Now she's angry

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Was dumped by gBPD who is also my coworker. See her everyday (sometimes manufactured by me) and she seems to be extremely angry. No eye contact and look of complete disgust on her face. Not sure if the smearing campaign has started yet, but she has recently before close friends with a few other coworkers and I think that it is just a matter of time. In fact, I kinda believe that these friends are serving as my replacement (not ready to tell myself that there could have been others). In some of the recent conversations before the breakup text, she had already started to talk about how close they had become (actually had a drunken conversation about living together). Spends most evenings have at least glass of wine and Friday nights are spend the new crew drinking, cooking dinner, or going out (to the degree that sometimes she doesnt remember what happened during the evening. Dealing with a range of hurt feelings and really missing those sane and lucid moments when she seemed to be fully present. Read a number of posts and cant believe how similar the stories have been to mine (almost down the exact wording - dont leave me,,,best I have ever had, etc. etc.). Guess I'm really asking for some more support around the display of anger and whether friends can serve as the replacement or be a part of the triangulation process. Please help me

[HurtIII]

Was dumped by gBPD who is also my coworker. See her everyday (sometimes manufactured by me) and she seems to be extremely angry. No eye contact and look of complete disgust on her face. Not sure if the smearing campaign has started yet, but she has recently before close friends with a few other coworkers and I think that it is just a matter of time. In fact, I kinda believe that these friends are serving as my replacement (not ready to tell myself that there could have been others). In some of the recent conversations before the breakup text, she had already started to talk about how close they had become (actually had a drunken conversation about living together). Spends most evenings have at least glass of wine and Friday nights are spend the new crew drinking, cooking dinner, or going out (to the degree that sometimes she doesnt remember what happened during the evening. Dealing with a range of hurt feelings and really missing those sane and lucid moments when she seemed to be fully present. Read a number of posts and cant believe how similar the stories have been to mine (almost down the exact wording - dont leave me,,,best I have ever had, etc. etc.). Guess I'm really asking for some more support around the display of anger and whether friends can serve as the replacement or be a part of the triangulation process. Please help me

[Lonely_Astro]

Was dumped by gBPD who is also my coworker. See her everyday (sometimes manufactured by me) and she seems to be extremely angry. No eye contact and look of complete disgust on her face. Not sure if the smearing campaign has started yet, but she has recently before close friends with a few other coworkers and I think that it is just a matter of time. In fact, I kinda believe that these friends are serving as my replacement (not ready to tell myself that there could have been others). In some of the recent conversations before the breakup text, she had already started to talk about how close they had become (actually had a drunken conversation about living together). Spends most evenings have at least glass of wine and Friday nights are spend the new crew drinking, cooking dinner, or going out (to the degree that sometimes she doesnt remember what happened during the evening. Dealing with a range of hurt feelings and really missing those sane and lucid moments when she seemed to be fully present. Read a number of posts and cant believe how similar the stories have been to mine (almost down the exact wording - dont leave me,,,best I have ever had, etc. etc.). Guess I'm really asking for some more support around the display of anger and whether friends can serve as the replacement or be a part of the triangulation process. Please help me

Being dumped isn't easy.  It's worse when you're dumped by a BPD and they go on like nothing happened.  Is she diagnosed BPD or is it that she just shows traits of? Working with the ex is tough, I know.

The short answer is, yes, friends can serve as a replacement/supply.  They don't factor so much into the triangulation aspect of things, usually, but it is possible, especially if they are used to deliver messages between the two of you.  I experienced that with one of our co-workers that knew we were a thing.  Unfortunately my ex saw this woman as a mom figure and this person disapproved of our r/s (as it was an affair, at the time).  That disapproval was later used by my ex as one reason we couldnt be together (keep in mind this was approximately 10 months after the r/s started, it 'suddenly' was an issue).

There could be a multitude of reasons why she is angry.  It could be that she's projected her anger onto you because she feels guilt/shame for leaving (or some other trespass she did to you) and that leads to anger.  But rather than go through those feelings, it's easier for her to project those feelings onto you and she displays her anger toward you because she 'feels' you're angry with her.  I know that sounds kind of weird, but that's projection at work.  I experienced that with J quite frequently toward the end.

Another explanation could be that you somehow angered her.  This can be brought on by practically anything.  Maybe you didnt smile at her when you should've (in her mind) or you didnt acknowledge her.  I can give you an example.  The last thing J said to me was that she wanted to be my friend, which I said no to.  Ever since, if we see each other at work, she'll snub me.  She gives me that "why are you looking my way" look (which I know all to well).  It's because when she looks at me, she has an emotional reaction (whatever emotion it is... .I don't know) and she doesnt want to feel that, so it's easier to snub me than feel it.  But, what it comes down to is that I rejected her and so Im a bad guy for that.  And in her mind, I did reject her.  She offered to be my friend and I said no... .that's rejection to a pwBPD.  But you see, the reason I couldn't be her friend would be obvious to a non.  How can one be friends with a former lover who abused them, mistreated them, and is in a new r/s?  J didnt want to be my friend for my sake... .no, she wanted me to be hers 'just in case'.

Don't read to much into the anger you see coming from her.  It's not about you, it's about her.  Just like the vast majority of your r/s.  You could've been anyone.  I don't mean this to mean she didnt have feelings for you, she did, right up until the moment she didnt.  That's another thing that takes awhile to grasp and come to terms with.

[HurtIII]

Thanks for that and I'm trying.Broke down a few nights ago and sent the following text message

"Been brewing since I got the text ending things between us. have spent countless hours trying to figure out where I went wrong, what I could have said better, and how I could have been different. But, upon reflection, realized that these things are not my issue. Jumped through a number of hoops trying to prove that I was worthy of your attention, love, and trust. Have spent soo much time evaluating and reevaluating myself to figure out how I wronged you... .or wasnt being true... .and feeling like the reason for the breakup was all my fault. But, have realized, the distortion of my thinking. The story of us has nothing to do with how I communicated, loved, or believed that we had something special. Never lied, cheated, exaagerated, or misled you about my intentions. In fact, believe that you were the chameleon. Fear of being alone, being abandoned, not repeating past mistakes, always kept you on guard. The pulls that brought me closer followed by the pushes to keep me from getting close led to double standards, confusion, and anxiety. This has been all about your emotions. Our "fights" have been stupid and have had nothing to do with us or where we are. You get upset first and then try to explain why"

Her response was I seemed like I was pretty good at playing victim and that all I had done was manipulate and misled her throughout the entire relationship. Also added that I was not to be trusted and that I was a liar.

[Lonely_Astro]

Thanks for that and I'm trying.Broke down a few nights ago and sent the following text message

"Been brewing since I got the text ending things between us. have spent countless hours trying to figure out where I went wrong, what I could have said better, and how I could have been different. But, upon reflection, realized that these things are not my issue. Jumped through a number of hoops trying to prove that I was worthy of your attention, love, and trust. Have spent soo much time evaluating and reevaluating myself to figure out how I wronged you... .or wasnt being true... .and feeling like the reason for the breakup was all my fault. But, have realized, the distortion of my thinking. The story of us has nothing to do with how I communicated, loved, or believed that we had something special. Never lied, cheated, exaagerated, or misled you about my intentions. In fact, believe that you were the chameleon. Fear of being alone, being abandoned, not repeating past mistakes, always kept you on guard. The pulls that brought me closer followed by the pushes to keep me from getting close led to double standards, confusion, and anxiety. This has been all about your emotions. Our "fights" have been stupid and have had nothing to do with us or where we are. You get upset first and then try to explain why"

Her response was I seemed like I was pretty good at playing victim and that all I had done was manipulate and misled her throughout the entire relationship. Also added that I was not to be trusted and that I was a liar.

That's a pretty typical response from a pwBPD.  They'll never take true responsibility for their behavior.  They'll project all their issues onto you to make you the 'bad' one.  This prevents them from feeling shame/guilt for what they've done to you.  It's all part of it, Hurt.  As hard as this is right now, try not to take it personal.  It's not about you, it's about them.

You know the truth, you know what happened.  BPDs are constantly rewriting themselves and their history to fit THEIR narratives.  They can't cast themselves as the villain, so they'll write someone in as it.  While I'm sure you weren't perfect, none of us are, she expected you to be.  You can't help that.  Since you weren't, she devalued you and threw you away to find a new 'hero' of the story.  Don't worry, that hero will become a villain in time. 

I know it's tough. It's hard to not believe what they're telling you, but I highly doubt what she's saying is true.  I've been there, done that.  I know the truth and how I treated my ex.  She said some of the same stuff, when it was her doing those things, not me.  So believe me when I say this isn't about you, it's about her. 

Keep healing, keep detaching, and stay focused on being out of Oz.

[HurtIII]

Really appreciate the response... .just still cant believe how she really believes that I misled and manipulated her. And has the audacity to act like this was of my doing?

[Lonely_Astro]

Really appreciate the response... .just still cant believe how she really believes that I misled and manipulated her. And has the audacity to act like this was of my doing?

It's not about her right now.  Being here is about you.  She believes those things about you because she HAS to.  It's a survival instinct that is embedded into her psyche.  Nothing you could've said or done would've changed that.  In order to survive, you had to become the villain.  That's how they survive because they CANNOT take responsibility.  It all comes back to their lack of a solid 'self'. 

It's hurtful to us (the Non) when they turn on us.  Mark my words, they all turn on you.  Sometimes it's faster, sometimes slower, but they all turn.  They can't sustain a long term relationship.  There's many factors that influence how fast that happens, but the end is the same.  Their 'hero' becomes their 'villain'.

Right now, there is nothing you can say to her.  She's not going to suddenly "see the light".  She can't.  The r/s has ruptured and there's no return.  If you did, the cycle would repeat, but it would be shorter.  Recycles typically are shorter each time.

I know you can't see it right now, but she's done you a favor by exiting.  With time and distance, as the FOG lifts, you'll see this too.

Keep healing. 

[HurtIII]

Im a work in progress, but its really hard. Actually included in one of her messages that she knew i was the issue since doesnt respond this way to other people in her life (assuming that she means friends).

[Lonely_Astro]

Im a work in progress, but its really hard. Actually included in one of her messages that she knew i was the issue since doesnt respond this way to other people in her life (assuming that she means friends).

That's probably half true.  You're closer to her than her 'friends', therefore you're more likely to be perceived as the problem because of that.  Twisted logic, but true.

[HurtIII]

Well, actually talked her into meeting over this weekend... .had a nice time, but ended up in another argument where she basically told me to move on. Pressed her a number of inconsistencies and flawed thinking. She actually agreed and then added that I shouldnt want to be with someone like that and we should never be together. Asked that she respond to my questions based on the same standard and bode of evidence that she demands from me. "If you know what your issues are, what is your plan to change/work on them?" "What is the proof that you are trying to improve?" She simply replied "I don't know". Why do I continue to give her this power over me and my emotions? Am I really the crazy one?

[WoundedBibi]

Wow... a pwBPD admitting all that... Not that it makes a big difference; she doesn't know what to do and might or might not do something about her issues in future.

Back to you. No, you're not crazy.

But I have to ask: why did you want to meet up with her? What was the purpose of meeting her? Did you get what you wanted out of it? Has her hold on you become less big, bigger, the same after the meeting? Was her admitting she has issues enough for you to move on? Or are you hoping you will be recycled by her?

[HurtIII]

At the end of the day, I just needed a fix. Thought after I read soo much of the information on this site that I was better equipped to have a meaningful conversation. Thought that i understood her more and that I would be able to recognize when things were about to go bad and counteract them. First part of our convo went ok, but then the I dont trust you convos started. What i didnt do, what needs I didnt meet, the separate life I seemed to have, why hadnt she met/hung out with my children/family, the list was endless. And at the end of the day, I ended up storming out. Then received a message an hour later that said "thought you said you would never leave me". What the heck?

[WoundedBibi]

Good insight in why you wanted a meeting I think.

Breath... let it go... This conversation was just another experience.

You now know you cannot control the conversation regardless of how much you have learned about BPD. No matter how much you learn, you cannot control her thoughts, feelings, opinions or what she says or how she behaves towards you.

[HurtIII]

Im learning... .but it is just soo shocking that I have been painted black, discarded, and know the swear campaign has started with other coworkers. As an adult, dont have an issue with taking responsibility for my actions, but cant stand the fact that she is misrepresenting me to others for self gain. Feel really stupid and angry. Believe that she has completely moved on and has created a circle of enablers to support her in her grief and not challenge anything about her.

[HurtIII]

Any advice?

[WoundedBibi]

Not from me I'm afraid    I'm in an almost identical boat. Painted black, smear campaign, and lots of enabling minions around him. He doesn't work there anymore, but his minions (who I suspect he sees on a very regular basis) do. And I have no clue what to do about it. Tried to speak to the most reasonable minion in a very subtle way. Failed. Total denial. Tried to ignore it all. Failed. I just couldn't. Tried to speak to ex. Failed. Retaliation. Tried to ignore ex. Failed. Got angry at me for ignoring him. I'm just hoping that it will die down soon and they have someone or something more interesting to talk about.

[HurtIII]

Thanks for your response... .Do you ever have the idea that his life will be better than yours? And that he really isn't suffering since he believes that you were the one with the problem?

[HurtIII]

And to make matters worse, we had to keep relationship secret since we work together. She told a few close colleagues, but I haven't shared this with anyone. So, now I also have to hear other male colleagues in office talk about how gorgeous she is... .how charismatic she is... .how she commands a presence... .Etc etc etc

[WoundedBibi]

My ex was fired/dismissed from every job he ever had (I now know). He currently has no job. He is in debt. He misses his own country. He gets utterly drunk (as in can't stand anymore or the staff refuse to serve him any longer) 6 nights out of 7 if not 7 out of 7. He uses pot, coke, mushrooms and god knows what else. He cannot sexually perform. He is often depressed and angry. He is bitter about every relationship he ever had. Every relationship has failed miserably and as far as I know he's not on speaking terms with any ex.

Of course he seems to have fun at pubs, clubs etc and he has people falling for his charms left right and center. He looks gorgeous although the looks are slightly fading now. He is ridiculously smart and has 2 degrees, one from an important business school.

All in all he is obviously utterly unhappy. Do I think his life is better than mine? Hell no! More exciting? Yes.

[once removed]

you might find this useful in terms of dealing with a smear campaign: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

[HurtIII]

Great article... .Have already read it twice. Here's the crazy part... .both me and my now ex are both therapists and I still didn't see this coming. Been thinking through soo many conversations and situations where I accepted all of the blame and then tried to go more. Has anyone ever called a liar because there are was a belief that stories changed or that things were apparently ommited?

[once removed]

Thanks for that and I'm trying.Broke down a few nights ago and sent the following text message

"Been brewing since I got the text ending things between us. have spent countless hours trying to figure out where I went wrong, what I could have said better, and how I could have been different. But, upon reflection, realized that these things are not my issue. Jumped through a number of hoops trying to prove that I was worthy of your attention, love, and trust. Have spent soo much time evaluating and reevaluating myself to figure out how I wronged you... .or wasnt being true... .and feeling like the reason for the breakup was all my fault. But, have realized, the distortion of my thinking. The story of us has nothing to do with how I communicated, loved, or believed that we had something special. Never lied, cheated, exaagerated, or misled you about my intentions. In fact, believe that you were the chameleon. Fear of being alone, being abandoned, not repeating past mistakes, always kept you on guard. The pulls that brought me closer followed by the pushes to keep me from getting close led to double standards, confusion, and anxiety. This has been all about your emotions. Our "fights" have been stupid and have had nothing to do with us or where we are. You get upset first and then try to explain why"

Her response was I seemed like I was pretty good at playing victim and that all I had done was manipulate and misled her throughout the entire relationship. Also added that I was not to be trusted and that I was a liar.

Well, actually talked her into meeting over this weekend... .had a nice time, but ended up in another argument where she basically told me to move on. Pressed her a number of inconsistencies and flawed thinking. She actually agreed and then added that I shouldnt want to be with someone like that and we should never be together. Asked that she respond to my questions based on the same standard and bode of evidence that she demands from me. "If you know what your issues are, what is your plan to change/work on them?" "What is the proof that you are trying to improve?" She simply replied "I don't know". Why do I continue to give her this power over me and my emotions? Am I really the crazy one?

HurtIII, i understand youre in a lot of pain. i think this approach is backing her into a corner a bit. she has been fairly straight forward with you, and youre pressing her. thats not going to soothe your pain. have you considered allowing some time and space between the two of you?

[HurtIII]

I can see your point... .guess it was just an attempt to level the playing field a little. Spent an excessive amount of time being blamed, responding to countless interrogations, and always feeling like I'm the one that wasn't good enough. Wanted her to see what it felt like and how hurtful, demeaning, and minimizing it is. Was never the enemy, but she could always recite with complete clarity where my story changed, where i had somehow discounted something she said, or where I had wronged her.

[WoundedBibi]

Onceremoved, I've re-read the article but I'm really struggling with it. With finding a way out. The triangulation never happened till after we broke up, I never exchanged a word with the 3rd party till she reached out to me after a few months ("almost weekend" "yeah, nice isn't it", and I tried to walk around with a poker-face not giving him a reaction to any slight. Which he hated and might have triggered him, but I did not want to be in this triangle, nor feed it. Inside I still felt in total terror panic mode.

I think I might dedicate a separate post to it in a few days, it's really complicated and I need to find some strategy before I go back to work.

[HurtIII]

Haven't it happen and you knowing abouting it are two different things. Always had a sense she was triangulating with someone since her rationales seemed to be rehearesed and not her own. There was something off bout she defended her argument... .anyway, I think I'm getting angry thinking that something that meant everything to me really meant nothing to her

[WoundedBibi]

You have every right to be angry. IMO it doesn't mean nothing to them though. They just can't handle their own emotions let alone someone else's. And in a relationship you have to deal with both.

[HurtIII]

This is day 4 of NC and I'm still checking phone, wondering what she's doing and trying to cope with these feelings. Keep telling myself that she was never the person that she presented. Used all of our talks to create my ideal mate. Having a hard time beleiving that it wasn't intentional and it is just the way she learned to deal with things. Feeling stupid, on top of angry, that I didn't see this. Recently asked me to be a reference for her for a new job. I agreed, but then I keep thinking... .With all of the distrust she has for me, why would you believe that I would be a good reference?

[WoundedBibi]

Of course you're thinking about her, it's only day 4... Don't best yourself up about that. If you're an alcoholic nobody would look strangely at you if you said "I quit drinking. It's day 4. I still want a drink"...

Try to get your thoughts away from her though whenever you can. Our obsessing isn't healthy behaviour.

I've been thinking about your "having the triangulation happen & you knowing about it are two different things" and you're right. The triangulation started early on. The smearcampaign didn't though. That wasn't until I pointed out behaviour that was hurtful for me. It might have been the guilt about that that made him lash out. The enabler/accomplice that was in the triangle was the main force in the smearcampaigne. And I need to find a way to handle that instead of turning into a trembling 6 year old.

We are not all knowing. Not seeing it doesn't mean you're stupid. It's not like the negative BPD behaviour was played out in front of you in full force from day 1.

I do see myself as stupid; I totally forgot about the uBPD cousin I had gone NC with years ago. I've hadn't I might have seen. I totally didn't make the connection between the guy before my ex (not a real ex, just someone I had been in love with and I was emotionally close to) who turned into a vindictive fullblown maniac and my ex. And there were 2 months between getting the maniac out of my life and being groomed by my ex. I must have selective amnesia... Like I don't WANT to know. As if I (perhaps all of us... ) prefer living in OZ where life is simple and people are good.

[HurtIII]

I hear you... .Its just the fantasy of it all. Really believed that she was the one and for once I had someone that forever was possible with. That's the part that hurts the most. Didnt believe that I had self esteem issues, thought of myself as a pretty rational and good guy. Always wanted to find a way to understand each other, work together, and become stronger as a couple. Wanted to take on the world with her... .felt completely overwhelmed that I had found what others spend a lifetime searching for.  Took pride in the fact that we were together and we seemed to be soo in touch with one another. We had a secret club, a mysterious and deep bind, a connection that surpassed anything and would overcome everything. Committed to making it work and growing old together. And now, I'm sitting on my couch alone, not knowing or understanding what happened. Just that its all gone

[WoundedBibi]

That's exactly it, it was a fantasy. No one is perfect.

The thing is (IMO) and I've written it somewhere else but I can't find the post anymore, NONs and BPDs are very similar in what they want. That one person that you feel connected to on a very deep level. That mirror image of yourself, the soulmate, the one that will hear you, understand you, love you.

That's what we see in them, and they in us. But we like to stay in that warm blanket of love and they become uncomfortable very soon. Afraid to be engulfed.

And when we see something in the BPD that isn't perfect, we think "nobody is, I can compromise, it's ok" or make excuses if the imperfection is a bad one. They become disillusioned. They think "I thought you were perfect. You're not. You conned me in thinking you were. You tricked me. You liar... .". We've burst their bubble and they become enraged and lash out. The anger a lot of us feel after the relationship ends is the same they feel in it.

We tend to go inwards "what did I do wrong? What could I have done differently?". They tend to go outward "you did something wrong! You ARE wrong! You're just like any other cardboard cut out person out there. Hurting me like that, making me think you were the one... I will hurt you back... "

[HurtIII]

That's what happened for the most part. Guess I'm still trying to make something irrational rational. Even when we  would have our debates but what I had done to demonstrate my love, she would simply say "that was yesterday. What have you done today?" The countless validation was insane. And she admitted it! Bit in those times when she needed to remember that and regulate feelings, she never could and the fight would start again. One of her last messages was that she was tired of arguing bout bull___ that would never change. But never offered any recommendation bout how that could happen. That was my job.