It doesn't get any better, but it is definitely getting worse.

[Howitbegins]

I've been with my wife 28 years. 23 Married. Until 2 years ago when my older sister opened my yes to my wife's behavior with, "You know you married our mother?" I was blinded by our relationship dynamic. Then I was told by another that she was Narcissistic. Then a counselor told me she was Borderline. I read and read until I understood. What I understood was that every relationship I ever had was exactly like this. Every woman eventually destroyed me. I started making changes by bettering myself emotionally. No more being her emotional puppet. No more with believing everything she said about me on a complete failure level. I got to the point where I had inner peace and an outer shield that she rarely penetrated. It felt good.

That's where it all went to hell! She pulled out all the arsenal she could and started using it against me. Family, friends, even our boys. I saw her lay down and throw a 3 year old tantrum. Breaking things, scream and yell, sabotage payments, email accounts, and bank accounts. My business has suffered in one year by 50% of what I normally earn. GPS track me. Check all my calls and text messages. I've lost friends and most of all I'm losing myself. It's to hard to keep up with this negative behavior. And I've seen her accountability for actions that I prove to her go from denial to delusional. If a recording is played back she goes absolutely insane with belligerent crying on the verge of throwing up. She CANNOT hear proof of her behavior. The cyclic behavior is now predictable and the crazymaking and gaslighting no longer affects me. Well, not in the way that I doubt myself. But that coupled with blackmail, threats, insults, comparisons to other men (including her father and brother), is just draining me. It's like watching a soap opera for many years. Characters may change, but the scenarios are all too predictable. You know whats coming next.

I have 3 boys, one is already out in college. But the other 2 want to be done with this and stay with me. When I had the money earlier this year to leave I fell for the victim role she put out. Once the money was gone she switched gears and went to the aggressive behavior of blackmail and threats. My boys are looking at me for the example of manhood. I fear I am failing.

I'm so tired. I workout and eat right, sleep enough and yet I'm running on empty. I'm not looking forward to the next level of chaos that separation or even divorce is going to create. I'm a grown man and yet feel so emasculated around her. Only her, no one else. I want peace and balance back in my life.  I lost myself years ago. But I don't know that I really ever knew myself. I know I have some core trauma to work on from childhood and probably from this marriage.

I would like to someone to tell me that there is hope for her. But nothing I read says there is unless she really initiates the help for herself. And that never happens without underlying motives. Way to many years in therapy with her to believe otherwise.

I still love her. Why, I don't know. My codependent nature? Self-esteem issues? To tired to even see possibility of hope for independence and autonomy? It feels like the more I read, the more I understand, the less I know.

Any input would be great.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

 

I feel your hopelessness, i went through most of this as so did many here.

Good thing is you saw your decline and worked on you. That is a good start.

This creates a bigger chasm between what is going on in here head and what you now believe is right for you. She sees your changes as abandonment and goes into fight mode to bring you back into her world. While you both live in chaos it normalizes it.

The change in you is now irreversible, you are simply not going back there. This brings on a prolonged extinction burst.

The options now are reducing this as perceived threat to her and hence lowering conflict and maybe encouraging her to tag along with a better view to life. This will be long, and difficult, with no guarantees of success. the alternative is the RS ending and moving on yourself.

Only you can work that out. Often time spent on improving can pay off to help you whether the RS succeeds or not.

Which aspects are causing the biggest issue at the moment?

Waverider

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Howitbegins 

I'm glad you've found your way here. It's a good place to start to build up towards something better.

I hear that you're exhausted, it sounds like you've been through a lot. We are so many here who understand how you feel.

She CANNOT hear proof of her behavior

I, and many members here, have been down that road, of wanting to prove, to use logic, to make our partner see the light. It leads nowhere   But there are other things you can do, without any co-operation from her, that will help you and your relationship. There's information on the right side of the screen ----------> called the Lessons. They are to help us on this road towards healthier us, better lives and better relationships. It you don't know where to start, or feel overwhelmed by all the info, I recommend this article:

The Do's and Don'ts for a BP relationship

Take your time, we're here whenever you need to talk, vent or ask questions. You're already asking yourself a lot of questions and slowly working through that will help you.

I see Waverider has given you some things to think about already, so I just wanted to ask you if you have a support group around you that you can talk to? Like your sister? A friend? A therapist? A pastor?

[Howitbegins]

What aspects are the biggest issues at the moment?

With her I would say it's the constant threats that will not only hurt me but our sons as well. When I don't respond to her manipulation and make her stay on topic target rather than her going off in cognitive distortion it lands me with an impulsive threat that will hurt the family. She knows this is a weakness. My boys do not deserve this and I am having to protect them from this. But I'm the shield and she knows this, She knows regardless I will never just let the harm occur. But maybe it's just empty threats because she hasn't followed through. But maybe that's my next step in detaching myself by just moving aside and telling her feel free to do as she wishes. She knows her boys are watching. I really don't think she actually cares.

The aspect on my part is that I do love her. I would really like for this to work. We have been to countless therapists and seminars and I realized in therapy there were 3 people in the room all focused on fixing me. As far as seminars, some really expensive and really good ones. I learned alot and walked away with tools that I apply. Her tools are still shrink wrapped. Although I do love her I intelligently know that the brick wall has been stained with my blood from my skull in many layers. I'm tired of the insanity. I really think that my abandonment issues are the only thing stopping me, I had a childhood filled with foster homes, homelessness, drugs, abuse, and stepfather after stepfather.

I really want to know what it feels like to experience independence and autonomy.

[waverider]

Do you find yourself wanting to force closure on a topic, hence once she goes "off topic" you try to drag her back onto topic, this then corners her so she turns and fights with desperation using threats and abuse?

pwBPD have strong "fight or flight" instincts. cornering a pwBPD always ends badly, a bit like a dog chasing a cat.

Most people get the best results by just disengaging when their pwBPD stops "co-operating" and goes off topic, rather than attempting to chase them down rabbit holes.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi again, glad to see you're coming back to respond  

The threats about hurting you and your sons sound scary. My dUBDh (diagnosed borderline personality disorder husband) has threaten me a lot, too. He doesn't do it anymore. For a while, I had a go-bag in the hall closet, money stashed in the car and a safe place to go sleep for the night if needed. It's exhausting.

One of the things we talk about here all the time is boundaries. What are they, how do we decide what should be our boundaries and how do we execute them. You'll see when you've read some of the other threads. Whenever you feel like it, don't hesitate to jump in a start a new topic/thread about one boundary you would like to work on. There are many experienced members here to coach you.

Anyway, good to see you here.

[Howitbegins]

Waverider, I'm starting to walk away from the redundant frustrating conversation. I just sleep on the couch. Or I leave the house. Disengaging and detaching as much as possible. The energy that fuels the BPD nature must be nuclear. It's never ending. I'm just amazed and baffled at the level of delusion and denial that occurs. 28 years! It took me 26 to start figuring this out! I'm very frustrated and drained. I really don't recognize her at all. How could I have been so blind to this?

[Howitbegins]

Scarlet Phoenix

I really think way too much about being on my own without her. Too many things have happened. She's involved her family and so many other people with her victim behavior. Anything to win.

Any boundary I set she gets in her bulldozer and plows right over it. Thrown stuff out in the front yard if I leave. I was across the street with our very responsible neighbors that she knows are upstanding people. I get messages by text as if I am a child. Like come hoe or I'll come over in my robe. I'm gonna knock on the door. I

m crossing the street.      She texted for over 3 hours. I just ignored. Only to walk right across the street to have her attack me at the front door. Asking where I was at? She had my truck blocked in the driveway. She threatened to divorce and have me removed from the home.

It's so childishly aggressive.

[Howitbegins]

And thank you to all who reply. I really appreciate it!

[Howitbegins]

I'm also fighting really hard with the guilt she throws at me and standing my ground. I so badly want to believe and just bend to my nature. But I know better, It feels like I'm fighting against the natural course. And when I continue to stand my ground the "meanest husband ever" type of insults seem to get more intense and frequent. It really is disconcerting. Years of this has lead to ruminating thoughts are really hard to dispense. Tina Turner said "what does love have to do with it?" And I'm just asking "what does knowledge have to do with it?" I have read and read and yet the nature still overwhelms and persists.

[waverider]

How could I have been so blind to this?

Hard to read the label on the box until you step outside the box.

The harder you look the more you realize how it has pervaded every tiny corner of your life.

Where maybe once you saw symptoms you now see the cause.

Awareness is always a rough introduction to a new beginning.

[letmeout]

I'm so sorry you are going through this Howitbegins. I was in your shoes for 35 years. I was on this board for two years and tried all the lessons. My BPD ex just kept getting angrier, crazier and more threatening.

Some BPD people do get worse with age. I had hoped mine would mellow out, and some folks do I guess. But mine happens to have Narcissism as well as BPD and I finally realized there would be no ever getting better.

Even though I loved him I had to leave him and go No Contact. It was hard but my safety and sanity were at stake. My mental and physical health have returned and I know I made the right choice. Heaven help him and those who are in his life.  

[Notwendy]

How could you be blind to this? How we are raised has an affect on what feels familiar to us. Even children who are abused love their parents. They are the first, and most, significant people in our lives at a time when we build our personalities and sense of the world. Another significant influence on what we perceive as "normal" or familiar is the patterns of behaviors that are present in our families. Theory states that we attract and marry people who match us in a certain way. This attraction isn't conscious.

You say you married your mother but in some ways, I think you married mine. This is the kind of behavior I've seen if anyone imposed a boundary on her. Now, in my parents era, BPD and any approaches or treatment were not known. The only response we knew was to WOE (walk on eggshells) around her. The whole family became mom's co-dependents. She ruled the roost with fear. This even reinforced how the raging scenes would work, and so, they persisted unless we obeyed her every order.

I thankfully didn't marry my mother, but I brought the control system into my marriage, and walked on eggshells in accordance to my H's every mood. This matched something from his FOO. My co-dependency fueled this until I felt I had lost who I was in the marriage. It was then that I was motivated to work on myself to deal with the co-dependency issues.

Making changes, like boundaries, does feel unnatural to people raised in households where WOE is the norm, and we've been doing it for a long time. Families, and people, live in a sort of emotional balance. It may be dysfunctional but it works in the family. WOE worked for me as a kid, and it worked to keep peace in my marriage, but it also created dysfunction that I didn't want. These payoffs and prices of behaviors exist in a balance. When we change, the payoffs change. The people who enjoyed the payoffs don't like it. They no longer feel comfortable. They can react in ways we don't like, or didn't expect because we were WOE. It is good if you can get a support system for making these changes- like a T, or co-dependency support group, because it really does feel like learning to walk for the first time. There will be errors and successes. It makes sense if your first steps were on eggshells. Now, you're taking new ones, and when learning something new, you might fall down sometimes, but it is OK , you learn and get back up.

You are correct that it is a giant toddler temper tantrum. But now that you are on this road, if you go back, then she will learn that the tantrums work, just like a kid who wants a cookie for dinner. If the parent gives in, the tantrum stops, but the kid knows how to get cookies for dinner every night. If the parent can withstand the tantrum, the kid eventually learns they don't work. The most powerful reinforcement is intermittent, so be aware of when you give in to her demands to keep the peace. It does feel as if things are worse before they get better, but this is the time to not give in, because if you do, then it reinforces that this behavior works.

As to your boys, IMHO, the best thing you can do is self care, work on the co-dependency, and role model healthy behaviors. They look at you as an example. You may be concerned that they have gotten to this age already, but we can only do our best with what we know- and starting now can make a difference. Although to them, the problem is their mother, they probably don't understand your background and the role you play. I saw my father as my mother's victim, and wished he would stand up to her. It was only when I understood co-dependency that I could understand why things were the way they were. I don't think poorly of him, in fact, I saw him as my parent- the one stable parent I had. I realize he did a great job of being a dad in the circumstances. You can make an impact on your boys by taking a stand for yourself, and showing them how to do this. My kids ( teens) know about my background and they are aware that I have sought out help for co-dependency. I feel that at least if I can model this, I have made a difference in the patterns I grew up with.

Hang in there- it is baby steps, and one step at a time.