did anyone else struggle with criticizing parents or self-criticism?

[Depression = 72% of members]

This may seem off-topic, but I feel like the breakup from a BPD may challenge our sense of self-worth and that's one of the most difficult aspects of healing from these situations.  I wonder if this is tied to our upbringing where we tended to be hard on ourselves or quick to blame ourselves for when things didn't work out the way we wanted. 

Very curious: Did anyone else grow up with one or more parents that were highly critical or very hard on you?  I’m talking about some combination of the following:

•   Saying things that are mean or insensitive; when you call them out on it, they’ll tell you to “grow up/stop being a baby”, “stop being so sensitive” or that they were “just joking”

•   When you tell them about an accomplishment, it’s never “good enough” – there’s always something you could have done better or forgot to do

•   Making constant comparisons with other people and what they do/don’t have

•   Criticizing your insecurities constantly and not in a constructive way – “you’re too ___”; “you need to be more ____”;

•   Criticizing your siblings / other parent the same way?

Similarly, did anyone grow up with a dull sadness or emptiness, feeling like something was defective about you or wrong with you?  Never fully allowing yourself to be happy because things weren’t 100% perfect or because there’s always that next goal to achieve?

I wrestle with these issues constantly & wonder if there’s a correlation between these FOO dynamics and our being susceptible to abusive/PD significant others or friends…

Thanks to anyone that responds... .

[NYCIntrospect]

This may seem off-topic, but I feel like the breakup from a BPD may challenge our sense of self-worth and that's one of the most difficult aspects of healing from these situations.  I wonder if this is tied to our upbringing where we tended to be hard on ourselves or quick to blame ourselves for when things didn't work out the way we wanted. 

Very curious: Did anyone else grow up with one or more parents that were highly critical or very hard on you?  I’m talking about some combination of the following:

•   Saying things that are mean or insensitive; when you call them out on it, they’ll tell you to “grow up/stop being a baby”, “stop being so sensitive” or that they were “just joking”

•   When you tell them about an accomplishment, it’s never “good enough” – there’s always something you could have done better or forgot to do

•   Making constant comparisons with other people and what they do/don’t have

•   Criticizing your insecurities constantly and not in a constructive way – “you’re too ___”; “you need to be more ____”;

•   Criticizing your siblings / other parent the same way?

Similarly, did anyone grow up with a dull sadness or emptiness, feeling like something was defective about you or wrong with you?  Never fully allowing yourself to be happy because things weren’t 100% perfect or because there’s always that next goal to achieve?

I wrestle with these issues constantly & wonder if there’s a correlation between these FOO dynamics and our being susceptible to abusive/PD significant others or friends…

Thanks to anyone that responds... .

[GreenEyedMonster]

The issue that I grew up with that I think impacted me most as an adult was adults invalidating my feelings or disregarding my intentions.

I was a "good kid" and a very good student.  I had teachers who thought they needed to "teach me a lesson" that life wasn't so easy, so they would punish me arbitrarily, for minor infractions that I committed by accident.  This left me with the feeling that life is unpredictable and even when you do your very best, the only thing that matters is perfection.  Trying hard and wanting to do well just don't count.  For me, these sort of arbitrary shows of power continued straight up through my undergraduate experience at a major university, so it is very much a part of my worldview.

Also, my parents would find ways to ignore or downplay my emotions.  If I were sad as a kid, and cried over it, my mother would say things like, "Look what you are doing to your father!"  Or when I had OCD symptoms as a teenager, she said that I didn't need a therapist, I was just fine.  Or she would attribute my feelings to PMS and use this as a reason to ignore them.  My parents weren't malicious about this; I think they just had no idea how to deal with my feelings in a validating way.  I think that I just never learned to self-regulate properly, and that's why I have so many fears of what will happen in the outside world.

People who validate me end up having more power over me than they should.  They are giving me what I was missing and what I am so hungry for.  My NPD/BPD ex validated me, and even though I did intend to leave the relationship even before he broke up with me, that validation kept me hanging on longer than it should have.  It was very self-serving on his part.  People with fears like mine are easy pickings for pwNPD in particular.

[steelwork]

This is a great question.

I did not get a lot of criticism from my parents. Instead, I got some pretty weird programming that made it okay for them to neglect and abandon me. Essentially, I was told I was a "wise child" who "knew my own mind" and didn't need normal parenting. Which put me in charge of all the bad things that happened to me and all the attendant feelings. I was programmed not to ask for help or expect to have my emotional needs met, because the thing they loved me for (I felt) was my lack of neediness.

In a sense amounts to the same thing as what you said. I took on a lot of self-blame. I think I will repeat the quote I put in another thread today, from this morning's therapy session. My therapist quoted a psychoanalyst named I think Fairbairn:

"It's easier to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than to live in a world ruled by the devil." (Or something close to that.)

Your parents are the world when you're little. You want them to be benign. You want God to be in his heaven. If things are amiss, if you are not getting what you need, maybe it's easier to believe that it's your fault.

I wrote some stuff about it on the parents/in-laws/sibings board:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=289743.0

[steelwork]

People who validate me end up having more power over me than they should.  They are giving me what I was missing and what I am so hungry for. 

!

Conversely, I'm also overly suspicious of healthy validation.

[NYCIntrospect]

People who validate me end up having more power over me than they should.  They are giving me what I was missing and what I am so hungry for.  My NPD/BPD ex validated me, and even though I did intend to leave the relationship even before he broke up with me, that validation kept me hanging on longer than it should have.  It was very self-serving on his part.  People with fears like mine are easy pickings for pwNPD in particular.

You just described my past relationship!  WOW!  Yes - that validation is addictive and it's totally what we didn't get enough of - they're filling an empty well!  I was also ready to leave but the validation they give is hard to give up!  thanks for your response.  I also totally relate to parent diminishing feelings / needs.  we have that in common.

[NYCIntrospect]

I did not get a lot of criticism from my parents. Instead, I got some pretty weird programming that made it okay for them to neglect and abandon me. Essentially, I was told I was a "wise child" who "knew my own mind" and didn't need normal parenting. Which put me in charge of all the bad things that happened to me and all the attendant feelings. I was programmed not to ask for help or expect to have my emotional needs met, because the thing they loved me for (I felt) was my lack of neediness.

Do you think your desire to stay the "wise child / good child" caused you to avoid conflict or suppress your own needs/emotions in order to continue pleasing the parents?  I can relate to this, obviously please ignore the question if it's too personal... .

[steelwork]

I did not get a lot of criticism from my parents. Instead, I got some pretty weird programming that made it okay for them to neglect and abandon me. Essentially, I was told I was a "wise child" who "knew my own mind" and didn't need normal parenting. Which put me in charge of all the bad things that happened to me and all the attendant feelings. I was programmed not to ask for help or expect to have my emotional needs met, because the thing they loved me for (I felt) was my lack of neediness.

Do you think your desire to stay the "wise child / good child" caused you to avoid conflict or suppress your own needs/emotions in order to continue pleasing the parents?  I can relate to this, obviously please ignore the question if it's too personal... .

Absolutely, yes. A thousand times yes.

I never had an argument with my mother until I was in my twenties. And Never had one with my father. (He died when I was 14.)

Donald Winnecott, another psychoanalyst, talks about how compliance in children can be an unhealthy sign.

[steelwork]

I was diagnosed with C(omplex)PTSD. Not so sure about it, but there's no way around it: FOO issues here!

I think another thing to remember is that trauma in childhood can make you more vulnerable to trauma later in life. So it's a double-edged sword: it leads you into a relationship with a disordered personality, and then it makes it hurt more when it's over.

[Rmbrworst]

I was emotionally and physically abused as a child.

[steelwork]

I'm so sorry.

[NYCIntrospect]

I was diagnosed with C(omplex)PTSD. Not so sure about it, but there's no way around it: FOO issues here!

I think another thing to remember is that trauma in childhood can make you more vulnerable to trauma later in life. So it's a double-edged sword: it leads you into a relationship with a disordered personality, and then it makes it hurt more when it's over.

Sorry to hear about the FOO issue, and thanks for the insight on trauma & vulnerability.  hopefully it helps to avoid repetition of the pattern

[NYCIntrospect]

I was emotionally and physically abused as a child.

I'm very sorry to hear that. 

[GreenEyedMonster]

People who validate me end up having more power over me than they should.  They are giving me what I was missing and what I am so hungry for.  My NPD/BPD ex validated me, and even though I did intend to leave the relationship even before he broke up with me, that validation kept me hanging on longer than it should have.  It was very self-serving on his part.  People with fears like mine are easy pickings for pwNPD in particular.

You just described my past relationship!  WOW!  Yes - that validation is addictive and it's totally what we didn't get enough of - they're filling an empty well!  I was also ready to leave but the validation they give is hard to give up!  thanks for your response.  I also totally relate to parent diminishing feelings / needs.  we have that in common.

Glad that it helped you to read that.  I think the reason that I've had an easier time detaching from my exwBPD is that he DIDN'T actually validate me all that well later in the relationship.  He began leaving me behind for important events despite my feelings, things like that.  So he began repeating the neglect I had experienced as a child.  That opened old wounds and made me want to bolt.  Those on this board who felt entirely validated by a BPD ex until the moment of the breakup have my deepest sympathy -- I can't imagine what that would feel like.

[steelwork]

Those on this board who felt entirely validated by a BPD ex until the moment of the breakup have my deepest sympathy -- I can't imagine what that would feel like.

Gulp. This was me.

[Rmbrworst]

The most painful emotional abuse I've experienced in my life was when my exBPD discarded me 8 hours after he dedicated himself to me and we made 3 very important and expensive plans for the near future.

It sounds tame on paper, but it devastated me to my very core.

[NYCIntrospect]

The most painful emotional abuse I've experienced in my life was when my exBPD discarded me 8 hours after he dedicated himself to me and we made 3 very important and expensive plans for the near future.

It sounds tame on paper, but it devastated me to my very core.

I don't think it sounds tame on paper at all. It sounds freaking terrible.

I've come to realize a lot of my struggle is that I used to let outside events be a reflection of my self-worth. If I were in the situation you describe I'd be crushed, and regardless of the other person being mentally ill or unstable, I'd take it as a heavy reflection of me. Sounds very painful. 

[Infern0]

This may seem off-topic, but I feel like the breakup from a BPD may challenge our sense of self-worth and that's one of the most difficult aspects of healing from these situations.  I wonder if this is tied to our upbringing where we tended to be hard on ourselves or quick to blame ourselves for when things didn't work out the way we wanted. 

Very curious: Did anyone else grow up with one or more parents that were highly critical or very hard on you?  I’m talking about some combination of the following:

•   Saying things that are mean or insensitive; when you call them out on it, they’ll tell you to “grow up/stop being a baby”, “stop being so sensitive” or that they were “just joking”

•   When you tell them about an accomplishment, it’s never “good enough” – there’s always something you could have done better or forgot to do

•   Making constant comparisons with other people and what they do/don’t have

•   Criticizing your insecurities constantly and not in a constructive way – “you’re too ___”; “you need to be more ____”;

•   Criticizing your siblings / other parent the same way?

Similarly, did anyone grow up with a dull sadness or emptiness, feeling like something was defective about you or wrong with you?  Never fully allowing yourself to be happy because things weren’t 100% perfect or because there’s always that next goal to achieve?

I wrestle with these issues constantly & wonder if there’s a correlation between these FOO dynamics and our being susceptible to abusive/PD significant others or friends…

Thanks to anyone that responds... .

Absoloutley

I had an emotionally unstable (i suspect BPD) mother, who was unable to emotionally look after herself, let alone a son, and I had a father who in all honesty didn't want to have a child.

Dad was very negative towards me all the way until I turned about 17/18, at that stage I became old enough to go to the pub with him and drink beer and play pool, so at that stage my relationship with him improved a lot, but i became more of a friend than a son tbh.

Mum was fairly ok with me when i was a kid, but to be honest used me as a therapist/emotional outlet, and filled my head with all sorts of things I shouldn't have had to deal with, but all of this was training me to be the perfect victim for a BPD later in life. Such things as "your dad is cheating on me" or "we have no money and might have to live on the streets" or "i'm going to have a nervous breakdown, they are going to take me to a mental hospital" were common themes, when i was 4,5,6 years old.

When I got to about age 12, and begun to develop a sense of self, my mother turned on me and was almost purely negative from then on, she used to say things like "I still love you, but i don't like you anymore" or "you were such a good baby, i don't know what went wrong" bare in mind that I was a pretty good kid even at this age, certainly no more badly behaved than average, but you would have thought i was the kid from the omen or something.

Disagreeing with my mother was absoloutley not allowed under any circumstances, it was her way or the highway, I was constantly threatened with abandonment and my feelings were invalidated at every turn.

It wasn't until post BPD when i reviewed my childhood in therapy that i realised i had been raised in an awful environment, before that i chalked my mum up as "a bit annoying" but it was far, far worse than that

I felt alone and empty, and pointless until I met my BPD, i finally thought i had met "the one" and i was suddenly alive, full of energy and happier than i'd ever been, she validated me at every turn and convinced me i was not worthless, and that I was in fact special, "the kindest, most caring, most amazing person i've ever met" and this went on all through the first few months.

Then one day i was devalued and she dropped me on my head and treated me worse than anyone ever has, and fired off my "flaws" like she was a machine gun, spitting out everything that was wrong with me.

That was the moment i was completley broken as a person, like mentally broken, i was finished. And every day since then has been rebuilding.

[empathic]

Here too. My parents were very critical, mostly when it came to grades and my future - put a lot of pressure on me to go to college etc.

My mother was also overly protective, while my father never seemed like he wanted to spend time with me. My fears and problems with others in school were pushed under the rug ("it will get better when... .".

The dull sadness was there. Spent a lot of time alone.

On the other hand, my (much older) sister was treated very differently by my parents, like they connected with her more.

[kentavr3]

We can discuss over and over again what is BPD. It make us feel better and more calm for the short period of the time. Generally saying we got in this chaos relationships because we have a life trap. My father is NP . He is a professor in the University. Loved by students. By he was a monster-Rolle coaster toward me. As I remember, from when I was 6 years old he started humiliating me for nothing. He called me dumb, stupid idiot and etc. He called himself “teacher”, but I called his collection of words “teacher collection”. I became tolerant to this. His attitude to me ruined completely my self-esteem. I didn’t have a word “NO”. I didn’t have my own opinion. The only world where I felt myself comfortable was sport. This probably created a little bit of my self-esteem and character. My father cared about me just a little.  from my childhood I leant how to win his love. My mother is hysteric and probably BPD. She couldn’t assert my father. She was overprotective. So, my opinion wasn’t  value for her too. Their relationship  were stormy. A lot of fighting. I always lived in a Rolle caster of peace and war. No wander, that I went through 2 cycles of my 10 years marriage with BPD wife. And I still want her back to me. You would ask me if I want to get her out of my mind. I would say, that for the first sign yes. But, looks like no. this type of the relationship that called traumatic or Stockholm syndrome is attractive to me. I don’t know how to break it.

Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly eight percent of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.[3]Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."[4] One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual's response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.[5]

[steelwork]

One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual's response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.[5]

This is where that quote from Fairbairn comes in. Again:

“it is better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than to live in a world ruled by the Devil”

I think he was an innovator in object relations theory, which is considered a non-Freudian view of personality structure. I've been reading up on it but hesitate to make a recommendation. Maybe one of the ambassadors or more experienced members can recommend a good source on it.

[steelwork]

One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual's response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.[5]

This is where that quote from Fairbairn comes in. Again:

“it is better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than to live in a world ruled by the Devil”

He was an innovator of object relations theory, which I think is considered a non-Freudian view of personality structure. I've been reading up on it but hesitate to make a recommendation. Maybe one of the ambassadors or more experienced members can recommend a good source on it.

[FURDA]

I was physically and emotionally abused as a child and young adult more or less all the time although I didn't realise  for a very long time how toxic my parents are.   I was always in fear when "it" will happen again.  It is my father who has BPD, but my mother is helping and supporting him still and she never protected me from his violence. He shot my dog, for example when I was 12 and didn't bother to hide his dead body from me. He shot him because he didn't meet his high standards on how a dog should behave. Once he took me with him to clean the bloody scene of the suicide attempt of one relative. I was nothing in his eyes because I was a girl. I dressed as a boy. Played with snakes, lizards and frogs. I learned how to shoot. I fought and beaten all the toughest boys in the primary school. Nothing helped btw.  And I was shocked and disgusted of my body when I started to grow into a woman. Only when I went away to university I gradually realised that things around me were far from normal. Luckily I always read a lot and I think that literature practically saved me from going mad. I am not healed and I will never be "whole". And  I was so mad about my parents for a very long time because of all that.  I can't forgive them because some things are unforgivable. But I don't bother much about that either. Now my father is terminally ill. I know that nothing can be done to improve our relationship because he should make an apology first or at least admit to himself that he has serious problems. 

[eeks]

This may seem off-topic, but I feel like the breakup from a BPD may challenge our sense of self-worth and that's one of the most difficult aspects of healing from these situations.  I wonder if this is tied to our upbringing where we tended to be hard on ourselves or quick to blame ourselves for when things didn't work out the way we wanted.  

Hi NYCIntrospect,

I don't find it off topic. I would say that for those of us with family of origin (FOO) issues, the pain of the breakup with a pwBPD may be exacerbated by the fact that it reminds us of how we felt in childhood.

I'm just thinking about "being quick to blame oneself" in light of what you've said and the subsequent responses... .and thinking about my mother's description of how she had to deal with her likely NPD father, and how she did not want to do the same to me but the unconscious programming ended up coming out anyway... .and it makes me wonder if self-criticism (internalizing the parent's criticism) is the child's defense against the parent's failure to allow them to be autonomous, be a separate person, allowing the child to say "no", have their own opinions, feelings, thoughts.

Although the client here "Alice" had a much more severely emotionally abusive upbringing than mine, I relate to a lot of what is discussed here:  www.danielshawlcsw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Enter_Ghosts.pdf

"Although each narcissist parent/child couple has its own uniquely complex story, one bottom line is that these patients, the adult children of narcissist parents, have been brought up to believe they are always wrong and cannot win, by a parent or parents who claim unyielding infallibility. The justice system in such families has become rotten, corrupt. Any opposition from the child is characterized by the parent as signifying the child’s moral failure, punishable by the withdrawal of the parent’s love and the administration of contempt."

I thought that might sound familiar to some of you.  (Note that "narcissistic" is not used here in the sense of "let's assume all our parents have NPD", but to describe a small-n narcissistic relationship dynamic, where one party wishes to dominate and not allow the other's subjectivity.)

I have described my mother's response in some situations of conflict (where others might get aggressive, try to negotiate, a range of other responses) as "hands up, back away from the table".  In other words, there are times when she immediately forfeits her own interests in order to bring a speedy end to conflict.  The attitude seems to be "you're going to take my goodies anyway, so I'll make it easier for myself by just giving them up, that way you won't hit or criticize me"

So becoming critical of themselves may be the "least worst solution" that the child comes up with.  However, for our own growth we might think about what the alternative is.  

- having the right to say no to unfair or impossible expectations

- the right to say no when someone else tries to put the burden on us to be responsible for their happiness (via abuse, threats, guilt trips, etc.)

- the right to our own thoughts, feelings and opinions, and the right to disagree without hostility

Similarly, did anyone grow up with a dull sadness or emptiness, feeling like something was defective about you or wrong with you?  Never fully allowing yourself to be happy because things weren’t 100% perfect or because there’s always that next goal to achieve?

Yep.  Even at the best times in my life, there was a subtle undercurrent of "there's just something wrong with me".  And you know what, it's a vicious treadmill (I deliberately mixed metaphors).  You could be perfect and a narcissistic parent would still not be pleased, because that's the whole point.  All the good is in them, all the bad is in someone else (in this case, you).  

So we have to figure out how to give up on this fruitless cause.  

I wrestle with these issues constantly & wonder if there’s a correlation between these FOO dynamics and our being susceptible to abusive/PD significant others or friends…

I'd buy it.  My response to my uBPD ex's criticism was, at least at first, a panicked attempt to prove to him that I was not the horrible person with selfish motives that he claimed I was.  Of course I eventually started to notice that if I stuck to the facts, and one of his distraction tactics didn't work, he'd try another one.  And I saw the double standard, as well.  But maybe there's something about that history of FOO perfectionism that allows a personality disordered person's abuse/criticism to get its "hooks" in deeper.  The fantasy that somehow we can "earn" love by being perfect, initiated by that vicious treadmill our parents put us on.  So, again, to figure out what it would take for us to give up on that lost cause (even if we are no longer in contact with our parents, the internalized version of them as the "voice in our head".)

[NYCIntrospect]

He shot my dog, for example when I was 12 and didn't bother to hide his dead body from me. He shot him because he didn't meet his high standards on how a dog should behave.

this makes me so sad

[NYCIntrospect]

But maybe there's something about that history of FOO perfectionism that allows a personality disordered person's abuse/criticism to get its "hooks" in deeper.  The fantasy that somehow we can "earn" love by being perfect, initiated by that vicious treadmill our parents put us on.  So, again, to figure out what it would take for us to give up on that lost cause (even if we are no longer in contact with our parents, the internalized version of them as the "voice in our head".)

I started reading Self Compassion a while back but didn't finish it.  Earning love by being perfect / the vicious treadmill is something I relate to.  Whenever I am about to embark on something now, I remind myself that my worth isn't tied to this outcome.  Baby steps... .

[GreenEyedMonster]

I have described my mother's response in some situations of conflict (where others might get aggressive, try to negotiate, a range of other responses) as "hands up, back away from the table".  In other words, there are times when she immediately forfeits her own interests in order to bring a speedy end to conflict.  The attitude seems to be "you're going to take my goodies anyway, so I'll make it easier for myself by just giving them up, that way you won't hit or criticize me"

So becoming critical of themselves may be the "least worst solution" that the child comes up with.  However, for our own growth we might think about what the alternative is.  

- having the right to say no to unfair or impossible expectations

- the right to say no when someone else tries to put the burden on us to be responsible for their happiness (via abuse, threats, guilt trips, etc.)

- the right to our own thoughts, feelings and opinions, and the right to disagree without hostility

In my family, my mother would become very upset if she did something "nice" for you and you didn't like it.  This might include cooking a meal, buying a gift, arranging a trip . . . anything.  Everyone in my family tiptoes around my mother's opinion.  My dad, I think, has just learned to live with it because he sees no alternative, and he doesn't seem to mind it that much.  I brush up against it more.  My mother once didn't speak to me for about three days when I was home for a holiday because I didn't like her idea for putting a table in the bathroom.  She didn't speak to me for a long time once when I was in college because I didn't like the man she was trying to set me up with.  Opposing viewpoints were not looked upon favorably.  Even now, she thinks that things that have nothing to do with her are self-referential, e.g. other people's disagreements with her religious or political beliefs that they discuss on Facebook.

Through my relationship with my ex, I've learned so much about how these things probably affected me as an adult.  My initial attraction to people is almost always tainted by the sense that the other person needs my "services" much like my mother does.  It provides a sense of security and familiarity, while being with someone who claims to just arbitrarily like me feels loose and scary.  It's as if I need to know what I bring to the table in the relationship to feel secure.  With my exBPD, it was that I was his first and only real, in-person girlfriend in his whole life.  He was deprived of physical attention, family, company, and all sorts of things.  I could name the things that I could give him that he lacked, and that made me feel good about the situation.  Unfortunately, this list of things was all he really wanted from me, and the responsibilities of a relationship held no appeal.  Also, he had lived without them for so long that getting rid of me if I became an inconvenience was nothing to him.  Given that he's pretty much a narcissist, meeting my needs in return didn't have the same appeal. 

Ironically, this is one relationship where I wasn't attracted to him because of his neediness at all to begin with, like I have been in the past.  It was just a lucky coincidence in this round, as I figured this was a healthy guy who could have almost any girl he wanted.

[eeks]

I started reading Self Compassion a while back but didn't finish it.  Earning love by being perfect / the vicious treadmill is something I relate to.  Whenever I am about to embark on something now, I remind myself that my worth isn't tied to this outcome.  Baby steps... .

In my family, my mother would become very upset if she did something "nice" for you and you didn't like it.  This might include cooking a meal, buying a gift, arranging a trip . . . anything.

Through my relationship with my ex, I've learned so much about how these things probably affected me as an adult.  My initial attraction to people is almost always tainted by the sense that the other person needs my "services" much like my mother does.  It provides a sense of security and familiarity, while being with someone who claims to just arbitrarily like me feels loose and scary.  It's as if I need to know what I bring to the table in the relationship to feel secure. 

I see the connection you are making here.  You have been able to express disagreement with your mother, but it sounds like she required "payment" (liking it, gratitude) for anything that she did for you.  And you feel more secure in a relationship when you "know what you bring to the table", and you feel insecure when you are with someone who claims to like you for who you are, in other words they don't require "payment" from you.

It might be interesting to stay with and observe that "loose and scary" feeling (even if it is just remembering back to past relationships).  How intense is it?  What are you afraid will happen?  What are the thoughts and beliefs that go along with it?

[GreenEyedMonster]

It might be interesting to stay with and observe that "loose and scary" feeling (even if it is just remembering back to past relationships).  How intense is it?  What are you afraid will happen?  What are the thoughts and beliefs that go along with it?

It makes me feel a sort of strange disgust toward the person who is interested in me.  The long and short of it is that if they chose me arbitrarily, they can leave me arbitrarily.  Why wouldn't they just bolt if something better came along?  I was very attractive as an adolescent and had men (some much older) interested in me just for my physical appearance, but when they found out what my personality was like, they'd bolt.  Or if they found someone hotter.  I don't put much faith in other people's passing fancies.  It feels like an "easy come, easy go" kind of scenario.

Yes, the "nice" things I got growing up always came with an emotional price.  If my mother would hurt me inadvertently after she did something nice for me, she would tell me that I was bad or wrong to criticize someone who did nice things for me.  When you're a kid, that shuts you up real fast.  Eerily, my exBPD/NPD basically played the same card, where he would do something that hurt me, but I wasn't supposed to talk about it because he was overall a "good boyfriend" and nitpicking him was "childish" and so was "keeping score" in an attempt to have reciprocity.

[circularref]

Very curious: Did anyone else grow up with one or more parents that were highly critical or very hard on you?  I’m talking about some combination of the following:

•   Saying things that are mean or insensitive; when you call them out on it, they’ll tell you to “grow up/stop being a baby”, “stop being so sensitive” or that they were “just joking”

•   When you tell them about an accomplishment, it’s never “good enough” – there’s always something you could have done better or forgot to do

•   Making constant comparisons with other people and what they do/don’t have

•   Criticizing your insecurities constantly and not in a constructive way – “you’re too ___”; “you need to be more ____”;

•   Criticizing your siblings / other parent the same way?

Yes absolutely. My parents were never insensitive or mean and were always very supportive. However they were (particularly my mom) very ambitious (and still are) regarding career and being a good person. They've always pushed me and my sisters to take up hobbies and have good grades in school. School results were never good enough, I would always be compared with a friend/classmate that was doing better than me. Until this person got a bad grade or did something wrong, and I was compared to the next friend/classmate that was doing better than me. When it was time to choose a university course, I had many arguments with my parents: I wanted to do Computer Science and they thought there was no big career possibility with this (they've since change their minds). This has made me very ambitious, always wanted to succeed and I always criticize myself and blame myself a lot for any kind of failure. I even get anxious at the possibility of "fcuking up".

This certainly played a big role in my relationship with my exBPD, I'd blame myself immediately for any mistake, let her make it sound way worse than it was. Which helped her a lot into presenting herself as the victim. I was kicking myself a lot after the break up until a friend told me something that really helped: "stop blaming yourself, you fcuked some things up, she did as well, but at the end you showed her you care and that's what matters."

EDIT: my parents have mellowed out a lot in recent years, and a much less pushy

[kentavr3]

Let me share how I started my baby steps with relationships with my parents. I read a lot literature regarding BPD. But, anyway I had to turn a mirror toward myself. I’m codependent. Very heavy codependent. I understood about detachment and saying and making assertive relationship with my parents who divorced long time ago.

I keep preventing my mom from intruding to my life. When she visits me I put strong rules of my house. She can do only what I asked. She tries to do what she wants, but I stop it. I can’t take care of myself only. She can’t take care of my anymore. She can take care about herself only. I’m absolutely detached from her hysterics. She uses FOG. I started notice it. I don’t react on this anymore. I don’t accept anymore her complains that my father was Narcisse and she couldn’t leave good. It was her choice.

Father. This is who abused me from childhood. Full physical and emotional detachment. People around blame me that he is 80 years and die soo and I can’t ne so strict to him. This is FOG. I’m not guilty that he is 80 years old. I don’t want to hear his criticism anymore. For the beginning he criticized me for this behavioral. I used a method by questioning him : “DO YOU FEEL BETTER WHEN YOU THINK THAT I’m BAD?” he didn’t know what to answer. His answer was “no”. NO? WHY THEN YOU CRITIZE ME?. If answer yes, “YOU NEED NO SEE A THERAPIST”.WE call each other on birthdays only. He doesn’t interesting in me. I don’t interesting in his business.

I went with a second cycle with my BPDw. She left me. 4 months passed and I haven’t bagged her to return. I see therapist. I go to SLAA meetings. Unfortunately, I started taking antidepressants. I still terribly missing my BPD. Antidepressants helped me to stay in real facts and take care of myself and my daughter.