please help interpret "i can't touch you"

[Depression = 72% of members]

My BPDw said tonight she often wakes in the middle of the night and looks at me sleeping and wants to cuddle me- to be close-but she doesn't because that's only physical closeness not emotional.  She says she feels she can't touch me.  She can't buy me gifts or say nice things to make me feel good. She says she doesn't feel like she fits in my life. She says i'm always happy and never grieve for our bad relationship.  She says it feels like i don't need her.

Some of this i get.

- i have put in a lot of effort to not need her. I manage the home,  the kids,  the finances.  Every so often i'll ask her to take care of something but most often it'll never get done.  Certainly i no longer need her for my happiness - i manage that myself

- i don't like gifts.  But i do appriciate other things she does for me - and i tell her.  If she makes me lunch (maybe 1/month) i will look her in the eyes and smile and say a sincere thanks.  If she joins the family for an activity i will say " it felt great to have you here". On the rare occausuon she cuddles me or kisses me passionately outside of sex i will grin like a schoolboy and tell her how great that was.

- she doesn't fit in my life because she chooses not to.  I invite her to walk with me,  go to the gym with me,  socialize with me.  She wont. She won't go on dates with me to dinner or shows or friends homes. She only wants to sit on the couch and talk.  But she also gets triggered by most conversation topics so we don't really talk about anything worthy.

Looking at it one way it appears like i've untangled myself from her emotionally.  I am talking care of myself and she is now a part of my life without being all of it.  She probably feels this as distance.  But looking at it another way are we living two separate lives?  Have i detached to much?

What makes me wonder is my first girlfriend 20 yrs ago said the same thing "i see you standing over there on a hill untouchable"

Thoughts?  Thanks

[ArleighBurke]

My BPDw said tonight she often wakes in the middle of the night and looks at me sleeping and wants to cuddle me- to be close-but she doesn't because that's only physical closeness not emotional.  She says she feels she can't touch me.  She can't buy me gifts or say nice things to make me feel good. She says she doesn't feel like she fits in my life. She says i'm always happy and never grieve for our bad relationship.  She says it feels like i don't need her.

Some of this i get.

- i have put in a lot of effort to not need her. I manage the home,  the kids,  the finances.  Every so often i'll ask her to take care of something but most often it'll never get done.  Certainly i no longer need her for my happiness - i manage that myself

- i don't like gifts.  But i do appriciate other things she does for me - and i tell her.  If she makes me lunch (maybe 1/month) i will look her in the eyes and smile and say a sincere thanks.  If she joins the family for an activity i will say " it felt great to have you here". On the rare occausuon she cuddles me or kisses me passionately outside of sex i will grin like a schoolboy and tell her how great that was.

- she doesn't fit in my life because she chooses not to.  I invite her to walk with me,  go to the gym with me,  socialize with me.  She wont. She won't go on dates with me to dinner or shows or friends homes. She only wants to sit on the couch and talk.  But she also gets triggered by most conversation topics so we don't really talk about anything worthy.

Looking at it one way it appears like i've untangled myself from her emotionally.  I am talking care of myself and she is now a part of my life without being all of it.  She probably feels this as distance.  But looking at it another way are we living two separate lives?  Have i detached to much?

What makes me wonder is my first girlfriend 20 yrs ago said the same thing "i see you standing over there on a hill untouchable"

Thoughts?  Thanks

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[sweetheart]

Hi ArleighBurke, it sounds like from what you've written that you have already interpreted what your wife means.

I understand where you're at, and I had found myself questioning whether I had disengaged too far. My h like your w sensed the distance and it felt like he drew further away. I realised for my h, that he didn't know how to reach back across the void. So because I'm Staying and wanted to improve my marriage, I was happy to show him the way. I don't know how far he'll follow or what where we'll end up. For us though I realised and accept that my dBPDh doesn't have the emotional capacity or emotional understanding to navigate this change in me without my help.


I was wondering what you said in response to your wife when she said this, did you use this as an opportunity to validate how she is feeling?

How do you feel about this sort of nuanced emotional navigation?

I believe that validating and understanding in these moments, when the pwBPD senses the changes in you can really help you both start to reconnect emotionally again.

It's a slow precarious process, but for my marriage there are some glimmers of light.

[an0ught]

Hi ArleighBurke,

please help interpret "i can't touch you"

Anxiety.

I believe in the process of reshaping our relationships we go through phases. A lot of this board is about recovery from a totally broken dynamic - learning validation, getting boundaries in place and becoming more resilient. Both sides learning to be stronger individuals and operate more independently.

This gets us to a healthier place. To improve upon that we need then at times look at additional aspects, may assign different priorities and use different tools.

We talk a lot here about how to put up boundaries. How important it is to protect them. Draw a clear line. Have the means to protect them. Protect them consistently as otherwise we deal not just with an extinction burst but with prolonged behavior driven by intermittent re-enforcement. This is all true and valid for 100% board members at the beginning.


We talk a lot less here about how to cross boundaries. How to negotiate boundaries. How to rebuild trust. How to dare to be vulnerable. How to have something shared. Some of the behavior needed there goes beyond the LESSONS.


She has learned that you can be tough to deal with Now she needs to re-learn that you are safe and pleasant to deal with. Maybe you need to find areas where you rely on her help - not because you could not do it yourself but some interdependence creates a shared ego and if proven reliable build trust. Maybe you need to share some weakness and risk it being exploited. Maybe you have to deal with some boundary violation differently and take a less straight defensive stance. Maybe you need some external drama you two overcome together where you can exercise together boundaries and define yourself anew as a couple.

[Euler2718]

My ex brought chapstick with her and put it on me. She cleaned my sunglasses before I put them on. She decided to hug me at the start and end of every day we spent together.

These were things she could do and she came up with them on her own. I think the deal was this: she couldn't do almost anything for me (couldn't love consistently, couldn't stay stable, couldn't be nurturing on most occasions) but still wanted to feel "girl-friendy", so she came up with these thing.

I would say, ask her for help with small things, or go to light, airy places -- we used to hike (where there's no pressure to talk, and also no one to be jealous of) as a general suggestion. But, in your case, she may not want to (you said she makes your lunch only like 1/month and she won't go anywhere) -- so it may prove discouraging.