Make up/reconcile question

[Depression = 72% of members]

I had a very intensive 4 weeks holiday with my exGF who I assume had these BPD issues. Right after the holidays, she felt a lot of 'abandonment fears which she compensated by going out, throwing herself at other guys, getting attention and denying our relationship infront of her friends and some men to show them 'I am available', 'it's done with him'. The same night, she came home and texted me how much she loves me. Weird! I found out about it and dumped her.

Now, the question. She talked me in to give her a chance to win me back. so on the day of my arrival, I expected some explanation, a cooked dinner, honest regret. Instead, she got prepared for having sex. Almost immediately after I opened the door to the apartment. I even received a text while on my walk to the house, she asked how many minutes she has left until my arrival to quickly take a shower along with big smileys like ;-)

My interpretation of this behavior is rather, she wants to gain control back over me, avoid the talking and just get me back hooked? How would you guys normaly say 'I am sorry for what I have done'. By jumping to bed immediately?

[sebastian.l]

I had a very intensive 4 weeks holiday with my exGF who I assume had these BPD issues. Right after the holidays, she felt a lot of 'abandonment fears which she compensated by going out, throwing herself at other guys, getting attention and denying our relationship infront of her friends and some men to show them 'I am available', 'it's done with him'. The same night, she came home and texted me how much she loves me. Weird! I found out about it and dumped her.

Now, the question. She talked me in to give her a chance to win me back. so on the day of my arrival, I expected some explanation, a cooked dinner, honest regret. Instead, she got prepared for having sex. Almost immediately after I opened the door to the apartment. I even received a text while on my walk to the house, she asked how many minutes she has left until my arrival to quickly take a shower along with big smileys like ;-)

My interpretation of this behavior is rather, she wants to gain control back over me, avoid the talking and just get me back hooked? How would you guys normaly say 'I am sorry for what I have done'. By jumping to bed immediately?

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[livednlearned]

Hi sebastian.l,

People with BPD experience a huge amount of shame -- it's one of the core aspects of the disorder. If you've ever experienced shame, multiply it by a thousand and then add to that impulsivity and emotions that can rocket up and down. She is doing the best she can with the limitations she experiences being BPD.

Apologies are hard when you are drowning in shame. It doesn't mean it's right, only that she is doing the best she can. If you want her back, you'll have to be the emotionally mature person and accept that she feels shame for her behavior, but lacks the skills and emotional control to make amends with an apology.

Somewhat related -- she likely does want to feel in control, which is a little different than wanting to control you. If she is like a lot of people with BPD, she feels a lot of anxiety and getting through the day is an effort. People who experience anxiety are constantly trying to control the environment to cope. It's up to us to recognize this and then have boundaries we set in order to protect our own sense of self. For example, validating their need for control, while also not participating if it violates our boundaries.

[sebastian.l]

Apologies are hard when you are drowning in shame. It doesn't mean it's right, only that she is doing the best she can.

Somewhat related -- she likely does want to feel in control, which is a little different than wanting to control you. If she is like a lot of people with BPD, she feels a lot of anxiety and getting through the day is an effort. People who experience anxiety are constantly trying to control the environment to cope.

Thanks for this explanation. My reaction to shame would be saying sorry, but I understand it's very hard to go on with a lot of shame X 1000. Especially must seeing my face bring back the shameful action, every time she sees me.

I think, what I expected was to hear the story why she cheated, like the reason what goes wrong in our r/s. What I got was just a 'I am sorry, I know it was wrong.' Of course, this didn't give me my trust back. So, I put her through some tests and asked her to delete the guys number, Facebook and tell him off. She didn't do it, said this would not be necessary, he would mean nothing to her.

Well, there went the last little bit of my trust ... .

[livednlearned]

Getting her to explain why she hooked up with another guy is complicated with BPD.

She doesn't have a stable sense of self -- it's hard to imagine what that is like when you don't have BPD. Some researchers say it's like an abandonment of individuation, where she doesn't have a stable self. So when someone with BPD feels engulfed (too much intimacy, too vulnerable, too close to someone) they can pull away. Or when someone feels abandoned (this can be over small things like going out with friends, not paying full attention), they can feel the need to find attention with someone else.

She may not be able to explain it to you.

It's a lot of emotional instability, and fear.

[sebastian.l]

Yes, thanks for the good words and insights. Unfortunately, I am just a very analytical dude who is digging pretty deep holes with questioning... .that was not a good combination.

But this describes pretty much 100% the state of feelings that I saw in her eyes. She had a lot of times when she tried to open up to me. I saw how hard it was for her. I saw her fear of being seen as 'sick' and abandoned. The most she could reveal was 'you know, sometimes I am not this self-confident person I seem to be'. I know she was diagnosed as bi-polar when a teen. This day, I wish I had known this info yet or someone professional to ask.

During the betrayal, she had a huge manic phase - could had been a masquerade as well - she pushed me as far as she could, after giving me a hint in a text one day: 'I'm sad now but it doesn't make sense to put up my wall now. Cause you'll be here soon and then I have to take it down again. With the wall it's not so hard to not have you here.'

Then the pushing started gradually.

And ended in a total break down, when she was sitting on the floor, just saying: 'make me feel anything, just anything, I don't feel myself anymore'. It's really hard for another person to empathy what must going on in her at that moment.

Until today, I blame myself for causing this pain. I wanted to be close with her, know her story, and support. The more intimate I came towards seeing all of her, the more pain I caused

[Georgina T]

Until today, I blame myself for causing this pain. I wanted to be close with her, know her story, and support. The more intimate I came towards seeing all of her, the more pain I caused[/quote]
Two things: please don't blame yourself, you are not causing any pain. It is her condition that does

Secondly, have you discussed with her if she is willing to go to therapy?

If you decide to stay and pursue this relationship, you need to understand that her behavior is not personal to you. She can't help it. She needs help but she needs to want to be helped. You can be patient, resilient, confident, strong, be sensitive to her extreme sensitivity if you want, but you must not ever blame yourself. It is not your fault

[sebastian.l]

Secondly, have you discussed with her if she is willing to go to therapy?

The last time she stepped out of our relationship with another guy, she referred to her best friend who is 26 year old psychiatrist. She asked for contacts and therapy options. Her friend points her in the direction that her behavior is out of normal, follows a pattern and is related to a specific feeling. On the other hand, as a friend she validates her 'crazy' ways.

Her mother plays a huge role in 'therapy talks' and her coping, don't know which one though. Her mother is very negative and I notice a huge change every time she talks to her. When she comes from her mothers, usually her mind is over with doubts and obstacles e.g. language, distance, my family, culture - referring to us having different nationalities. This never used to be a problem for us.

Her mother told her right in the beginning: 'See when you stay with Sebastian, you have to realize, he will die a lot of time before you and you will have to stay alone for a long time'. Refers to our age difference of 10 years (26-36). Not only I felt really insulted by 'making me die early, I also thought saying this is really stupid, for nobody knows when one dies and we started a relationship as 2 young people. Who thinks about dying at this point? After learning about BPD, it is even more to worry, since this sentence targets 100% her abandonment fears. And if the mother knows about her daughter's condition, she does it deliberately. Which means she manipulates her daughter. That's severe.

I don't think she followed through on therapy, but rather chose the 'easy' way out. Last time we talked she wanted to get a 'tattoo' with 2 broken Triangels and saw herself as broken, not good enough for me, not able to make me happy again. The she said have fun with another girl, I deserved it. recently I saw a pic of her over happy kissing another guy in a club.

So I guess... .no therapy

[Georgina T]

From what you say, it is clear that her mother is very manipulative, maybe with a personality disorder herself, or at least strong traits... .If your girlfriend is not willing to go to therapy then it is highly unlikely that her behavior will not change... .I am sorry to say that. Of course no one person is the same to the other but BPD doesn't subside on its own, no personality disorder does... .I don't think so.

I strongly advise to consider yourself and your well-being above all

You know, borderline females from what I read, do want strong firm men who don't succumb to their manipulative tactics...

Perhaps if she insists that she wants to be with you, you may want to consider telling her that you are willing to consider it if she starts therapy (and not with a friend). If she does, whether you stay together or not, it will be to her benefit and you will have helped her tremendously.

Of course the decision is yours, but whatever you decide it should be from love and respect, both for yourself and her sake, and not out of guilt because you may feel that if you leave her she will hurt herself. She might hurt herself irrespective if you leave or stay if she doesn't go to therapy

[Georgina T]

And again, a last word... .You didnt cause her pain. Don't think that. The more intimate you became the better positioned you were to see her pain. You didn't cause it. The pain pre-dated you a very long time... .

[sebastian.l]

Thanks for your words Georgina. I certainly agree that her mother at least helps to draw a negative scenario in the daughter's head. If she suffers from BPD, she's very open for this distortion of our future.

Just to clarify 'my blaming issues'. After 1 year r/s we had to go into long distance r/s and saw each other every 2 weeks. This caused her a lot of anxiety. I blame myself for not having ended the r/s, when I saw, the distance makes her suffer with every day she loved/missed/waiting for me more (pull) and every time I was present, she build up the wall a little higher (push).

It's over for some weeks. And I see her 'happy' on some facebook pics with other guys. So I blame myself, that I kept her in this miserable long distance situation.

[Georgina T]

Hi Sebastian, yes I see your point. Distance for her could intensify her abandonment fears.

But again, she put up the high walls when you were together, not when you were apart... .

Also, on the fb pictures, I wouldnt read much into it. BPD use fb like teenagers... .maybe these pics were an effort from her part to 'get back at you'. It certainly doesnt mean she was unhappy b/c you were away and now miraculously she is all happy and shining.

[sebastian.l]

well I think her needs are better met now with the new guy who lives around her city. So she seems happier.

Of course this hurts after all I have done for this r/s. But I have to stay realistic. For me, it does not make sense to follow a woman to another city, change my life, my job, when she shows these kind of traits and has the potential power to hurt and dump me - BPD or not. The risk is too high, even though, I have to admit I miss her, especially because I went in no contact at all because I actually wanted to avoid seeing her with others, which now happened.

[tryingsome]

Of course this hurts after all I have done for this r/s

Here is the life lesson I took. When you look back, you see how much you have done was so out of place.

So out of place, that a normal person wouldn't have given as much as we had given.

Whether that be financially, emotionally, or even stability, I think as non's (or codependents) we were way out of wack.

I take that forward to any future relationship. Here is where I begin and end. This is my boundary (for it gets really blurry with a pwBPD).

[sebastian.l]

The more I read here, I come down to 2 fundamental questions:

1. why seems that romantic relationships have the character of a 'fight' rather than a 'together'?

2. why is that people take vulnerable characters as an invitation to hit you badly on the head - even more than you already have taken? Vulnerability seems to be a free entrance to hurt more or disvalue somebody feeling hurt.

[livednlearned]

The more I read here, I come down to 2 fundamental questions:

1. why seems that romantic relationships have the character of a 'fight' rather than a 'together'?

2. why is that people take vulnerable characters as an invitation to hit you badly on the head - even more than you already have taken? Vulnerability seems to be a free entrance to hurt more or disvalue somebody feeling hurt.

Great questions.

Do you mean romantic relationships with BPD partners in particular?