"I really enjoyed seeing you last night"

[unicorn2014]

In an attempt to get help for all the problem areas in my relationship I want to call your attention to another common issue: repetition.

My SO gave me one of his old laptops because mine died and I couldn't afford to replace it. Unfortunately his laptop had way too many files on it so it stopped being functional as well. Last night he did a remote erase over FaceTime in case there were any problems. There were problems which we're going to have to deal with today, I'm going to have to reinstall the system software.

I called him this morning to set up time to reinstall the system software and as predicted he told me he really enjoyed seeing me last night. Well, this would've been fine except for the fact that it followed up on me telling him that working on the computer last night threw me off my schedules and I got a bad night's sleep. He outright contradicted me and said he thought it was a good idea and then went on to tell me he enjoyed seeing me last night. I lied and said I enjoyed seeing him too even though I had just told him working on the computer last night so close to bedtime was not a good idea. Then to make matters worse he repeated himself which left me no choice but to say "I know you already said that."

Now usually this would create an argument but I ended the phone call shortly after that however now I feel irritated that I realized what he did. I'm going to let it go because correcting him isn't going to accomplish anything but I want to be more sensitive to the next time he invalidates me. I also know pointing that out to him isn't going to do any good but I can end the conversation the next time he subtly and charmingly invalidates me.

Do you have any observations on this anecdote or suggestions to help me?

PLease let me know if what I said made sense.

[Skip]

Does this sum it up: You find your married bf/fiance' to be annoying because he said it was nice to see you while he was helping you fix the free computer he gave you.

Unicorn, I pop into your threads every few weeks and I can see a steady erosion in the way you treat your married bf/fiance' - you treat him with a great deal of contempt.

Downward Cycle

• He is not been forthcoming or honest regarding his marriage or getting a divorce



• You have huge and growing resentments which you deal with by treating him in an uncaring way (he tries t pacify you with secondary thing and that give you some satisfaction and relief to reject them)



• He has growing resentments and these will likely come your way in full force when you are at a vulnerable point.

The two of you deep into a relationship death cycle.  Experts like John Gottman would say that you are in "Stage Four", the final stages of relationship destruction/death.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

I was encouraging you (and him), when you moved to Stage Two to be very careful, this your relationship was headed for ruin.

My personal advice is to not get caught up in this day to day Stage Four drama anymore. You are simply walking the plank - the relationship is a timebomb - it might go off on you and devastate you when it does.

You've gotten a lot of advice on how to move back to Stage Three and even Stage Two and you have rejected it all. This is not a criticism, just an observation that you're expression of your resentment is far more clear than any efforts to salvage the relationship.  Maybe its a helplessness response because you know he will not do his part to salvage the relationship.  Maybe its your emotions driving you.  Either way, the reality is that this relationship is "walking dead" (walking the plank) and a potential time bomb that could hurt you.

Is there any point in continuing?  Is there any point in doing more of what has gotten the two of you have been doing to get to this very low point?

[love4meNOTu]

Unicorn -

I have wanted to reply on many of your threads but didn't think I would be able to add anything of value to you. I have read all of your posts and I see your reasoning as to why you stay in the relationship, but I guess that's what I'm getting at... .

You can reason these things to death, analysis paralysis if you will.

But are you happy with him? On a day to day basis? Do you have even moments of happiness that help get you through the day, and makes you want to continue the relationship?

That's the place I had to get to emotionally before I could make a decision on whether to stay or to go, the rule of thumb I've learned was when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving... what choice do you have?

Best to you,

L

[Notwendy]

Your SO shared how he felt- he enjoyed seeing you.

It is important to have a boundary between what is his and what is yours. His feelings are his, yours are yours. If he is happy to see you, then he is. This isn't a statement about your feelings.

Your schedule is your responsibility. If you are not available to stay up at night, then you can say ( nicely) "I am really tired and need to sleep, can we talk another time? "  It isn't his fault that you didn't sleep.

There are no two people on the planet that are going to share the exact same points of view. Our challenge is to hold on to ours while allowing others to have their. If we avoid conflict by constantly acquiescing our point of view, then that can be problematic, but so is too much arguing over differences. Your SO is who he is, he likes what he likes and he feels what he feels. I think it is significant that you don't like it. You have that right. However, at this point, if so much of what he thinks and says, and does, disagrees with you, you do have to question the point of continuing the relationship, if the two of you are frequently hurting each other's feelings.

From where I see it, he gave you a laptop, he helped you fix it, and he says he enjoyed seeing you. It is you who didn't enjoy this experience. You have every right to feel what you feel, but if you are not enjoying his company and it is an inconvenience to you, then this is something to consider.

[unicorn2014]

Skip, I was writing this to ask for help. I'll read your links. I was saying if I could catch my SO invalidating me before he repeats himself maybe we can avoid an awkward moment. The spirit in which I wrote this was asking for help since he and I are getting along and I don't want to contribute to the problem.

[unicorn2014]

Love, I have decided to stay but am conflicted because my SO still has not given me a case number for his divorce. Once I get that I will move over to the staying board. I personally can't commit to a relationship with a married man, even if he's separated.

[unicorn2014]

Not Wendy, I enjoy his company but not after 8pm at night when I'm trying to wind down. He actually suggested we could work on this tomorrow. We used to have this routine of face timing while I was cooking dinner and I stopped that because it was too distracting. To be honest it is too distracting to FaceTime him when my daughter is home. I FaceTimed him this morning to continue working on restoring the computer he gave me and it was fine.

I think the problem started last night, and it was even my idea to FaceTime to solve this computer problem. Yesterday all the apps started failing: mail, Firefox and safari and so I finally asked for help.

He enjoys face timing me at night but I find it overstimulating. I know that is not his fault, that is my wiring. I also know it's up to me to hold my own boundaries. I do enjoy his company just not when I'd rather be taking a bath and watching house. Since discontinuing FaceTime with him during the evening I created my own bedtime ritual which works much better for me and last night I was off my game.

Does this make any sense?

[Daniell85]

You can simply and effectively manage the computer issue being fixed, vs it being so close to your bedtime, by asking to schedule time for the repairs at a more amenable time to you.

He enjoyed his time with you, he helped you ( a man fixes and helps his loved ones and you are his loved one).

I am curious, what is your take on the possibility that you may have an anxiety disorder that is fueling your upsets. Have you looked at this? I know when I am very anxious I can't sleep, and I worry at every tiny little indication of something wrong or I get triggered a ton. Do you think maybe treating a possible anxiety situation would be helpful to your capacity to handle the day to day stress of your relationship?

[Notwendy]

Carrying on a relationship with you while married was not a good thing to do. It is understandable that you don't want to be in a romantic relationship with a married man and that you are angry with him for this.

However you are choosing to remain in contact with him. This is a relationship. We are in relationships with many people in our lives. A relationship does not have to be romantic to be in conflict and drama.

Consider the conflict and drama in this relationship. The future and what your status will be is unknown. But in the present- conflict and drama in a relationship are a source of emotional pain. Regardless of the status of the relationship- he is a human being- so are you. Is this enough to consider what is going on between you?

[unicorn2014]

Daniell85, I thought I disclosed I have a diagnosis of PTSD? I think that the very nature of being in an intimate relationship is probably triggering to me since I was diagnosed with PTSD after my divorce. Couple that with the fact that my d15 was home and I am still dealing with the consequences of what happened to her last weekend. That is why my bedtime routine is so important to me. I take medication to help me sleep and I still woke up last night after midnight due to a flashback of my d15 running away. Part of my problem is my parenting issues dovetail with my conflicted issues. Last night I had to go in my d15 room and put my hand on her bed to make sure she was in it. I haven't really gone too much into either my own mental health issues or my parenting issues on the conflicted board.

I've had about a decade of therapy to treat my PTSD and am taking medication to treat it.

[unicorn2014]

Not Wendy, I'm not really angry with him right now, what I am is having a hard time standing up for myself. I know he enjoys seeing me at night but face timing with him while my d15 is home is too overstimulating to me. I realize that now. I appreciate what you are saying about human relationships. That is why I am bringing my little problems here, to help me deal with them before they become big problems.

I suppose I am mad at myself for not respecting my own limits. I knew better then to FaceTime at night to try to fix the computer. He also gave me an iPad and a remote keyboard which is why I am able to type this message. Last night I had to use my d15 laptop to send email related to her school.

Him erasing his computer remotely probably made me nervous and like he said he knew it probably needed to wait till tomorrow to solve. He is a coder by profession , among other things, so this kind of stuff is comfortable to him. For me it's way outside my comfort zone.

[Turkish]

Speaking as a guy, and leaving all else aside (the r/s status, history, and PD behaviors), if I were helping my SO or good friend fix something and they responded like that, I'd feel resentful and angry. I'd also maybe even wonder why I bothered.

I would volunteer that it's your decision/boundary whether or not to stay up late and struggle with unruly technology.

[unicorn2014]

Turkish, since I've never restored a MacBook Pro before I had no idea what I was getting into. I was able to talk to him about the fact that it was my responsibility to see that I sign off at 8pm and he admitted he was driven to get things done and if I didn't speak up I wouldn't get my needs met. He has a much stronger personality then me, after all that is what BPD is, a personality that doesn't fit in the culture, so we resolved that problem. He is much more forthright about getting his needs met then I am. He is an alpha male, small business owner, musician, etc, so he is used to being forthright and getting things done.

I think we resolved this issue, and I will continue to bring issues like this to the board so we don't get in further conflicts.

[Notwendy]

What do you think your SO is getting out of this relationship? How do you think it feels from his perspective?

[unicorn2014]

I am the love of his life, he's in love with me, he wants to marry me, I am it. Those are all the things he tells me, all the time.

[unicorn2014]

Also, I know it's hard for him to see me struggle and not be able to help me.

[Daniell85]

I remember about the PTSD. I wondered if the anxiety needed more management while you are under so much stress.

[unicorn2014]

There's not much more I can do, nevertheless I am meeting with my daughter's psychologist tomorrow to discuss some "co-parenting" (he's not capable of it) concerns regarding my ex. I wish we had a parallel parenting board for those who have split from narcissistic partners.

///

I'm trying to keep the two relationships and their issues separate.

[formflier]

 

Unicorn,

Do you want to take steps to move back to stage 3 or do you want to continue on the path you are on?

FF

[unicorn2014]

FF everything is fine. It was a problem caused by me not asserting myself. He made a point to log off by 8 tonight. We're still installing the operating system and will work on it again tomorrow.  Ill let you know when the next problem crops up. Bpd is defined by having a stronger personality then the cultural norm. He's not unaware of his problem. He's willing to tone it down .

[unicorn2014]

Skip and FF I will also say my first husband was a HCP and that marriage did break down. My married fiancé is committed to working on the relationship. My former T did some couples counseling with us and he did teach us about the 4 horsemen. I did do further research into the gottman institute .

My SO also bought us both copies of the high conflict couple and it was so triggering to me because of my first marriage that I gave my copy to my first husband and my married fiancé gave his copy away. I'm going to try reading it again: I'm picking it up from the library tomorrow. My fiancé has accused me of putting my ex and my mother on him. That may be true it may not. Nevertheless I suppose I could say I am committed to making the relationship better however I'm still conflicted about him being married. That would be a core value difference however I do believe he is working with a divorce attorney. I have stopped asking him about his attorney .

[Notwendy]

My fiancé has accused me of putting my ex and my mother on him. That may be true it may not. Nevertheless I suppose I could say I am committed to making the relationship better however I'm still conflicted about him being married.


Consider that I think we do filter our relationships through issues we have had or have with others in our pasts.

When we are triggered- these are our triggers- the other person is not necessarily doing something to us. Being triggered isn't a signal to look at the other person's faults, or react to them, but a signal to work on something going on with us.

Resentments, anger, personal conflicts- are trigger points. It is good that you have recognized that you are not comfortable with him still being legally married, yet at this point the two of you are still communicating with each other.

If you are triggered when speaking to him, you don't have to react. You can take note that you are being triggered and then consider it later. From some of the interactions that you have posted, I wonder if some of this is a difference in communication style. If he is more outgoing, then statements like " I enjoyed seeing you last night" may come easily for him. If you think about this statement, it really is a statement of appreciation- something said to a partner, but could also be to a friend, or family member. " I like your company, I like to see you". It isn't a bad thing to say. However, it did bother you, and that is an opportunity to examine why.

[formflier]

FF everything is fine. 

Words mean things, they reflect what is going on inside us.

A quote from you saying "everything is fine" in the same thread where your relationship is identified as being in Stage 4 (the last stage before the nuke cloud goes off) is deeply troubling.

The contempt you show your SO comes from inside of you.  That is something you can attempt to control.  Nobody "makes us" do, say, or feel anything.

Many people have offered warnings and given exhortations for YOU to change the way you treat your SO.  That YOU are the one with your hands on the wheel of the r/s and you are steering the r/s "towards the wrong way".  Remember the video, ?

I'm deeply saddened at the direction that YOU are taking the r/s. 

I would hope you can take time to discuss the core issues in your r/s and avoid discussing minutiae of operating systems, bedtimes and facetime. 

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Do you have any observations on this anecdote or suggestions to help me?

Step away until you can approach SO with your resentments dealt with. (This could take months or longer)

Then approach him from a place of love and compassion.

The issue that keeps coming up is your anger about his feelings and behavior towards you.

What are you doing to address your resentment?

You seem to think 'a better response' is the problem.  I do not think anyone here thinks that if you only responded better, then your issues would resolve.  There is no 'response' that could make drinking poison less toxic.  Serve it in a glass cup? No. Serve it in a bowl? No

[Verbena]

I've followed your posts for awhile now.  These are a few elements that jump out at me as big red flags:

"married fiance" 

constant conflict over refusal to get divorced

long-distance relationship that is full of drama with much of it sounding like jr. high games

I don't understand the point of this relationship. 

[Verbena]

You have also said "he will never move in with me and my daughter."  This is another thing I don't understand.  If he's your "married fiance" that you don't intend to ever marry, assuming he ever gets a divorce, then what is your goal?  I'm just really confused. 

[unicorn2014]

My fiancé has accused me of putting my ex and my mother on him. That may be true it may not. Nevertheless I suppose I could say I am committed to making the relationship better however I'm still conflicted about him being married.


Consider that I think we do filter our relationships through issues we have had or have with others in our pasts.

When we are triggered- these are our triggers- the other person is not necessarily doing something to us. Being triggered isn't a signal to look at the other person's faults, or react to them, but a signal to work on something going on with us.

Resentments, anger, personal conflicts- are trigger points. It is good that you have recognized that you are not comfortable with him still being legally married, yet at this point the two of you are still communicating with each other.

If you are triggered when speaking to him, you don't have to react. You can take note that you are being triggered and then consider it later. From some of the interactions that you have posted, I wonder if some of this is a difference in communication style. If he is more outgoing, then statements like " I enjoyed seeing you last night" may come easily for him. If you think about this statement, it really is a statement of appreciation- something said to a partner, but could also be to a friend, or family member. " I like your company, I like to see you". It isn't a bad thing to say. However, it did bother you, and that is an opportunity to examine why.

Hi Not Wendy, its funny you should mention he is more outgoing then me, he claims he is 100% introverted and he doesn't have a need to interact with people, but he cares what I think. I think the reason it bothers me is he claims that I'm the only person he's ever felt that way about. At this point it still feels like he's trying to give himself to me as a way of trying to get away from his wife, which would be fine after I got a case number. I don't blame him for her holding up the divorce however I wish he could restrain himself until then. He something said very funny to me the other day, he said the woman he is in love with (me) is withholding her affection because of his marital status.

[unicorn2014]

FF everything is fine. 

Words mean things... .they reflect what is going on inside us.

A quote from you saying "everything is fine" in the same thread where your relationship is identified as being in Stage 4 (the last stage before the nuke cloud goes off) is deeply troubling.

The contempt you show your SO comes from inside of you.  That is something you can attempt to control.  Nobody "makes us" do, say, or feel anything.

Many people have offered warnings and given exhortations for YOU to change the way you treat your SO.  That YOU are the one with your hands on the wheel of the r/s and you are steering the r/s "towards the wrong way".  Remember the video... .?

I'm deeply saddened at the direction that YOU are taking the r/s. 

I would hope you can take time to discuss the core issues in your r/s and avoid discussing minutiae of operating systems, bedtimes and facetime. 

FF

FF everything is fine means everything is fine, the relationship is fine, my SO is fine. Bedtime is a core issue with pwBPD.

[unicorn2014]

You have also said "he will never move in with me and my daughter."  This is another thing I don't understand.  If he's your "married fiance" that you don't intend to ever marry, assuming he ever gets a divorce, then what is your goal?  I'm just really confused. 

He not moving in with my daughter and I in our 2BDR does not mean we are not getting married. I never said I didn't intend to marry him. My goals? To not fight with him. That's my goal, as well as to assert myself and take care of myself. My goal is to wait for him to get a divorce and relocate. He's trying to divorce. Its not his fault there are complications.

[unicorn2014]

Do you have any observations on this anecdote or suggestions to help me?

Step away until you can approach SO with your resentments dealt with. (This could take months or longer)

Then approach him from a place of love and compassion.

The issue that keeps coming up is your anger about his feelings and behavior towards you.

What are you doing to address your resentment?

You seem to think 'a better response' is the problem.  I do not think anyone here thinks that if you only responded better, then your issues would resolve.  There is no 'response' that could make drinking poison less toxic.  Serve it in a glass cup? No. Serve it in a bowl? No

I agree I have a resentment to get over, that of him initiating a relationship with me while he was still married and then not following through on his divorce until I put my foot down. That's true. However that's not what this topic was about. It was about me not asserting myself about needing to say good night to him at 8pm and I solved that problem.