Support and help regarding stalker with several disorders

[mitti]

Hello everybody! 

I am posting on this board because I am being stalked and I do not want this to be seen except for other members.

I have been the victim of some fierce harassment and stalking for about 1,5 years now. The person stalking me is a woman my uBPDbfx was dating on and off after he and I broke up. I have not received any help from the police nor from victim support or from the psychiatric help I have sought. The impact on my life has been huge.

The woman is definitely a clinical sociopath and probably has some other severe psychological issues as well such as possibly a multiple personality disorder. She uses an alter ego to write to me and creates conspiracies around herself, and around me and my ex and also other people. She has an obsession with me and her behaviour seems compulsive. It is bisarre and very disturbing.

My friends and the few acquaintances that know don't understand. My ex has kind of shut down and is only concerned with being angry with me. He has been using this woman to punish me for 'abandoning him' so the dynamic between them only reinforces the situation. The advice I have got either doesn't help or is counter-productive.

I would like to get in touch with people with experience from these kinds of personalities and situations and/or professionals or support groups. Though it is not "mainstream" stalking (as awful it sounds to describe a really disturbing behaviour, as any stalking is, that way) I imagine there must be other cases and other victims of this kind.

Thank you so much in advance for any suggestions.

[Grey Kitty]

I haven't been stalked personally (Other than a couple exes that were watching my every move on facebook for a little while, and that is very mild; all they did was click "like" on everything I posted.) so I'm not personally sure what to say here.

You aren't at all specific about what this stalker is actually doing. Can you share some details? I just recently saw an article about how hard it is to get legal relief for online stalking or harassment. You don't even say if it is online or in person.

Perhaps others will have good ideas, but at this point I'm drawing a blank.

[Panda39]

Use Google and see what information is out there.

Here is a link to a page that I thought had a lot of good practical advice... .

https://www.stalkingriskprofile.com/victim-support/general-advice-for-victims

Hope this helps,

Panda39

[Thunderstruck]

When I first started dating my DH, his uBPDx stalked the heck out of me. She would call me upwards of 40 times per day. I would block her number and she would call me from a different one. I would ignore the call or pick up/hang up and she would immediately call me back over and over.

She would send me emails and facebook messages. Block block block. Created fake profiles, had to block those too. Changed my privacy settings to FULL privacy.

I called the police, and they called her. Asked her to stop contacting me. That calmed it down, but didn't stop it entirely.

I finally contacted a L friend of mine and had her write a cease and desist. That seemed to do it.

Since she wasn't making any threats, that was about as far as I could go.  Luckily it seemed to work. I also think that since I wasn't responding to any of it, she didn't get the reaction out of me that she wanted, so she moved on (now the focus is on turning SD against us... .another issue entirely).

[mitti]

You aren't at all specific about what this stalker is actually doing. Can you share some details? I just recently saw an article about how hard it is to get legal relief for online stalking or harassment. You don't even say if it is online or in person.

Hi Grey Kitty, sorry that I have not responded until now. I am travelling at the moment and don't always have access to wifi.

And my apologies for forgetting to give details. Here is some background and I will try and keep it brief because the story is so twisted and complex.

Background

After the breakup my ex was extremely angry with me for 'abandoning him' and gave me ST for a whole year. He started turning up in my life again. He was then with her, my stalker. I am involved in dance and he would come to classes I assisted. She does not dance but would at times come along and stare at me, laugh, point, but when with him pretend that she was scared of me and throw jealousy tantrums.

When he began talking to me again and joined the same dance group as me, he started receiving weird anonymous texts with information about her, that she was running around his back, cheating etc. as well as ridiculing him and exposing private things about him. For about 6 months similar texts were sent to him and to some of his friends and finally also to me, always the same thing that she was awful to him and demeaning private details about him.

He broke up with her when she was out of the country. He and I reconciled. After this everything exploded. He cheated on me which was a mistake, but I broke up with him, and he begged me to take him back and we were in touch for a month but he was just dysregulating more and more and went back to her to punish me. She had received and showed him copies of long FB convos between two people with vague threats, pictures of him and me. Same strange language as in the texts. I received harassment texts, now extremely hateful towards me and ridiculing me the same way. She called me to meet, she was very friendly and sweet. When we met and she was totally the opposite, hostile, rude and controlling. Without going into long details about how but after that meeting I understood that she was/is the person that had sent all those texts.

About the harassment

The texts are hard to understand because there seems to be no real motivation or agenda and sentence construction and grammar is ridiculously bad. It has escalated and she sends me texts both as herself and as the alter ego (whom she has given a name) in two different languages and with conflicting agendas. She has sent me emails, and Facebook messages, with private and intimate pictures of my ex, with fake screenshots of convos between herself and other people planning to defraud him of money. A lot of the texts are very sexual in nature. I have received numerous fake FB friend requests and many of these I am absolutely certain are from her, perhaps all of them. She has gone past my house that I know of at least once.

This woman is out of control. She has no boundaries, is completely fearless of consequences and hates me with a vengeance. Talking to professionals they have told me she is a very dangerous person. She has spent countless hours planning, writing and executing her stalking and harassment of me. All in all my ex and I have received several hundred texts. For a while I was getting up 25 texts a day. And she is doing all this without any provocation from me. She just feeds off of her hatred of me.

[mitti]

Use Google and see what information is out there.

Here is a link to a page that I thought had a lot of good practical advice... .

https://www.stalkingriskprofile.com/victim-support/general-advice-for-victims

Hope this helps,

Panda39

Thank you so much Panda39, I will check the link.

I have googled this but because my situation is so specific and weird in nature I haven't found anything that really helps me. What I most want is to get in touch with other people that have experience of people similar to my stalker and/or have been victims of similar kind of stalking/harassment with alter egos and making up stories.

[mitti]

When I first started dating my DH, his uBPDx stalked the heck out of me. She would call me upwards of 40 times per day. I would block her number and she would call me from a different one. I would ignore the call or pick up/hang up and she would immediately call me back over and over.

She would send me emails and facebook messages. Block block block. Created fake profiles, had to block those too. Changed my privacy settings to FULL privacy.

I called the police, and they called her. Asked her to stop contacting me. That calmed it down, but didn't stop it entirely.

I finally contacted a L friend of mine and had her write a cease and desist. That seemed to do it.

Since she wasn't making any threats, that was about as far as I could go.  Luckily it seemed to work. I also think that since I wasn't responding to any of it, she didn't get the reaction out of me that she wanted, so she moved on (now the focus is on turning SD against us... .another issue entirely).

Hi Thunderstruck,

Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about your awful experience.

I have not responded to any of the texts. This woman has been in for questioning with the police as I applied for a restraining order but it didn't stop her. She feels in the clear because she uses an alter ego. It may even be that she 'feels' that this alter ego really is a separate person from her and that she has no control over it.

I spoke to a professional on a trip abroad. He works with people with disorders such a multiple personality disorder and sociopathy and he said he recognised the pattern clearly and advised me to not block her number as everything needs to be documented. He said that is most likely just going to continue to escalate. And it has.

[Grey Kitty]

Yikes, what a mess.

Summary (as I get it):

The harassment was in person some of the time while you were reconciled / working on stuff with your ex.

The texting / facebook harassment has been extensive, ongoing, and aimed at both you and your ex.

Questions about the situation:

Do you have any ongoing contact with your ex now?

How long ago was the in-person meeting with your stalker?

Have you seen her in person since that time?

You say you applied for a restraining order, and it didn't stop her.  Was a RO granted?

[mitti]

Yikes, what a mess.

Summary (as I get it):

The harassment was in person some of the time while you were reconciled / working on stuff with your ex.

The texting / facebook harassment has been extensive, ongoing, and aimed at both you and your ex.

Yes, this is correct. The first texts that came before he and I reconciled were aimed at herself, to shift his focus on me back to her. He always tells me he feels sorry for her, but that he doesn't want to be with her.

Another thing with her is that she is claiming that I am the stalker/harasser, her alter ego, though it is impossible since I have an alibi for most of the times and also have no access to much of the info sent. But most people don't know the details and don't want to know either so all they hear is that harassment texts have been sent, and she would make herself out to be the primary victim, as that is how it started, and I am the ex, and my ex has been push pull and now so angry with me that he is telling people I stalk him and that I might be the harasser too. It's too bisarre and creepy for people to take in.

Questions about the situation:

Do you have any ongoing contact with your ex now?

We did have contact up until this autumn. He got furious with me when he also was called in for questioning with the police regrading the restraining order. He told me to never contact him again. But then there was more harassment and I did contact him again a couple of months later and by then he had calmed down and wanted to speak to me but got angry again. All this time he has tried to make me admit that I still have feelings for him, and when I finally did a couple of months ago, he had a way to hurt me "back" for abandoning him all this time. This for him is so much only about my breaking up after he was unfaithful, so he puts up with her because he knows this really hurts me. We had exchanged Xmas greetings but for some reason he is again angry. So at the moment I have no contact with him but that is another problem, I need to contact him because he has access to something that could be very helpful to the police. This whole mess could never have happened had it not been for the combo of their respective disorders. And to have to work all this around his BPD is difficult.

How long ago was the in-person meeting with your stalker?

Just over a year ago.

Have you seen her in person since that time?

I have seen her a few times yes. He tried really hard to get me back a few times up until last summer, but I refused to even talk to him and he then turned to a mutual friend and when the friend told him I would not speak to him or be willing to have anything to do with him so long as she was still around, he dysregulated badly and came with her to a club where I was performing triggering a panic attack in me, I have PTSD. She pretended to be scared of me, something she always does when around other people but when nobody can see her, wow it's really scary. She is not in the least frightened of me and I am much taller than her and more fit. Meeting her was one of the most uncomfortable and creepy events of my life. She is a psychopath! But she was banned from that place because I had to tell the owners the backstory after what happened. This of course only made him more angry with me. Since then I have seen her out a couple of time with him but I have then left that place, though I have all my friends there. I know for a fact she has gone by my place at least once recently.

You say you applied for a restraining order, and it didn't stop her.  Was a RO granted?

It wasn't granted, at least partly due to a huge mistake at the DA's Office. The evidence to support my application was never sent to the police and so looked at previous material from the first police report. It was not serious enough and gave the impression that it was very long ago and not even so much focused on me. They refused to correct that mistake. And on top of that she and my ex both lied when questioned so their stories lined up and there was no evidence to support my claims, and my being his ex. They simply didn't believe me and didn't think it necessary to review the, to them, new evidence. I have now been advised to report them for malpractice, which I will.

It didn't stop her but some time after she changed how she stalks me. Now the texts are few but she sends me friends requests from fake accounts on Facebook all the time. They come almost weekly. And all of a sudden my email inbox has got flooded with spam emails with sexual content. I have had the same email address for years and that has never happened. On my last report with the police it was filed as harassment, stalking, slander and sexual harassment.

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmmm... .

Yes, your ex has access to things that would give you more evidence for legal actions against this stalker.

However, I'm wondering if it really is worth engaging with him to attempt to get any of it.

I think that zero engagement and contact with either her and your ex are the cleanest and best outcome you could look for right now.

ANY contact between you and your ex will be adding fuel to the fire that is pushing her to do crazy stalking things aimed at you.

... .and the more the harassment continues, the more evidence you will be able to point to that will support your RO.

... .if she loses interest in you and gives up, you get exactly what you wanted.

[mitti]

Hmmmm... .

Yes, your ex has access to things that would give you more evidence for legal actions against this stalker.

However, I'm wondering if it really is worth engaging with him to attempt to get any of it.

I think that zero engagement and contact with either her and your ex are the cleanest and best outcome you could look for right now.

ANY contact between you and your ex will be adding fuel to the fire that is pushing her to do crazy stalking things aimed at you.

... .and the more the harassment continues, the more evidence you will be able to point to that will support your RO.

... .if she loses interest in you and gives up, you get exactly what you wanted.

Actually it is quite the opposite. I have tried ignoring this whole thing and go NC with me ex, and insist on it, several times already and it only makes things worse. The times when it has escalated is when he and I have no contact, because he then tries to end things with her and she comes after me. I have been NC with him for months and it just got worse and worse, I mean just a couple of days ago. Her agenda is to keep him angry with me as that has been the only way for her to get him back, when he has left her. He uses her as a kind of shield against the panic he at times feels around me, and as a way to punish me for abandoning him. This has been going on for over 1,5 years and my strategy has most of this time been to ignore her and him, but when I do it continues and gets worse.

The professional I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread that I have spoken to, told me that ignoring this is the last thing I should do. He gave me a list of priorities and a to-do-list. I must get the authorities such as police to take this seriously and it is vital to get my ex on board as his behaviour is just feeding her hatred of me. He also said to never respond to her, it will still most probably escalate but just not as quickly. He also said that this kind of personality is very likely to resort to physical violence in the end. She has already been reported for assaulting a former boyfriend and she has assaulted my ex.

One of the reasons the police and the DA have not been willing to investigate before is the lack of evidence. She send everything from her alter ego and pretends to be the victim. So they need something tangible. So contact with my ex is more important than ever.

This case is so unusual and that is why I wanted to find a support group or something to better understand how to deal with it, what triggers her and what doesn't. I need for it to end. It has cost me my job and am no longer able to function around people the way I used to. My PTSD is worse and it has made me feel a little paranoid around people.

[Grey Kitty]

OK, let me make sure I get this right... .

When you go NC with your ex, he tries to end things with stalker, and stalker harasses you more.

So you are staying in contact with your ex, so he won't break up with stalker, so she won't harass you as much.

And this is the advice you are getting a mental health professional, or more than one.

 I'm scratching my head, as it sounds pretty codependent to me, but I'm not a mental health professional... .I've learned quite a bit about BPD/NPD, but otherwise am not an expert... .and I don't get a feeling that BPD/NPD is the main thing going on with your stalker. So I really don't know. Do the professional(s) you've been in contact with seem credible, and do you think they know enough about the stalker to have an accurate assessment of her?

[mitti]

OK, let me make sure I get this right... .

When you go NC with your ex, he tries to end things with stalker, and stalker harasses you more.

So you are staying in contact with your ex, so he won't break up with stalker, so she won't harass you as much.

And this is the advice you are getting a mental health professional, or more than one.

 I'm scratching my head, as it sounds pretty codependent to me, but I'm not a mental health professional... .I've learned quite a bit about BPD/NPD, but otherwise am not an expert... .and I don't get a feeling that BPD/NPD is the main thing going on with your stalker. So I really don't know. Do the professional(s) you've been in contact with seem credible, and do you think they know enough about the stalker to have an accurate assessment of her?

I haven't said anybody has told me to stay in touch with me ex to prevent her from stalking me. I don't know why you would be inferring that. The professional I have mentioned works with people with serious mental disorders/illnesses, such as antisocial personality disorder, as I think it is called or more commonly psychopath, and for instance multiple personality disorder etc. And this is what he believes is the problem with the stalker, possible other diagnoses too. Many of the people that he meets on a daily basis have a criminal past. He recognised and described her pattern to me and it was more or less exactly what I have gone through. This professional, as well as the other two that work in the psychiatric health care, have told me to not ignore her or the messages she sends me. They seems very credible to me. They do know enough about her behaviour to make that assessment yes.

I have not written anywhere that I have stayed in touch with him so that he will not break up with her for her to harass me less. I don't even know why you make that assumption. I have described the dynamic and how ignoring her isn't helping.

Could you clarify what/who sounds codependent to me? I am not sure what you mean, and I want to be sure before I respond.

[Grey Kitty]

You said this... .

I have tried ignoring this whole thing and go NC with me ex, and insist on it, several times already and it only makes things worse. The times when it has escalated is when he and I have no contact, because he then tries to end things with her and she comes after me. I have been NC with him for months and it just got worse and worse, I mean just a couple of days ago. Her agenda is to keep him angry with me as that has been the only way for her to get him back, when he has left her. He uses her as a kind of shield against the panic he at times feels around me, and as a way to punish me for abandoning him. This has been going on for over 1,5 years and my strategy has most of this time been to ignore her and him, but when I do it continues and gets worse.

I was kinda confused... .and tried to clarify and summarize it like this... .and asked you to confirm if I was right or not.

So you are staying in contact with your ex, so he won't break up with stalker, so she won't harass you as much.

You are saying you didn't / aren't doing that... .and I'm relieved, and don't have any codependence to talk about now.

But I do want to ask you about your situation still:

Besides trying to get evidence to use against your stalker from your ex, do you want other contact with your ex?

[mitti]

Sorry for taking time responding. I have been away and then spent days compiling material for the police as new harassment texts and pictures keep coming in, yuk. Very disturbing content.

I am at loss as to what to do now 

You said this... .

I have tried ignoring this whole thing and go NC with me ex, and insist on it, several times already and it only makes things worse. The times when it has escalated is when he and I have no contact, because he then tries to end things with her and she comes after me. I have been NC with him for months and it just got worse and worse, I mean just a couple of days ago. Her agenda is to keep him angry with me as that has been the only way for her to get him back, when he has left her. He uses her as a kind of shield against the panic he at times feels around me, and as a way to punish me for abandoning him. This has been going on for over 1,5 years and my strategy has most of this time been to ignore her and him, but when I do it continues and gets worse.

I was kinda confused... .and tried to clarify and summarize it like this... .and asked you to confirm if I was right or not.

So you are staying in contact with your ex, so he won't break up with stalker, so she won't harass you as much.

You are saying you didn't / aren't doing that... .and I'm relieved, and don't have any codependence to talk about now.

Thanks for clarifying  

But I do want to ask you about your situation still:

Besides trying to get evidence to use against your stalker from your ex, do you want other contact with your ex?

Yes, I do (was posting on the board "Saving a relationship that is in or near breakup" some time ago) or did as any contact I want now is to do with the harassment/stalker situation. That is a priority. But our social circles also overlap and I find it extremely hard to be around him without any form of civil behaviour such as greeting each other. Whether I still have feelings for him? I probably do but my life is in turmoil because of the other stuff that needs sorting out first.

[Grey Kitty]

So to summarize with your ex, your priorities are as follows:

1. Get his help in dealing with the stalker.

2. Being civil, since you will run into him due to overlapping social circles.

3. You still have feelings regarding him to sort out, and may want something else someday, but are trying to put that on a shelf while you deal with #1 and #2.

... .and that leaves you with the big problem... .what to do about the stalker. Wish I had better ideas for you.

[mitti]

So to summarize with your ex, your priorities are as follows:

1. Get his help in dealing with the stalker.

2. Being civil, since you will run into him due to overlapping social circles.

3. You still have feelings regarding him to sort out, and may want something else someday, but are trying to put that on a shelf while you deal with #1 and #2.

... .and that leaves you with the big problem... .what to do about the stalker. Wish I had better ideas for you.

Thank you, yes, that is pretty much it. Thanks for breaking it down.

About the stalker, some things have happened that have made it even more urgent to talk to my ex, well, we actually did meet to talk today, but we need to talk again. Things went ok I suppose considering how bad it has been lately, but he seems to have a different agenda, slightly, and I somehow I think I might have inadvertently triggered his shame while trying not to trigger my own. Damn, navigating between triggers is like a mine field. Anyway, will post a separate brief update in a new post in this thread now.

[mitti]

Update

A few days ago she (the stalker/harasser) posted a very disturbing and very private photo online. It was a photo of my ex and directed at me. I contacted my ex about this and he agreed to meet me today. His reaction to the photo was strange. There hardly was a reaction even, but then she has psychologically abused and manipulated him for so long that it is like she has hijacked his mind and sense of reason. This photo is also direct proof that it is her though all the evidence against her from before is staggering, if the police would only care to investigate. But each one of my friends that has seen the stuff she sends me, and knows the details, agrees that she is the only person it even could be, the only one with motive, opportunity and the nerve and total lack of boundaries. And even my ex agrees that she hates me. My ex's comment is always that "if it is her it will soon become clear". It already has, several times.

When I received this photo, I had not contacted my ex at all for two months. And this photo is by far the most disturbing thing yet. So it has escalated again when I distance myself from him. The other thing that I know because he told me is that he was away for a holiday, without her and they are not currently talking, so again she reacted because he has distanced himself from her. I think she wants me to contact him hoping this will fuel his anger towards me and make him turn to her for cover. But I cannot not tell him about this photo, and I really do not want to see anything even worse.

She knows that she can do anything to him and he will not defend himself, or at least not blame her. She has already several times threatened to send me this kind of stuff. What is next? It almost seems pointless almost to talk to him about this further because he just won't accept facts. I suppose it is a case of cognitive dissonance.

So I am now considering I might talk to a friend of his whom he trusts as a kind of intervention. I am sure they do not know the half of it and definitely not the truth. After meeting him today I also sense that he is feeling way too much shame about this whole situation/drama around the three of us to deal with that, but he seemed to meet me to find a way to get back into my life without having to seem as though he is going back on his previous statement that he will never talk to me again. And this photo provided a serious enough event to warrant a meeting with me. He looked really happy to see me. I hardly left any time for small talk though before I getting into business. I think this is what might have triggered his shame, feeling rejected realising I was only there for the harassment matter. He said he would help me with this, but will not greet me socially (trying to save face I suppose). I just have no idea how to validate.

OK sorry I feel I am rambling

[ForeverDad]

I think she wants me to contact him hoping this will fuel his anger towards me and make him turn to her for cover.

Well, she did accomplish something, she got you to contact him. :'(  Mission accomplished, at least partially.  Ponder that.

Is this something that is seen by the public, recognized by the public or can get indexed by the internet searchbots?  If not, then at least count yourself fortunate it hasn't escalated that far.

[mitti]

I think she wants me to contact him hoping this will fuel his anger towards me and make him turn to her for cover.

Well, she did accomplish something, she got you to contact him. :'(  Mission accomplished, at least partially.  Ponder that.

Is this something that is seen by the public, recognized by the public or can get indexed by the internet searchbots?  If not, then at least count yourself fortunate it hasn't escalated that far.

Considering I met him today I think she would feel it was a partial fail actually. She wants him to hate me also and reject me, and humiliate me.

Yes, it could be seen by the public at that time. She took it down after a while. She only kept it there for long enough for me to see it I think. But the damage is not just that everybody can see it. the damage is that she abuses him, and me, this way. I feel scared what she will do next. By publishing this kind of material she shows absolutely no regard for him, no care for him, no affection though she claims to love him. It is as though she is showing me that she has the power to do what she wants with and to somebody I care for a great deal. She uses him as object to hurt me, actually both of us. She cannot see my reaction so there is nothing accomplished by trying to ignore it. And plus it will escalate further. Every time I thought it wouldn't she shocked me with something new and more outrageous than before.

[Grey Kitty]

If she gets you to contact him ... .through her actions, at some level, her tactics are "working"

Consider that before you try again.

Based on this, is it a reasonable expectation on your part that you will be able to get evidence linking her to the stalking through him? Especially because your ex is unlikely / unwilling / unable to stand up to her.

Bluntly, if contacting your ex and asking for information isn't likely to actually get you anything you can present to the police, I think your best bet is stop trying.


Also, how do you get law enforcement to stop online stalking? You say that you haven't had much luck. Have you been told anything about what you can do and how?

Do you know what the applicable law is? Do you know what sort of behavior would justify an order, or what sort of relief/protection can be granted in one?

[mitti]

If she gets you to contact him ... .through her actions, at some level, her tactics are "working"

What she wants is not only for me to contact him, but as a means to and end, for that to lead to something further, him then reacting in anger towards me and going back to her, and that is the main purpose. My contacting him is in her understanding the way to keep him angry with and distant from, me. Just us regaining contact is definitely what she does not want. So no, this time her tactics were not working.

Also, she is not rational. She is a sick, disordered person. She does not have a set agenda the way normal people would. She has no understanding of or fear of consequences and sadly so far there have been next to none for her. She is driven by intense hatred for me, the hatred sort of feeds itself. She wants to destroy me and destroy my life.

Based on this, is it a reasonable expectation on your part that you will be able to get evidence linking her to the stalking through him? Especially because your ex is unlikely / unwilling / unable to stand up to her.

First of all, yes for now I haven't been able to ask him for evidence or give him information that I don't want to reach her, because I don't trust him yet that he wouldn't snap back. We only met again yesterday for the first time and talked for the first time in two months. This was the first 'friendly' interaction with him since August last year. He never 'returns' in one step. But he clearly indicated that he wants some form of contact but as he is push and pull, and knows it, he himself is trying to navigate his own minefield.

For now his only way of 'protecting himself' against her has been to remove himself from her and go away or be NC. None of his friends understands what she is about. The only person around him that does is me. So I don't expect he will de-program from her mind-control in one day. I represent a lot of what he wants - the dance interest, most of his other interests, the social crowd he wants to hang with, and me. The problem is that he has smeared me so much around his own friends, and he has no way of explaining (without feeling shame and guilt) that what he said about me is no longer valid because he now feels differently towards me. How does a pwBPD "unsmear" their partner/ex-partner? Do they even? My ex's usual strategy is to slowly let people see that we are friends again and then saying he might have judged me too hard or something. But it is a process.

Bluntly, if contacting your ex and asking for information isn't likely to actually get you anything you can present to the police, I think your best bet is stop trying.

Why? So where does that leave me? She has proved to me time and time again that she is not about to stop the harassment/stalking. It keeps escalating. She is dangerous. And I haven't kept trying. Yesterday was one time, that was not altogether negative considering his disorder. The evidence I need he has access to and it is very and much more unlikely that anybody else does. What other people can help me with is to provide me with information, but as evidence that would only be circumstantial and not enough to charge her.

Also, how do you get law enforcement to stop online stalking? You say that you haven't had much luck. Have you been told anything about what you can do and how?

Do you know what the applicable law is? Do you know what sort of behavior would justify an order, or what sort of relief/protection can be granted in one?

The police are unwilling to investigate because these offences are still considered difficult to prove. The police have been extremely rude and unhelpful, telling me to block her numbers, change my own number, remove myself from Facebook and other social media, not go where she might be and basically significantly restrict my freedom. That, on the other hand, would show her that her tactics are in fact working. It would also be something that she would be made aware of immediately as she checks what I do online daily.

Online stalking is a grey area but it is not because the law is unclear but because the police have not kept up with this criminal trend in their investigation technique. There are ways to prove the identity of an online stalker such as through IP-numbers, though that has yet been unfruitful in my case. But there are other ways. The police first have to decide it is "worth their while". For now their way of handling my case has been to make me feel bad for even reporting it. And so they want me to change my behaviour. What I have trouble making clear to them and to everybody is that my case is not representative of most cases of online stalking, because of her alter egos, conspiracies etc. She is not just an angry person unloading her anger on me, she is sick.

Also personally, I feel that my right to freely and safely move around in cyper space must be protected as much as my right to freely and safely move around in the physical space.

[Panda39]

If she gets you to contact him ... .through her actions, at some level, her tactics are "working"

I agree, honestly if I were in your shoes I would cut myself off from both of them permanently the combination of the 2 of them are bringing all of this drama into your life and it is dysfunctional.  Think about the Karpman Triangle you are all dancing around it. What would happen if you stopped participating in the dance.  Both of these people are disordered (and I think using you for their own purposes) so they are going to try and boundary bust (get you to engage) and it could continue for a long time, but it is up to you to enforce the boundary.

One thing I've learned here is that we cannot change other people, we can only change ourselves or control our own actions, so if you change your actions and do not engage with either of these people you are changing the whole dynamic. Take yourself out of the triangle let these 2 people play with each other or find another 3rd wheel.

Karpman triangle

The Karpman Triangle, described by Stephen Karpman is a very useful tool for understanding "stuck" relationship dynamics. The roles are Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. We may start in one position, but as another (or others) shift around the triangle, so do we.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

[mitti]

If she gets you to contact him ... .through her actions, at some level, her tactics are "working"

I agree, honestly if I were in your shoes I would cut myself off from both of them permanently the combination of the 2 of them are bringing all of this drama into your life and it is dysfunctional.  Think about the Karpman Triangle you are all dancing around it. What would happen if you stopped participating in the dance.  Both of these people are disordered (and I think using you for their own purposes) so they are going to try and boundary bust (get you to engage) and it could continue for a long time, but it is up to you to enforce the boundary.

One thing I've learned here is that we cannot change other people, we can only change ourselves or control our own actions, so if you change your actions and do not engage with either of these people you are changing the whole dynamic. Take yourself out of the triangle let these 2 people play with each other or find another 3rd wheel.

Thank you, yes I know about The Karpman Triangle.

I think you are jumping to conclusions though about what is going on and why and what the dynamic is. I understand, it is a long thread. Briefly, though it is obviously somewhat more detailed than this... .

It has been going on for two years. She started stalking me 6 months before I even knew she existed. When he wanted back into my sphere it got worse. He came to classes I assisted. She came out where I went which is not where she goes to stare, grin, point at me. She started sending anonymous texts to him trashing him and herself claiming it was a conspiracy against her as a way to direct his attention back to her. At the time we had no idea who sent the messages. He broke up with her. He and I reconciled. He cheated. I ended it and he begged me to take him back. Around the same time the harassment changed and I became the target. She wanted a meeting, accusing me of being the harasser and through the circumstances around this event, I realised she was the perpetrator. I told him and her both to leave me alone and never contact me. The harassment continued. He tried to resume contact. I refused. I did then what you suggest here and regardless of what he did, she did or the harassment I received, I didn't react to either one.

Three months after going NC, it escalated and I received a whole bunch of fake screen shots, conspiracies against my ex, the most disturbing and degrading texts and information about myself but mostly about my ex, and photos of herself and private photos of my ex. I spoke to a professional who works with people with serious mental disorders, who told me I need to take this very seriously and the fact that the harassment not only continues but escalates though I have removed myself is a warning signal that must not be ignored because she is dangerous to me, and to him. I still refused to contact him, but reached out to two of his friends that refused to see that I wasn't just trying to get back with him. In the end I contacted him to show him the material. He told me the harassment against him had continued also but he hadn't got as much as me.

He flips between accepting it is her to believing it could be anybody. She keeps insisting to him and to everybody that it is me. He wanted me back but I was only interested in having the harassment stop. It escalated again with masses and masses of texts and photos. I then spoke to another professional who told me the same thing as the first one and gave me a to-do list. I had an argument with my ex and after that very little and strained contact. The harassment continued. No contact for two months and the harassment escalated yet again a few days ago. All this time she has also smeared me around her and his friends, falsely accused me of things and told people I am the person harassing her, him and myself.

In what way has it helped that I cut myself off from both of them?

It may seem for somebody who isn't living this nightmare that all I have to do is to "remove" myself from the situation and it will stop. But though she has proved that wrong several times, it is not only that it continues it is that it has escalated pretty much regardless of what I do. She reacts to her own hatred of me and to his behaviour around her and around me. As you said, I cannot control their actions. I have one agenda regarding the harassment, to make it stop permanently. I thought it would stop when I disengaged from him, it didn't. I find it extremely frightening that I receive these things from her. I don't look for them. She places them in front of me. They always come as a surprise and leave me feeling shocked. I feel worried about what she will resort to. She is not rational, she has no boundaries, no understanding of consequences, no empathy, is totally fearless and her hatred of me is immense. She is dangerous.

[Grey Kitty]

Mitti, here's my take... .

You are stuck between a rock and a crazy-making place, with a stalker chasing you and wedging you in tighter... .

Rock: Getting law enforcement to help you in this.

Crazy-making place: Getting your ex to help you in this.

It may seem for somebody who isn't living this nightmare that all I have to do is to "remove" myself from the situation and it will stop. But though she has proved that wrong several times, it is not only that it continues it is that it has escalated pretty much regardless of what I do.

I'm not suggesting that all will get better if you "remove" yourself from the situation. Or that it isn't a big deal. I understand both those things. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that your stalker's actions are regardless of what you do. I believe that.

I'm trying to suggest practical, possible solutions for you, where I can see any possible path to toward them... .starting with law enforcement:

The police are unwilling to investigate because these offences are still considered difficult to prove. The police have been extremely rude and unhelpful, telling me to block her numbers, change my own number, remove myself from Facebook and other social media, not go where she might be and basically significantly restrict my freedom. That, on the other hand, would show her that her tactics are in fact working. It would also be something that she would be made aware of immediately as she checks what I do online daily.

Online stalking is a grey area but it is not because the law is unclear but because the police have not kept up with this criminal trend in their investigation technique. There are ways to prove the identity of an online stalker such as through IP-numbers, though that has yet been unfruitful in my case. But there are other ways. The police first have to decide it is "worth their while". For now their way of handling my case has been to make me feel bad for even reporting it. And so they want me to change my behaviour. What I have trouble making clear to them and to everybody is that my case is not representative of most cases of online stalking, because of her alter egos, conspiracies etc. She is not just an angry person unloading her anger on me, she is sick.

Also personally, I feel that my right to freely and safely move around in cyper space must be protected as much as my right to freely and safely move around in the physical space.

The police aren't helping you. I get that, and I'm not surprised. What else can you try with them? Here are a few possibilities:

• Talk to a lawyer and get the lawyer to assist you with the police, or file some other legal proceedings



• Being online, jurisdiction is murkier... .are there other jurisdictions of police you can talk to?



• Put together a different/better package describing the harassment in context of what laws do exist and go back to the police again.

(This got kinda long... .to be continued)

[Grey Kitty]

Continuing with attempted practical solutions, regarding your ex. As you said above, your stalker continues to escalate no matter what you do. I generally agree, but I suspect that it gets worse any time she feels that her relationship with your ex is threatened. Of course that is due to her feelings, which may or may not have anything to do with reality.

I'm starting with a bit of a picture of where you stand with him (and how it relates)

I ended it and he begged me to take him back.

He flips between accepting it is her to believing it could be anybody. She keeps insisting to him and to everybody that it is me. He wanted me back but I was only interested in having the harassment stop.

[... .]

It may seem for somebody who isn't living this nightmare that all I have to do is to "remove" myself from the situation and it will stop. But though she has proved that wrong several times, it is not only that it continues it is that it has escalated pretty much regardless of what I do. She reacts to her own hatred of me and to his behaviour around her and around me. As you said, I cannot control their actions. I have one agenda regarding the harassment, to make it stop permanently. I thought it would stop when I disengaged from him, it didn't.

He never 'returns' in one step. But he clearly indicated that he wants some form of contact but as he is push and pull, and knows it, he himself is trying to navigate his own minefield.

For now his only way of 'protecting himself' against her has been to remove himself from her and go away or be NC. None of his friends understands what she is about. The only person around him that does is me. So I don't expect he will de-program from her mind-control in one day. I represent a lot of what he wants - the dance interest, most of his other interests, the social crowd he wants to hang with, and me. The problem is that he has smeared me so much around his own friends, and he has no way of explaining (without feeling shame and guilt) that what he said about me is no longer valid because he now feels differently towards me. How does a pwBPD "unsmear" their partner/ex-partner? Do they even? My ex's usual strategy is to slowly let people see that we are friends again and then saying he might have judged me too hard or something. But it is a process.

Here's the summary in my words... .please correct me if I'm wrong.

• You and your BPDex broke up in a typically crazy kind of breakup (for one with a pwBPD) with one recycle of sorts.



• Your BPDex wanted to try again / have another recycle with you a while back. It isn't clear if he wants to now or not, but I'm going to guess that he's still kinda enmeshed with you in some way still whatever he wants today.



• In order for him to trust you enough to give you the evidence you want, you are taking the first steps to the next recycle with him. From what you say, you aren't really intending to recycle as a relationship... .but this step would be the same either way, right? As in it would look and feel the same to him.



• BPDex is also enmeshed/connected with stalker. Possibly still in a relationship.



• BPDex doesn't believe that stalker is doing all this. (at least some of the time)

All I can say there is that I see a bunch of outcomes from this, and most of them are ugly.

You asked this question... .

In what way has it helped that I cut myself off from both of them?

It hasn't helped you at ending the stalking at all, and it probably won't. At least not for quite a while, if ever.

I suspect cutting/minimizing contact with them will greatly help your sanity and quality of life in other ways! These two people just sound too messed up!