Foot on both boards

[kc sunshine]

Hi all. I feel like I have a foot in both boards-- what I want to do (save the relationship) and what I have to do in response to what is happening (having to detach from a failed relationship). Is this something that others have faced?

I was more on the detaching board but then we had an interaction last week that made me think there was the possibility of the relationship being saved. Now I don't know where to be.

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[Turkish]

Hi kcs,

Can you tell us more about this interaction and your feelings about it?

Not to get ahead of things, but one thing my T told me that helped (and of this I have to constantly remind myself), "can you accept her for who she is rather than who you expect her to be?"

T.

[kc sunshine]

Hi T,

Here's the interaction:

I was returning home from 6 weeks of being away (taking care of my mom in another state). My ex had broken up with me and gotten together with someone else a couple weeks earlier so it was also a chance to heal a bit from that-- to take some time and distance away.

On the night that I drove in (last Wednesday), she texted me asking if I had arrived and saying she thought that I'd come right over to say hi. (I wouldn't have because we were broken up and I thought she was with someone else). She invited me over in a kind of flirtatious way. So I went over and we were talking and she told me that she had been in a relationship with a couple while I'd been away but now they were on a break. She was sitting very close and it felt like it could move towards intimacy. But then I told her that I went on a couple of dates when I was away and she became enraged and couldn't talk to me anymore-- I just had to leave without saying goodbye even.

The next day she texted me to apologize and asked if I could hang out with her daughter who was sick. We texted and left messages on each others phones so things seemed okay again. After that day things got weird again-- she'd text me kind of terse emails and then wouldn't reply when I'd reply. We finally met up on Sunday and had a nice short walk, "a successful friend interaction" (in her words). She told me that she and the couple had gotten back together, which would explain the shift in tone with me. She still was kind of mad about the dates, but more in a lighthearted way, without the bitterness of the earlier night.

So that's where things are now. From a "saving the relationship" perspective, what gives me hope is that she seemed open to intimacy with me that night and also that she has lots of emotions around me dating. I know those could just be transitional emotions/impulses for her, but they are something!

So here's what I see as my long-shot options (from a saving the relationship perspective):

1) go LC with her and hope that if the relationship with the couple breaks up again she might be open again to me

2) stay more engaged with her as friends and hope that if the relationship with the couple breaks up again she might be open again to me

Also, during both of the above options, work on staying grounded through the push/pulls (if they continue) and working on my communication skills (I need to learn more about validating and stating my truth under duress) so that we could have a better chance if we can get back together.

And yes, I'm pretty sure I  "can you accept her for who she is rather than who I expect her to be." What I'd want to change if we ever got a chance for another go round is me-- I'd like to be more the person that I'd want to be in it (thus the work on validation and getting skilled about boundaries & asserting things that are important to me).

Hi kcs,

Can you tell us more about this interaction and your feelings about it?

Not to get ahead of things, but one thing my T told me that helped (and of this I have to constantly remind myself), "can you accept her for who she is rather than who you expect her to be?"

T.

[kc sunshine]

I'm still kicking myself a bit about telling her about the dates ... .they weren't even a big deal . I think we might have been in a different situation if I just kept my dang mouth shut... .but you can't turn back the clock.

Hi T,

Here's the interaction:

I was returning home from 6 weeks of being away (taking care of my mom in another state). My ex had broken up with me and gotten together with someone else a couple weeks earlier so it was also a chance to heal a bit from that-- to take some time and distance away.

On the night that I drove in (last Wednesday), she texted me asking if I had arrived and saying she thought that I'd come right over to say hi. (I wouldn't have because we were broken up and I thought she was with someone else). She invited me over in a kind of flirtatious way. So I went over and we were talking and she told me that she had been in a relationship with a couple while I'd been away but now they were on a break. She was sitting very close and it felt like it could move towards intimacy. But then I told her that I went on a couple of dates when I was away and she became enraged and couldn't talk to me anymore-- I just had to leave without saying goodbye even.

The next day she texted me to apologize and asked if I could hang out with her daughter who was sick. We texted and left messages on each others phones so things seemed okay again. After that day things got weird again-- she'd text me kind of terse emails and then wouldn't reply when I'd reply. We finally met up on Sunday and had a nice short walk, "a successful friend interaction" (in her words). She told me that she and the couple had gotten back together, which would explain the shift in tone with me. She still was kind of mad about the dates, but more in a lighthearted way, without the bitterness of the earlier night.

So that's where things are now. From a "saving the relationship" perspective, what gives me hope is that she seemed open to intimacy with me that night and also that she has lots of emotions around me dating. I know those could just be transitional emotions/impulses for her, but they are something!

So here's what I see as my long-shot options (from a saving the relationship perspective):

1) go LC with her and hope that if the relationship with the couple breaks up again she might be open again to me

2) stay more engaged with her as friends and hope that if the relationship with the couple breaks up again she might be open again to me

Also, during both of the above options, work on staying grounded through the push/pulls (if they continue) and working on my communication skills (I need to learn more about validating and stating my truth under duress) so that we could have a better chance if we can get back together.

And yes, I'm pretty sure I  "can you accept her for who she is rather than who I expect her to be." What I'd want to change if we ever got a chance for another go round is me-- I'd like to be more the person that I'd want to be in it (thus the work on validation and getting skilled about boundaries & asserting things that are important to me).

Hi kcs,

Can you tell us more about this interaction and your feelings about it?

Not to get ahead of things, but one thing my T told me that helped (and of this I have to constantly remind myself), "can you accept her for who she is rather than who you expect her to be?"

T.

[MapleBob]

So here's what I see as my long-shot options (from a saving the relationship perspective):

1) go LC with her and hope that if the relationship with the couple breaks up again she might be open again to me

2) stay more engaged with her as friends and hope that if the relationship with the couple breaks up again she might be open again to me

I spent some time straddling both boards too, kc, so I know how weird that is to vacillate and be in two minds about.

My best advice to you: she's not going to stay with this couple (or they won't stay with her). I can't say that 100%, but I've been in and seen poly triads and they just never last. It's hard enough to keep two people together long-term! (That's just my experience, and my prediction, so... ."grain of salt". When/if it ends it sounds likely that she might try to recycle you. BUT I don't think it will be healthy for you to jump right back into it with her - you would need some hard boundaries and rules and an exit strategy and it will probably be very stressful at times. And she might leave again to get involved in some other doomed situation where she can be as reckless as she wants again.

Just thoughts... .I could be wrong. Overall I think that achieving a higher level of detachment from her is going to help you regardless of what happens with her in the future. It's kind of on her to rebuild the trust.

[Turkish]

I see both options as not only putting the ball into her court (at this point she sounds wishy washy), but also you in the one down position, that is, giving her the power, even if implicitly. What do you think?

[SamwizeGamgee]

I don't know your situation, but, it sounds to me like you are not treating yourself as well as you should be.  I'm not saying be aggressive, but it sounds like you are letting yourself get strung along according to whatever someone else wants.  You say that you would just wait out what happens, and see if there's something left for you if/when she tires of the couple she is mixed up with now.  To me that does not sound like you are respecting yourself.  You deserve an equal share in an equal relationship. 

It sounds like you are accepting of open relationships, which takes a lot of balancing, so, clearly make sure you are getting a say in what you want.

[kc sunshine]

Yes, I definitely see what you all mean. I think I need some critical distance on the situation. I'm still reeling from the push pull a bit, and have lost my footing a bit.

[livednlearned]

Hi kc,

One of the core tenets of being in a BPD relationship is to not get swept up in what's happening 4 inches above ground. If you can accept her for who she is, then a lot of the pain is going to be at that 4 inch distance.

Being in a BPD relationship means taking the 30,000 foot view. She may come and go, get angry, change her mind, be on again, off again, feel good, feel bad, feel mad, all in a day.  

If you find yourself moving back and forth on the two boards in response to what is happening at the 4 inch view, then that's a sign that you may be reacting to her push/pull.

Turkish's question is a really good one, about accepting her as she is. It sounds like you are all in, knowing what you know about BPD.

And it also sounds like you know where the rubber meets the road in terms of making this relationship work for you.

My suggestion is mostly pragmatic, because when emotions are swirling those pragmatic aids can really help. And that's to check the pattern of your own behavior in terms of whether you see yourself "detaching" or "saving" the relationship in response to her actions.

[kc sunshine]

That sounds really right, livednlearned. And perhaps what is good about her being in other relationships is that it gives me some time and space (whether we get back together or not) to step away from the 4 inches and go to the 30,000 foot. At 4 inches some of the stuff feels so hurtful, while at 30,000 feet it may feel less so.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean when you say "check the pattern of your own behavior in terms of whether you see yourself "detaching" or "saving" the relationship in response to her actions." Do you mean check whether I am being merely reactive to her in terms of detaching and saving-- e.g. detaching when she is pushing and trying to save the relationship when she is pulling? And that I should be more steady-- e.g. focus on saving whether she is pushing or pulling (and what would that look like?  I'm not quite sure what to do to save when we are outside of a relationship and she is pushing and pulling). Detaching is more clear (though not easier)-- it's the saving part that I'm feeling kind of at sea about.

Hi kc,

One of the core tenets of being in a BPD relationship is to not get swept up in what's happening 4 inches above ground. If you can accept her for who she is, then a lot of the pain is going to be at that 4 inch distance.

Being in a BPD relationship means taking the 30,000 foot view. She may come and go, get angry, change her mind, be on again, off again, feel good, feel bad, feel mad, all in a day.  

If you find yourself moving back and forth on the two boards in response to what is happening at the 4 inch view, then that's a sign that you may be reacting to her push/pull.

Turkish's question is a really good one, about accepting her as she is. It sounds like you are all in, knowing what you know about BPD.

And it also sounds like you know where the rubber meets the road in terms of making this relationship work for you.

My suggestion is mostly pragmatic, because when emotions are swirling those pragmatic aids can really help. And that's to check the pattern of your own behavior in terms of whether you see yourself "detaching" or "saving" the relationship in response to her actions.

[SadDaddy]

I'm right there with you right now. We only split up a week ago but we'd been together for ten+ years, and once my indignation faded these thoughts started to pop into my head. Now I'm considering asking if she would come to couples therapy with me. I'm already trying to get in to see a therapist for myself; she accused me of so many things and we were together for so long that I barely know who I am anymore.

I keep thinking that maybe if we go to couples therapy or counseling, and someone else can put into words how we are and what we both think is happening to the other, that the two of us may understand a little better.

Worst case, we get invaluable insight as to our real motives and what we're doing. Best case, we can proceed with something that might someday resemble a healthy relationship.

However, my mind keeps coming back to one thing, the one thing that is making me so hesitant; I did so much for her and she didn't care, generally forgot or threw it back in my face. The medication and the therapy, if she even acknowledges that she has a problem, cannot repair what has been done to her or to us. So, for the rest of our lives together, am I ready to get s*** on at any moment for any decision? Am I ready to have my trust and kindness casually thrown in my face when her mood changes? Am I ready to have to keep fighting for respect and trust, even though that's almost all I've given her through the course of these last five years?

I don't know, and I don't think I'm ready to answer that yet. But what's the harm in asking to go to therapy together, you know?

[Scopikaz]

I'm almost in the exact same situation. Only In my case I think she's using me. Or rather I'm putting myself In a situation to be used. Emotional manipulation of sorts.  I say I love her and accept her for who she is.  I would like to spend my life with her, but yet I know I too should detach.  I keep wondering too About how she will turn out now.  She's frequenting bars.  Friending a lot of bar flies (men and women) on fb. Men look like players.  Women look like users of men. Etc. so either they will keep her down. And she will spiral out of control.  Or she will meet someone and be married within a year.  Who knows.  I guess my point is don't set yourself up to be used like I have. 

[livednlearned]

Switching metaphors from sky to roller coasters  

When she is on the roller coaster, job #1 for you is to stay grounded. This can with the help of any of the tools or skills learned on saving or detaching. Because staying grounded is about staying grounded. It's for you, and it's necessary in these relationships, whether you maintain a friendship or become a romantic partner.

If you notice that when she's on the emotional roller coaster, you need Detaching skills, that's ok. If you notice that when she gets off the roller coaster, you need Saving skills, that's ok.

The point is to recognize that both will help you. Dealing with abandonment anxiety when the relationship is in full swing is just as helpful as when the relationship is on the verge of cooling down. Sometimes the effects of abandonment anxiety (neediness, clinginess, obsession, rumination) can drive partners apart. The part I was trying to flag is that sometimes we react to the 4-inch view and may use the boards in desperate ways while our feelings are on tilt, and that's probably not as helpful or healthy over the long term.

I think it was appropriate to let her know you had dates lined up. You are a separate person with your own wants, needs, and desires. It's a sign of strength that you can repair and recover, that she did not destroy you to the point there is nothing left to give. And all things being relative, she handled it to the best of her abilities. Plus, she got to see you being centered, and that's attractive, even if she does not act on it right away.