Advice on communication skills and boundaries

[Lollypop]

Hi

I would welcome any constructive criticism about my skills at dealing with my BPDs during a conversation today. I'm trying hard to learn new skills but feeling lost.

Background:

Bpds 25 who is quiet BPD with no rages. Returned home mid-Dec, diagnosed sept 15. Lives at home rent free, started casual work 6 weeks ago. Has been low for about 5 days, no work available.  Bpds agreed 12 days ago to give me a minimum amount of £100 pm; this would be saved until he leaves (he wants to return to California). If he decides not to go back to Cali then we would sit down at the time of him leaving home and agree how much I should keep towards his living costs. I have asked him a few times about when he gets paid. Bpds only sleeps at our home and eats breakfast only. Bpds self medicates with weed. We have told him we don't condone this and we think therapy and dealing with his addiction issues should be his priority, he needs to break the cycle, but we accept he makes his own decisions.

Bpds has re-arranged 2 mental health assessments, third appointment next  Tuesday.

Today:

Bpds gets up about 11.30 comes downstairs to find me working at the kitchen table (manual work).

I greet him with a smile and ask how he is. "I'm ok thanks, how are you?" I reply that I'm ok too. He has a cigarette at the back door then Goes upstairs and has a shower. He then gets his breakfast which he takes to his room. I wait, go up and see my younger son and casually ask Bpds to speak to me this morning before he Makes his plans for the day. Bpds says slightly irritated "I've got no plans for today". I say ok and go back downstairs. I carry on working, he doesn't appear. After about 30 minutes I go up and say "I'd really appreciate it if you could come talk to me while I work, it's important to me, so if you could pop down I'd be grateful." He takes off his headphones and follows me downstairs.

I open the conversation with "I'm sorry that I keep wanting to talk to you and I realise that you must be a bit fed up of it but I wanted to apologise." He starts biting his finger nails. He asks what for. I then explain that about 3 weeks ago we talked about his problems and I've been thinking about that and I now understand that I was wrong to tell him what his problems are as he's completely aware of them already. I then recounted the conversation and reminded him that he'd said he didn't see getting therapy or dealing with his addiction issues as a priority. He said then that his priority was to work and save money up so he could leave. That he would deal with therapy and addiction issues at a later time. I asked Bpds if he still felt the same way. He said "yeah, I've got no faith in therapy in the uk, it'll be useless". I tell him that we're both really learning a lot and there's still so much more to learn and we want him to know that we understand that he's got so much stuff going on in his head and that it must be very overwhelming for him. I then ask him if he's been paid and he tells me that he doesn't know. I say "well, you should be giving me some money today". He asks what for. I tell him "we agreed three weeks ago in the car when I picked you up from work, you'd give me a minimum of £100 each month, you can obviously give me a lot more if you wanted to save more". He said "I can't remember, I've got a selective memory". I said "oh ok, well if you remember... .". I then recalled the conversation and he starts to nod "I remember now". I then tell him he could check his balance today on his mobile phone and do the transfer. Bpds says "I can't do that today". I then say "I'm a bit confused because... ." He interrupts me and says "I know you're confused". I politely remind him that he's interrupted me "no, I'm a bit confused because you've said you want to go back to the USA but you're actions don't back that up". Bpds said "no I know that, that's always been a problem, you know that already". Bpds says that he's feeling really bad today.  I re-emphasise my understanding of how he's feeling right now but it's actually quite simple and would only take a few minutes of him time. I suggested that if he did the transfer like he said he was going to then he may actually feel a lot better. He moves towards the door and says "I'm not doing any transfer today, I'll do it Monday." I tell him I just don't understand and he says that it's really complicated, he just can't explain, if he tried to explain he'd be stood in the kitchen for the next 25 years. I remind him that I'm in college on Monday and that he needs my bank details. He then tells me that he's working on Monday and Tuesday. (This is news to me, plus another failed assessment appointment (3 in 6 weeks) I tell him that he won't do it on Monday then if he's working (he always goes out straight away for weed after work). Bpds says "I'll do it Sunday night then". I tell him "well, that won't work because you always get in so late. I don't see it as being that complicated but I understand that he may find it so." Bpds was getting angry. I told him I didn't want to have an argument and he agreed he didn't either. He was getting agitated and rubbing his face. I tried to get him to open up and explain what part of this is challenging to him. I asked was it that he needed more time to think about how much, or was he in trouble with the bank, or perhaps owed money to a dealer or a friend. Bpds said "no, it's just so complicated and I can't explain". I said to him "well, to save any confusion or wasting emotional energies I think you should do the transfer on Monday at 6pm, after you've eaten and before you go out. This will save me from feeling uncertain about the situation and you will know what you need to do by when". He agreed and walked upstairs.

His dad came in and I told him about the conversation. His dad got angry and then nearly cried. He's at the end of patience and wants him gone out of our house. I do too.

Bpds popped his head around the door about 30 minutes later and told me he was going out and where he was going. (This is new!). I called him back at the door and he came back. I asked Bpds if he felt he was able to work as if he wasn't then this may be an option. He said firmly "I'm able to work" I said "that's good then".

All advice and any comments gratefully received.  We are wondering if we are completely mad in dealing with this situation like this. We feel that we should just kick him out but we're scared of what he may do. I feel that what Bpds is silently saying through his actions is "take care of me". I'm not prepared to enable him in this any more but am trying so very hard to learn the skills I need quickly. It's all just so overwhelming.

Thanks for reading

L

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rockieplace]

Oh dear.  I feel for you.  It is so hard to know if what we are doing is helping or harming, isn't it?  I'm afraid that, after reading your post a couple of times, I'm still not at all sure what to say.  It is like trying to nail down smoke isn't it?  I would assume that he didn't want to give you money before the weekend so that he could spend it on drugs? When drugs are the issue it is almost impossible to handle in my experience and your son sounds as if, rather than outright lying to you, he is being disingenuous and vague in his answers instead.

You sounded so reasonable and controlled in your discussion with your son.  It must have been so hard. 

I think that both you and his dad should only speak to him together so that he can't divide and rule though.  This has happened a lot with my daughter. I think that you really know what is required but doing it is going to take both of you together to be strong for each other.

Other than that I can just say hugs and stuff!  

[lbjnltx]

I have found it most helpful in communicating with my daughter to:

Be brief

Not use the word "should"

Remind her only once of an established agreement that we made together

State my expectation that she honor our agreement and then end the conversation

Wait... .wait... .wait... .Did she honor our agreement?  If not, we have a conversation about our agreement and I ask her "do we need to revisit our agreement or are you prepared to honor it now?"

Many times in her younger years she would say "I lied" when I would remind her of our agreement.  Then whatever the consequences of violating said agreement would come into play.

Rock solid, sky high, thick concrete boundaries in the form of consequences... .every ... .single... .time.

[wendydarling]

Hi Lollypop

I agree with lbj - a short agreement of '£100 on xx day' and reminder the day ahead. One thing for your son to think about and try to deliver. Acknowledge he is trying.

I've learnt our BPDs can become overwhelmed by too many conversations, requests and expectations of them. Your son said  'I can't do that today', is he overwhelmed? I think he likely is, by his own demands, California, independence, mental health stigma, no treatment (yet), being accepted for who he is, not feeling safe... .

If you strip away your sons drug use, behaviour and his struggles to be an independent adult, who do you see? Who is he?

Back soon.

WDX

[Lollypop]

Hi

Thank you. Very good advice.

I particularly like "thick concrete boundaries", I understand and will try formalising agreement and wording, keep it brief.

Thanks WD. I had to think twice about "who he is" underneath. A bright, caring, philosophical and very good looking young man who loves history. He doesn't yet know his own strength.

My husband feels that everything has been washed away, there's hardly any of him left any more. I know how he feels. Bpds is empty but filled with chaos.

Thanks again. I will try an adapt.

L

[Lollypop]

Hi

Just to let you know the money was handed over without any problems. First time ever that BPDs has saved!

I reflected on your comments as realised I'd had three conversations with him over a short period of time because I could see he was really struggling with a low mood. Trying to make it better - again! I think some of it actually went in because there's other changes.

He's better this week and I can see his mood his directly linked to "prospect of work" and "no prospect".

Other positives:

1. He's put credit in his phone so he can call if he needs a lift

2. He called and found I was still in college and so told me he'd get the bus home (which he did)

3. Organised a lift with somebody else this morning

AND

4. Bpds shared how ridiculous it is that he still hasn't managed to get his telephone assessment. It was due today but he's working. I casually suggested that he could call them up and ask for a face to face session and he said surprised I didn't know I could do that. I said "oh yeah, when I called them up to complain they said you could, it takes longer maybe about 4 weeks but you can." The ball's in his court!

Anyway, full weeks work this week so BPDs most probably in a stable mood. I've decided not to initiate any conversation about BPD for a while as I hardly see him, so I don't want every time to be about BPD.

I'm going to be as light as a fairy but with concrete boundaries!

Thanks for your support

L

[wendydarling]

That's wonderful news Lollypop, your skills and approach is paying off, no pun intended    though I'm protecting my sense of humour and fun, got be done 

I'm so pleased for you both. It's really interesting to read the steps you are taking, how you are building your son's trust overtime, it appears he recognises you are on his side, being clear with boundaries and keeping it very simple - he is opening up a bit, responding. Yes, we have good weeks and down weeks, that is real. I have found I'm a simple guiding signpost to treatment and also when surfing the waiting list time, keep to the left   

Do you think through contributing to the home finances your son's self esteem has/will soar?

You are so right, BPD consumes too much of our space especially at crisis time. Do you share your son's interest in history? Just thinking how you can have occasional quality 'down time' together, watch a history programme etc a bit of gentle normality, as you say not based around BPD.  My daughter and I have shared a life long love of the arts, it provides us both a rest bite.

I believe a face to face assessment is well worth the wait, do you? - validation, communication face to face is important, we are humans. Sounds like that is your sons preference. I'd go with that too. Once assessed your son might consider enquiring about the waiting list time. Of course they have to build in contingency time. I wonder why an 12-18 month waiting list has ended up at 8 months for my daughter? Is it because there is a large patient drop out where I live in the big city? In hindsight I wish I'd had the knowledge I have now to ask whether the timeline was a realistic one. Time is of the essence.

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

Bpds said he's rearranged his assessment for Monday.

I'd dearly love to spend some time with him. I could ask but I think he'd say no. I've got my m-in-law coming on Friday to stay as its her birthday so he's agreed to go out for a family meal.

I'm doing an Access course Art & Design and signed up to start my degree in sept. This has been life changing. I absolutely love it. Not only therapeutic and a way to focus my energies (on myself) I love the learning and don't want to stop. I'm living - finally. Both my sons are very interested and I would go so far as to say proud. Im hopefully demonstrating it's never too late.

You're doing marvellously and I thank you for your kind advice and sharing your story. Hindsight is a funny thing, we'd rather not have it but get it right first time.  still it's a massive learning curve and it's not easy to think logically and with foresight when emotional. Just like our BPD loved ones!

I hope that my BPDs gets the courage your daughter has. It's all a process and I took heart from your words "see that he's doing his best"

L

[lbjnltx]

It's all a process and I took heart from your words "see that he's doing his best"

L

One of the basic beliefs we can establish to self soothe is found in DBT... .

"We are all doing the best we can and we need to work harder"

This is especially difficult to remember in times of crisis... .we all have our triggers.

It helped me to tie my trigger to this belief.  I did this through internal conversations with myself, telling myself over and over "When she dysregulates she is doing the best she can in the moment, I am doing the best I can in the moment and we both need to work harder".

During times of conflict/crisis the words come to my mind and it helps me not join in the crisis, not become dysregulated myself and the "... .work harder" part triggered my memory of the knowledge and success of the skills I learned and that I knew she had learned... .It also helped me stay compassionate rather than become angry and fearful.

Maybe it will work for you as well.

[wendydarling]

Busy, busy week... .LP

Daughter is home for one night, I'm on guard to ensure she does not harm.

We love our family celebration birthday lunches. Wishing your MIL a very happy birthday and you all have fun!


WDx