it with him again first, because this drinking too much then driving has only happened infrequently. I just don't want it to happen at all. I wonder if I insist on driving two cars, he'll gripe about the extra gas cost, and he'll see it as me not trusting him. I guess I can't afford the luxury of caring so much about what he's feeling, when I feel he put our lives(and others) in jeopardy. He didn't seem drunk, but I know from how much he drank, that he had to be. I guess the first time he crosses the boundary, I'll just call a cab, or if it's too far for a cab, I'll choose to take my own car.

[Notwendy]

The dilemma with difficult relationships is that, people do have their wonderful side. Most people do. I sometimes wonder if we form images of people growing up from the movies- of good guys and bad guys. The good guys are always handsome, amazing. The bad guys- these mean, scruffy, nasty characters.

Then, we meet someone who looks and acts great with another side that we can't see as clearly.

This is real life: One of my acquaintances is a narcissist who moves from woman to woman with the same pattern ( his choice, he doesn't seem to want to be in a permanent relationship) . Sweeps her off her feet, makes her believe she is the one.  then becomes controlling and abusive. My friend was in a relationship with him and when it ended, she told me about it. Since I never knew him in the context of a romantic relationship, I didn't see this side of him. With me, he was nice and respectful- but our interactions were strictly professional- no flirting or interest whatsoever. I would have not seen this either, unless we had gotten into a relationship.

I think that it is common for people with PD's to have great qualities in addition to troublesome ones, and a reason relationships are such a dilemma. If a person was all bad, then we'd not be interested. But I believe most people are both. It's the total package that makes these decisions difficult.

[Cat Familiar]

CB, I'm glad your husband has some admirable qualities. From my experience, it's so easy to get stuck in an abusive and dysfunctional relationship. I endured my first marriage far too many years, just going along day to day, trying to cope with the crisis du jour. It seemed that anytime things were going smoothly, my husband had to create some huge trauma that needed all my attention. It was exhausting.

I wish that someone would have asked me what I was getting out of the relationship. In retrospect, I realize the only thing I could honestly say would be grey hairs. I was worried about how I would manage on my own and when I did end the marriage, I never, not even for a moment, regretted my decision. Other than dealing with an ugly divorce, my stress melted away and I felt so free. Of course, then I cluttered my life up with a boyfriend who was most likely BPD, but at the same time was an incredibly nice person. I was wary enough to keep my distance for several years, yet I really enjoyed his companionship.

Then, when I felt really strong and self sufficient, a man who I'd known as a friend years ago came into my life again and swept me off my feet. We had several idyllic years together before the BPD reared its head. Even so, he's a great guy. I didn't realize how much he abused alcohol at the beginning, and that became a serous rift between us. In recent weeks, due to a hypertension diagnosis, he's had to cut back drastically and I'm finding the wonderful guy I fell in love with is returning on a more regular basis.

CB, thanks for answering my question. I've been worried about you based upon your posts. I've seen a lot of parallels to me in my first marriage: putting up with sexual abuse, being the recipient of angry tirades. I was strong and determined and believed that if I just loved my husband enough, I could turn our relationship into a mutually respectful one. That wasn't possible and I'm so grateful I finally let go of that desire.

[Ceruleanblue]

I've seen a lot of parallels to me in my first marriage: putting up with sexual abuse, being the recipient of angry tirades. I was strong and determined and believed that if I just loved my husband enough, I could turn our relationship into a mutually respectful one. That wasn't possible and I'm so grateful I finally let go of that desire.

I too had a not so great first marriage, but it was not really comparable to this one. My first husband of 19 years had anger issues, but he likely wasn't personality disordered.

I have no delusions that if I "just love my husband enough", that he'll get better. I only think I can work on me, and maybe that will have some effect on the marriage, but if he wants to make changes, that has to come from him. I didn't get the man I thought I was marrying, that is for sure, but I do know that people can change if they want to. Lots of times they have to hit rock bottom, whatever that is for them. Or as my therapist said, they lose enough relationships, and usually for men, they lose enough jobs, or it effects their livelihood.

And I do agree that people are a mixed bag. Not all good, nor all bad. I try not to let my OCD, nor BPDh's BPD/NPD(or whatever the heck it is) define how I see him, although it might seem like it from some of my posts on here.

I do see glimpses of the man he pretended to be when we dated, but I know that man wasn't really real, or at least couldn't be maintained. I often wonder how he maintained that as long as he did, and wish he could go back to "just faking" or "white knuckling it" or whatever he was doing.

I have seen way more effort this year than any time in the past, and I'm really doing all I can too. I love my therapist I have now, and I have a really supportive family. I'm really lucky in that.