What to do - NC

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi there,

My ex husband and I separated almost two months ago. We've had minimal contact since then and when we did it was to discuss our separation and legal rights.

We haven't spoken in two weeks. It's hard, but I can't do this to myself. This is for the best. He sent me a random text this morning asking how I was - it had nothing to do with what I told him I was willing to discuss which is seperation papers.

I'm tempted to respond with how is Tinder going? I'm tempted to respond with anything.  I miss him. My heart is shattered. That being said, I also know this text is his intro to another one that I'm bound to receive if I don't respond to the first one asking me if he has any mail.

Any input is appreciated. I can't hide the fact that he has mail coming, but I also don't care to answer pity how are you texts.

[Mels]

Hi there,

My ex husband and I separated almost two months ago. We've had minimal contact since then and when we did it was to discuss our separation and legal rights.

We haven't spoken in two weeks. It's hard, but I can't do this to myself. This is for the best. He sent me a random text this morning asking how I was - it had nothing to do with what I told him I was willing to discuss which is seperation papers.

I'm tempted to respond with how is Tinder going? I'm tempted to respond with anything.  I miss him. My heart is shattered. That being said, I also know this text is his intro to another one that I'm bound to receive if I don't respond to the first one asking me if he has any mail.

Any input is appreciated. I can't hide the fact that he has mail coming, but I also don't care to answer pity how are you texts.

[bschooled]

I swear, If I had one wish, it would be to have the answer to this very question. I can only give you advice based on my experience, after the 4,783 (or so) times I was in the same situation and didn't learn from my mistakes.

After a certain length of time would pass (2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months-depending on

the severity), I would receive a text saying "I miss you" or "How are you?". Always the same. The more painful the breakup or fight, the longer it would take for him to text. In his mind, the more time that passed the more I would forget. He lived by the saying "Time heals all wounds". He couldn't face his actions, the shame was too overwhelming. (It was crazy, I could physically see the pain and fear he felt in his expression the few times he was forced to confront his mistakes.)

Long story short, I tried everything. If I played along and pretended to have amnesia, he didn't have to be held accountable and my feelings ceased to matter. If I was sarcastic or made some biting remark, that became the fuel for his anger and suddenly my attitude was to blame for everything. If said we needed to meet and talk about what happened (which is what I did more often than not), he would agree wholeheartedly, but every single time he would somehow manipulate the conversation and make false promises or play up on my sympathies.

The only thing that has ever worked in my case is to not respond to his attempts to engage in conversation. It's not easy to do, especially

When it's someone you love more than anything. Even now (2 months after the last time I broke down and gave in) I struggle at times. If I'm feeling especially weak I block his number. 

Because he is so used to me reaching out and trying to "fix things" or get closure, not replying is the only reply that has given me any positive results.

At first I would always give in and respond, mostly because the thought of making him feel abandoned/ignored was too heartbreaking to consider. But now I realize that nothing I say is going to change his personality. And according to my friends' therapist, by not detaching and giving him a chance to experience the repercussions of his choices,  I may actually be hurting him more than helping him.

[JQ]

Hi Mels, 

Since this is your 4th post let me be one of the first to say welcome and I'm glad you found us.  It's tough to go through what a NON goes through when they'r separating from someone who has a very serious Cluster B mental illness ... .and sometimes the only people that will really ... .REALLY understand is some other NON who has been where you're at ... .gone through what you are and came out the other side.  And you will too!  You will have good days, some so so days and a bad day or two ... .but as time passes and you take back control of your mind, body, soul & your heart ... .you'll have more good days then bad days.  I'm glad you reached out to us ... . 

First things first ... .lets get this mail texting thing out of the way. YOU can go online and forward his mail to his current address! Quick painless!  You can set it up permanently or in 6 month increments. If he moves after that then it's up to him to change his address.  So ... .easy peasy question on that one 

You can block his number to any further texting or calls ... .this will help you in your healing process. Speaking of healing ... .you need to take care of your YOU because no one else is going to do it.  YOU need to take control of YOUR life!  Do not let him manipulate, control, demean, devalue, or rage at you any more!   

Know that BPD is a very VERY serious Cluster B mental illness and nothing now and nothing in the future will make logical sense. Don't try to get an apology, questions answered, or closure ... .BPD pretty much lack the ability to do any of those things.  Some have NPD in addition to BPD and forget about anything resembling any true caring about you.

But lets concentrate on a couple of other things for you. YOU need to get out for a walk, bike ride something physical because that will help you burn off the stress & anxiety that you're feeling.  You're probably not sleeping well ... .so go to the grocery store and in the vitamin isle pick up a bottle of Melatonin ... .10mg tablets ... .I take 3 of them and they help me get to a sleepy point. DONT WORRY it's not a drug ... .the body produces this hormone to help you fall asleep but when you're under  a lot of stress like you are it isn't enough. And REM sleep is so important to repair your body & mind to get through the day.  Make sure you're eating right ... .I know junk food sounds good & is easy but nothing good comes from junk food ... .not even your poo     Keep your sense of humor!  A good sense of humor will help you get through the challenges of the day.  Call an old friend you've lost contact with to catch up. Go to a movie ... .matinee ... .I take myself at least once a week if the movies are decent.      Get together with a friend ... .go for a burger & a beer once a week ... .or a salad and a glass of water ... .or Italian & a glass of wine. 

I made a challenge last week to a few people on a string ... .no matter where you live there is a place that you can think of that would be very cool to watch the sunrise come up ... .from the small town to a big city or even your back porch.  Get up 30-45 minutes before the sunrise ... .take a quick shower ... .fix a cup of coffee ... .tea ... or hot chocolate ... .go to your spot ... .and watch the night sky slowly give way to the morning sun. Watch the pinks, oranges, yellows, against the blue sky get brighter and brighter and know that this is the start to a new life! This is the start where you won't let anyone intimidate you, mentally, physically, emotionally, abuse you. This is the day that you take control back of your life!  This is the day Mels!

Come back here as often as you need to ... .as much as you want too!  WE can't walk your journey for you ... .but we'll be there to pick you up when you stumble to dust you off and straighten you up so you can continue you journey.

You got this !

JQ

I know what you're going through is tough ... .but we've been there ... .and it does get better.

[Mels]

I swear, If I had one wish, it would be to have the answer to this very question. I can only give you advice based on my experience, after the 4,783 (or so) times I was in the same situation and didn't learn from my mistakes.

After a certain length of time would pass (2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months-depending on

the severity), I would receive a text saying "I miss you" or "How are you?". Always the same. The more painful the breakup or fight, the longer it would take for him to text. In his mind, the more time that passed the more I would forget. He lived by the saying "Time heals all wounds". He couldn't face his actions, the shame was too overwhelming. (It was crazy, I could physically see the pain and fear he felt in his expression the few times he was forced to confront his mistakes.)

Long story short, I tried everything. If I played along and pretended to have amnesia, he didn't have to be held accountable and my feelings ceased to matter. If I was sarcastic or made some biting remark, that became the fuel for his anger and suddenly my attitude was to blame for everything. If said we needed to meet and talk about what happened (which is what I did more often than not), he would agree wholeheartedly, but every single time he would somehow manipulate the conversation and make false promises or play up on my sympathies.

The only thing that has ever worked in my case is to not respond to his attempts to engage in conversation. It's not easy to do, especially

When it's someone you love more than anything. Even now (2 months after the last time I broke down and gave in) I struggle at times. If I'm feeling especially weak I block his number. 

Because he is so used to me reaching out and trying to "fix things" or get closure, not replying is the only reply that has given me any positive results.

At first I would always give in and respond, mostly because the thought of making him feel abandoned/ignored was too heartbreaking to consider. But now I realize that nothing I say is going to change his personality. And according to my friends' therapist, by not detaching and giving him a chance to experience the repercussions of his choices,  I may actually be hurting him more than helping him.

I'm sorry for not responding sooner.

I relate 110%.

The warning signs were there early, but I was so dazzled by his perfect charming irresistible facade that I simply ignored it all. He had all of the qualities that I had been searching for. He was confident, intelligent, successful, good looking, socially skilled. If I knew at 23 what I know at 31, things would have played out very differently.

I now doubt every single moment we spent together. The fact that someone can disconnect and move on as if WE were nothing to him is hurtful beyond comprehension (at the moment).

I have been unhappy for a few years, but I would always picture the hurt little boy inside. I wanted to be what he needed. I felt guilty just “throwing away” a complicated difficult person. I wanted him to know that he could count on me so I stupidly sacrificed my own happiness. When I needed him, he left.  This has been quite difficult to process, but I know I deserve A LOT more.

[Mels]

Hi Mels, 

Since this is your 4th post let me be one of the first to say welcome and I'm glad you found us.  It's tough to go through what a NON goes through when they'r separating from someone who has a very serious Cluster B mental illness ... .and sometimes the only people that will really ... .REALLY understand is some other NON who has been where you're at ... .gone through what you are and came out the other side.  And you will too~!  You will have good days, some so so days and a bad day or two ... .but as time passes and you take back control of your mind, body, soul & your heart ... .you'll have more good days then bad days.  I'm glad you reached out to us ... . 

First things first ... .lets get this mail texting thing out of the way. YOU can go online and forward his mail to his current address~! Quick painless~!  You can set it up permanently or in 6 month increments. If he moves after that then it's up to him to change his address.  So ... .easy peasy question on that one 

You can block his number to any further texting or calls ... .this will help you in your healing process. Speaking of healing ... .you need to take care of your YOU because no one else is going to do it.  YOU need to take control of YOUR life~!  Do not let him manipulate, control, demean, devalue, or rage at you any more~!   

Know that BPD is a very VERY serious Cluster B mental illness and nothing now and nothing in the future will make logical sense. Don't try to get an apology, questions answered, or closure ... .BPD pretty much lack the ability to do any of those things.  Some have NPD in addition to BPD and forget about anything resembling any true caring about you.

But lets concentrate on a couple of other things for you. YOU need to get out for a walk, bike ride something physical because that will help you burn off the stress & anxiety that you're feeling.  You're probably not sleeping well ... .so go to the grocery store and in the vitamin isle pick up a bottle of Melatonin ... .10mg tablets ... .I take 3 of them and they help me get to a sleepy point. DONT WORRY it's not a drug ... .the body produces this hormone to help you fall asleep but when you're under  a lot of stress like you are it isn't enough. And REM sleep is so important to repair your body & mind to get through the day.  Make sure you're eating right ... .I know junk food sounds good & is easy but nothing good comes from junk food ... .not even your poo     Keep your sense of humor~!  A good sense of humor will help you get through the challenges of the day.  Call an old friend you've lost contact with to catch up. Go to a movie ... .matinee ... .I take myself at least once a week if the movies are decent.      Get together with a friend ... .go for a burger & a beer once a week ... .or a salad and a glass of water ... .or Italian & a glass of wine. 

I made a challenge last week to a few people on a string ... .no matter where you live there is a place that you can think of that would be very cool to watch the sunrise come up ... .from the small town to a big city or even your back porch.  Get up 30-45 minutes before the sunrise ... .take a quick shower ... .fix a cup of coffee ... .tea ... or hot chocolate ... .go to your spot ... .and watch the night sky slowly give way to the morning sun. Watch the pinks, oranges, yellows, against the blue sky get brighter and brighter and know that this is the start to a new life~! This is the start where you won't let anyone intimidate you, mentally, physically, emotionally, abuse you. This is the day that you take control back of your life~!  This is the day Mels~!

Come back here as often as you need to ... .as much as you want too~!  WE can't walk your journey for you ... .but we'll be there to pick you up when you stumble to dust you off and straighten you up so you can continue you journey.

You got this !

JQ

I know what you're going through is tough ... .but we've been there ... .and it does get better.

Thank you so very much! Your reply made me quite emotional. I really appreciate the e-support.  As I'm sure you know, I have really GREAT days and really ___ty ones. Sometimes all I need is 2-3 minutes to cry it out and I'm back to being me.

He called me 4 times yesterday. I didn't pick up. The 5th time he called, I picked up and asked what he wanted. He asked how I was doing, I just said I have to go. He won't give him his new address. He said he's not ready to share that with me. His ridiculousness is quite comical. I also made it quite clear that if he continues to receive mail here past March, it will be going in the trash. It's in his best interest to change his address ASAP.

This has been a rollercoaster to say the least, but I feel less lonely now than I have in years. I feel sad and content at the same time. I know things will get better. I just wish I could let go of the potential, of us sooner rather than later. That's the hard part.

1 year into our marriage, I was ready to pull the plug. I stayed because I was hoping he'd change. He was  Jekyll and Hyde on a moments notice. Of course I was the crazy one causing problems. When someone tells you that a few times, let alone for a few years, you start believing it.

Yes, I've been trying to keep busy. Even signed up for a 10K run in a few months so I have something to work toward.

I will take you up on that challenge! Will do that first thing tomorrow morning. Thanks, again!

[JQ]

MELS!  

Good to see you     Never apologize for doing what you need to do ... .ok?  We'll be there when you want to reach out. If you want to reach out to someone quicker via email vice the boards you can do that too. just look for the icon.  That person will get a notification their normal email if they set it up right.  

Look at you ... .signed up for a 10K!   Awesome!  Remember it's completing the 10k ... .so pace yourself ... .get your breathing pattern down. There's a book call, "Born to Run" ... .it's really a good read if your serious about running.   When I was in the military I ran more than then I should of ... .at least that's what the doc told me. I would REALLY encourage you to watch these two video's and adjust your form ... .I did and it did awesome things for me. I became quicker & my body didn't hurt nearly as much. A Harvard professor started all of this ... .and I started to run with the 5 finger shoes ... .it took 4 weeks to adjust my walking & running and my calfs were sore from muscles I wasn't using. But now you can get other "minimalistic" shoes like Merrills too.  here are some video's & a couple of websites to help.

www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/4BiomechanicsofFootStrike.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jrnj-7YKZE

https://www.google.com/#q=5+finger+shoes&tbm=shop

https://www.google.com/#tbm=shop&q=minimalist+running+shoes


I want to hear your story on your morning sunrise!  Take you're phone ... .take a picture to remind yourself that there are far bigger & better things in your future & the sunrise will remind you that this is just the start of it!  Tell me all the details ... .the colors ... .the breeze ... .the sounds ... .how you felt that very moment you saw the sun crest ... . 

You can forward his mail to his mother ... .a friend ... .someone if he doesn't pick it up. Technically it's a federal offense ... .you have to be careful ... .don't let him manipulate you into something you don't want to do ... .or that will get you into trouble.  Keep cool ... .block his number if you need too. OORR ... turn your phone down including turning off the vibrate so you're less likely to answer a call or text from him. Especially at night when you're getting your REM sleep.  

You certainly describe the normal behavior of a BPD ... .the crazy train roller coaster ... .or like my mother just did yesterday ... .she opened up the cages on  her flying monkey's expecting me to react & put them back in their cages ... .    Yeah that didn't happen ... .when she was trying to manipulate me, push my boundaries ... .I just simply told her in a calm voice ... .I've got to go ... .have a good night ... .bye. End of conversation ... .you need to put in place boundaries ... .and keep them.

How's the sleeping coming along?  How's junk food junkie inside of you doing?     How's the keeping your sense of humor coming?  id you call an old friend? Did you go get that burger & beer?  .  

You got this MELS!  

Good to hear from you!

J

[Mels]

Update:

I was doing SO WELL. I surprised myself how well I was doing. I didn't want to talk to him, didn't have a desire to talk to him, successfully avoided seeing him on numerous occasions, etc.

We officially operated 3 months today. Where I live, I have to be legally separated for 12 months before filing for  divorce. We are trying to settle all of this (including spousal support) without getting lawyers involved. I don't have an interest in getting half of his money blah blah blah, I just want him out of my life. If we would agree on an earlier date of separation, that would be ideal.

Or so I thought.

We met up over the weekend to discuss all of this. BAD IDEA. A part of me was hoping that it wouldn't go well so that I can continue feeling empowered and content. Instead, our meeting felt too normal. It felt as though nothing ever happened. It felt like we were a couple out for brunch. We joked. We laughed. We got serious. He apologized for a few things he had never even acknowledged before. Now, it's possible that he's full of it. He has heard me say all of this to him before. He could simply be regurgitating my words to appear like he's grown as a person. Or he could be telling the truth. I don't know.

There was no talk of reconciling, of course. However, there was hope. I hate that. I've been a mess since we parted ways. He invited me out for dinner. I declined. He sent a message because his birthday is coming up in a few weeks asking me if I would be interested in going with him to our favourite restaurant. I hesitated and replied later today.

I stupidly said yes. He has yet to reply. I don't know why I did that. The progress that I've made in the last two months is now gone. Gone because he knows that I think there's hope. I don't think he wants to get back together. His ego is fed by him thinking that I still want him.

[Ahoy]

Update:

I was doing SO WELL. I surprised myself how well I was doing. I didn't want to talk to him, didn't have a desire to talk to him, successfully avoided seeing him on numerous occasions, etc.

We officially operated 3 months today. Where I live, I have to be legally separated for 12 months before filing for  divorce. We are trying to settle all of this (including spousal support) without getting lawyers involved. I don't have an interest in getting half of his money blah blah blah, I just want him out of my life. If we would agree on an earlier date of separation, that would be ideal.

Or so I thought.

We met up over the weekend to discuss all of this. BAD IDEA. A part of me was hoping that it wouldn't go well so that I can continue feeling empowered and content. Instead, our meeting felt too normal. It felt as though nothing ever happened. It felt like we were a couple out for brunch. We joked. We laughed. We got serious. He apologized for a few things he had never even acknowledged before. Now, it's possible that he's full of it. He has heard me say all of this to him before. He could simply be regurgitating my words to appear like he's grown as a person. Or he could be telling the truth. I don't know.

There was no talk of reconciling, of course. However, there was hope. I hate that. I've been a mess since we parted ways. He invited me out for dinner. I declined. He sent a message because his birthday is coming up in a few weeks asking me if I would be interested in going with him to our favourite restaurant. I hesitated and replied later today.

I stupidly said yes. He has yet to reply. I don't know why I did that. The progress that I've made in the last two months is now gone. Gone because he knows that I think there's hope. I don't think he wants to get back together. His ego is fed by him thinking that I still want him.

If you 100% truly and sincerely believe he has BPD (and he is undiagnosed/treated) the very sad truth is that everything he is doing is simply to feed his narcissistic source. He is doing this because he NEEDS this from you, if you get something from this then awesome but the main reason is for himself only. They are also (usually) very skilled and practiced manipulators. Pulling on your heart-strings is likely child's play for him.

Please, please, please be careful in your thoughts and actions. You know your ex-partner best but think about all the progress you have made towards detaching, like you admit, you run a very big risk of crashing back to earth harder than your initial separation.

Do you still want a relationship with him? When I thought I did, I read the 'staying' forums... .choc full of just as much pain and suffering as this forum and these are partners of BPD sufferer's actively getting treatment!

Stay strong mate!

[Mels]

Thank you for your words!

I believe that he does. Our marriage counsellor said he was a narcissistic sociopath within the first 20 minutes of talking to him. He IS a master manipulator. Detached. Selfish. I saw all of this as soon as we moved in together. I held onto potential. The person that I moved in with is not the person I fell in love with. In reality, he is both people. The general public sees the good side.

I don't want to get back together with him. I know this is for the best. I feel less lonely being alone than when I was with him (the last three years anyway). That being said, it's so easy to slip back to what is familiar. Daydreaming of sort. It's not healthy, but here I am doing it.

I truly believe that he was just testing me to see how I would react and I fell for it.

[Ahoy]

Its funny because I know my partner is so very bad for me too and reconciliation is not possible anyway, however it doesn't stop me today from silly little daydreams too.

Good on you for being strong, recognising that any re-engagement is not a good idea at all.

Now the hard part (for all of us) learning to accept being a bit lonely and moving forward with our lives.

[JQ]

He Meis!      

Hey don't beat yourself up on what happened today. WE all have stumbled on our own journey with our exBPD, me, others, and now you have too. It's ok, look behind you and you'll see everyone here holding out a hand to help you up, dust you off, straighten back up. NOW it's up to you what you do next. YOU can continue down the path your currently on and see how that continues to work out for you. YOU can take the path to right and see where that takes you or you can sit back down and do nothing. The choice is and ALWAYS has been YOURS!     

As Ahoy points out, your BPD like all BPDs are master manipulators and we ALL have been subject to their NPD behavior that in the end only feed their need. It's NEVER to give you what you need, but like you have experienced, like WE all have experienced it's ALL about THEM!

So if you believe that going on this birthday thing with him would continue to set you back, then text him, DONT' CALL HIM, and let him know that you have something come up and can't make it. YOU don't have to explain WHAT came up, just something came up and you can't make it. YOU don't owe him anything!  YOU don't have explain ANYTHING to him!  YOU have to protect YOU by any means!  

The progress IS NOT GONE!  YOU know what it feels like to be in a better place! YOU know how you got there and what it took to get there. SO you can get their again but you know the short cut to get there!       I'm not saying you won't have you're moments, but YOU ALREADY know that getting out and doing things like the 10k help more then you thought it would. YOU KNOW that calling friends and spending time with them on the phone or at lunch helps with getting back to where you were!  All you did was take a stumble!  

What happens in your 10k when you stumble at the 4k mark? YOU don't go back to the starting line ... .NOO YOU GET BACK UP & START AGAIN WITH ONLY 6 K TO GO!        A corny quote from the Batman movie, "Bruce why do we fall? SO we learn to pick ourselves back up again!"  Thomas Wayne  

You got this! Get back in the race Meis!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQeMv5PXhg

You got this!  and WE got YOU!

J

[Mels]

He Meis!      

Hey don't beat yourself up on what happened today. WE all have stumbled on our own journey with our exBPD, me, others, and now you have too. It's ok, look behind you and you'll see everyone here holding out a hand to help you up, dust you off, straighten back up. NOW it's up to you what you do next. YOU can continue down the path your currently on and see how that continues to work out for you. YOU can take the path to right and see where that takes you or you can sit back down and do nothing. The choice is and ALWAYS has been YOURS~!    

As Ahoy points out, your BPD like all BPDs are master manipulators and we ALL have been subject to their NPD behavior that in the end only feed their need. It's NEVER to give you what you need, but like you have experienced, like WE all have experienced it's ALL about THEM~!

So if you believe that going on this birthday thing with him would continue to set you back, then text him, DONT' CALL HIM, and let him know that you have something come up and can't make it. YOU don't have to explain WHAT came up, just something came up and you can't make it. YOU don't owe him anything~! YOU don't have explain ANYTHING to him!  YOU have to protect YOU by any means~!  

The progress IS NOT GONE~!  YOU know what it feels like to be in a better place! YOU know how you got there and what it took to get there. SO you can get their again but you know the short cut to get there!      I'm not saying you won't have you're moments, but YOU ALREADY know that getting out and doing things like the 10k help more then you thought it would. YOU KNOW that calling friends and spending time with them on the phone or at lunch helps with getting back to where you were!  All you did was take a stumble!  

What happens in your 10k when you stumble at the 4k mark? YOU don't go back to the starting line ... . NOO YOU GET BACK UP & START AGAIN WITH ONLY 6 K TO GO~!       A corny quote from the Batman movie, "Bruce why do we fall? SO we learn to pick ourselves back up again~!"  Thomas Wayne  

You got this~! Get back in the race Meis!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQeMv5PXhg

You got this~!  and WE got YOU~!

J

Hi! 

Thank you! You're right, I shouldn't beat myself over it. At the same time, I waited 24 hours to let him know via text that I may be interested in going and now that I said that I was, he hasn't texted back. This is probably a game to him. He just wanted validation that I was still interested. When we met he kept asking me if I was seeing anyone.

I'm a positive, hopeful person by nature. I can't help but wonder if he's really serious about changing his ways. I can't help but romanticize that despite common sense and what I know is the right thing, that maybe we'll beat the odds, reconcile and live happily ever after. I feel silly even writing that because deep down I know the truth. But at the same time, he is what I've known for almost a decade. We've been through so much together - including a long distance relationship on three different continents for 3 years (due to work). This separation although very real and needed also doesn't feel real in a lot of ways when I see him - hence why I can't do that to myself.

When I see him, I'm reminded of the connection we have. I reminisce. I can't do that.

[JQ]

Meis,   

You like like most if not all of us NONs here are the "glass is 1/2 full, positive energy, hopeful, happy" people.  We alway look for the positive in people regardless how what happen or how they treated us because we at our core WANT to believe that they really love us, want to be with us, grow old with us!  But I know from a lot ... .A LOT of work on myself that the BPD / NON aka Codependent r/s are complete opposites like magnets attracting each other in an never ending cycle of chaos & drama.

I would encourage you to read the book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" and it explains how this toxic r/s works but is toxic from the very beginning.  You can most likely find it at your local library.  www.humanmagnetsyndrome.com   

Take a deep breath, let it out slow. It's going to get better and you know this!   

J

[once removed]

When I see him, I'm reminded of the connection we have. I reminisce. I can't do that.

how do you intend to stop? the memories arent going away. the harder you try not to think of them, chances are the stronger theyll be. "dont think of an elephant. dont think of an elephant." what do you think of?

you are detaching from and grieving really painful stuff  . your head is in one place, your heart another (which is not only understandable but common place) and your heart may not be done. that does not mean that your progress is lost. if youd been dieting for two months, and eat a bite or slice of pie, you need not eat the whole pie.

he may well attempt to manipulate you. only you can decide whether you go along for the ride. i think the first step is clarifying your goals. do you want to try again or do you want to be finished? we are here to help you either way  .

[bus boy]

Hi Mel's. You got some great advice given to you from JQ and Ahoy. Take it and absorbed it.

[Mels]

When I see him, I'm reminded of the connection we have. I reminisce. I can't do that.

how do you intend to stop? the memories arent going away. the harder you try not to think of them, chances are the stronger theyll be. "dont think of an elephant. dont think of an elephant." what do you think of?

you are detaching from and grieving really painful stuff  . your head is in one place, your heart another (which is not only understandable but common place) and your heart may not be done. that does not mean that your progress is lost. if youd been dieting for two months, and eat a bite or slice of pie, you need not eat the whole pie.

he may well attempt to manipulate you. only you can decide whether you go along for the ride. i think the first step is clarifying your goals. do you want to try again or do you want to be finished? we are here to help you either way  .

You are 110% right. I feel conflicted. I want to move on. My head is telling me to move on. My heart, although shattered, is still holding on to the potential of what he could've been. The partner that I know he will be once he stops deflecting. That may never happen, so I need to forget about the potential. I just don't know how .

[Mels]

Meis,   

You like like most if not all of us NONs here are the "glass is 1/2 full, positive energy, hopeful, happy" people.  We alway look for the positive in people regardless how what happen or how they treated us because we at our core WANT to believe that they really love us, want to be with us, grow old with us!  But I know from a lot ... .A LOT of work on myself that the BPD / NON aka Codependent r/s are complete opposites like magnets attracting each other in an never ending cycle of chaos & drama.

I would encourage you to read the book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" and it explains how this toxic r/s works but is toxic from the very beginning.  You can most likely find it at your local library.  www.humanmagnetsyndrome.com   

Take a deep breath, let it out slow. It's going to get better and you know this!   

J

Thank you very much! I will look into it. 

[Mels]

Hi Mel's. You got some great advice given to you from JQ and Ahoy. Take it and absorbed it.

Yes! Everyone has been great so far. Thank you all, truly. 

[Ahoy]

When I see him, I'm reminded of the connection we have. I reminisce. I can't do that.

how do you intend to stop? the memories arent going away. the harder you try not to think of them, chances are the stronger theyll be. "dont think of an elephant. dont think of an elephant." what do you think of?

you are detaching from and grieving really painful stuff  . your head is in one place, your heart another (which is not only understandable but common place) and your heart may not be done. that does not mean that your progress is lost. if youd been dieting for two months, and eat a bite or slice of pie, you need not eat the whole pie.

he may well attempt to manipulate you. only you can decide whether you go along for the ride. i think the first step is clarifying your goals. do you want to try again or do you want to be finished? we are here to help you either way  .

You are 110% right. I feel conflicted. I want to move on. My head is telling me to move on. My heart, although shattered, is still holding on to the potential of what he could've been. The partner that I know he will be once he stops deflecting. That may never happen, so I need to forget about the potential. I just don't know how .

I just want to reflect on this bolded part for one second because It's something I am personally struggling with this week.

I think an important thing to remember is that with BPD, a partner will mirror your or parrot qualities learned from previous encounters, to present your very own, custom-made personality, specifically tailored to meet your emotional needs!

I would very much like this in a suit, or a holiday getaway, NOT a partner. The problem so many of us all face (due to the numerous lies and Inconsistency’s) is WHO our significant others actually are!

He could 100% be the person you see when there is no chaos BUT (here is the hurtful part) from example after example given here, our REAL partner is usually someone different or at least a hybrid of what we were presented with. They have no self, they are the proverbial leopard that can change their spots.

For me, this makes thinking about the fun times with my ex very difficult because I honestly don't know who I was having fun with. I know for a fact my wife has changed into a different person now based on conversations with a family member.

Food for thought... .

[JQ]

Hi Group,

Ahoy has made some great points here.  A BPD will & does mirror the person they are with at that time and as many have pointed out they change their color like a chameleon to suit their environment. As my exBPD pointed out more then a couple of times, she has no sense of self, she does NOT know who she is at her core. So in order to avoid the intense feelings of loneliness or abandonment & pain they have learned to mirror the person they're with in order to fulfill this need of theirs. YOU feed their NEED!

Like Ahoy, I thought about the fun times with my exBPD, and I did see moments of clarity. BUT they were only moments and soon the "Hybrid" that Ahoy pointed out would appear and the raging and chaos would appear.  I would like to think that the person i was enjoying a walk in the city square, enjoying a conversation over a meal, the smile I saw on her face when she woke in the morning was the person I fell in love with. It was the horrible mental illness that was, that IS the crutch in all of this.

I do NOT hate "her", I do NOT blame "her" for her mental illness.  From my education of BPD, unless someone can create a drug or a surgery to repair the physical aspects of the brain damaged by this mental illness she will forever be BPD and EVERYTHING that comes with it.  I on some level do miss her, I miss those conversations, I miss holding her hand, I miss our kisses, I miss those times of clarity in her eyes when she tells me she loves me.  I miss thinking about a future with her and all that could of gone with it.  THIS IS NORMAL FOR US TO FEEL. And that is ok to feel, because for a moment in time, for a moment in OUR lives our BPD's was an important part in our life.

But then there is the reality of the mental illness, and we know in our minds that we must move on without them. WE must live our lives without them in it if WE are to explore, enjoy and have a life at all.  Our hearts will miss them, that part that we feel in love with.   But we will move forward on our journey in life having become wiser about ourselves and about life. WE will live our lives full of happiness, laughter & love!

J

[Mels]

We were supposed to meet for dinner tonight. He suggested this two weeks ago. Despite knowing better, I said yes because 1. I still have feelings for him. 2. I want to be cordial despite everything that he's done.

Of course, he cancels 3 hours prior to our reservation claiming how he has to finish something that he has been working (he has been working on this project for months). Now, he was aware of this two weeks ago, one week ago, hell... .even 48 hours ago. But he waited until the very last minute to cancel. I probably shouldn't have blown up, but I did. Who do you think you are? My time is just as valuable as yours. He apologized two weeks ago for a lot of ___ that he did in the last 5 years... .my instinct was right. He was only doing this to see if I would fall for it.

[steelwork]

Ugh. I'm sorry.

[Mels]

Ugh. I'm sorry.

Thank you. It's ok. It cemented that he continues to think about himself. As hard as this is, it's an important realization. He doesn't deserve my time or friendship. I attempted despite the fact that he emotionally shattered me... .I attempted to be a mature adult and have a cordial relationship with him after a decade together. We are not on the same wave length. He doesn't grasp the severity of pain, and he probably never will. Sure things come up, but doing this last minute when you've been working on the same project for months just proves to me that you only value your time. It's disrespectful, but that's him.

[JerryRG]

Dreadful but all too common, selfish immaturity and total disregard and disrespect for you. I grew used to this behaviour because I was lulled slowly like the frog in boiling water.

PwBPD rely on our humanity to further their egos and we are merly objects to them, because they are so miserable and wounded and hate themselves so bring us down with them.

I'm sorry you are going through this Mels, keep pushing forward into good health, LOVE YOU, pwBPD cannot love themselves so we are never going to get what they do not have.

Hope you feel better soon.

[Mels]

Dreadful but all too common, selfish immaturity and total disregard and disrespect for you. I grew used to this behaviour because I was lulled slowly like the frog in boiling water.

PwBPD rely on our humanity to further their egos and we are merly objects to them, because they are so miserable and wounded and hate themselves so bring us down with them.

I'm sorry you are going through this Mels, keep pushing forward into good health, LOVE YOU, pwBPD cannot love themselves so we are never going to get what they do not have.

Hope you feel better soon.

Thank you. Exactly. Funny how one can be completely aware of this and still remain hopeful that things will change. 

Today he sent me a text telling me that he was busy and depressed hence why he cancelled. I did not respond.

[Mels]

 I couldn't relate to others writing about detachment until my ex asked me for space . I don't call him, I don't text him. I generally avoid him like the plague in social situations. I've replied to maybe 6-7 texts in the last 3 months. When I called him out for cancelling the dinner HE suggested, I was told that in order for HIM to move on, he needs distance. In order for him to heal he needs not to be reminded of us and our 8 year relationship. I was floored. Not because of the content of his nonsense but because he genuinely believes that he's the victim here. He wanted this. He got want he wanted and now he needs to 'heal'. Wousaaaaaa.

[JerryRG]

Hey Mels

He's 100% selfish

Immature

And I believe pwBPD

100% hopeless

It is ALL about them... .

Since it is ALL about them should we blame ourselves for trying to do the impossible?

[Mels]

Hey Mels

He's 100% selfish

Immature

And I believe pwBPD

100% hopeless

It is ALL about them... .

Since it is ALL about them should we blame ourselves for trying to do the impossible?

Absolutely not, but when you're very used to justifying their unacceptable behaviour this sadly becomes second nature. His selfishness has no bounds. I'm in awe. It's always about them. I'm so glad that I chose not to have children with him.

[Fr4nz]

I couldn't relate to others writing about detachment until my ex asked me for space . I don't call him, I don't text him. I generally avoid him like the plague in social situations. I've replied to maybe 6-7 texts in the last 3 months. When I called him out for cancelling the dinner HE suggested, I was told that in order for HIM to move on, he needs distance. In order for him to heal he needs not to be reminded of us and our 8 year relationship. I was floored. Not because of the content of his nonsense but because he genuinely believes that he's the victim here. He wanted this. He got want he wanted and now he needs to 'heal'. Wousaaaaaa.

Yes, they need to interpret the "victim" role, otherwise they would have to face their mistakes; this, in turn, would induce loads of shame, and we know that cluster Bs don't cope well with the shame (well, apart from sociopaths, since they simply don't care at all... .).

Something similar happened to me 3 days ago:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=293643.0

They cannot face their mistakes, and when it seems they are going to do that, that's going to last for a few hours/days; massive psychological defence mechanisms come into play, and they revert back to the victim role: it must be all OUR fault.

Instead, they prefer to do the blameshifting thing and pretend to be the victims, and they really believe this crap. It is SO mind-boggling that it seems they live on a different universe!  

[Icanteven]

Ugh. I'm sorry.

Thank you. It's ok. It cemented that he continues to think about himself. As hard as this is, it's an important realization. He doesn't deserve my time or friendship. I attempted despite the fact that he emotionally shattered me... .I attempted to be a mature adult and have a cordial relationship with him after a decade together. We are not on the same wave length. He doesn't grasp the severity of pain, and he probably never will. Sure things come up, but doing this last minute when you've been working on the same project for months just proves to me that you only value your time. It's disrespectful, but that's him.

I can't tell you what to do above and beyond this situation, but did you consider that he actually got pulled away?  In my marriage I've had my boss tell me fifteen minutes before I was leaving that he needed me to finish a project, and given the high-powered, high-stress nature of my job I've had to call and ask my wife to reschedule.  It happens.  In my case, though, I'd make it up to her in spades or we'd still go out later or she'd swing by the office and be my companion, etc.  YMMV.

[Mels]

I couldn't relate to others writing about detachment until my ex asked me for space . I don't call him, I don't text him. I generally avoid him like the plague in social situations. I've replied to maybe 6-7 texts in the last 3 months. When I called him out for cancelling the dinner HE suggested, I was told that in order for HIM to move on, he needs distance. In order for him to heal he needs not to be reminded of us and our 8 year relationship. I was floored. Not because of the content of his nonsense but because he genuinely believes that he's the victim here. He wanted this. He got want he wanted and now he needs to 'heal'. Wousaaaaaa.

Yes, they need to interpret the "victim" role, otherwise they would have to face their mistakes; this, in turn, would induce loads of shame, and we know that cluster Bs don't cope well with the shame (well, apart from sociopaths, since they simply don't care at all... .).

Something similar happened to me 3 days ago:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=293643.0

They cannot face their mistakes, and when it seems they are going to do that, that's going to last for a few hours/days; massive psychological defence mechanisms come into play, and they revert back to the victim role: it must be all OUR fault.

Instead, they prefer to do the blameshifting thing and pretend to be the victims, and they really believe this crap. It is SO mind-boggling that it seems they live on a different universe!  

I read your thread. I sympathize and understand very much. It's unbelievable, really.  They have their own version of events, their own lines, their own theories. It's better than a Telenovela.

[Mels]

Ugh. I'm sorry.

Thank you. It's ok. It cemented that he continues to think about himself. As hard as this is, it's an important realization. He doesn't deserve my time or friendship. I attempted despite the fact that he emotionally shattered me... .I attempted to be a mature adult and have a cordial relationship with him after a decade together. We are not on the same wave length. He doesn't grasp the severity of pain, and he probably never will. Sure things come up, but doing this last minute when you've been working on the same project for months just proves to me that you only value your time. It's disrespectful, but that's him.

I can't tell you what to do above and beyond this situation, but did you consider that he actually got pulled away?  In my marriage I've had my boss tell me fifteen minutes before I was leaving that he needed me to finish a project, and given the high-powered, high-stress nature of my job I've had to call and ask my wife to reschedule.  It happens.  In my case, though, I'd make it up to her in spades or we'd still go out later or she'd swing by the office and be my companion, etc.  YMMV.

Of course I did. But that simply has never been the case with him. He works from home and has been working on this one project for the last 4 months (longer than we've been separated). He is a master procrastinator. The best way to describe him is as someone who is exceptionally talented in his field with an attention span of a toddler. If he tells you that something will get done on Monday, don't count on it. It never will. This applies to everything in his life, not just work. He's unreliable. His cancellation wasn't a surprise, it was the fact that he waiting until the very last minute to tell me something that I knew was going to happen.

[Icanteven]

Of course I did. But that simply has never been the case with him. He works from home and has been working on this one project for the last 4 months (longer than we've been separated). He is a master procrastinator. The best way to describe him is as someone who is exceptionally talented in his field with an attention span of a toddler. If he tells you that something will get done on Monday, don't count on it. It never will. This applies to everything in his life, not just work. He's unreliable. His cancellation wasn't a surprise, it was the fact that he waiting until the very last minute to tell me something that I knew was going to happen.

That I can 100% relate to; I can't tell you how many times my wife has put something off, almost as a way of creating unnecessary drama.  Maybe not even almost.  There have been huge life events that she punted on that I had to ride to the rescue or all hell would have broken loose.  Says a lot about me maybe that I let her do it, but I had plenty of excuses for her, the most obvious one being that she is mentally ill and has difficulty with her executive function as part and parcel of the disease. 

Also, attention span of a toddler?  I'd take that some days. Although, even that is selective:  something she really wants to do?  We're good.  Something that she is a little undecided about?  If it takes more than thirty minutes it's off to The Onion for an hour.  Something she doesn't want to pay attention to?  Save your time, breath, and energy.

I think for us as partners - and I'm not trying to be presumptuous, but I see this a lot on the boards - we wind up asking ourselves, why the hell am I in this relationship with this person who is so lousy to me?  For me, it's the fact that we're family.  But, if we weren't, I would have hit the door years ago.  Our partners are awful to us yet we keep coming back, for the sex or the memory of what we once had or our compulsion to fix or whatever.  For me, it's near time to say that if wifey doesn't want to be part of the family any more I can't make her and protect our children as best I can. But, that's the only reason for me.  There are literally dozens of reasons to walk and only one not to:  Family is family. 

[Mels]

That I can 100% relate to; I can't tell you how many times my wife has put something off, almost as a way of creating unnecessary drama.  Maybe not even almost.  There have been huge life events that she punted on that I had to ride to the rescue or all hell would have broken loose.  Says a lot about me maybe that I let her do it, but I had plenty of excuses for her, the most obvious one being that she is mentally ill and has difficulty with her executive function as part and parcel of the disease. 

Also, attention span of a toddler?  I'd take that some days. Although, even that is selective:  something she really wants to do?  We're good.  Something that she is a little undecided about?  If it takes more than thirty minutes it's off to The Onion for an hour.  Something she doesn't want to pay attention to?  Save your time, breath, and energy.

I think for us as partners - and I'm not trying to be presumptuous, but I see this a lot on the boards - we wind up asking ourselves, why the hell am I in this relationship with this person who is so lousy to me?  For me, it's the fact that we're family.  But, if we weren't, I would have hit the door years ago.  Our partners are awful to us yet we keep coming back, for the sex or the memory of what we once had or our compulsion to fix or whatever.  For me, it's near time to say that if wifey doesn't want to be part of the family any more I can't make her and protect our children as best I can. But, that's the only reason for me.  There are literally dozens of reasons to walk and only one not to:  Family is family. 

Oh this hits way too  close to home. My husband threatened to leave every single time something stressful occurred. The man simply cannot deal with life. He deals with life the way an 8 year old kid deals with life. His childhood drama is the reason why  he copes (or doesn't cope) with life and relationships the way he does. I tried for 5 years to make something work that he clearly wasn't ready for. For 5 years he constantly threatened to leave, and when I finally said ... ."Ok, leave. You have two weeks." he was stumped. That same hour he asked me if I wanted to go out on a  date with him despite insisting that he still wanted to leave.  I'm surprised that I haven't gone crazy. Maybe I have and don't know it yet.

We have been separated for 3 months now and he has done everything but work on himself. I justified so much bs... .SO MUCH BS for years because I thought he was my ideal, my everything. My everything wouldn't act this way, he wouldn't treat me this way... .so I kept on justifying and justifying.

We didn't have kids because I decided that I did not want to have children with him. One would think that would be the final straw because I want to have children some day.  I stayed because I had hoped that something would change. Of course, it never did. I understand when you say you stay because family is everything. We were a family of two, three if you count our dog. That was my priority. He was and still remains his #1 priority.